View Full Version : New $495 Trigger
Anyone have any insight on how this works and stays legal? Someone on the other board spoke with someone at the company and was told the price was $495.
http://tacfirecon.com/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eQtCTUq4Y_I
SpankMonkey
11-13-13, 20:16
They are smoking something.
Looks like he's pulling the trigger each time it fires. Don't know why they show him switching it to "AUTO". Looks like it functions like a standard semi-auto trigger to me.
ETA: Looks like maybe it is firing a second round upon release? If so, that is just re-tarded.
3rd Mode Has a Positive Reset Characteristic
It has a harder reset with a lighter trigger that would let you "sweet spot" the trigger. Similar to the idea behind the "response trigger" on a Tippmann paintball gun.
Wonder what the BATFE thinks.
Almost looks like it fires when the trigger is pressed and fires again when it's released...
ScatmanCrothers
11-13-13, 20:21
Looks like he's pulling the trigger each time it fires. Don't know why they show him switching it to "AUTO". Looks like it functions like a standard semi-auto trigger to me.
Evidently some are saying that the trigger actually forces your finger forward after the shot, and if you keep tension on it then it would function "automatically" once it reached the reset. I don't know if this is accurate, just the only semi-logical explanation I've seen.
mastiffhound
11-13-13, 20:45
What does it really offer? No (or a super miniscule) amount of take up and something like a 1 gram trigger pull on their "3rd" mode? I see this as scary, I've heard of people dicking with triggers and getting run away AR's. Or the other end being a single shot AR because the trigger won't reset. I can't imagine that this will go over well here but I could be wrong. With the price of ammo I can't see buying it myself. Maybe for a dedicated .22lr AR and if that $495 wasn't allocated towards ammo and range time? That is if I could also find any .22lr locally.
They don't really give any number for "3rd" mode but semi is 4.5 lbs. It seems like a risk for too many reasons. I don't think I would like to be the guinea pig to spend $500(don't forget shipping fellas) when well known and very rigorously tested options that cost half as much or less exist.
Evidently some are saying that the trigger actually forces your finger forward after the shot, and if you keep tension on it then it would function "automatically" once it reached the reset. I don't know if this is accurate, just the only semi-logical explanation I've seen.
The above explanation works, but it strikes me as really off that this would be an approved function. An auto reset that allows you to simply ride the trigger seems super questionable.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk (http://tapatalk.com/m?id=1)
Bump-fire trigger?
This.
Why is everyone making such a big deal about it? It's not like it's even close to FA ROF.
PS: he's not switching it to AUTO; he's switching it to the 3rd mode which allows bump-firing.
ClearedHot
11-13-13, 21:10
I think I'll pass on this. Another crutch product that tries to replace software with hardware.
You can see some kind of lever on the rear of the trigger where it goes under the selector to "change modes". I don't think I would equate this to a bumpfire trigger, maybe one where the reset spring is stronger than the trigger spring. I wouldn't mind having one on a range/fun gun but not even at $300 for that matter.
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/4481604/forum-pics/TacCon-3MR-Trigger.jpg
SilverBullet432
11-13-13, 21:36
Slide fires are $300 , im guessing this system looks less stupid? (Since you cant see it?) 'cause slide fires are butt ugly :lol:
leadfarminokie
11-13-13, 22:58
Just think if we spent all the cash used getting around NFA BS and used it to elect the right people that could change the law to eliminate the BS altogether.
If I had the extra change I might pick one up to see what it's all about.
Sounds fun for a .22 upper!
Ya know, Koshinn, I really like that idea!
PatrioticDisorder
11-14-13, 00:04
My interest is peaked, but I wouldn't pay that much for it. Now if Geissele made a similar trigger I might sing a different tune considering the reliability and durability should be GTG.
Almost looks like it fires when the trigger is pressed and fires again when it's released...
that is what it looks like to me.
very interesting. i would like to see how this plays out
TacticalSledgehammer
11-14-13, 06:29
I don't think it's worth $495. It does look fun though.
It is certainly an interesting product. If the first stage is comparable in feel to a Geissele trigger than I can see them selling very well. I would like the option to have a full auto feel for range fun but would never spend $10k for a real machine gun.
Seems interesting for sure. Would like to see the guys and how it works.
I'm currently saving 10K for a real machine gun...
While I have no real use for a FA, I would be interested....if a batfe ok letter comes with it...
whiterabbit05
11-14-13, 08:34
Everyone who thinks it's stupid, you know you'd want to play with it if seen in real life...lol
I'd like to play with one.
Even if its half as fast as full auto, its 5% of the price and infinitely cheaper in a state like NY.
Id get it if I had the $ burning a hole in my pocket.
Ok. Yeah. We get it. Its not any more combat effective than semi auto, as has been known for some time, its unproven and a more mechanically complicated essential component than is standard and very few here would even have one on a range-only fun gun because there are cheaper ways to go pewpewpew yeeehaw and satisfy your inner child...
Id still bet my left ass cheek theyre going to make bajillions on this though... Which really speaks volumes about the long hill we have to climb in making gun owners seem like more responsible, less immature and litigious jackasses but this is a separate issue...
TacticalSledgehammer
11-14-13, 09:25
Combine that trigger, Spike's Hell-raiser lower & a slide fire stock on the upper of your choice :haha:
* Toss in a little mako too!
Cool concept, I bet they'll sell a ton. That is, until a different BATFE bureaucrat writes a different letter...(nice firearms law system we have. :rolleyes: )
LowSpeed_HighDrag
11-14-13, 09:41
Anyone that has played paintball will probably find this trigger similar to an RT trigger if I m understanding it correctly. The trigger pushes back on your finger, and you keep a pretty constant pressure down. Semi auto, but not really.
ColtSeavers
11-14-13, 09:46
Personally, I am very curious to see how it performs after some extremely long and hard use. It's reliability because of it's questionable operation concerns me more than BATFE. I'll be sticking with my 'gimmicky' ALG ACT for my own use.
Not seeing $500 value here. I can shoot just as fast with my S3G trigger and its half the price.
Shot this with a 22lr conversion to use the steel up close but can do the same with centerfire
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PJOpTjycK90&feature=youtube_gdata_player
I wonder what the split times are on shots with this.
I also wonder if since its basically just bump firing if there would be enough recoil from .22lr for it to work very well.
Reminds me of this video where a guy uses a ruberband to pull the trigger forward and is able to bump fire off shoulder. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PVfwFP_RwTQ
I do think this product is cool in that it uses the third position, yet leaves a normal single stage trigger in the semi position. I had read some one suggest some thing similar with 'semi' as a single stage trigger and 'auto' as a 2 stage trigger.
I think this trigger brings something new to the table with out any real detriment to overall function or performance. I can see them being quite poplar, especially on TOS. I guess we'll see how they hold up.
Is the sg3g a better trigger or does this new trigger offer something new aside from the 3rd selector.
PatrioticDisorder
11-14-13, 11:38
I wonder what the split times are on shots with this.
I also wonder if since its basically just bump firing if there would be enough recoil from .22lr for it to work very well.
Reminds me of this video where a guy uses a ruberband to pull the trigger forward and is able to bump fire off shoulder.
If I understand this correctly, I believe the trigger pushes your finger forward while the gun is cycling and essentially you keep continuous pressure on the trigger which will continually break the trigger causing very fast follow up shots. Probably feels very strange on your finger, not as fast as full auto but sure as hell faster than most of us can shoot a follow up shot.
I wonder how a 3 round "burst" ( if you could really call it a burst) or 3 consecutive shots will group compared to a 3 round burst from a full auto gun. If it's fast enough to get a decent group than, IMO it seems like it could be argued it can make you somewhat more effective, but from the looks of it I don't think it's cycling the gun fast enough.
I still worry about the reliability/durability of the trigger under hard use. If somehow this trigger proves as reliable as a mil spec trigger or a geissele, then I predict they will not be able to keep these in stock, or at least they won't be able to keep them in stock until the Hughes Amendment is ever successfully challenged but that's another story.
Mike Miller
11-14-13, 11:51
I don't understand the paintball trigger comparisons. I thought those use the CO2/NO2 tank to reset the trigger? This would have to use a spring
If they lower the price and include a custom Badass selector I would consider it. :meeting:
Serpico1985
11-14-13, 12:25
I think wahoo95 nailed it. Here's a video of Travis Haley dumping 15 rounds in 1.99seconds
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SFivB9JJYvk
It's seems that wahoo95 and Haley were both firing faster than the guy in the video. I just dont see the return on your investment at $500.
