View Full Version : Best AR Lower?
So to make it short here. Need a lower that is not to cheap but not to expensive.
I like the double star made by LAR ,good price just over a 110 bucks if you look around.
Or sell your first born and Buy the pony:D
but there are a good bit of companies out there with good products
But the first thing most will ask is what do you want to do with the weapon safe queen or SHTF Weapon
sonrider657
05-08-08, 19:41
If you are looked for a stripped lower, they are all pretty much the same, so just shop for the best price. If you want a complete lower, you need to determine what components you want.
FWIW. I just picked up a stripped Sabre lower from Grant.
It seems very nice. Nice understated roll marks, unlike the Stag I was looking at. The Stag was a little less $$ but I just can't get past the deer....
I thought about a Noveske, but couldn't convince myself to fork over the extra couple of bucks, for what appeared to be just a different roll mark.
Good luck in your search!
-RD62
I think functionally, most of the top names are comparable. I have a MEGA lower that I got because I loved the dark black teflon finish. Matched it up with a Mega upper and it looks sweet!
The Stag was a little less $$ but I just can't get past the deer....
I'm a newbie, too, so don't listen to me, but there are a lot of people (wiser than me) who say that they're all the same, so just pick the one that has a motif that you like. Really.
Ben
Go Anvil Arms.. im about to purchase their complete lower(receiver, telescopic stock, LPK. for 250.. Very nice quatlity, superb customer service and and awesome logo... just my 2 cents...
Sundevil has a tension screw built into the lower receiver to adjust for any "slop" between the upper and lower. Kind of what the "accu-wedge" plastic thing does.
They are also billet.
Failure2Stop
05-09-08, 04:58
As far as a stripped lower goes, it's pretty hard to go wrong, as long as you stay in the "known" category. I have no idea how Billy-Bob Takticool and Live Bait's lowers will match up dimensionally to a Colt.
The biggest issue you need to consider if building a lower or buying a complete lower will be the quality of the LPK. Either fork over the money for a Colt or LMT LPK. They are more expensive than the DPMS and RRA kits. It's for a reason. While you will be paying distinctly more for a Colt LPK over an LMT LPK (there is some penalty for name, after all) the parts kit will be better. With others you are getting whatever the choose to sell to you.
This also applies to complete lowers. Once again, the price difference between a Colt lower (other than the premium Colt lowers sell for due to availability and demand) and an LMT will be greater than the difference in quality, but the slight edge does go to Colt. With the rest, well, you are getting their same LPK stuffed into a lower.
Then again, you just might not care that much.
Either fork over the money for a Colt or LMT LPK. They are more expensive than the DPMS and RRA kits.
Could someone explain what Colt or LMT do to their LPK's that cause them to cost 250% as much as a Stag/RRA/DPMS LPK? Their complete carbines are only about 50% more.
Could someone explain what Colt or LMT do to their LPK's that cause them to cost 250% as much as a Stag/RRA/DPMS LPK? Their complete carbines are only about 50% more.
Marketing.
(and a little quality control along the way)
Parabellum9x19mm
05-09-08, 18:21
Marketing.
(and a little quality control along the way)
marketing.
i'm not really happy with colt's quality control right now, considering they sold me a new pistol without a firing pin return spring, which is now completely buggered up.
i know the .mil and civilian colts are two different animals, but they're both over-priced ponies.
i like LMT uppers, but lowers are all the same to me. RRA lowers and LPKs work well for me. also have double star and bushmaster lowers and they are all fine.
get whatever lower is easiest to get or cheapest. if you care about roll marks get whichever one you like.
Could someone explain what Colt or LMT do to their LPK's that cause them to cost 250% as much as a Stag/RRA/DPMS LPK? Their complete carbines are only about 50% more.
Its not about some special "treatment" or anything. What it comes down to is that they follow a spec. Most of the others do not. We install a lot of LPK's in lowers and see a lot of interesting things (as far as parts not fitting, working working with certain triggers, etc).
C4
Failure2Stop
05-10-08, 12:22
Could someone explain what Colt or LMT do to their LPK's that cause them to cost 250% as much as a Stag/RRA/DPMS LPK? Their complete carbines are only about 50% more.
