View Full Version : Century vz 58
alvincullumyork
11-25-13, 18:10
What are the potential problems with century built vz 58s? Are they like the wasr where if they run they will likely run forever? If they are screwed up how easy/how much does it cost to get them running? Who works on them?
Sent from my clutch hand while riding a wheelie....
Just got one last week from AIM and shot it this past weekend. Century contracts these out near as I can tell; it's well finished and solidly built. Accuracy is decent. Didn't have any function problems with my example after 60 rounds of Wolf - not a high round count I know, but it was too cold to stay out there much longer.
I doubt it would run forever as it has a US made barrel although the receiver looks well-made. No chrome lining on the bore or chamber. The safety operates in the reverse of the real Vz.58. The folding stock is very stiff, I had to use a clamp to get the button to unlock for the first time. The only recent issue I can recall was someone reported their gas block wasn't pinned in place and they had to send it back to Century who fixed it under warranty.
I wasn't too fond of spending $1000+ on a Czechpoint and they're out of stock right now, then the AIM Vz-2008 deal came along and it was too good to pass up. I don't consider it a go-to carbine though. If you had any serious issues then they would most likely be with the sights and gas block which would require drilling out some pins and hammering them back into place (assuming canted sights/gas block). I don't know of who you could send it to for repair work outside of Century.
Truth be told I'd like to build my own as kits seem to be around and come with original barrels; the only thing keeping me back is receivers aren't commonplace and I don't have a hydraulic press to populate the barrel.
What are the potential problems with century built vz 58s? Are they like the wasr where if they run they will likely run forever? If they are screwed up how easy/how much does it cost to get them running? Who works on them?
Sent from my clutch hand while riding a wheelie....
The problems with the CAI guns starts with the receiver. It gets worse from there. You either want a Czechpoint or not at all.
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?33946-Czech-Please
What are the potential problems with century built vz 58s? Are they like the wasr where if they run they will likely run forever? If they are screwed up how easy/how much does it cost to get them running? Who works on them?
The WASR is built in Romania and then converted to hicap configuration here. The odds of the Century monkeys screwing it up are much less. On the other hand, the Century VZ58's are built here by the Century monkeys. I've built several AK's (which are difficult compared to AR15's) and know enough to know that building a VZ58 is even more difficult. If they throw one together and it works it's just blind luck. I have to agree with SteyrAUG. If you want one, pay out and get an original. I have two and they run 100%.
BTW, if you want an idea of what kind of simple crap the Century monkeys can screw up, take a look at the pictures below of a Serbian O-PAP that I picked up last Friday. I went to field strip it and found that the recoil spring assembly is stuck in the bolt carrier.
http://imageshack.us/a/img39/1705/xjso.jpg
No joke. I don't even really see how this is possible, but the monkey that replaced the gas piston somehow managed to capture the recoil spring assembly in the process. No amount of tugging or twisting will allow it to come loose. I'm sure if I pulled hard enough I could get it loose, but then it wouldn't be covered under warranty. The money who installed the gas piston screwed it all the way down so there is absolutely zero wobble. Then I think he pinned or welded it from one side only.
http://imageshack.us/a/img440/3316/exu8.jpg
You can see the gas piston threads through the hole in the other side of the carrier.
http://imageshack.us/a/img834/6510/n0yq.jpg
Whoever did this piston install then must have figured that it's not acceptable to have any bit of the gas piston shoulder (right above the threads) hanging over the end of the carrier, so he ground the crap out of everything. He even took the grinder to the stem of the gas piston. There is also burr between the front sight and the slant brake that's preventing the slant brake from rotating off.
All the above was pretty simple stuff, yet they managed to screw it up. I can't imagine trusting the same people to properly assemble a VZ58. To their credit, Century did send me a call tag. The rifle went back yesterday.
The WASR is built in Romania and then converted to hicap configuration here. The odds of the Century monkeys screwing it up are much less. On the other hand, the Century VZ58's are built here by the Century monkeys. I've built several AK's (which are difficult compared to AR15's) and know enough to know that building a VZ58 is even more difficult. If they throw one together and it works it's just blind luck. I have to agree with SteyrAUG. If you want one, pay out and get an original. I have two and they run 100%.
FWIW Century contracts out their Vz2008 builds as they're supposedly too complex for in-house production. Mine is marked B&R Machine Ludlow, MA.
That's good to know. I have no idea about their reputation. It would be good to know.
I'm going to be shooting it more this weekend but my searches indicate most issues with the Vz2008 seem to be in the past. It's still Century-associated so use caution regardless.
had my vz2008 couple years back from jgsales when they had them in the mid to high $300 for a week or so. came with the cool original wood stock, sadly the finish was pretty sad and the barrel looked like my mosin nagant lands and grooves=rough. i slugged the 2008 checked out at .308, slugged my cz usa vz58 at .311, so till this day with the newer 2008s nobody had confirmed if the barrels are stil .308 as opposed to the original .311 vz58s even my vz58 military parts kit barrel slugged at .311
morbidbattlecry
12-08-13, 14:28
The newest ones from CAI seam to be very well made guns. Buy from a good dealer and have fun with it. You could waste 500 dollars on dumber things. If it had an original or chrome lined barrel i'd rate this recent batch above Czechpoint in several areas.
If it had an original or chrome lined barrel i'd rate this recent batch above Czechpoint in several areas.
What areas might those be?
morbidbattlecry
12-08-13, 15:30
What areas might those be?
Well the receivers are single stack when they are imported to the have to be opened up. CIA are build here and are double stack from the start.