MikeCLeonard
11-14-13, 12:41
I just dont see the return on your investment at $500.
The faster your rifle goes pew pew pew, the more bullets go zip, zing, zepow down range. The more bullets ding, dong, dangin steel down-range, the higher the probability you have of one ricocheting back and hitting you in the face...And those bullets are worth lotta money brother!
BAM! There's your ROI. It's really quite simple.
theGOLDENchild
11-14-13, 12:52
I don't understand the paintball trigger comparisons. I thought those use the CO2/NO2 tank to reset the trigger? This would have to use a spring
The concept is the same. A force greater than the pull of the trigger pushes the trigger forward after shot. With the Automag RT, you could increase the PSI into the marker and obtain higher rates of fire. I wonder if you could adjust the return force for various rates of fire?
I just dont see the return on your investment at $500.
I don't see the return on investment for the vast majority of things people buy.
PatrioticDisorder
11-14-13, 12:54
I think wahoo95 nailed it. Here's a video of Travis Haley dumping 15 rounds in 1.99seconds
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SFivB9JJYvk
It's seems that wahoo95 and Haley were both firing faster than the guy in the video. I just dont see the return on your investment at $500.
Travis Haley probably puts 100k rounds down range each year and is pretty much as good as you can humanly be on an AR. To show a clip of Haley dumping 15 rounds in under 2 seconds and doing it with accuracy means very little for your average shooter. If this trigger proves itself to be reliable/durable and allows someone to shoot with more speed while maintaining accuracy, then it will be worth the money for many (outside of a subset of extremely skilled shooters).
It's stupid there is even a necessity for this trigger, NFA and the Hughes amendment are all constitutional violations as far as I'm concerned, but that's another topic.
Sort-a serves the same function as big tits.. and comes with the associated increased costs.. ;)
Sort-a serves the same function as big tits.. and comes with the associated increased costs.. ;)
And more attention from your neighbors :cool:
Sort-a serves the same function as big tits.. and comes with the associated increased costs.. ;)
That's hilarious, neighbors wife got double d's last year, he just moved out and the 20yr old daughter is getting a her set of double d's in a few days...lol. Yeah, the added cost thing...:)
Travis Haley probably puts 100k rounds down range each year and is pretty much as good as you can humanly be on an AR. To show a clip of Haley dumping 15 rounds in under 2 seconds and doing it with accuracy means very little for your average shooter. If this trigger proves itself to be reliable/durable and allows someone to shoot with more speed while maintaining accuracy, then it will be worth the money for many (outside of a subset of extremely skilled shooters).
It's stupid there is even a necessity for this trigger, NFA and the Hughes amendment are all constitutional violations as far as I'm concerned, but that's another topic.
It goes to show that shooting fast and as all hell is possible with a standard trigger. IMO this is one of those things that try to address lack of skill and dedication to learn a skill with hardware. It encourages people to do stupid shit instead of mastering a skill set. I would have sympathy is we knew that shooting fast and accurate were impossible with a standard gun, but we know full well what some good training and practice can accomplish.
I know I don't want to be around the lard ass mall ninja who thinks dumping a mag in 2 seconds is cool irrelevant of where the projectiles may wander to.
I think FA is pretty fun. I just can't afford the big ticket price of some grandfathered pre 86' lower so if I can get close to it for $5 bills why not throw this into a spare SBR Noveske and have some fun with it?
PatrioticDisorder
11-14-13, 16:38
It goes to show that shooting fast and as all hell is possible with a standard trigger. IMO this is one of those things that try to address lack of skill and dedication to learn a skill with hardware. It encourages people to do stupid shit instead of mastering a skill set. I would have sympathy is we knew that shooting fast and accurate were impossible with a standard gun, but we know full well what some good training and practice can accomplish.
I know I don't want to be around the lard ass mall ninja who thinks dumping a mag in 2 seconds is cool irrelevant of where the projectiles may wander to.
Realistically most of us will never be anywhere near the skill level of Haley, Costa, Vickers, Defoor, Rogers, Miculek, Lamb or pretty much any high speed low drag type you can think of be it .mil, former .mil or other. I think the reason this trigger has even come into existence shows how warped our constitutional rights have become, but that is for another thread. If the trigger ends up holding up to hard use and proves to be durable/reliable at the very least you have a good semi auto trigger that you can flip the switch on and have fun with, albeit pricey. I think the "3rd mode" may very well prove to be functional for many people and this may prove to be an interesting innovation.
Regarding the lard ass mall ninja dumping a mag that isn't controlling where the rounds are going, well that hypothetical person isn't something most of us want to be around. They're out there even without this trigger, I had a real eye opening experience of how many idiots with guns there are a while back when I moved from PA to FL and had to take a class to get my CWFL, but that is also for another thread. ;)
$250 or less would be a better price point if it proves to be reliable.
eternal24k
11-14-13, 20:44
Ya know, Koshinn, I really like that idea!
Me too, I've got a CMMG upper hanging around....
Realistically most of us will never be anywhere near the skill level of Haley, Costa, Vickers, Defoor, Rogers, Miculek, Lamb or pretty much any high speed low drag type you can think of be it .mil, former .mil or other.
This is a subject for another thread, but threads develop- such is conversation. So: Just no. Absolutely incorrect. Do not acquiesce in mediocrity and assume people who have connections and luck enough to be popularized are actually some kind of superhuman gods devoid of error. I forget who it was who was featured on SSD a few months back who wrote a bit about not being overly trusting or critical of your instructors, because they are just people too. Miculek and some other competition shooters, Ill grant you. That takes decades of in depth training. Most training for practical shooting though, I dont mean to sound pretentious here, should be fairly easy. If you cant shoot a VTAC 1-5 in under 4 seconds, an El Pres in under 7, Bill Drill in 3, PistolTraining FAST in 5 or less, etc., after just a couple of months of even owning whatever firearm youre using in the drill in question, Im honestly not sure youre competent enough for me to want you to have lethal force at your disposal. I am not talking about assumption of excellent performance, but rather expectation.
So for the purposes of this discussion, the "full-auto" capability of this FCG ought to be more than negated by CMC, Geissele, WC, AR Gold, Timney, etc., and training. Never undervalue training.
If you cant shoot a VTAC 1-5 in under 4 seconds, an El Pres in under 7, Bill Drill in 3, PistolTraining FAST in 5 or less, etc., after just a couple of months of even owning whatever firearm youre using in the drill in question, Im honestly not sure youre competent enough for me to want you to have lethal force at your disposal.
Are you proposing a test/exam to own firearms?
PatrioticDisorder
11-14-13, 22:02
So for the purposes of this discussion, the "full-auto" capability of this FCG ought to be more than negated by CMC, Geissele, WC, AR Gold, Timney, etc., and training. Never undervalue training.
Great point that has not been lost on me in the above bolded. If you don't like the product, don't buy it. For $500, I won't buy the product either until it proves to be rugged enough, but I do like the innovation.... One last thing, assuming anyone can become as competent as the names I've mentioned above I do believe is a bit delusional. It would be like me saying all I need is training and I'll become like Michael Jordan or Kobe Bryant in their prime. Formal training teaches us how to train, constant training allows us to practice and push ourselves to become better but everyone has a different aptitude.
For $500 you can join a few training sessions, matches, or competitions to be just as efficient and fast.
I don't see the value of this trigger really. A 2-gun competition in my area costs $15 per day. i think doing those events is much more rewarding than buying a product that "simulates" Select fire.
Now if it was $300 or less, it may be more appealing
It goes to show that shooting fast and as all hell is possible with a standard trigger. IMO this is one of those things that try to address lack of skill and dedication to learn a skill with hardware. It encourages people to do stupid shit instead of mastering a skill set. I would have sympathy is we knew that shooting fast and accurate were impossible with a standard gun, but we know full well what some good training and practice can accomplish.
I know I don't want to be around the lard ass mall ninja who thinks dumping a mag in 2 seconds is cool irrelevant of where the projectiles may wander to.
He's not using a standard trigger; it's an SSA.
Are you proposing a test/exam to own firearms?
Given that its not only terribly unrelated to the original topic but also that Im sharing an opinion in a forum of overwhelmingly pro-gun, not necessarily pro-reason or whatever you'd like to call it, people, Im going to have to plead the fifth here.
I have a feeling that because the trigger uses springs it will be recalled by the ATF like they did with the original inventor of the "slide fire" style stock. He sold a bunch, then ATF changes their mind and goes after everyone who ever bought one. If your going to buy it pay cash at a gun show. Don't buy it, save some headaches later.
