View Full Version : M&P 15ts Vs. Colt LE 6920
Hey guys, I'm looking at putting together another rifle. I want a 14.5" barrel w/ mid length gas system, and a long monorail from Troy. I will add optics to it later.
I recently found out SW makes one of their M&P rifles in pretty much the exact specification I am looking for.
http://www.gandrtactical.com/PDGImages/811024.jpg
Are the SW's any good?
My initial plan was to start with a Colt LE6920, put a 14.5" mid length barrel and the troy alpha rail on it and go from there. This would be more costly, but I'm assuming Colt is doing a better job with their upper/lower/LPK than SW?
Looking for some opinions, thanks in advance.
Colt > S&W every time.
FYI the TS model does in fact have a carbine length gas system, not a mid length. I found this out the hard way when I purchased one, and after calling S&W about it they confirmed that the picture is not correct.
If I was you I would look at a bcm midlength upper and go from there. Or bag the 14.5 idea and just go with a 16 so you aren't stuck with a certain muzzle device or limited to one hand guard.
Makes no sense to me to buy the Colt just to change the barrel out and put a rail on it. Buy a complete lower and get an upper built how you want.
scoutchris
12-16-13, 07:32
You can't go wrong with either one, however if I were you, I'd buy the Smith and Wesson. You won't be able to tell the difference between a 14.5 and a 16, nor will you be able to tell the difference between the carbine and mid length gas system. If you can discern a difference, and you feel as though it affects your shooting abilities more than your level of training, I would love to buy you a beer and shoot the shit. Save your money, run the gun. FWIW, I do not own a single S&W product, but do own a 6920. That said, I will undoubtedly be the minority opinion on this forum regarding Colt vs. XXXX
Is the Colt a better rifle? Maybe. But is S&W a great rifle too? Yes absolutely.
I would hands down recommend that you get the S&W. They have excellent quality control and are very well made. You won't be sorry.
In this case, there is little reason to buy the Colt.
Thanks for the input guys. I need the 14.5 because of the hallways in my place, shorter is definitely better in that regard. Who would you guys say has the better BCG?
LightningFast
12-16-13, 10:16
I need the 14.5 because of the hallways in my place
What?
What?
I need the shortest overall length I can get. I can't do an SBR due to my state's laws.
You'd be better off buying a top tier rifle in a 14.5" pinned upper and lower to start with. Else budget in the added expense to have it done $100-$150+ depending on who does it and flashhider used. I personally don't care for S&W but that really doesn't matter as I'm not the one shooting them :)
I need the 14.5 because of the hallways in my place
Pretty sure an extra inch would not be that much of a diference.
14.5 is more limiting than anything IMO, I prefer being able to have options down the road.
No complaints on the Smith but the Colt is a great rifle. I love mine. Since you are changing out so much of it, you might be better served building from the bottom up versus buying a complete rifle and then removing parts. If you do decide to get the Colt with 16.1 inch barrel and then remove it, let me know how much you want for the 16.1 Colt barrel.....
justin_247
12-16-13, 10:52
I need the 14.5 because of the hallways in my place, shorter is definitely better in that regard. Who would you guys say has the better BCG?
One inch is not going to make any difference in your house. If you truly believe that it will, then you're better off buying a handgun, since it's much shorter and far more maneuverable in your house.
The Colt has the better BCG.
RogerinTPA
12-16-13, 11:07
Thanks for the input guys. I need the 14.5 because of the hallways in my place, shorter is definitely better in that regard. Who would you guys say has the better BCG?
I think you need competent professional training from someone who did it (CQB/CQC) for a living. People have been doing it with longer barrels for a long long time. Training trumps barrel length, however... a shorter barrel, although it does help for that particular function, doesn't trump realistic competent training.
Hey guys, I'm looking at putting together another rifle. I want a 14.5" barrel w/ mid length gas system, and a long monorail from Troy. I will add optics to it later.
I recently found out SW makes one of their M&P rifles in pretty much the exact specification I am looking for.
http://www.gandrtactical.com/PDGImages/811024.jpg
Are the SW's any good?
My initial plan was to start with a Colt LE6920, put a 14.5" mid length barrel and the troy alpha rail on it and go from there. This would be more costly, but I'm assuming Colt is doing a better job with their upper/lower/LPK than SW?
Looking for some opinions, thanks in advance.
As both a S&W and Colt dealer, I will say that the S&W is very good for the money. The Colt is however superior for no other reason than having the TDP.
So it really depends on what you want.
C4
I need the shortest overall length I can get. I can't do an SBR due to my state's laws.
As others have stated, 1 inch won't matter one bit.
