View Full Version : Cleanest Powder for 5.56 M193 Loads
Sparky5019
12-02-13, 11:50
In y'all's experience, what powder tends to be the cleanest (un suppressed) powder for loading 5.56 M193 "duplicate" loads. Currently using Reloader 10x; not bad but I know there are better alternatives (when they are available).
Thanks!
Sparky
As a comparison I only run 10X in a 700 in 221FB for 40-80 roads between cleaning and it was pretty clean. I ARs I have run Benchmark, H322, XBR 8208, TAC, 748, 2230, 4198, 4895, 4064, RL15, Varget and BLC2. Out of those for 55 gr loads I'd look at Benchmark and 2230 with the nod to BM for accurracy. Might want to look into CFE ect on some other reloading forums.
You're searching for 2 things that at my point in life/shooting/reloading, I'd consider low priority. I load a LOT of flavors of powder and do a ton of shooting. None of the major powders strike me as noticeably cleaner OR dirtier.
And at one point, m193/XM193 was my stash ammo. Now I find the entire concept of M193 a miss. M193 doesn't do anything particularly well. I'm not crapping on what you want to do, I'm just trying to give you an idea how another loader has evolved.... So... M193 isn't very accurate, it's not optimal for defense, it's no long range round, and it tears the crap out of Steel Gongs inside of 100 or so yards.
At this point in my loading, I can honestly never see me buying or loading a 55 gr FMJ ever again. I shot it for years, but have since seen the real potential of .223 with good 69 gr or heavier bullets.
The econo-load I shoot now is made with the PRVI 75 gr hollow point bullet which runs about the same trajectory as good SMKs. If you're able to load your own, I'd not short yourself by sticking to M193 forever.
You're searching for 2 things that at my point in life/shooting/reloading, I'd consider low priority. I load a LOT of flavors of powder and do a ton of shooting. None of the major powders strike me as noticeably cleaner OR dirtier.
And at one point, m193/XM193 was my stash ammo. Now I find the entire concept of M193 a miss. M193 doesn't do anything particularly well. I'm not crapping on what you want to do, I'm just trying to give you an idea how another loader has evolved.... So... M193 isn't very accurate, it's not optimal for defense, it's no long range round, and it tears the crap out of Steel Gongs inside of 100 or so yards.
At this point in my loading, I can honestly never see me buying or loading a 55 gr FMJ ever again. I shot it for years, but have since seen the real potential of .223 with good 69 gr or heavier bullets.
The econo-load I shoot now is made with the PRVI 75 gr hollow point bullet which runs about the same trajectory as good SMKs. If you're able to load your own, I'd not short yourself by sticking to M193 forever.
are you pulling these rounds and reloading with your powder?
Sparky5019
12-03-13, 16:05
You're searching for 2 things that at my point in life/shooting/reloading, I'd consider low priority. I load a LOT of flavors of powder and do a ton of shooting. None of the major powders strike me as noticeably cleaner OR dirtier.
And at one point, m193/XM193 was my stash ammo. Now I find the entire concept of M193 a miss. M193 doesn't do anything particularly well. I'm not crapping on what you want to do, I'm just trying to give you an idea how another loader has evolved.... So... M193 isn't very accurate, it's not optimal for defense, it's no long range round, and it tears the crap out of Steel Gongs inside of 100 or so yards.
At this point in my loading, I can honestly never see me buying or loading a 55 gr FMJ ever again. I shot it for years, but have since seen the real potential of .223 with good 69 gr or heavier bullets.
The econo-load I shoot now is made with the PRVI 75 gr hollow point bullet which runs about the same trajectory as good SMKs. If you're able to load your own, I'd not short yourself by sticking to M193 forever.
Point taken and I understand exactly what you're saying, but this nothing but short range competition ammo so I have no need of heavier bullets in this application as it's simply nothing but more money down the barrel. As I develop other applications, the bullets will vary accordingly.
Markm,
When you were shooting a lot of M193, what was your favorite recipe?
Thanks!
Markm,
When you were shooting a lot of M193, what was your favorite recipe?