They adhere to the TDP and provide you with a parts kit that should hold up it's end of the deal should you really need it.
It most definately is not marketing (unless you count word-of-mouth as "clever" marketing". When have you ever seen an ad for Colt (or LMT) LPKs, or even complete weapons? I wish everyone would stop this "Marketing" BS. There are some companies that simply do not need to advertise. Colt and LMT are two of them.
And as I said before, you simply might not care. I do, but that doesn't mean that you have to. And that's just effing peachy. ;)
What's cheap vs. expensive to you?
Complete LMT lowers seem to run about $325-340 everywhere you go.
They adhere to the TDP and provide you with a parts kit that should hold up it's end of the deal should you really need it.
But their entire carbine (LE6920) also follows the TDP and only costs about 50% more than a RRA Carbine of similar configuration. Why would the LPK cost 250% more (if it's not marketing)?
They adhere to the TDP and provide you with a parts kit that should hold up it's end of the deal should you really need it.
OK, I guess I'll ask this a different way. It is my understanding that only Colt and FN hold the TDP. If this is the case, how do we know that other companies, which produce LPK's, aren't meeting the standards of the TDP for their LPK's? I currently have no imperical data to support the contention that Colt LPK's have a qualitative difference which warrants a 250% difference in price over other manufacturer's LPK's.
When the entire weapon (which adhere's to the TDP) only costs 50% more than similar weapons which do not, I cannot understand why the LPK should cost 250% more.
OK, I guess I'll ask this a different way. It is my understanding that only Colt and FN hold the TDP. If this is the case, how do we know that other companies, which produce LPK's, aren't meeting the standards of the TDP for their LPK's? I currently have no imperical data to support the contention that Colt LPK's have a qualitative difference which warrants a 250% difference in price over other manufacturer's LPK's.
When the entire weapon (which adhere's to the TDP) only costs 50% more than similar weapons which do not, I cannot understand why the LPK should cost 250% more.
The reason why we know that other companies do not follow the TDP standard is because it costs WAY to much money to do so. This is why companies use cheaper barrel steel, do not HPT or MP test, use cheaper internals, receiver extensions, carbine buffers, etc, etc.
Companies that have no .Gov spec to follow, tend to follow the "standard" that puts the most money in their pocket.
C4
Failure2Stop
05-15-08, 15:05
When the entire weapon (which adhere's to the TDP) only costs 50% more than similar weapons which do not, I cannot understand why the LPK should cost 250% more.
I don't know if you are posing this question to justify a purchase, air an opinion, or dissuade others from buying them. I guess knowing where you are coming from might help in actually discussing the matter.
"Ownership" of the TDP is pretty much irrelevant. BCM holds no contract (that I know of at least), yet stringently adheres to the TDP. LMT does hold a Navy contract for Mk18s, to which I expect are held to TDP standard. The TDP isn't a secret, locked away in a safe from all eyes. I mean, hell, we all pretty much know the TDP, or could have the specs in a matter of seconds.
I absolutely agree that $250 for a Colt LPK is too much for my blood. I reason that the price is driven by the consumer- supply and demand. It's only worth what someone will pay for it.
If you are comparing LMT to Colt LPKs, I would have to say that, for me, the cost/benefit is simply not there to justify the Colt. If there were only two choices, say Colt and DPMS, then I would bite the bullet and go with the Colt. The cost to benefit ratio of the Colt may not be better than that of the DPMS, but the overall quality increase would be sufficient, for me at least.
I don't know if you are posing this question to justify a purchase, air an opinion, or dissuade others from buying them. I guess knowing where you are coming from might help in actually discussing the matter.
Justifying a purchase, if warranted. I've found RRA and Stag kits for $70 or less. (I haven't seen LMT LPK's advertised.) The cheapest I've found Colt LPK's for is $175. I've seen several threads indicating one should go with the Colt LPK. However, I've seen no imperical evidence to suggest the RRA or Stag LPK's do or do not meet the same specs as the Colt. Nor have I seen data indicating why the Colt should be 250% higher than RRA/Stag kits. The reason marketing was given in this thread and I suspect it is the most rational reason. Colt holds the supply low and the demand is high (for whatever reason) and therefore the price escalates. I am more than willing to pay $175 for a LPK, if the quality truely warrants it. However, nothing I've read indicates the quality is that superior to what is readily available.