Ease of switching muzzle devices
All magazines have to have US floor plate and follower to be 922 compliant.
Can't attach a bayonet without gunsmithing(if thats your thing that is)
I can't say the CIA gun is a save your life gun but you could get a lot of fun and class use out of it.
Well the receivers are single stack when they are imported to the have to be opened up. CIA are build here and are double stack from the start.
True, but I'd rather have an original VZ receiver that had to be opened up than a reverse engineered one that was double stack from the start.
Ease of switching muzzle devices
Yep.
All magazines have to have US floor plate and follower to be 922 compliant.
Yes, but it's not really a problem any more than having any other part US made.
Can't attach a bayonet without gunsmithing(if thats your thing that is)
I actually wouldn't mind having one, but oh well.
A friend of mine just got one of the Century VZ2008 rifles. We put about 400 rounds through it today. No malfunctions of any sort and we were hitting a 14" diameter target at just over 300 yards very consistently.
Well the receivers are single stack when they are imported to the have to be opened up. CIA are build here and are double stack from the start.
Ease of switching muzzle devices
All magazines have to have US floor plate and follower to be 922 compliant.
Can't attach a bayonet without gunsmithing(if thats your thing that is)
I can't say the CIA gun is a save your life gun but you could get a lot of fun and class use out of it.
Those are some really non important issues. The only one that even begins to be an actual issue is they convert the magazine well on a sporter model. Only unlike stamped WASR rifles, with the VZ58 you don't get the wonky fit and the receiver is more correctly spec'd than ANY CAI gun even if it is a double stack from the start. The design of the magazine gives you some redundancy in this area as well.
Muzzle devices? Well that is the way it is if you want a true import. But unless you plan on running suppressed it's pretty much a non issue.
Bayo lug? Did you know the German import HK91 did NOT have a bayonet lug? Does that make the Century arms G3 semi superior in any way because it does have a bayonet lug?
As for 922r the US made followers and floor plates are much more reliable than the CAI receiver, compliance parts and build. And yes there are compliance parts because they us an imported parts kit. Only instead of making a inconsequential part like a magazine floor plate one of the compliance parts, they are using US made receivers and barrels as the compliance parts.
OK - I buy that the VZ-58 is a BETTER weapon and worthy of SHTF. (I have one). The original Czech receiver and barrel (it seems that CP picks good ones) are to be preferred. But, I have questions:
- I have NOT heard bad reports lately of CAI VZ builds and most function well including accuracy. Is there really evidence that the current CAI receivers are "unreliable"? (would be good to know).
- Will the .308 bored barrels wear out too fast and how fast? They are GM 4140 as far as I know.
Thanks. Context is that CP doesn't seem to be able to field new ones and CAI is the only source and not a bad deal.
OK - I buy that the VZ-58 is a BETTER weapon and worthy of SHTF. (I have one). The original Czech receiver and barrel (it seems that CP picks good ones) are to be preferred. But, I have questions:
- I have NOT heard bad reports lately of CAI VZ builds and most function well including accuracy. Is there really evidence that the current CAI receivers are "unreliable"? (would be good to know).
- Will the .308 bored barrels wear out too fast and how fast? They are GM 4140 as far as I know.
Thanks. Context is that CP doesn't seem to be able to field new ones and CAI is the only source and not a bad deal.
Probably a question better asked on the AK Forum. I don't think you'll find many here with CAI VZ 58 rifles. But you want to make sure and view reviews objectively, because if you go to the Hi Point forum you will find people who think the Hi Point carbine is the best carbine ever made. Not saying the AK Forums are a bunch of retards or anything, but the likelihood of getting input from somebody who only owns a CAI rifle and doesn't know the difference is higher.
It's kind of like the clone owners on HKPro. Entire threads are dedicated to "getting them to run" and then the same people talk about how they are possibly even better than the German originals. They simply don't know because they have nothing to compare it against.
I would say this, if you just want a range gun and don't have high accuracy expectations and it's worth the money to you then go ahead. Not like you are going to get expelled from the forum or anything.
But what about the barrels? I used to have a CAI Yugo that did 1.5" 50 yd groups (10 rounds).
Not to go OT: I hear many people say that the recoil on a VZ is better than an AK. Not me. The VZ stings - a tad less with the mil folding stock for me, but stings a bit. The AK to me is more of a push, but mild. What is wrong? Is my VZ undersprung or are these guys all using muzzle brakes?
I don't recall my VZ58 feeling much different than a 7.62x39 AK.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iqGsz6nJt2Q
But what about the barrels? I used to have a CAI Yugo that did 1.5" 50 yd groups (10 rounds).
Not to go OT: I hear many people say that the recoil on a VZ is better than an AK. Not me. The VZ stings - a tad less with the mil folding stock for me, but stings a bit. The AK to me is more of a push, but mild. What is wrong? Is my VZ undersprung or are these guys all using muzzle brakes?
I really don't have the personal experience to comment on the barrels.
As for recoil, I find the VZ recoils more because it is generally a lighter rifle than the AK.
I don't recall my VZ58 feeling much different than a 7.62x39 AK.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iqGsz6nJt2Q
To me it seems like it. The AK stock is more in-line and the long stroke design, while it rocks the gun a tad more, it seems to BLUNT the recoil - if you look at it in terms of physics the felt force of recoil (F) operates over a shorter duration (t) in the VZ. Same impulse (momentum change), but the FORCE is greater if the time duration is shorter - this is what the quicker short piston does.
I find the straight stock worse as it bears on my cheek-bone harder. I can get my cheek-bone a tad above the bar of the folder.
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