Would be fun as hell with a .22 upper though.
I have a feeling that because the trigger uses springs it will be recalled by the ATF like they did with the original inventor of the "slide fire" style stock. He sold a bunch, then ATF changes their mind and goes after everyone who ever bought one. If your going to buy it pay cash at a gun show. Don't buy it, save some headaches later.
Would be fun as hell with a .22 upper though.
What makes it "fun as hell" with 22lr? It seems to me it's either fun or it's not. I enjoy .556 way more than .22lr unless I have a child or a timid female shooting with me. I can understand the cost part but not the caliber drop making it fun as hell. Could it be the old...If I'm shooting .556, I must be training for combat mentality?
What makes it "fun as hell" with 22lr? It seems to me it's either fun or it's not. I enjoy .556 way more than .22lr unless I have a child or a timid female shooting with me. I can understand the cost part but not the caliber drop making it fun as hell. Could it be the old...If I'm shooting .556, I must be training for combat mentality?
There is no such thing as degrees of fun to you?
There is no such thing as degrees of fun to you?
Yes there are, just wondering what others thoughts are. Fun is always good...:agree:
justin_247
11-16-13, 15:17
If you cant shoot a VTAC 1-5 in under 4 seconds, an El Pres in under 7, Bill Drill in 3, PistolTraining FAST in 5 or less, etc., after just a couple of months of even owning whatever firearm youre using in the drill in question, Im honestly not sure youre competent enough for me to want you to have lethal force at your disposal.
Are you a troll? Because the vast majority of the US military, including those in combat arms, cannot meet that criteria. Hell, even in Kyle Lamb's video of the El Prez drill, one of his students, who was obviously good enough for Lamb to videotape his running the drill, was only able to get down to 7.54 seconds, which Lamb called a "great run."
Go troll somewhere else.
I still want a minigun! There is just something about them I like.
I still want a minigun! There is just something about them I like.
Ahhh, yeah me too.
I still want a minigun! There is just something about them I like.
You would have to mortgage your ammo...:sarcastic:
Finally something to make me more tactical
Finally something to make me more tactical
The best post on this thread.
Given that its not only terribly unrelated to the original topic but also that Im sharing an opinion in a forum of overwhelmingly pro-gun, not necessarily pro-reason or whatever you'd like to call it, people, Im going to have to plead the fifth here.
Wow. I guess we're all irrational cretins. Thank goodness that we have enlightened mind like yours to make decisions for us.
I guess my understanding of the Second Amendment and natural rights is outdated.
Perhaps we should all pass a government-mandated opinion qualification exam before we can exercise free speech. I mean, otherwise, someone's feelings could get hurt due to unsophisticated opinions.
Boba Fett v2
11-17-13, 01:07
An arguably faster, more expensive way to punch paper and ping steel, which circumvents current restrictions with regards to select fire. Gotta love it. Keeping an eye on this to track development and end user reports.
SKI_Scottsdale
11-17-13, 02:00
Shooting well is in reach of many people, especially when one is willing to seek training. Shooting BRILLIANTLY, on the other hand, well...
[EDIT] Most training for practical shooting though, I dont mean to sound pretentious here, should be fairly easy. If you cant shoot a... FAST in 5 or less... Im honestly not sure youre competent enough for me to want you to have lethal force at your disposal. [END_EDIT]
There are JUST TWELVE people who've ever officially broken 5 seconds doing the FAST drill. So apparently your opinion is that there are just 12 people in existence who are competent enough to have lethal force "at their disposal". Troll elsewhere...
I'll throw in my .02 cents here. This thing is a waste of money (with the possible sole exception of those who shoot competition). Your average Joe Dirt shooter will do nothing but waste ammo. I am all about people blowing money if they can afford it. But, considering some of the AR's I have seen over the years I suspect we will see people potentially putting these in garbage guns. Maybe these guys found a new gimmick and maybe they will sell them by the thousands, but I would rather see people spend their money on making sensible upgrades to their AR's and seek some training.
He is just riding the reset point, no biggie. It's pretty stupid to make a "fake" full auto switch on the AR. Just learn to ride the reset and you too can spew lead.
Heck, here is what can do with the stock trigger on my Daniel Defense M4V1. The standard trigger is the heavier mil spec trigger, but...mastering the reset you can squeeze them off pretty fast. Can't see any point in spending $500 for this.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D_G7xNhpEkE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UieFjuPIitY
ForTehNguyen
11-17-13, 10:13
this is a better setup than those bump fire stocks. They can charge $500 because the alternative is a $15k lower
Wonder how this would run with a belt fed upper
Could it be the old...If I'm shooting .556, I must be training for combat mentality?
The answer would be No. Actually never came to mind nor have I heard of such a mentality. You are correct it would be fun out of almost any caliber. Not practical but fun.
The reason i specified 22lr is because it is affordable and has extremely low recoil, which is directly related to the length of time I can have fun and which members of my family can have fun as well. Would it be more fun out of a 6.8 or 5.56 upper given unlimited resources? Sure but I would blow all my ammo away in no time and would not be in a position to afford to replace it quickly. I do train/shoot w/ .22 more than .556 only because I can afford to do it more often, with all members of my family, and I can still work on the mechanics of it all. Plus I do not have to induce a malfunction, it will occur eventually and unexpectedly.
Boba Fett v2
11-17-13, 13:25
Could it be the old...If I'm shooting 5.56, I must be training for combat mentality?
Fixed it for you.
Sent from my piece of s**t phone using Tapatalk2 (which can be equally unreliable when coupled with a junk phone)
[QUOTE=Boba Fett v2;1795916]Fixed it for you.
Thanks, what a difference a . can make...lol
Sewvacman, lots of good reasons there, thanks for the reply.
And the belt fed uppers that are hitting the market would be fun with this trigger if it works :)
Combine that trigger, Spike's Hell-raiser lower & a slide fire stock on the upper of your choice :haha:
* Toss in a little mako too!
I was thinking more the Ares Defense belt fed upper. Combine this trigger and that upper and you essentially have a legal M-249, right?
Edit: beat by 2 other posters. Drat!
mastiffhound
11-17-13, 23:35
I'll throw in my .02 cents here. This thing is a waste of money (with the possible sole exception of those who shoot competition). Your average Joe Dirt shooter will do nothing but waste ammo. I am all about people blowing money if they can afford it. But, considering some of the AR's I have seen over the years I suspect we will see people potentially putting these in garbage guns. Maybe these guys found a new gimmick and maybe they will sell them by the thousands, but I would rather see people spend their money on making sensible upgrades to their AR's and seek some training.
Absolutely.
I've spent more time teaching my nephew how to use a firearm than anyone else. His first time shooting my 10/22 he just wanted to pull the trigger as fast as possible like his video games. He realized he wasn't hitting the targets pretty quick. His first jam he couldn't figure out what to do because guns don't jam on video games. FTFs, stovepipes, and FTEs happen a lot more often with .22lr. He can shoot pretty fast with a .22lr now and actually make hits. I was really proud the first time I watched him do a tap, rack, bang on his own. Now that I have my .22lr upper he can go through a 525 round box of .22lr in 2 or 3 hours including loading his own mags. I highly doubt it would have enhanced or made his training any better.
Going from an 8 year old who had never fired a gun besides on Call of Duty to a 14 year old who can shoot, clear jams, and properly handle firearms makes me proud. Teaching him with a trigger like this would have been detrimental I feel. The lure of just shooting fast is hard to get past for a kid. I've met grown-ups that just want to shoot fast when I used to go to a range before moving to the country. They didn't hit anything either. As most have said, proper training makes all the difference. Until that changes I'll stick with what I have and spend money on ammo, training, optics, mounts, and lights that make myself, my knowledge, and my equipment better. There are a lot of things that will do this for me long before an unproven $500 trigger becomes an option to purchase. I can see spending $100 to $250 on a proven trigger but twice that doesn't make sense. I guess I'm just practical to a fault.
MichaelZWilliamson
11-21-13, 12:24
I have a feeling that because the trigger uses springs it will be recalled by the ATF like they did with the original inventor of the "slide fire" style stock. He sold a bunch, then ATF changes their mind and goes after everyone who ever bought one. If your going to buy it pay cash at a gun show. Don't buy it, save some headaches later.
Would be fun as hell with a .22 upper though.
