View Full Version : Charter Arms Undercover
coastwatcher42
12-13-13, 10:40
I am looking for a home defense pistol for my wife. She hates autos and refuses to even fire my Glock and is terrified of my 1911. She doesn't mind small revolvers, though, as her dad had some kind of .38 that she shot quite a bit when she was a teen. I have been looking at the Charter Arms Undercover .38 Spl for her.
It will be for home defense only because, unlike my daughter, she has no interest in concealed carry. I know a .357 would have more knock-down power but she is afraid of magnum calibers. Does anyone have the Charter Arms? How is the quality and reliability? Any other suggestions? I'm an auto guy and know very little about revolvers and have only owned one in my life, a Dan Wesson .357 back in the mid-80s.
Is there a reason you're looking at Charter? They have had a checkered reputation, and the quality, compared to say a S&W or a Ruger, is not close.
I don't think there's a need to restrict yourself to snub revolvers either, if it's not going to be carried. Something heavier might be more beneficial, more comfortable for her. Just a thought. Ultimately it's what she's comfortable with.
I don't own one, but have 2 friends who've recently bought them. Both had problems. Personally, I'd spend a couple hundred more for a Smith....O.L.
I think the Ruger LCR options are worth looking at. Good quality and relatively inexpensive. I have the .22 which has a pretty heavy trigger pull, but has gone bang when I've pulled the trigger every time. They also make a .38 and .357. Why not go with the .357 so she can shoot .38/carry magnum?
I was interested in the Charter Arms route, but have heard enough bad things, and compared in hand with S&W and Ruger which both appear to be more solid options.
EDIT: sorry, saw the part about non-carry. Think a k-frame .38 would be the best home defense option for her.
coastwatcher42
12-13-13, 16:14
Is there a reason you're looking at Charter?
Mainly for nostalgia reasons. When I was growing up, I had a great uncle who had a Charter Arms AR-7 survival rifle and I thought that it was the neatest thing since sliced bread. He always kept a supply of .22 rounds on hand for when I would ride my bike over to shoot. He intended to leave it to me in his will but it was stolen in a burglary. Anyway, just the name Charter Arms brings back good memories but, if the quality isn't there, I will look elsewhere.
For Charter money you can find a used S&W K frame .38. Search the gun shows. I recently picked up a Model 10 heavy barrel 4" for $l69 plus paperwork. It wasn't a show queen but was a tight as new. Some times dealers latch onto batch's of used revolvers been dumped by security agency's. Even if you spend $300-350 you are ahead of the game. Charter has been in & out of business several times. I have an original .44 special Bulldog but will not buy any newer ones.
I've had a Charter Arms "undercover" for many years now. It was a pawn shop buy by my brother back in the late 80's. It's been my wifes night stand gun for a long time. It goes bang everytime and with a large set of pachymars suits her perfectly.
That being said, a nice used S&W K-frame would be a good choice considering Charters current reputation. The best part is your can take her to almost any gunshop and have her handle a few and see which she likes.
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If she strongly prefers a revolver and has no interest in concealed carry, a 3-4" K frame, or a similarly configured Ruger would be a great choice. Choose grips to fit, get some speed loaders, and go shooting.
brushy bill
12-14-13, 15:42
Steer well clear. Durability concerns are a frequently reported issue with these revolvers. A lifetime warranty is meaningless as the company has gone out of and back into business several times and may not be around when the warranty is needed. You can do far better. As others have mentioned, I'd go with a good used K-frame S&W.
Also look at a Ruger SP 101 with a 3 inch barrel or a S@W 60-15 with a 3 inch barrel.
brushy bill
12-14-13, 22:31
Also look at a Ruger SP 101 with a 3 inch barrel or a S@W 60-15 with a 3 inch barrel.
Actually, as Steve S points out, if it were a choice between recent S&W and a pre-MIM Ruger, I'd go with the Ruger SP101. Tell-tale sign is the hollow in the back of the trigger if you're not familiar with MIM. The hollow trigger is not the better option.
