View Full Version : Worse/weakest powder in .223 or 5.56 ammo
Ok, Let see if I put this right way.
So, what .223/5.56 ammo has the worse/weakest powder? Wolf? Brown Bear? or....
I'm trying to adjust my gas block to the weakest ammo, so it will cycle and chamber any ammo that I put into it.
does this make a sense?
Thanks for the input in advance.
Ok, Let see if I put this right way.
So, what .223/5.56 ammo has the worse/weakest powder? Wolf? Brown Bear? or....
I'm trying to adjust my gas block to the weakest ammo, so it will cycle and chamber any ammo that I put into it.
does this make a sense?
Thanks for the input in advance.
I'm not totally sure I follow you but I assume you are talking about factory loaded ammo & not reloads. Adjust your gas block to reliably cycle & lock open on whatever the weakest ammo you have in your inventory. Test & verify a sample of all your brands/types. I'd even open it up an extra 1/4-1/2 turn to allow for any variances.
Are you trying to compensate for ammo you don't have??
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I'm not totally sure I follow you but I assume you are talking about factory loaded ammo & not reloads. Adjust your gas block to reliably cycle & lock open on whatever the weakest ammo you have in your inventory. Test & verify a sample of all your brands/types. I'd even open it up an extra 1/4-1/2 turn to allow for any variances.
Are you trying to compensate for ammo you don't have??
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That's what I'm trying to do.
To do this I need to find out which factory loaded ammo is the weakest? Is it Wolf, Brown Bear, or something else?
That's what I'm trying to do.
To do this I need to find out which factory loaded ammo is the weakest? Is it Wolf, Brown Bear, or something else?
I think I'm following you now. You want to pick up some weak ammo to adjust your gas block to so, in theory, it should cycle anything hotter. Correct? I don't know about Wolf or Brown Bear as I've never used any. I exclusively shoot LC ammo or my own reloads in all my ARs. I did shoot some PMC awhile back which was the weakest factory loads I've ever shot.
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I had problem cycling and not locking back on last round with Brown Bear before, but I never tried using Wolf. I guess I can try Wolf and see what happens.
Grand58742
12-14-13, 07:13
Weakest factory I've seen is Tula 55 grain. But that was also on a mid length with an H2.
tappedandtagged
12-14-13, 12:02
Grand58742 is correct. Tula is the weakest. See this link for details. Scroll down to the "gas port pressure" chart. http://www.luckygunner.com/labs/brass-vs-steel-cased-ammo/#gasportpressure
Edit: that link should take you right to the chart.
I forgot about the Tula
Thanks!
FloridaWoodsman
12-14-13, 17:43
Grand58742 is correct. Tula is the weakest. See this link for details. Scroll down to the "gas port pressure" chart. http://www.luckygunner.com/labs/brass-vs-steel-cased-ammo/#gasportpressure
Edit: that link should take you right to the chart.
They were measuring at the gas port, which might be an issue to look for if you are having cycling problems. Out of my 18" barrel, however, the bullet speed seemed comparable to other plain target ammo. I prefer cleaner ammo myself, but I have been known to buy Tula during shortages.
In my experience, none scientific as it is, is that Wolf and Tula are the two of which I have the most issues with when it comes to failing to lock back or cycle the rifle. And that is in three different rifles including a Bushy Patrolman that should if everything is held even have the least issues with it, having the largest gas port. My BCM Middy with an H buffer fails to lock back with both regularly, and have had boxes of both that would cycle the rifle, eject the spent casing, but not pick up another round from the mag. I usually buy brass cased ammo, in that it ends up being cheaper for me in the long run, but will run steel cased ammo for training purposes and for malf training.
Weakest factory I've seen is Tula 55 grain. But that was also on a mid length with an H2.
The above... I haven't yet fired any factory ammo that "felt" quite as weak as Tula. Running carbine or regular H buffers, I was always able to get it to function.
Grand58742
12-16-13, 05:40
Yes, to clarify, it still cycled the weapon, but felt noticeably weaker than the other Russian imports like the Barnaul production ammo.
Sounds like somebody needs a chronograph for Christmas...
I would not jump to the conclusion that "weak" ammo necessarily will correlate to chrono speed. That chart on LuckyGunner actually is what is most revealing. From a handloading perspective this is important - a velocity of XXX does not correlate to given gas port pressure, as this is dependent on the characteristics of the powder. An example of this can be seen when loading 300 BLK subsonic, which is much more finicky than a 5.56 NATO rifle shooting standard pressure ammo. I have used many powders that provide similar velocity, and are fairly close in burn rate, but reliability of the action cycling varies greatly.
As for a brass-cased ammo, you could also try PMC Bronze. It is not loaded very hot at all compared to most brass-cased ammo.
I think I'm safe if I use Tula ammo and Adjust gas block to reliably cycle & lock open on last round.
If Tula ammo can cycle and open on last round, I would think it will work on almost all ammo I feed into it.
Thanks for all input.
I think I'm safe if I use Tula ammo and Adjust gas block to reliably cycle & lock open on last round.
If Tula ammo can cycle and open on last round, I would think it will work on almost all ammo I feed into it.
Thanks for all input.
Of course then on the hot stuff you run inti you may be a tad overgassed. That is the devill in the details.
If I wanted to be worry free I would just drill out the port and use a standrd GB with the Tula and not worry about it. I worry about it so 90% of my AR's have adjustable blocks but then I don't shoot enough factory stuff to matter. I also load a huge number of wildcats so powder chocies and pressure curves are all over the map.
Greg
Of course then on the hot stuff you run inti you may be a tad overgassed. That is the devill in the details.
This. I would never tune a gun to work GOOD with really weak ammo. I might use doo doo ammo as a reference test, but I want the gun to run optimally with a stout load.
This. I would never tune a gun to work GOOD with really weak ammo. I might use doo doo ammo as a reference test, but I want the gun to run optimally with a stout load.
I agree with that. But if someone handed me 1000 rounds of cheap stuff I wouldn't mind turning that set screw out a tad so I could play.
Greg
I agree with that. But if someone handed me 1000 rounds of cheap stuff I wouldn't mind turning that set screw out a tad so I could play.
Greg
I have specific guns to run poop in. ;)
I have specific guns to run poop in. ;)
You have a poop gun??? Cool! :dance3:
Greg
Well... I don't literally own a 300 BLK! :O
Well... I don't literally own a 300 BLK! :O
Now that is funny! !
Greg
Heavy Metal
01-07-14, 16:05
Sounds like somebody needs a chronograph for Christmas...
Muzzle Velocity and Port Pressure are apples and oranges.
Muzzle Velocity and Port Pressure are apples and oranges.
A truer statement has never been made.
Greg
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