View Full Version : Sig SB-15 Initial Review
Hey all, I'm pretty bored so I thought I would post up an initial review of my impressions of the new Sig SB-15 pistol arm brace. I just bought this to go on a BCM/LMT 12.5 build with a Rock River Arms pistol buffer extension. I apologize in advance for the photos, I'm certainly no Stickman with my shitty Iphone camera. If any other pictures or opinions would help anybody please let me know! Gun so far:
http://i868.photobucket.com/albums/ab245/tzmanbball/3836A560-34B0-4BE7-B510-9C42A9575C31.jpg
As far as the gun itself goes, I like it quite a bit so far. I went with good parts and it shows. My only beef is with the RRA part (shocker) because it doesn't use a castle nut, but I'm working on getting a better solution for that.
Here's a picture of the brace itself. The rubber is very thick and rigid, its actually a bit of work to get your arm in there (why anyone would do that I don't know.) I slid the brace pretty far down onto the buffer tube so that it would catch on the knurled part of the tube and be a bit harder to slide around. The brace will not slide around on its own, and it takes a pretty good amount of force to twist it around. Because of this the length of pull is very short, this may be uncomfortable to some as the brace itself isn't very long. I would compare it to a Vltor Imod in length. I prefer to run a stock mostly collapsed on my 16" carbine, especially if I'm shooting in armor. Again, this very well could be an issue for those of you who are comfortable shooting with your stock completely extended. I find that the Sig brace is the ideal length when shooting in armor, and just shorter than I would like without.
http://i868.photobucket.com/albums/ab245/tzmanbball/D9D2C2CA-0EB3-4E8D-A7A2-6F58DE70FEE2.jpg
The picture I'm sure you all have been waiting for:
http://i868.photobucket.com/albums/ab245/tzmanbball/6B74590D-6D9A-4A2F-807F-D9BB7DF779BF.jpg
As far as the intended purpose of the brace: it's completely moronic. you can't really look down the sights, can't manipulate the weapon, and can't really use the controls. Forget about scoring good hits on target. I guess I understand the idea, but it just doesn't work. We all know what the real value of this brace is, and it functions far better in that regard.
Pros: You can skip the ATF wait, tax, and NFA paperwork and have what I would consider maybe 80% of the functionality of an SBR. It actually offers a pretty good cheek weld, if you don't mind how close in you have to tuck your carbine. Rubber is solid enough to function in the "traditional" sense. The stock is on the tube very tight, it took me and another meathead friend of mine to pull it off. I haven't tried to mortar the gun yet but I think the brace would probably do just fine. I consider myself to be stronger than most and it took an enormous amount of force to push the stock as far down as I did.
Cons: It can turn on the buffer tube because it isn't locked in at all. Sig should find some way to lock this in so it can't turn. It wouldn't be any different functionally if it went on a traditional buffer tube, but I'm sure the ATF in all their wisdom would never go for that. It is sold feeling piece of gear, but it's still rubber. You'd probably be **** out of luck if you were trying to squash somebodies head with it as opposed to a normal stock. A QD swivel also would have been nice, but I don't really expect that type of thing from Sig, especially on a product like this. Maybe they'll release a second gen of these at some point, but I kinda doubt it. Another con is that the stupid thing costs $140, more than almost every buttstock on the market, and most of your NFA tax stamp cost. You also have to pony up cash for the pistol buffer tube. The most obvious con is that the brace comes in black and not tan, which makes it infinitely less tactical.
I will continue to add my impressions to this thread as I use it more and more, I'm really hoping that it could be something that would work out long term, but we will see. As of now, I can definitely see this working for a temporary stop gap while you wait on the ATF to process your SBR paperwork.
Finally here are a couple reference pictures next to the real thing:
http://i868.photobucket.com/albums/ab245/tzmanbball/97C2885D-B80E-40E7-9B74-64794D5F1C35.jpg
http://i868.photobucket.com/albums/ab245/tzmanbball/DE32D092-7C29-44E4-A28A-F927B13CA8FD.jpg
DMViergever
12-04-13, 18:49
Ehhh...not into it. From the back the brace looks like a blown out gal's snatch and bunghole pushing out a turd.
I wanna run the piss out of it, leave it outside for 8 hours on a 100 degree day and shoot it, get it real cold and mortar it. After that I will quit laughing (as hard) at people spending 200 bucks to not have to spend 200 bucks for a tax stamp.
So are you illegal if you cheekweld it?
So are you illegal if you cheekweld it?
That I really don't know. I don't see any real way to regulate that, and the ATF did approve the product in it's current configuration, so I don't know. It's not my intention to do anything illegal or to encourage others to do anything illegal.
If this ATF says that this doesn't turn your AR-Pistol into a rifle (or SBR for that matter) then shouldering the arm brace should be legal. The same way that shouldering any pistol doesn't turn it into a rifle either.
A rifle is a rifle no matter how you shoot it. A pistol is a pistol no matter how you shoot it.