Thanks!
I really didn't try to match m193 exactly... so my Favorite load was W748... I think it was 26.5 grains which put me 100 fps under M193, but still hotter than .223 55 gr store bought ammo. That load was a great low flash, stout blaster round. H335 will flash a lot more. Never tried CFE since it came out after I moved into heavier bullets.
Sparky5019
12-04-13, 08:37
Cool thanks! I think I'm at 23.8 of R10x and it gives me about 3050 6' from the muzzle from a 16" bbl. I've not been impressed with Hodgdon powder cleanliness over the years. I'll have to try it in this application. Thanks!
I don't know that 748 has a Clean reputation, but That load was 3100 out of a 20" barrel. A full 27.0 grains got near 3200 at 10 or so feet from the muzzle.
Sparky5019
12-04-13, 13:03
Cool, thanks! I'll give it a try when I find some 748!
Speaking of clean running.... The ONE factor I've found that makes a difference in AR Bolt Carrier Group cleanliness is appropriate gassing. When an AR is gassed just right, I don't see quite as much carbon build up on the bolt tail. And the upper receiver, under the gas tube, doesn't get that black build up.
Not sure if you're shooting for Bore cleanliness or upper receiver, but that does seem to play a factor in my experience.
Speaking of clean running.... The ONE factor I've found that makes a difference in AR Bolt Carrier Group cleanliness is appropriate gassing. When an AR is gassed just right, I don't see quite as much carbon build up on the bolt tail. And the upper receiver, under the gas tube, doesn't get that black build up.
Not sure if you're shooting for Bore cleanliness or upper receiver, but that does seem to play a factor in my experience.
+1 on the correct gassing. I have an 18" AR that has a fairly small gas port, and while it does not run Tula well in the extreme cold, it is otherwise gassed to perfection. It hardly gets dirty at all! Recoil is also very low as well. This is contrast to my 300 BLK (a pistol-gas 16" - without a doubt overgassed with supersonic ammo) that gets filthy within 30-40 rounds.
I have shot a lot of H335 (the civilian version of W748?) and it seems to run quite clean. I will be trying some IMR 8208 XBR soon too. That being said, I have reloaded 223 with Accurate, Hodgdon, and IMR powders, and I truthfully cannot tell much of a difference.The only thing that has affected it has been whether loads were "hot" enough. I have found that loads that are too low pressure tend to be very dirty, due to incomplete combustion.
I have found that loads that are too low pressure tend to be very dirty, due to incomplete combustion.
I'd bet it's more do do with the case not forming to the chamber completely and allowing blow back to leak backwards.
With a really low pressure loading, that may indeed be the case. However, even with full case obturation during firing, many powders just burn dirty at low pressure. An example of this is 300 BLK subsonic loaded with AA1680. The ejected cases clearly obturate and look well-sealed, but the bore and BCG are FILTHY. These loads per official data are making somewhere in the 26-30K psi range. When loads are upped to the 45-50k psi range, there is no smoke and the bore/BCG are MUCH cleaner despite being otherwise identical in regards to powder/primer.
I have also experienced this same property when loading for 9mm with Bullseye. It's reputation as a "dirty" powder are largely unfounded as when loaded to full 9mm pressure, it burns relatively clean.
Yeah... I found that too when I first started loading 45acp with Bullseye. I was getting nasty smokie puke and everything. This was when I was a brand new loader and of course needed to start a decent amount below max.
Sparky5019
12-05-13, 11:43
Speaking of clean running.... The ONE factor I've found that makes a difference in AR Bolt Carrier Group cleanliness is appropriate gassing. When an AR is gassed just right, I don't see quite as much carbon build up on the bolt tail. And the upper receiver, under the gas tube, doesn't get that black build up.
Not sure if you're shooting for Bore cleanliness or upper receiver, but that does seem to play a factor in my experience.
Its a BCM 14.5" middy w/ a Spring blue and an H buffer so it's GTG. Mostly concerned w/ action cleanliness. Bolt tail is not usually that bad.
Thanks!
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