A heavier revolver will be easier to shoot (provided it still fits her hand) and a longer barrel will be ballistically more efficient, but that longer barrel will also make it easier for a bad guy to take the gun away. At "in the home" ranges, the bad guy will be close (think Tueller Drill), and that longer barrel might be a negative.
Make sure she takes some top end training. LFI-1 (now it's called MAG-40, I believe) is well worth the time and money.
walkin' trails
12-15-13, 10:18
Also look at a Ruger SP 101 with a 3 inch barrel or a S@W 60-15 with a 3 inch barrel.
Agreed! If size is a consideration, the J-frame or the Ruger are good options. The Colt D-frame was possibly the best overall ideal size for a compact revolver, but prices have gone thru the roof since they are discontinued. The thing to remember about small revolvers is that they're not that easy to shoot for a variety of reasons, and must be practiced with, at least with a regular dry fire regiment often to maintain a decent level of proficiency. It would be good for her to take a couple of classes - one basic gun handling, and the other covering practical use of such a gun for defensive purposes. She may come away with sore hands and blistered fingers after a day of class. I have run revolver transitions with my employer and seen similar results.
Also consider getting her a fairly secure way of storing a home defense gun for when she is away from home. I had to deal with a family member who stored her J- frame, unloaded in her underwear drawer years ago. The apartment staff let the cable guy in to fix the box that didn't need repair while she was on vacation and she noticed the gun gone five months later. I pressed her to make a report anyway, and she discovered it had been recovered two weeks earlier after a gang shooting. Took forever to get it back. Not that this situation applies to yours, but something for everyone to consider. Have the serial number recorded for such situations.
Also remember that speed loaders are really good to have, along with a small LED tac light.
Charter has had some good ideas over the years, but the examples I've handled are not overly robust. For durability, I don't know if they're any better than an alloy J-frame, but I'd put my money on the J.
A heavier revolver will be easier to shoot (provided it still fits her hand) and a longer barrel will be ballistically more efficient, but that longer barrel will also make it easier for a bad guy to take the gun away. At "in the home" ranges, the bad guy will be close (think Tueller Drill), and that longer barrel might be a negative.
The benefits of the 2-4" barrel outweigh the liabilities. Especially that one.
titsonritz
01-13-14, 03:07
I have been looking at the Charter Arms Undercover .38 Spl for her.
Why, don't you like her?
Find a used S&W 65 Lady Smith, she'll love it
http://www.gunshopfinder.com/smithandwesson/smithandwesson65ls.asp
Personally, I would get an S&W model 640 and keep it loaded with .357cal. The revolver is all metal and does a very good job with recoil, plus it has an internal hammer that won’t get caught up on clothing. I would also put Crimson Trace Grips on it. I have found that the laser from the CT Grips illuminate in the darkness pretty well. Not as well as a flashlight, but well enough to determine the threat. Also, bad guys do not like seeing a red dot on their chest and might just decide this is not the time or place to die.
The Crimson Trace LG 305 Extended Grip does an excellent job of cushioning and absorbing felt recoil. It is plenty big enough for her hands. It also does a good job with leverage if someone attempts to disarm your wife. This setup is also good for concealment in various places including, but not limited to her purse or even pocket carry depending on type of clothing. You can also find lots of low recoil .38cal ammunition for practicing. Not to mention that there are an infinite amount of holsters out there for a J Frame Revolver
As stated above, the J Frame Revolver is not the easiest gun to become proficient with. However, with lots of practice it is doable. That is why I recommend the Crimson Trace Laser Grips. She can practice dry firing the gun in conjunction with the laser and become proficient. The laser is a great training tool. When my wife and I have a date night, we always stop at the range first and shoot our guns before we see a movie and sit down for a nice dinner. Also if your wife is timid about guns, start her out with a .22call gun.
Personally, I would get an S&W model 640 and keep it loaded with .357cal. The revolver is all metal and does a very good job with recoil, plus it has an internal hammer that won’t get caught up on clothing. I would also put Crimson Trace Grips on it. I have found that the laser from the CT Grips illuminate in the darkness pretty well. Not as well as a flashlight, but well enough to determine the threat. Also, bad guys do not like seeing a red dot on their chest and might just decide this is not the time or place to die.