If that had actually happened, it would be bad. But if you read the letters they sent him, at no point did they say, "This is not a firearm and not subject to then NFA." What they said was, "We couldn't get it to work, but as long as it complies with Title 18, USC, chapter, verse, it would be legal."
The mfr of this says in email:
The 3MR is a drop-in 3-mode fire control system with Safe,
Semi-Automatic, and Tac-Con™'s patented 3rd Mode. The 3rd mode has a
positive reset that dramatically reduces the split times between shots.
The positive reset characteristic is achieved by transferring the force
from the bolt carrier through the trigger assembly to assist the trigger
back onto the front sear. As a result, this gives the firearm the
fastest reset possible. Both semi and 3rd mode positions exhibit a
non-adjustable 4.5 pound trigger pull weight. Why 4.5 pounds? Because
most law enforcement agencies limit any trigger used for duty to 4.5
pounds and above. Extensive testing done by Tac-Con™, the ATF (BATFE),
and professional shooters have proven that this is the fastest
semi-automatic trigger in the world. The 3MR is ATF approved and is NOT
a NFA part. Each trigger is accompanied by a copy of the ATF letter.
This is not a bump fire system. The shooter must pull the trigger once
for every round fired.
~~~
So I'm going to wait and see how it plays out.
munchie3409
11-21-13, 21:45
There is always one guy that always brings up the Akins Accelerator. Instead of reading something online and repeating it over and over, you need to research and stick with FACTS. The ATF overturned the AA because Akins original submission to the ATF did not include a spring in the stock. Akins, redesigned the stock after he got ATF approval and that was the reason the AA was overturned. Go to Fostech's site and you will see that Akins sold the rights to Fostech and Fostech offers the AA2 without the spring.
If you are going to pretend to know what you are talking about...at least learn the name of the product and say that it's the Akins Accelerator instead of the "slide fire" stock.
http://fostechoutdoors.com/shop/index.php?l=product_list&c=2
I have a feeling that because the trigger uses springs it will be recalled by the ATF like they did with the original inventor of the "slide fire" style stock. He sold a bunch, then ATF changes their mind and goes after everyone who ever bought one. If your going to buy it pay cash at a gun show. Don't buy it, save some headaches later.
Would be fun as hell with a .22 upper though.
DreadPirateMoyer
11-22-13, 00:35
On top of that, all triggers use springs to allow the trigger to reset and return forward. This is a different situation than the Akins, even if it were banned because it had a spring-assisted return in it.
ETA: ok, not all triggers, but 99.9999% of AR-15 triggers.
Unneccesary? most certainly. Gimmicky as hell? yea. But honestly if it gets people out shooting or at least interested in shooting? Then so be it.
Looking at the video again, I don't think its quite as easy as they make it look. If you look closely I think he barely is holding the grip with his strong hand. Very loose grip to aid in the motion to get it to shoot like that.
I don't actually think you just keep pulling and it resets for you and then your pressure pulls it again.
I'm not gonna lie, I'd like to play with one.
BUT, if you're looking at one, you better have a red dot, good sling, good light, plenty of mags and ammo, and at least some sort of training under your belt. My point is money can be spent in better ways.
I also hear a version for the AK is to be released as well. Won't be going on mine though. Lo Pro is the way to go. The bubbas at the range would go ape shit if they though I had FA. I don't need ATF or LPD knocking on my door.
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landrvrnut22
11-22-13, 10:52
I was under the impression the third mode was more of a short reset trigger ala Sig or Glock.
So you have Safe, Semi (with "standard" feel trigger) and third mode (short reset, and maybe lightened trigger)....
ArfLard nonsense. They'll sell a ton of these to the lard asses on ARFcom.
Why would they make an AK version when trigger slap mode is already a common option?
deadlyfire
11-22-13, 16:33
Because it's not tactical.
Their trigger slap would enable glorious soviet bullet storm. Very much effect on area target.
I'll say it again, learn to ride the reset on your stock AR trigger and you will have what this stupid thing offers, or close enough to it that there is no reason anyone should spend $500 for this stupid thing.
Looking at the video again, I don't think its quite as easy as they make it look. If you look closely I think he barely is holding the grip with his strong hand. Very loose grip to aid in the motion to get it to shoot like that.
I don't actually think you just keep pulling and it resets for you and then your pressure pulls it again.
That's what I thought as well. Somewhere around 42 to 45 seconds into the video. It looks like bump-fire to me. Not saying it is. Just what it looks like.
ETA: Looks like there is some technique involved.
Fireman1291
11-26-13, 08:22
I'll be watching this to see how it performs. My Facebook fans want me to review it but not for $500. I won't be a guinea pig for that much coin.
Eurodriver
11-26-13, 09:01
As soon as I saw MARPAT cammies with bloused boots I shut off the video.
They posted a letter dated Oct 31 2013 from the ATF saying its a semi-auto trigger...
As said before, how long before they change their mind and the buyers are screwed out of $500?
Once they change their minds, what is probability of being prosecuted prior to being notified of having to return it?
Wonder how the NJ State Police would take to this lol
Voodoo_Man
11-26-13, 13:17
I give about a year before other manufacturers realize that adding a 3rd selective fire ability to a trigger system, while not auto, is perfectly acceptable to the ATF and will sell in droves, expect more of these types to come out soon.
Who here wouldn't buy this trigger if it was made by Geiselle?
Anyone using a Geissele does not need a stupid trigger like this one
Sent from my SPH-L720 using Tapatalk
Voodoo_Man
11-26-13, 13:36
Anyone using a Geissele does not need a stupid trigger like this one
Sent from my SPH-L720 using Tapatalk
If you are talking about people who buy aftermarket trigger systems for the goal of getting better times/splits and to increase their accuracy, sure I agree.
I suspect, however, that those are the vast minority of those who would buy an aftermarket trigger group.
I have not studied the intricacies of this trigger, but we can draw some conclusions from the way it works-
If the trigger is forcibly reset to it's forward position, it must do so from some kind of mechanical action which is obviously powered by the BCG as it moves, not a spring as a standard design uses. The mechanical action resets the trigger even if the finger is held back. It's possible that with enough finger pressure against the trigger, it could slow the BCG or even stop it
It's possible that with enough finger pressure against the trigger, it could slow the BCG or even stop it
I'm thinking that would be one HELL of a lot of force from the index finger given the velocity that the BCG is at heading forward. Not knowing the internal workings of their reset mechanism, barring some kind of lever/gear force multiplier being in the trigger group, there isn't going to be enough pressure from the shooters index finger to pull that one off.
You could be right. I'm just speculating
And the belt fed uppers that are hitting the market would be fun with this trigger if it works :)
For the win!!!!!!
wildcard600
11-26-13, 14:56
unless there is some crazy mechanism in there that nobody has yet thought of, its still bumpfire no matter how they dress it up.
dangrullon87
11-27-13, 13:58
I'd rather have this trigger than that ugly ass bumpfire stock.
I'd rather have this trigger than that ugly ass bumpfire stock.
Then please buy one and let us know how well it works!
I give about a year before other manufacturers realize that adding a 3rd selective fire ability to a trigger system, while not auto, is perfectly acceptable to the ATF and will sell in droves, expect more of these types to come out soon.
Who here wouldn't buy this trigger if it was made by Geiselle?
Me.
It's a stupid system and I don't really care who manufactures it.
It looks like this thing is just a trigger slap device. With the selector in the third position, it allows a lever to come into play that will push the disconnector down when the BCG travels rearward. Bolt carrier >>> hammer >>> lever >>> disconnector. So it 'assists' reset by applying additional reset force about equal to the disconnector spring. Maybe since its acting through that spring it won't really be so trigger-slappy, but I don't know...seems like an undesirable thing to me.
Anyone using a Geissele does not need a stupid trigger like this one
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I would estimate that I'm approaching about 500-550 rpm with an SD-3G - for maybe the first magazine... Then it inevitably slows to a crawl as my index finger gets tired and cramps up. That's what the happy switch is good for - less finger fatigue when engaging in suppressive fire.
Then please buy one and let us know how well it works!
I'd rather have this trigger than that ugly ass bumpfire stock.
Yes, please do, I'd love to hear all about it and see the juicy innards.
They are smoking something.
It's crack... No doubt about it. They are definitely smoking crack...
If they were trying to corner the Best new AR-15 gimmick of 2013, they won. Seriously what is the point? Ammo is so damn expensive now days who is really going to bump-fire and dump enough magazines to make this purchase worth while? You pay $500.00 dollars and you dump a few mags to show off to you friends or make a couple Youtube videos, then what? OK so maybe you use the hell out of this and you dump magazines like crazy all the time. You definitely have more money then I do to burn up on ammo then! A fool and his money are soon parted twice with this thing, $500.00 for the trigger then a crap ton on ammo to support it.
