View Full Version : Speer Gold Dot .223 55 gr. vs. 64 gr. for home defense?
Trying to determine which of these best fits my needs; both on Doc Roberts' list -- which I've read closely, along with running searches here and elsewhere; I've read so much, in fact, it's overwhelming and I want to narrow choices.
16", carbine length gas system.
Home defense only; barrier or outdoors shots low likelihood; neighbors and friendlies on other sides of walls a serious concern.
Speer Gold Dot .223 55 gr. #24446
Speer Gold Dot .223 64 gr. #24448
These appear a workable compromise between good target penetration and mitigating the risks of through or missed shots; I presume the 55 grain hedges in favor of the latter and the 64 grain the former?
Advice?
I personally would flip a coin or buy whichever is available since I seriously doubt your target will be able to tell the difference. Both are great choices and neither is magic.
All things equal, I pick the heavier bullet for AR defense.
Consider availability, price, POI shift from your practice ammo, etc. I'm sure either one will do just fine.
Keith
I don't notice much if any noticeable difference in POI with the Speer 64 gr vs. practice 55/62 gr ammo at 100 yds and in. I like the Speer 64 gr and it's what I use.
R600
Trying to determine which of these best fits my needs; both on Doc Roberts' list -- which I've read closely, along with running searches here and elsewhere; I've read so much, in fact, it's overwhelming and I want to narrow choices.
16", carbine length gas system.
Home defense only; barrier or outdoors shots low likelihood; neighbors and friendlies on other sides of walls a serious concern.
Speer Gold Dot .223 55 gr. #24446
Speer Gold Dot .223 64 gr. #24448
These appear a workable compromise between good target penetration and mitigating the risks of through or missed shots; I presume the 55 grain hedges in favor of the latter and the 64 grain the former?
Advice?
Both are excellent.
C4
I have the 64 laying around... but I've gone to 77 SMK after seeing what a gut grenade it is... even out of an SBR.
How does TAP or the Varmint Express do? I'd think the 55gr V-max would make for a devastating home defense round, with minimal over penetration issues.
How does TAP or the Varmint Express do? I'd think the 55gr V-max would make for a devastating home defense round, with minimal over penetration issues.In this instance, do you mean TAP Urban? I admit to being interested in the TAP Urban rounds, given their intended use -- close quarters with absolute minimization of collateral damage.
Consensus seems to be that, like varmint rounds, the TAP Urban may do the job or may just create a shallow, gory wound that doesn't penetrate enough to stop a determined threat quickly less a lucky first hit. It seems to be the .223 equivalent of using birdshot for home defense: yes, at very close ranges it'll probably work, but in terms of terminal ballistics falls short of the marks one would ordinarily want to see in a self defense round. It isn't on DocGKR's list, but the 55 and 60 grain variants seems virtually identical to Federal's 64 grain TRU (223L), which is on the list.
As fate would have it, I unexpectedly found a healthy supply of 5.56 Hornady 75 gr. BTHP TAP T2 at a good price and jumped. This is a proven round that addresses overpenetration concerns yet still delivers quality terminal performance. I'm still curious about TAP Urban, but it's hard to pass up the TAP T2 with an established record and on Doc's list.
For barrier blind work, I'm going with Speer Gold Dot 64 gr. -- available, good numbers and decent price.
I have the 64 laying around... but I've gone to 77 SMK after seeing what a gut grenade it is... even out of an SBR.Whose load do you like? I start to swim when I see the same bullet used in different configurations, from match to defensive, and wonder what the critical difference is in the loadings, if any, and does it matter.
For instance, on Doc Roberts' list -- which like any list from a qualified source should be respected but not considered immutable and unchanging -- the best recommendation if barrier isn't an issue and the rifle can stabilize it is Hornady 75 gr. OTMs, and 77 gr. Nosler OTM or SMKs. Now, I have some Hornady Match .223 in 75 gr. BTHP (#8026), just a plain old vanilla match load. But if I go by the list, seems it would be recommended as a defense load along with TAP T2, yet it's hard to imagine they're on even terms? Same, too, some Winchester .223 I have in 69 gr. Matchking (#S223M2)?