The Crimson Trace LG 305 Extended Grip does an excellent job of cushioning and absorbing felt recoil. It is plenty big enough for her hands. It also does a good job with leverage if someone attempts to disarm your wife. This setup is also good for concealment in various places including, but not limited to her purse or even pocket carry depending on type of clothing. You can also find lots of low recoil .38cal ammunition for practicing. Not to mention that there are an infinite amount of holsters out there for a J Frame Revolver
As stated above, the J Frame Revolver is not the easiest gun to become proficient with. However, with lots of practice it is doable. That is why I recommend the Crimson Trace Laser Grips. She can practice dry firing the gun in conjunction with the laser and become proficient. The laser is a great training tool. When my wife and I have a date night, we always stop at the range first and shoot our guns before we see a movie and sit down for a nice dinner. Also if your wife is timid about guns, start her out with a .22call gun.
The best .38 loads are good enough that there's no reason to load .357 and all that goes with it.
A laser is fine, but it doesn't replace a white light and doesn't provide the threat ID and discrimination needed.
OP- Where are you at with this process? What'd you guys decide?
The best .357 loads are good enough that there's no reason to load .357 and all that goes with it.
A laser is fine, but it doesn't replace a white light and doesn't provide the threat ID and discrimination needed.
OP- Where are you at with this process? What'd you guys decide?
I was not giving advice to the OP that all she needed was a Laser instead of a flashlight of some type. I was only stating that there are several good reason to have a Crimson Trace Laser if they so choose. I guess I don't understand what you are talking about reference the .357 load. I personally like the Speer Gold Dot 357 Mag (short barrel) for my Snubnose when I carry. However, I usually practice with Federal American Eagle Ammunition 38 Special 130 Grain Full Metal Jacket. To each their own I guess...
I was not giving advice to the OP that all she needed was a Laser instead of a flashlight of some type. I was only stating that there are several good reason to have a Crimson Trace Laser if they so choose.
I may have misinterpreted your comment then. Can you elaborate on this?
I have found that the laser from the CT Grips illuminate in the darkness pretty well. Not as well as a flashlight, but well enough to determine the threat.
I guess I don't understand what you are talking about reference the .357 load. I personally like the Speer Gold Dot 357 Mag (short barrel) for my Snubnose when I carry. However, I usually practice with Federal American Eagle Ammunition 38 Special 130 Grain Full Metal Jacket. To each their own I guess...
Typo, sorry about that. That should read:
The best .38 loads are good enough that there's no reason to load .357 and all that goes with it.
The Crimson Trace Laser is a great training tool. It can help with accuracy while shooting on the move, shooting in unconventional positions, aid in proper shooting techniques/trigger control and yes in low light conditions it does give a little illumination. I would never tell anyone that they do not need a flashlight if they had a laser mounted to their firearm. They are two different beasts all together. IMO...
I bought a used CA Bulldog Pug. Found out why it was for sale after shooting it. The front sight is badly off. However, I am very pleased with the .44spcl - my wife can shoot it quite comfortably and after installing a Crimson Trace grip it is plenty accurate for it's purpose. She moved on and got a Springfield XDS .45 (yay!) so the pug is becoming a safe queen.
Would not buy another - as recommended above, spend a couple hundred more and get a much better firearm.
I would like to have a dollar for every time charter has been in and out of business. Lots better out there for not to much more money!
Quick Draw
03-30-14, 16:37
Have had a Charter Arms .38 Undercover with Bulldog grips since about 1970. It has never given me any problems and is my wife's nightstand and handbag gun. Having said that I would recommend a small S&W. I have a Smith 642 in my carry rotation especially when it is hot and humid which is about 6 months of the year here.
My CA was one of the originals and I have reservations about the durability of later models. In fact I have reservations about mine if it saw heavy use which will not happen for me and likely not for your wife.
decodeddiesel
03-31-14, 00:57
S&W K/L frame. A .357 Nightguard would be ideal in this role.