Personally I'd rather train to hit targets with less ammo!
If this is a GOOD trigger and was on par with the price of a Geissele I would definitely give one a try but at $500.00, I'll pass. Maybe Mr. Geissele can come up with something similar at a better price?
I do agree with the comments about taking this over the ugly ass bump-fire stocks though. Although, I don't really want one of those either!
wildcard600
11-30-13, 11:18
yeah.... that $500 is better put toward a RDIAS or RLL.
but I guess if you gotta bump, this is the best LOOKING solution.
MIDGAPATRIOT
11-30-13, 15:52
They are smoking something.
Yep, to much for me.
ManchuMedic
12-01-13, 10:47
Anyone preorder this?
jaybirdritenour2
12-01-13, 17:26
Ok so I read the ATF approval. And it forces you finger forward when the trigger resets only when the selector is in the 3 oclock position. So as long as you keep constant pull backwards on the trigger it is going to keep firing full auto like. Here you can read also : http://tacfirecon.com/wp-content/uploads/TAC-CON-TM-ATF-Approval-Letter.pdf
Ok so I read the ATF approval. And it forces you finger forward when the trigger resets only when the selector is in the 3 oclock position. So as long as you keep constant pull backwards on the trigger it is going to keep firing full auto like. Here you can read also : http://tacfirecon.com/wp-content/uploads/TAC-CON-TM-ATF-Approval-Letter.pdf
I'm pretty sure that was covered a week ago :p
jaybirdritenour2
12-01-13, 17:37
Sorry I have stayed with the thread. I know there was still people who thought it was a light trigger when on the third position and you bounced it yourself. And I didn't see anyone who posted they read the ATF approval which states it pushes your finger forward which means there is no assuming anymore. If this has been posted I'm sorry.
Wonder how dependent on finger pressure the reset is.
This trigger really needs to be 10 o'clock fire and 12 o'clock rapid fire. Rotating to the 3 o'clock kind of sucks.
juliomorris
12-01-13, 18:56
Looking at the trigger group, it looks like the lever on the rear trips the disconnect as the bolt cocks the hammer. The hammer is what is pushing down on the lever to trip disconnect and at the same time it causes the trigger to be pushed forward, allowing the trigger to engage the hammer. it looks like all the action takes place as the bolt travels rearward, so I could see how to much tension on the trigger could cause issues. I don't need one so I won't be wasting any money on one, but if any of you get one a quick review of how it works would nice.
Questions for first review:
1. Can it work in large pin Colts? Looks like only mil-spec pins.
2. Can most AR lowers allow rotation to 3rd position if they don't have markings?
3. Would the non full auto lower receiver block need to be milled out?
4. Would running suppressed have enough recoil impulse to reset the trigger?
5. Would an AR 22 conversion have enough recoil impulse to reset the trigger?
6. Would it work with S&W M&P 15-22 direct blow back bolt?
7. Would it work with 9mm ARs?
8. What would happen if you combined this with a slide fire stock?
9. What would happen if you lightened the trigger pull lower than 4.5lb?
10. Will any FA selector switch work? Aka ambi.
High-ish end after market trigger $200 + selector switch $50 + $200 tax stamp not that bad compared to $15k registered FA.
High-ish end after market trigger $200 + selector switch $50 + $200 tax stamp not that bad compared to $15k registered FA.
What's the $200 tax stamp for? There is no tax stamp with this trigger group.
What's the $200 tax stamp for? There is no tax stamp with this trigger group.
I just meant in place of the $200 tax stamp you would have to get in addition to paying all that money and 9 month wait for a real full auto.
The selector is most likely a proprietary design. A customer asked us about whether our selectors (semi or select fire) would work with it, I believe he actually contacted them and found that it is indeed proprietary.
I don't know whether a 3 way, M16 selector would work in it, something tells me it will not, as this unique 3 position selector's third position is supposed to interact with the trigger to compel the trigger to move forward with more vigor, from what I've read...
Everyone on this board would own a FA AR lower or sear if they could be had for $500. Its only legislation that keeps the majority from doing so, since prices have gone through the roof and the NFA process is painstakingly long.
I find this product interesting and applaud the effort companies are going to in order to provide something close to FA ROF while being legally compliant with the NFA rules.
Is it practical for 99% of people out there? No. Is it economical to fire at FA or near FA ROF for 99% of peoples shooting? No. But then again that is no different if you own a pre-86 machine gun or are fortunate enough to work as LE / Military with issued machine guns.
In the end products like this just show how stupid the Hughes amendment is.
Everyone on this board would own a FA AR lower or sear if they could be had for $500. Its only legislation that keeps the majority from doing so, since prices have gone through the roof and the NFA process is painstakingly long.
I find this product interesting and applaud the effort companies are going to in order to provide something close to FA ROF while being legally compliant with the NFA rules.
Is it practical for 99% of people out there? No. Is it economical to fire at FA or near FA ROF for 99% of peoples shooting? No. But then again that is no different if you own a pre-86 machine gun or are fortunate enough to work as LE / Military with issued machine guns.
In the end products like this just show how stupid the Hughes amendment is.
You know, while I'm not interested in buying one of these, you just make sense man. Good post. No...great post.
These guys are responsive.
<info@TacFireCon.com>
Questions for 3MR trigger:
1. Can it work in large pin Colts? Looks like only mil-spec pins. We have a version for large pins but it is not for sale yet.
2. Can most AR lowers allow rotation to 3rd position if they don't have markings? Yes it is not your lower it is the selector that allows that.
3. Would the non full auto lower receiver block need to be milled out? No modifications are necessary.
4. Would running suppressed have enough recoil impulse to reset the trigger? Done it, it works.
5. Would an AR 22 conversion have enough recoil impulse to reset the trigger? We have not tested the conversions yet.
6. Would it work with S&W M&P 15-22 direct blow back bolt? Tried it last week too fast and the selector needs to be redesigned.
7. Would it work with 9mm ARs? See #5.
8. What would happen if you combined this with a slide fire stock? I am not sure but I think the moving stock would take over and our trigger would be dependent on it for speed.
9. What would happen if you lightened the trigger pull lower than 4.5lb? It affects the balance between the rate of fire and the and accuracy.
10. Will any FA selector switch work? Aka ambi. No but we offer a lefty and we are working on an ambi.
Fireman1291
12-03-13, 13:22
These guys are responsive.
<info@TacFireCon.com>
Questions for 3MR trigger:
1. Can it work in large pin Colts? Looks like only mil-spec pins. We have a version for large pins but it is not for sale yet.
2. Can most AR lowers allow rotation to 3rd position if they don't have markings? Yes it is not your lower it is the selector that allows that.
3. Would the non full auto lower receiver block need to be milled out? No modifications are necessary.
4. Would running suppressed have enough recoil impulse to reset the trigger? Done it, it works.
5. Would an AR 22 conversion have enough recoil impulse to reset the trigger? We have not tested the conversions yet.
6. Would it work with S&W M&P 15-22 direct blow back bolt? Tried it last week too fast and the selector needs to be redesigned.
7. Would it work with 9mm ARs? See #5.
8. What would happen if you combined this with a slide fire stock? I am not sure but I think the moving stock would take over and our trigger would be dependent on it for speed.
9. What would happen if you lightened the trigger pull lower than 4.5lb? It affects the balance between the rate of fire and the and accuracy.
10. Will any FA selector switch work? Aka ambi. No but we offer a lefty and we are working on an ambi.
How long did it take them? I sent them two emails with no reply.
They responded in a couple hours when I emailed them at info@tacfirecon.com
Everyone on this board would own a FA AR lower or sear if they could be had for $500. Its only legislation that keeps the majority from doing so, since prices have gone through the roof and the NFA process is painstakingly long.
I find this product interesting and applaud the effort companies are going to in order to provide something close to FA ROF while being legally compliant with the NFA rules.
Is it practical for 99% of people out there? No. Is it economical to fire at FA or near FA ROF for 99% of peoples shooting? No. But then again that is no different if you own a pre-86 machine gun or are fortunate enough to work as LE / Military with issued machine guns.
In the end products like this just show how stupid the Hughes amendment is.
Damn straight!