I use 5.56 55gr Gold Dots. I also have some 64gr .223, I keep my mag loaded with the 55gr's since I will not need heavier bullet, and I know how it shoots at 100 yards.
I am stocking up on the 64's though, since they are what is available. If I did not have the 5.56 55gr, I would choose the heavier ones.
The 77 gr SMK literally does it all. SBRs are more effective, long range, accuracy, etc. It took me a few years to learn this for myself.
I've read posts, but not confirmed that Roberts felt that the 77 offered a little too much penetration. I load my own using the "Mexican Match" technique. I pull down factory loaded ammo that has good, crimped and sealed primers and load my own to approximate 262 velocities.
The alternative would be buying MK 262, but BH makes it.... and I prefer a little more in the Quality department than they can deliver.
My back yard water jug tests match what Roberts is reported to have said. The SMK punched easily into 15" of water and bounced off the phone book backer I had set up. (Nosler 77 have a slightly thinner jacket, and will grenade with less penetration.
I like the idea of keeping everything in my arsenal 75-77 grains. When T2 TAP came out, it was a little impractical because it'd cost a fortune to buy 5k or so of that for stash... but slow sell off of lighter ammo and replacement with heavier ammo has me converted over almost completely.
Here's a pic of a 77 gr match and a 75 gr PRVI Hollow Point bullet. I like the 64 gr Gold dot, but going heavy match keeps me all the same on zeros and what not.
http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb201/trixiebud/aaa_zpscb56233b.jpg
markm which bullet is which in the above pic? Am getting ready to pick up some of the Prvi 75gr for accuracy testing out of two of my rifles, if things work out will pick up more to stockpile for a rainy day, have a 1/9 that I'll run a little through, but that is not a primary and is only really kept around because it was my first AR and is a good way to show people the differences of a good AR opposed to one that has had corners cut in the making.
The GD is bad ass too. But it's easier to go all 75-77 grain across the board. Perhaps you could map 62 gr SS109, but then you're stuck shooting those crappy bullets for practice. I don't know... this is just my insance rationalization. ;)
http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb201/trixiebud/AmmoandReloading/CIMG3579.jpg
markm which bullet is which in the above pic?
On the right is the 75 gr PRVI match bullet that you can sometimes get at Wideners. It's decent in the accuracy departement. 1.5 MOA most of the time for us, but others have got it to shoot better than that. I replaced my XM193 stash with some of these loaded fairly hot.
On the right is the 75 gr PRVI match bullet that you can sometimes get at Wideners. It's decent in the accuracy departement. 1.5 MOA most of the time for us, but others have got it to shoot better than that. I replaced my XM193 stash with some of these loaded fairly hot.
Impressive and thanks for the heads up. Will have to keep an eye out for them, am getting ready to gear up a reloading set up come next year.
Now will just need to see how much of POI shift I'll have to deal with when running my ACOG. At least I'll have things to play with and figure out. Keeps me busy and stops me from starting stupid projects.
I was surprised to see that the PRVI Hollowpoints openned up. They don't frag... at least out of my 11.5 that the above round was shot with... but they do open up. I'm happy to have cans of these stashed instead of M193.
I think you'll find that the PRVI bullet will work great with your COG. We shoot all of our loads with ACOGs, and there isn't any of them that are very far off out to 500+ yards.
I've Never tried the Gold dots for long range since they're too expensive to sling at gongs... but someone here hooked me up with the 64 gr GD bullets... I guess I'll have to load some up and see what they do.
I like the idea of keeping everything in my arsenal 75-77 grains. When T2 TAP came out, it was a little impractical because it'd cost a fortune to buy 5k or so of that for stash... but slow sell off of lighter ammo and replacement with heavier ammo has me converted over almost completely.Presume then you approve of 77 gr. T2 TAP? Do I dare ask your thoughts about TAP Urban?
Presume then you approve of 77 gr. T2 TAP? Do I dare ask your thoughts about TAP Urban?
T2 TAP is good stuff... just Cost and Availability prohibitive for most people. Not too familiar with the TAP Urban designation.
For what it's worth... everthing mentioned here is high class stuff. None is a bad choice... I'm just thinking from compatibility and consistency.
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