So, the standards outlined in the TDP have been documented and made available to the public? Is there somewhere where we can see these with respect to the LPK's?
Justifying a purchase, if warranted. I've found RRA and Stag kits for $70 or less. (I haven't seen LMT LPK's advertised.) The cheapest I've found Colt LPK's for is $175. I've seen several threads indicating one should go with the Colt LPK. However, I've seen no imperical evidence to suggest the RRA or Stag LPK's do or do not meet the same specs as the Colt. Nor have I seen data indicating why the Colt should be 250% higher than RRA/Stag kits. The reason marketing was given in this thread and I suspect it is the most rational reason. Colt holds the supply low and the demand is high (for whatever reason) and therefore the price escalates. I am more than willing to pay $175 for a LPK, if the quality truely warrants it. However, nothing I've read indicates the quality is that superior to what is readily available.
How do the manufacturer's know what the TDP states if they do not have one? Has this information been made public at some time? I keep seeing it used as the standard, but I didn't know it was a public document.
Just like everything else, there are black market TDP's running around (have seen one and know several manufacturers that have a copy of it).
LMT LPK's are here: https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=852
C4
Just like everything else, there are black market TDP's running around (have seen one and know several manufacturers that have a copy of it).
Roger that, thanks!
LMT LPK's are here: https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=852
Dang! Even the LMT kits are over twice as much!
Roger that, thanks!
Dang! Even the LMT kits are over twice as much!
Yes they are. The real driver in the cost is the trigger group. If you can use a different trigger, then the cost is much less.
As someone has seen HUNDREDS of LPK's, LMT's are one of the best and half the price of Colt's.
C4
You cannot go wrong with LMT!
Charles Daly
05-21-08, 23:31
We've have some very nice, competitive, stripped lowers. Forged 7075-T6, hard coat anodized per mil-spec, then teflon coated, MSRP is $119 but if someone here on M4C really needs one I could let a pre-production one go for around $85. The only difference between these and production ones is the engraving. These were made before we finalized the engraving and most people wouldn't be able to tell the difference.
Actually we have about 25 of these. If someone wanted to get a GB together and handle it through just a few FFL's, I would drop the price to $80.
Actual freight costs would be additional.
I can post pics if you're interested.
You know, depending on timing I'd be interested in said buy. Can never have too many lowers...
-B
Charles Daly
05-22-08, 00:17
You know, depending on timing I'd be interested in said buy. Can never have too many lowers...
-B
I'm going to start a new thread on this subject in the Members Sales Forum.
See: CD Defense Group Buy-Stripped Lowers (https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?p=167194#post167194)
Every Colt LPK I've used has been perfect. Every pin, every spring etc. I used 1 DPMS kit, well couldn't use a DPMS LPK, the front pivot was so out of spec you could tell with your own eyes without comparing to another, too too large. the rear take down pin had excessive slop, trigger pins too small and could be pushed in and out with your finger nail or whatever without any pressure. I've used several CMT/Stag kits and about 1 in 4 have had an issue or two for me YMMV. Also you can see the difference in quality with springs ETC. they feel flimsy to me. I didn't know you could get LMT LPK's until i read it here and am still waiting for grant to get enough in. In comparison to LMT and Colt LPK's (I stripped a LMT lower once for another reason) they both are about equal in quality of materials from my eyes, I know I've never had an issue with Colt's and am really curious about LMT's QC on LPK's. So IMO I will pay the premium so I don't have to deal with crap and know I have quality innards in my lower which to me is vastly more important than the roll mark. YMMV
Mega has a great QC process and you can get a stripped lower with M4 ramps for 145, for the quality it is well worth spending a few extra pennies. I am a huge fan of Noveske so I would have to say them as well. I am guessing either one of these is out of the cheap range specified but there good stuff.
I have also heard or read that pretty much all lowers thats are in spec are the same. I really think it comes down to brand name and what you like (or what you have heard)
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