Everyone on this board would own a FA AR lower or sear if they could be had for $500. Its only legislation that keeps the majority from doing so, since prices have gone through the roof and the NFA process is painstakingly long.
I find this product interesting and applaud the effort companies are going to in order to provide something close to FA ROF while being legally compliant with the NFA rules.
Is it practical for 99% of people out there? No. Is it economical to fire at FA or near FA ROF for 99% of peoples shooting? No. But then again that is no different if you own a pre-86 machine gun or are fortunate enough to work as LE / Military with issued machine guns.
In the end products like this just show how stupid the Hughes amendment is.
Well said. I think many people forget the main thing Americans actually pull the trigger on their guns for, fun!
ManchuMedic
12-12-13, 01:22
Anyone have any updates on the trigger or preorder it?
Adding to the questions for a review
What is the expected life of the trigger? Tested round count?
How good is the normal non bumpfire trigger?
Some real experience on the trigger is obviously what's needed. If the regular trigger is durable and good, you're basically shelling out another 300 for the bumpfire part. Until someone actually tries out it in a serious way, we won't really know if this implementation of bumpfire has any real use. As mentioned before, if the normal trigger is good and it's durable the Ares belt-fed seems like a great fit.
NoveskeFan
12-26-13, 16:53
Arfcom has a 30+ page thread about this trigger. Not much real info in those many pages, but many that claimed to have placed preorders have cancelled after a few videos were posted showing less than impressive rates of fire. From what I've seen, I think it best to wait for some of the heavy hitters in the training world to get their hands on them for review.
Well said. If there were no 922(o), EVERY one of my self loading firearms would be select fire. Instead, I fortunately have a few transferable fullautos and the rest are semiauto. If this product works as designed AND ATF does not declare them to be post-86 machinegun conversion devices, then kudos to the company for bringing them to market.
Everyone on this board would own a FA AR lower or sear if they could be had for $500. Its only legislation that keeps the majority from doing so, since prices have gone through the roof and the NFA process is painstakingly long.
I find this product interesting and applaud the effort companies are going to in order to provide something close to FA ROF while being legally compliant with the NFA rules.
Is it practical for 99% of people out there? No. Is it economical to fire at FA or near FA ROF for 99% of peoples shooting? No. But then again that is no different if you own a pre-86 machine gun or are fortunate enough to work as LE / Military with issued machine guns.
In the end products like this just show how stupid the Hughes amendment is.
I could do without the gothic/zombie looking selector lever.
Ferris2son
12-26-13, 20:29
They haven't tested the trigger with blowback actions like .22LR or 9mm yet. Their response was 'if the action uses a standard AR hammer, it should work'.
I'd like one for my 9mm AR.
Doc. Holiday
12-27-13, 10:46
I would only see myself using this in a .22lr. Or at least until the 5.56 round cost goes down (haha yea right...)
I betting this trigger is a huge let down, just a wild assed guess.
I betting this trigger is a huge let down, just a wild assed guess.
If the videos posted are representative of the product you maybe right. The super 3 gun trigger allows faster cyclical rate of fire with just a few hours of trigger time learning. I really hope this product does better. I've been watching the threads waiting for a subject matter expert to get their hands on it.
Per the videos on YouTube, this trigger seems to have a slower cyclic rate than what the manufacturers video made it appear to have. I was fairly curious until I saw the youtube videos... unless it will work with 22LR. But I still wouldn't pay $500 for it...
I betting this trigger is a huge let down, just a wild assed guess.
By the looks of it on TOS, it's bs. I guess there was a bunch of drama etc and pretty much the board is jumping ship from any want or interest on this product. Pretty funny.
Doc. Holiday
12-30-13, 09:41
Doesn't surprise me. I don't see this trigger getting any attention unless they drop the price and it being compatible with 22lr.
Per the videos on YouTube, this trigger seems to have a slower cyclic rate than what the manufacturers video made it appear to have. I was fairly curious until I saw the youtube videos... unless it will work with 22LR. But I still wouldn't pay $500 for it...
You made me head over to youtube...
Well okay, seeing as how I wasn't impressed by the factory videos... the end user videos are even more underwhelming.
It's much slower than semi-auto fire based on YouTube.
I said it in the beginning I'll say it now_anyone that wastes 500$ on one of these when they can get a geissele for half that or less isnt the brightest lightbulb.
NoveskeFan
12-31-13, 21:11
The funny (or sad) thing, is that all the "reviews" so far, are from friends of the company. I'm still waiting for a substantial review from an unbiased source. If Vickers or Howe or another big name says this trigger is worth $500, I'd take it more seriously. Until then, it's a range toy...and really, most likely will stay as such.
I'd bet those guys on YouTube are thinking "WTF, I paid $500 for this lousy POS?"
Produce and market a product for the AR15 and people will buy it...marketing 101.
alvincullumyork
01-01-14, 13:00
You made me head over to youtube...
Well okay, seeing as how I wasn't impressed by the factory videos... the end user videos are even more underwhelming.
Link for the lazy?
Sent from my clutch hand while riding a wheelie....
quaesitor logica
01-01-14, 13:12
Too bad it sucks. seemed like an interesting idea
Bolt_Overide
01-01-14, 13:55
It doesn't even appear to be worth watching the end user videos on youtube to be honest. I did, and I want my 10 minutes back.
It's much slower than semi-auto fire based on YouTube.
I don't get the purpose of this stupid trigger at all. Who needs it for fast semi-auto firing?
Check out some of these sequences...this is a Daniel Defense M4 V1 with the stock mil spec trigger, which is an 8-9 pound trigger.
This is not bump firing, just riding the reset on the stock trigger. Now, who in their right mind would spent $495 for a "bump fire" trigger? I'd rather sink that money into a Geissele SSA and still have money left over for more gun goodies.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D_G7xNhpEkE
I don't get the purpose of this stupid trigger at all. Who needs it for fast semi-auto firing?
Check out some of these sequences...this is a Daniel Defense M4 V1 with the stock mil spec trigger, which is an 8-9 pound trigger.
This is not bump firing, just riding the reset on the stock trigger. Now, who in their right mind would spent $495 for a "bump fire" trigger? I'd rather sink that money into a Geissele SSA and still have money left over for more gun goodies.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D_G7xNhpEkE
What does it matter? This is is America. If you build it and people come you make money. Or it flops hard.
Personally I'm of the mindset that if it gets people out shooting or involved then it is a good thing, generally. Especially since most gun owners are not shooters.
Sent from my DROID X2
Or, to put it another way, as H. L. Mencken put it:
Democracy is a pathetic belief in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance. No one in this world, so far as I know—and I have researched the records for years, and employed agents to help me—has ever lost money by underestimating the intelligence of the great masses of the plain people. Nor has anyone ever lost public office thereby.
I don't get the purpose of this stupid trigger at all. Who needs it for fast semi-auto firing?
Check out some of these sequences...this is a Daniel Defense M4 V1 with the stock mil spec trigger, which is an 8-9 pound trigger.
This is not bump firing, just riding the reset on the stock trigger. Now, who in their right mind would spent $495 for a "bump fire" trigger? I'd rather sink that money into a Geissele SSA and still have money left over for more gun goodies.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D_G7xNhpEkE
Point Proven!
quaesitor logica
01-01-14, 16:52
Or, to put it another way, as H. L. Mencken put it:
Democracy is a pathetic belief in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance. No one in this world, so far as I know—and I have researched the records for years, and employed agents to help me—has ever lost money by underestimating the intelligence of the great masses of the plain people. Nor has anyone ever lost public office thereby.
With the TACFIRE trigger you don't have to think about riding the reset or even finding out what the heck trigger reset is. That might be worth $495 to average panic buyer.
NoveskeFan
01-01-14, 17:31
With the TACFIRE trigger you don't have to think about riding the reset or even finding out what the heck trigger reset is. That might be worth $495 to average panic buyer.
You have to figure out the trigger. The company has stated that there is a "learning curve" to the 3rd mode. The several YouTube videos have shown a variable rate of fire, dependent upon the users familiarity with the system. Same as learning to fire a USGI trigger quickly & accurately. The "average panic buyer" (uninformed buyer) saw the video of the selector going into "full auto" position and pulled out their wallets.
quaesitor logica
01-01-14, 20:32
You have to figure out the trigger. The company has stated that there is a "learning curve" to the 3rd mode. The several YouTube videos have shown a variable rate of fire, dependent upon the users familiarity with the system. Same as learning to fire a USGI trigger quickly & accurately. The "average panic buyer" (uninformed buyer) saw the video of the selector going into "full auto" position and pulled out their wallets.