I carry one of the 2 good revolvers made by this company and own one of each. For your wife at home or for carry ile me go with the "off-duty" aluminum hammerless .38 and use 125 grain HP's. I use a heavier load but the 125 will be more than enough for her tastes.
I also had to own the Son of Sam being from the area it all went down in during my younger years. The revolver is all quality, just like their .38's (most popular in sales.)
As for the rest of their revolvers and calibers go to NAF for a .22 palm and taurus/rossi have long surpassed S&W in quality for price for any other revolver.
Agreed! If size is a consideration, the J-frame or the Ruger are good options. The Colt D-frame was possibly the best overall ideal size for a compact revolver, but prices have gone thru the roof since they are discontinued. The thing to remember about small revolvers is that they're not that easy to shoot for a variety of reasons, and must be practiced with, at least with a regular dry fire regiment often to maintain a decent level of proficiency. It would be good for her to take a couple of classes - one basic gun handling, and the other covering practical use of such a gun for defensive purposes. She may come away with sore hands and blistered fingers after a day of class. I have run revolver transitions with my employer and seen similar results.
Also consider getting her a fairly secure way of storing a home defense gun for when she is away from home. I had to deal with a family member who stored her J- frame, unloaded in her underwear drawer years ago. The apartment staff let the cable guy in to fix the box that didn't need repair while she was on vacation and she noticed the gun gone five months later. I pressed her to make a report anyway, and she discovered it had been recovered two weeks earlier after a gang shooting. Took forever to get it back. Not that this situation applies to yours, but something for everyone to consider. Have the serial number recorded for such situations.
Also remember that speed loaders are really good to have, along with a small LED tac light.
Charter has had some good ideas over the years, but the examples I've handled are not overly robust. For durability, I don't know if they're any better than an alloy J-frame, but I'd put my money on the J.
My wife loves her older 3" Heavy Barreled Model 60 with adjustable sights. The SP101 will say .357 Magnum if that bothers her, even though you can shoot Specials in it. Make sure you let her try the action, both of these have stiff triggers especially new. I have had several students who were able to pull the Smith but not the Ruger trigger so try before she buys is an important consideration.
Scotter260
07-08-14, 11:05
Used 4" S&W Model 64 would be my choice if my wife would even consider a "cowboy gun". A .38 K-frame will likely hold up better than a Charter while being more pleasant to shoot than a j-frame sized revolver.
http://www.jgsales.com/smith-wesson-64-revolver,-38-special,-4-barrel,-stainless,-dao-bobbed,-vg-condition,-used,-s-w.-p-67405.html
I was young and needed a small handgun while running a retail business---bought a Charter Arms Undercover 38 for $65. brand new at a Kmart (a very long time ago)---it fired, but that was about it---spit lead EVERYWHERE upon firing---probably the worst gun I ever owned. A short time later, during the East L.A. riots (1971 or so), I was protecting my business along with two other guys who were guarding their businesses (one with a hunting pump 20 ga. shotgun, the other with a bolt-action 22lr rifle.). We were approached by a group of guys who informed us that they were going to loot and burn our stores---we in turn produced our firearms and suggested that they go elsewhere---they decided this was a great idea…
I remember two things in particular---it was good to be armed and you know, you only got five rounds and no other ammo---bad planning---this was NOT repeated for the next riot that came along...
My wife's safety doesn't get trusted to anything that says Charter Arms, Rossi or Taurus. Not to say that there isn't good examples of both manufacturers out there but Charter Arms really shouldn't be on your list for a HD gun. If you want one for nostalgic reasons as a range toy then fine, when it comes to the wife buy her a LCR or J-frame (LCR's have a better trigger in my opinion) and be done. Get lots of ammo and practice DA alot!
I've had two Charter guns and both were problematic, an undercover that I thought was absolutely fantastic looking, condition, trigger etc. Couldn't get thru a whole cylinder without a light strike. 5 different types of ammo and a full spring replacement and nada, same thing. Buyer took it back. Second was a pug in .44 spec. This gun damn near shot sideways, it must have been bent or something and was about a foot off center at 10 yds.
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