We were discussing this the other night. You cannot even remotely shoot that thing the way it was intended. I put it on my arm and felt like I was in Grindhouse Part II. I honestly don't know what the BATFE was thinking to be honest. It does seem however to work as a "faux SBR" and is definitely better than just a tube.
IG that's pretty much my thought. It's ridiculous as intended. It's definitely not an ideal setup, but it is a pretty convenient stop gap. For sure worth it to some.
Even with a liberal dusting of talc inside these are a mother to slide on. So twisting during use is really a non-factor unless you have a smaller diameter extension. As I have average length reach and like shooting NTCH I would rate it about 95% compared to say an MOE stock. Stability and cheek weld feel equal to me.
Other Pros to factor in: you can loan it out, travel out of state and sell as easily as any AR.
People do realize you don't have to slide it all the way on the tube till it is flush with the castle nut. Right?
You can leave space on the tube similar to say..... I don't know, maybe a regular stock extended one or two notches out. For better use as a brace of course.
Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk
I should have been more clear about that, you can slide the stock down as far or a little as you like.
I have a little meat in the pec area and am tall enough that the brace is a tad too short without armor to shoulder. However, the brace extends downward far enough that I can rest the bottom of it on my pec without it touching my shoulder....makes for a nice third point of contact. You can still get a cheekweld too with it in that position, albeit at the rear of the brace.
For those of us in really unfriendly states (e.g. California), this is a major improvement over a pistol tube... as a forearm stabilizing device.
I think he all know what this was really designed for. So to say it doesn’t work well as a stabilizing brace is almost a moot point. :-)
For those of us in really unfriendly states (e.g. California), this is a major improvement over a pistol tube... as a forearm stabilizing device.
Ditto. No NFA items for us here in Iowa. Been looking at an AR pistol to have on the meantime until SBRs are made legal for us peons. Not sue if the brace is something I would benefit from or not bit I'd be willing to give it a try.
Sent via Tapatalk and still using real words.
If you're stuck in a state where you can't have any NFA stuff I'd say it's well worth your money. I really don't feel much of a difference as far as the contact with my shoulder with this than a normal stock, so it's 1000% better than a pistol tube.
I think he all know what this was really designed for. So to say it doesn’t work well as a stabilizing brace is almost a moot point. :-)
I don't know what you're talking about.
Voodoo_Man
12-05-13, 15:25
This is one of those thing you just understand and never mention again. If you follow what I'm saying.
I don't know what you're talking about.
This is one of those thing you just understand and never mention again. If you follow what I'm saying.
Come on, guys. We all know it's for weight balance. With the shorter barrel of an AR pistol, they become top heavy. This brace simply adds weight to the back for balancing.
PatrioticDisorder
12-05-13, 16:04
If you're stuck in a state where you can't have any NFA stuff I'd say it's well worth your money. I really don't feel much of a difference as far as the contact with my shoulder with this than a normal stock, so it's 1000% better than a pistol tube.
Even in a non NFA ban state like FL, I can see use for one of these for a truck gun. Rifles in vehicles here is a grey area, I'd rather avoid the grey.
This is one of those thing you just understand and never mention again. If you follow what I'm saying.
That was my thought too. You get one or you don't but there is no need to talk about it.
Sent via Tapatalk
That was my thought too. You get one or you don't but there is no need to talk about it.
Sent via Tapatalk
First rule of Fight Club............
I do agree with all you guys, but before I eventually just bought one I wished there was a bit more info out there so I could see if it would really do what I wanted it to do. Hopefully this thread helps somebody make up their mind either way
I do agree with all you guys, but before I eventually just bought one I wished there was a bit more info out there so I could see if it would really do what I wanted it to do. Hopefully this thread helps somebody make up their mind either way
I'm in the exact same boat. Thank you very much for you post -- it was very useful/informative.
Boba Fett v2
12-05-13, 21:47
Hey all, I'm pretty bored so I thought I would post up an initial review of my impressions of the new Sig SB-15 pistol arm brace. I just bought this to go on a BCM/LMT 12.5 build with a Rock River Arms pistol buffer extension. I apologize in advance for the photos, I'm certainly no Stickman with my shitty Iphone camera. If any other pictures or opinions would help anybody please let me know! Gun so far:
http://i868.photobucket.com/albums/ab245/tzmanbball/3836A560-34B0-4BE7-B510-9C42A9575C31.jpg
As far as the gun itself goes, I like it quite a bit so far. I went with good parts and it shows. My only beef is with the RRA part (shocker) because it doesn't use a castle nut, but I'm working on getting a better solution for that.