Agreed, but you would have to read a bit to find that out. It seems to me that alot of people are angry that this trigger is alot closer to a slide-fire than a select-fire. Quite a commotion over this trigger on TOS
There's only so many things that one can actually do to innovate in the AR market. I'll give em credit for coming up with something new to sell that isn't another flash hider or free float rail.
I saw the initial reply on TOS about how many of these things were selling. I bet they could have priced it around $200 had they expected this kind of turn out. Ain't no way in hell they are going to say no to 1500+ sales at $500 each though. Plenty of room for sale pricing once they get slow.
If it were something Geiselle was offering (their quality) I could see spending an extra few dollars over a regular Geiselle trigger to get the fun part but I can't see pissing away more than $150 on an unknown quality item that most likely isn't going to offer any benefits in regular mode like a Geiselle would.
quaesitor logica
01-02-14, 00:14
There's only so many things that one can actually do to innovate in the AR market. I'll give em credit for coming up with something new to sell that isn't another flash hider or free float rail.
I saw the initial reply on TOS about how many of these things were selling. I bet they could have priced it around $200 had they expected this kind of turn out. Ain't no way in hell they are going to say no to 1500+ sales at $500 each though. Plenty of room for sale pricing once they get slow.
If it were something Geiselle was offering (their quality) I could see spending an extra few dollars over a regular Geiselle trigger to get the fun part but I can't see pissing away more than $150 on an unknown quality item that most likely isn't going to offer any benefits in regular mode like a Geiselle would.
I read a review from an unaffiliated person that said the TAC-CON was a very good single stage 4.5lb trigger. No creep and a very crisp break. The hybrid mode got pretty weak reviews though. He pretty much stated that he would be interested in the trigger @ about the $200 mark.
Anybody get their paws on one yet?
After watching all the vids...I instead went to a true and tried Geissele SD3G for half the price...
superstratjunky
01-05-14, 17:17
I'm going to wait & see. It just came out. I also hear that they are selling a lower with it preinstalled for cheaper. I am also relieved that there is no mods needed for mil-spec lowers. This is something I will be keeping an eye & ear on.
To properly utilize this trigger group to its maximum potential, one must learn how to use it...I'd go Geissele at roughly half the cost but with a metric ton more reputation. The pre-release vids just don't convince. Realistically, I don't see where it brings anything to table except a "third mode".
Just trying to keep this thread (ir)relevant. Any new developments?
wildcard600
01-08-14, 17:02
Just trying to keep this thread (ir)relevant. Any new developments?
other than more evidence coming out that this thing is an overpriced gimmick..... no
im interested,still on the fence
im interested,still on the fence
Trying to raise your post count?
nothing better to do then to question my post? actually i saw this trigger while ago and my account just got acctivated and i was interested in the post, THANKS
Word to the wise. Please post something of substance.
nothing better to do then to question my post? actually i saw this trigger while ago and my account just got acctivated and i was interested in the post, THANKS
Looks like they're shipping.
I called my LGS looking for a a CMC trigger for my build. The guy that answered the phone immediately advised me to come in and sign up to purchase a new type of trigger that just hit the market. I asked if it was gonna cost 500.00 bucks, (lolz) I got crickets on the other end of the line. I told him that I wasn't interested in anything like that.
Makes me think that there's a ton of markup in these. I haven't boycotted them altogether, but the thought has crossed my mind, but it sure doesn't give a good impression of the store in general.
ManchuMedic
01-09-14, 22:58
Someone has to have a few hundred bucks burning a whole in their pocket. Has anyone found a review about it yet?
Someone has to have a few hundred bucks burning a whole in their pocket. Has anyone found a review about it yet?
Sorry. I HAD a few hundred, but I bought a Geissele SSA-E. Installed it yesterday.
ManchuMedic
01-09-14, 23:14
Sorry. I HAD a few hundred, but I bought a Geissele SSA-E. Installed it yesterday.
So did I! I bought two SSA-E triggers directly from him cause he had that 30% off sale on his website. Can't wait to take it to the range next week!
Leaveammoforme
01-10-14, 00:04
I heard this thing melts gas tubes cause it's so fast. Like m231 fast.
Like others have said, I am not impressed thus far. I am sure they will get rich selling them though. Or some new ruling will pop up & eveyone will get to send them in to ATF ,even if they don't create simulated auto.
LOL, this product and thread seems to have generated a huge number of S3G sales!
ManchuMedic
01-10-14, 08:43
LOL, this product and thread seems to have generated a huge number of S3G sales!
I bought a S3G too. I'm a Geissele addict! Lol
dangrullon87
01-11-14, 02:12
http://vimeo.com/83654244
Really great video of showing the trigger being used normal and suppressed. You can clearly see there is a learning curve, the 2nd shooter was definitely faster. His trigger squeeze was more refined.
Seen a few more vids of it in use. Just don't see $500.00 there. ROF is definitively slower than available alternatives and operation is inconsistent.
I wonder if you can pull the trigger just as fast in its second position?
Don't know good Sir. Maybe someone with one can affirm whether or not it's capable. I really want to like this trigger but can't see it offering anything more than a Geissele trigger except the ability to flip the safety into third mode at about twice the price.
The idea of spending a good ~1000 rounds in ammo money on a device that offers an impractical way to uselessly dispose of the ammo I already own holds no draw for me.
DetroitChris
01-18-14, 07:55
I few days ago I really thought about getting this even though it's a bit rich for my blood. But there are enough people who are making enough sense about the value quotient and the potential reliability issues that in won't be putting this on my summer wish list!
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Steel head
01-18-14, 09:34
The idea of spending a good ~1000 rounds in ammo money on a device that offers an impractical way to uselessly dispose of the ammo I already own holds no draw for me.
This sums it up well.
I like the idea of it and that they are pushing the NFA envelope. Perhaps it will lead to something better and less expensive down the road.
There's been ample time for this thing to have shipped out but awful quiet concerning the wunderkind trigger. Any decent vids out yet?
wildcard600
01-23-14, 14:29
There's been ample time for this thing to have shipped out but awful quiet concerning the wunderkind trigger. Any decent vids out yet?
maybe they are junk and those who bought them are ashamed to show thier face to the public that they wasted $500 on this gimmick ?
maybe they are junk and those who bought them are ashamed to show thier face to the public that they wasted $500 on this gimmick ?
That is a possibility...
Go the 3:00 mark. Company rep can really let them go.
http://youtu.be/RmYmgPoSZSM
I really want to like this trigger but can't see it offering anything more than a Geissele trigger except the ability to flip the safety into third mode at about twice the price.
Or you could just buy a three position selector for $25.
DetroitChris
01-26-14, 10:35
Go the 3:00 mark. Company rep can really let them go.
http://youtu.be/RmYmgPoSZSM
Great vid! That's pretty impressive.
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hecklerxkoch
02-06-14, 09:19
I'm a little upset...I had done my homework and was waiting for the Dec 1 release date for about a month. I woke up early that Sunday to place my order and was one of the first 500 ordered....still haven't received my trigger, two and a half months later...I called them the other day to ask and the guy was telling me that they ran into an issue with their distributors selling the trigger and collecting the money before they were released. He said the distributors were crying about their customers not getting their triggers and Tac-con sent them all they needed leaving all of us in the dark to wait it out!
Now I'm waiting for mine and pretty upset at the customer service that is going on at Tac-con.
One more reason to stay with Geissele
Or you could just buy a three position selector for $25.
You mean an auto or burst selector? LOL probably the stupidest thing you could ever do is use anything mandated by NFA regs in a FCG.
ManchuMedic
02-06-14, 22:40
One more reason to stay with Geissele
What he said ^
You mean an auto or burst selector? LOL probably the stupidest thing you could ever do is use anything mandated by NFA regs in a FCG.
Yes, the point being that you can be stupid for far less money... Sarcasm doesn't convey when typing.
Gotcha. But remember, with how many new people are here, last thing you'd want to do is have a new memember or someone not in the know actually start sourcing auto parts ultimately to get boned from it. Stupidity runs rampid these days. Heck, I myself make stupid comments every now and again when I'm exhausted lol, but at least don't do stupid stuff lol.
Found this interesting video of the same fast reset with a 2 cent rubber band
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PVfwFP_RwTQ#t=0
The selector switch, when it is in the "auto" position only lets the trigger return to the reset position. You still have one trigger pull per round but since you eliminate the full travel of the trigger it's really fast.