Here's a picture of the brace itself. The rubber is very thick and rigid, its actually a bit of work to get your arm in there (why anyone would do that I don't know.) I slid the brace pretty far down onto the buffer tube so that it would catch on the knurled part of the tube and be a bit harder to slide around. The brace will not slide around on its own, and it takes a pretty good amount of force to twist it around. Because of this the length of pull is very short, this may be uncomfortable to some as the brace itself isn't very long. I would compare it to a Vltor Imod in length. I prefer to run a stock mostly collapsed on my 16" carbine, especially if I'm shooting in armor. Again, this very well could be an issue for those of you who are comfortable shooting with your stock completely extended. I find that the Sig brace is the ideal length when shooting in armor, and just shorter than I would like without.
http://i868.photobucket.com/albums/ab245/tzmanbball/D9D2C2CA-0EB3-4E8D-A7A2-6F58DE70FEE2.jpg
The picture I'm sure you all have been waiting for:
http://i868.photobucket.com/albums/ab245/tzmanbball/6B74590D-6D9A-4A2F-807F-D9BB7DF779BF.jpg
As far as the intended purpose of the brace: it's completely moronic. you can't really look down the sights, can't manipulate the weapon, and can't really use the controls. Forget about scoring good hits on target. I guess I understand the idea, but it just doesn't work. We all know what the real value of this brace is, and it functions far better in that regard.
Pros: You can skip the ATF wait, tax, and NFA paperwork and have what I would consider maybe 80% of the functionality of an SBR. It actually offers a pretty good cheek weld, if you don't mind how close in you have to tuck your carbine. Rubber is solid enough to function in the "traditional" sense. The stock is on the tube very tight, it took me and another meathead friend of mine to pull it off. I haven't tried to mortar the gun yet but I think the brace would probably do just fine. I consider myself to be stronger than most and it took an enormous amount of force to push the stock as far down as I did.
Cons: It can turn on the buffer tube because it isn't locked in at all. Sig should find some way to lock this in so it can't turn. It wouldn't be any different functionally if it went on a traditional buffer tube, but I'm sure the ATF in all their wisdom would never go for that. It is sold feeling piece of gear, but it's still rubber. You'd probably be **** out of luck if you were trying to squash somebodies head with it as opposed to a normal stock. A QD swivel also would have been nice, but I don't really expect that type of thing from Sig, especially on a product like this. Maybe they'll release a second gen of these at some point, but I kinda doubt it. Another con is that the stupid thing costs $140, more than almost every buttstock on the market, and most of your NFA tax stamp cost. You also have to pony up cash for the pistol buffer tube. The most obvious con is that the brace comes in black and not tan, which makes it infinitely less tactical.
I will continue to add my impressions to this thread as I use it more and more, I'm really hoping that it could be something that would work out long term, but we will see. As of now, I can definitely see this working for a temporary stop gap while you wait on the ATF to process your SBR paperwork.
Finally here are a couple reference pictures next to the real thing:
http://i868.photobucket.com/albums/ab245/tzmanbball/97C2885D-B80E-40E7-9B74-64794D5F1C35.jpg
http://i868.photobucket.com/albums/ab245/tzmanbball/DE32D092-7C29-44E4-A28A-F927B13CA8FD.jpg
I was fondling one of these at my LGS recently. Very interesting concept, and I'd be tempted to grab one for obvious reasons. I congratulate Sig on a well played firearm.
Sent from my piece of s**t phone using Tapatalk2 (which can be equally unreliable when coupled with a junk phone)
Ehhh...not into it. From the back the brace looks like a blown out gal's snatch and bunghole pushing out a turd.
I wanna run the piss out of it, leave it outside for 8 hours on a 100 degree day and shoot it, get it real cold and mortar it. After that I will quit laughing (as hard) at people spending 200 bucks to not have to spend 200 bucks for a tax stamp.
It's not the 200 bucks, it's the 15 + Month wait...It's 80% of a solid stock without the stamp and associated weight. And if you still want to SBR it, as long as you built it as a pistol FIRST, you can shoot it while you wait for the stamp. Worth $140 to me..
LowSpeed_HighDrag
12-06-13, 01:17
Even in a non NFA ban state like FL, I can see use for one of these for a truck gun. Rifles in vehicles here is a grey area, I'd rather avoid the grey.
Grey area? This thing IS the grey area for LEO's not "in the know".
Chatterbox
12-06-13, 02:41
That was my thought too. You get one or you don't but there is no need to talk about it.
Sent via Tapatalk
For those of us in really unfriendly states (e.g. California), this is a major improvement over a pistol tube... as a forearm stabilizing device.
California has its own SBR statute, which this may trigger. ATF letter may not insulate you from that.
California has its own SBR statute, which this may trigger. ATF letter may not insulate you from that.
Damn. That makes a lot of sense. Anybody have any more info to this?
PatrioticDisorder
12-06-13, 08:14
Not to hijack the thread but if someone was to purchase an AR-pistol and it had an overall length >26" would it be ok to attach a VFG?
Aimtrue531
12-06-13, 10:42
looks nice
Chatterbox
12-06-13, 11:03
Damn. That makes a lot of sense. Anybody have any more info to this?
There is not much more, as of now - I don't think there has been any cases yet relating to the brace. But the analogue would be People vs Rooney (http://law.justia.com/cases/california/caapp4th/17/1207.html), which established that in California a short barrel rifle is one that is measured less then 26" in the shortest possible configuration - not the longest, as is Federal standard. It would be relatively easy for a California judge to rule that the brace is in fact a stock.
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