Has anyone here purchased and tried the 3MR yet.
My LGS has them (or had them) in stock for $500.
The owner has used it and has a vid of him shooting it and its damned fast.
I dry fired his carbine and the trigger feel is good, too.
Voodoo_Man
03-15-14, 18:19
local shop is getting a bunch, when they come in I am going to "borrow" one and play with it for a bit.
CharlieDeltaJuliet
03-15-14, 20:10
I cancelled my order for one because of the performance at Shot Show. I decided to spend half as much and get the Geissele SD-3G. I thought it was going to be great, but I highly advise everyone try one before buying. I found it was no faster than a good WC, Geissele, etc.. Look at the Shot Show videos, it looked nowhere near as fast as their videos..
So am i the only one that tried one out???
I installed the trigger in my Colt LE6920. Spent 60 or so rounds in the semi mode my first day at the range. The previous trigger in this rifle was a Timney #668 4# trigger. I felt that was a fairly nice trigger. ( i have a problem with waiting and my LGS didn't have and Geisseles in stock so i got the Timeny) My first impression of the Taccon in the semi mode was that it felt a little better than the timney to me. Mainly because there was 0 take up. There is very little take up in the Timeny but next to nothing in the Taccon.
So after that i switched to "reaction mode" or what ever they call it. Right off the bat 2 to 3 round bursts were coming off very quickly and very accurately. As i tickled it a bit more 5 to 7 round bursts were coming off and cycling like a true select fire weapon in full auto. About 10 rounds was my longest burst at a very high cycle rate. You could easily get 7 to 10 rounds at a slower rate of fire though.
I like it. In semi it performs like a match grade trigger and in the other mode you can easily get accurate 2-3 round bursts without concentrating on trigger manipulation. Of course doing a full mag dump is cool to those who never had the opportunity to do so and can be fun to do every now and then, but as everyone said, it's really just a waste of ammo. I never really intended on doing full mag dumps with this thing, but having the option to basically get a trigger facilitated double tap with out thinking about it is a nice option to have. Manipulating this trigger to mimic the guys in their promotional video is a learned skill. I suppose if you're willing to invest $300 in ammo to learn; pulling off full mag dumps would likely become an on demand deployable skill.
Is it worth $500? That's a question for the individual. If you're on a budget and building and AR with what's left over after the bills are paid, i'd say no. But if you want a nice match grade trigger and also have the urge to put a slide fire on it for fun, maybe it's just what you're looking for.
I don't regret the purchase and feel that it functions as advertised. Plus i got to pop the Timney into another one of my ARs; bonus!
Absolutely and totally a huge waste of money.
If you learn to ride the reset point on your stock AR you can get off three to five round bursts as quickly, or nearly as quickly, as this trigger system.
And, no, it is still nowhere close to full auto.
Here's full auto:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iAjCrKYZcps
midSCarolina
05-05-14, 12:02
Blow $400+ on a trigger just so you can blow even more money wasting ammo.... sounds terrible
Absolutely and totally a huge waste of money.
If you learn to ride the reset point on your stock AR you can get off three to five round bursts as quickly, or nearly as quickly, as this trigger system.
And, no, it is still nowhere close to full auto.
Here's full auto:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iAjCrKYZcps
kind of off topic but what ear pro is the guy at 3:15 wearing?
It's a version of this, pretty slick stuff.
http://www.envirosafetyproducts.com/peltor-comtac-iv-hybrid-single-communication-headsets.html?gclid=CP-W6cmqlb4CFY9aMgodUVIAIA
So am i the only one that tried one out???
I installed the trigger in my Colt LE6920. Spent 60 or so rounds in the semi mode my first day at the range. The previous trigger in this rifle was a Timney #668 4# trigger. I felt that was a fairly nice trigger. ( i have a problem with waiting and my LGS didn't have and Geisseles in stock so i got the Timeny) My first impression of the Taccon in the semi mode was that it felt a little better than the timney to me. Mainly because there was 0 take up. There is very little take up in the Timeny but next to nothing in the Taccon.
So after that i switched to "reaction mode" or what ever they call it. Right off the bat 2 to 3 round bursts were coming off very quickly and very accurately. As i tickled it a bit more 5 to 7 round bursts were coming off and cycling like a true select fire weapon in full auto. About 10 rounds was my longest burst at a very high cycle rate. You could easily get 7 to 10 rounds at a slower rate of fire though.
I like it. In semi it performs like a match grade trigger and in the other mode you can easily get accurate 2-3 round bursts without concentrating on trigger manipulation. Of course doing a full mag dump is cool to those who never had the opportunity to do so and can be fun to do every now and then, but as everyone said, it's really just a waste of ammo. I never really intended on doing full mag dumps with this thing, but having the option to basically get a trigger facilitated double tap with out thinking about it is a nice option to have. Manipulating this trigger to mimic the guys in their promotional video is a learned skill. I suppose if you're willing to invest $300 in ammo to learn; pulling off full mag dumps would likely become an on demand deployable skill.
Is it worth $500? That's a question for the individual. If you're on a budget and building and AR with what's left over after the bills are paid, i'd say no. But if you want a nice match grade trigger and also have the urge to put a slide fire on it for fun, maybe it's just what you're looking for.
I don't regret the purchase and feel that it functions as advertised. Plus i got to pop the Timney into another one of my ARs; bonus!
Have you tried it with 22LR? I'm still curious about this and no one seems to have an answer.
Here's full auto:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iAjCrKYZcps
"416 upper with a POF rail" Please, what is this BS and who are these ****tards?
"416 upper with a POF rail" Please, what is this BS and who are these ****tards?
Pretty obvious if he's posting it.
CharlieDeltaJuliet
05-05-14, 15:53
Yeah, I have only seen one Hk upper like that and it was the early R&D designs Hk had made.
Absolutely and totally a huge waste of money.
If you learn to ride the reset point on your stock AR you can get off three to five round bursts as quickly, or nearly as quickly, as this trigger system.
And, no, it is still nowhere close to full auto.
Here's full auto:
That's fine if it's a total and absolute waste of money for you. I'm not what you would call a wagering enthusiast but i would be willing to wager that you haven't used this trigger or at best only spent a mag or two with it. Thats my guess because through my experience i can tell you that you are incorrect in your assumptions. I'm glad you posted that video because the first multi round burst at 3:47 is the same sounding cycle rate that i was able to achieve after running though just a hand full of magazines. My nephew popped off a 5-7 round burst the first time the rifle was in his hand. These burst don't leave any space for sound between each pop. They might not be the exact split time as a machine gun but they sound the same as the full auto bursts in your video. So much so that the range officer came out and was pissed that we didn't disclose that we would be shooting a machine gun in the range. He had to shoot the rifle himself to verify that it was in deed NOT a machine gun.
I'm not saying i can whip out that cycle rate on demand. At this point i can't. With a little more practice maybe i can; but i know the trigger is capable. Either way, that's not why i purchased this trigger in the first place.
I don't mean any disrespect because if you can manipulate a stock trigger to run at the cycle rate that i've achieved with this trigger, it is a total waste of money for you. I'm unable to do so, which is why i chose this trigger. For me, it works great and in semi mode it works awesome.
Judging with my limited experience with the trigger, this seems to be a fair review. The last mag he goes though at the very end of the video is close, but isn't as fast as the cycle rates i've seen in short bursts.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-zCMZSLZwBo#t=16
Have you tried it with 22LR? I'm still curious about this and no one seems to have an answer.
I'm not sure. I have an M&P 15-22 and a pal of mine has been bugging me to try it out. So i'll likely do it the next time out to the range.
It's an MTD= money transfer device. It transfers money from your bank account to them. If you're happy claps your hands. I have seen the trigger and it does nothing for me. Don't need simulated faux auto for my AR's.
Let's not bring this topic up again. It was beat to death before.
"416 upper with a POF rail" Please, what is this BS and who are these ****tards?
Aimtrue531
05-06-14, 08:57
Here a pretty good article some of you might want to check out, if you haven't already.
http://www.gunsamerica.com/blog/tac-cons-3mr-trigger-full-auto-fast-surgical-precision-choice-new-product-review/
BlueBlood 245
05-06-14, 14:27
I pick one up too, I was very intrigued about this trigger. So far I like it. Trigger feels great in semi, super fast in select mode. I will be trying out this trigger with a 22 upper this week hopefully. I don't think its worth $495. I do like the concept of being able to switch to auto even though it's not auto. If it shoots well with a 22 it will be great cheap fun ammo wise.
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