C4
BigDaddybluesman
12-16-13, 12:35
There are ways to make your rifle better for CQB. Grips that offer a different angle like the MOE K2 and BCM Gunfighter. The whole barrel thing, well I like the shorter barrel for feel/balance as well as every inch helps, as well as every ounce less of weight also helps. The proper tool for the job and proper training too. A BCM 14.5" upper on a quality lower will work well, the pistol grip and stock will go a long way to making the rifle/carbine better for CQB. Training trumps the weapon being used, that is 100% true. LWRC makes a very nice super short stock, I'm using a LWRC ultra short carbine stock, tube and buffer to make as short a weapon as possible without going to a SBR. You should add an optic and probably a light so make the weapon as light as possible as well as short. Since this is a dedicated gun think about what trigger you would want, type and weight of pull.
My setup is this, BCM upper, Daniel Defense M4 barrel 14.5", simple long pinned A2 flash hider, Troy bravo rail 11", BCM block, JoeBob M16 mil spec BCG. Seekins lower, Timney 4lbs trigger, Battle Arms ambi-selector, BCM gunfighter MOD3 grip, LWRC ultra compact stock(comes with extension tube, buffer, spring and stock). I should have it together in a month or so. Lucky I found a truly competent AR guy near me. All I need is a light and optic. I will decide on the best forward grip once it's together. Many of the parts I was able to save money on due to sales, the DD barrel was $199, everybody seems to want mid-length gas not the carbine, this one is carbine. I'm not saying go the same rout, I'm saying there are ways to make the rifle more CQB friendly but nothing beats proper training.
It seems a lot of people are pushing me away from the 14.5" barrel. What are the advantages of the 16"? I have all the tools necessary to add/remove muzzle devices as needed, as someone mentioned up above.
My last gun I built from scratch. It was tough to get all of the parts I wanted, so the reason I am drawn to these two in particular is that I can get them with the stock/grip I want. I know the Colt is more or less the standard, which is why I was thinking it might be a good place to start. Maybe if I go that route I'll just sell off the upper and build an upper to fit what I want.
14.5" vs 16" aside, you really should not be using an AR15 for home defense. Unless you don't care about family/kids in other rooms, or have neighbors close by...
14.5" vs 16" aside, you really should not be using an AR15 for home defense. Unless you don't care about family/kids in other rooms, or have neighbors close by...
Thank you for your opinion, that's not what this thread is about.
D.O.A.F.S.
12-16-13, 13:35
I need the shortest overall length I can get. I can't do an SBR due to my state's laws.
Am I missing something here? Over all length would be the same 14.5 or 16".
Am I missing something here? Over all length would be the same 14.5 or 16". 16 + muzzle device or 14.5 + device
It seems a lot of people are pushing me away from the 14.5" barrel. What are the advantages of the 16"? I have all the tools necessary to add/remove muzzle devices as needed, as someone mentioned up above.
You are aware that with the 14.5" you have to permanently attach the muzzle device to reach the legal limit right? To remove it most of the time it will destroy the device. I tinker too much with my firearms to ever want to deal with the hassle of having to drill out a pinned muzzle device on a 14.5" which is a huge advantage of the 16". Also the 16" middies generally run better than the 14.5".
You are aware that with the 14.5" you have to permanently attach the muzzle device to reach the legal limit right? To remove it most of the time it will destroy the device. I tinker too much with my firearms to ever want to deal with the hassle of having to drill out a pinned muzzle device on a 14.5" which is a huge advantage of the 16". Also the 16" middies generally run better than the 14.5". I'm not anticipating having to do it over the barrel's life, if I do it won't be the end of the world.
BigDaddybluesman
12-16-13, 15:43
Am I missing something here? Over all length would be the same 14.5 or 16".
That's incorrect. Your 16" barrel is always longer, add your flash hider and you are talking about close to 18" depending on your muzzle device. The 14.5 barrel with a carbine length gas tube has a different weight and balance. The overall length of the 14.5" with pinned muzzle device will come in at slightly over 16". That's almost 2 inches shorter, you can also go 13.7 and use a B.E. Meyers or Noveske KX3 to come to slightly less than 16.1". Add a rail and your had placement can be more forward than a typical carbine length handguard. Now you will have a better balanced weapon, a shorter weapon and one designed for CQB.
Your choice of ammo is important if you are worried about over penetration. I have a Mossberg 500 I am almost finished with for HD use. It's loaded with 00 and slugs right now, I also have a S&W 915 9mm and those are my first choices for HD (home defense). Although I also have a PSA 16" barrel AR15 ready. I will go to the AR right now as that is what I have the most training with, as I train more I will switch to the pump with the 9mm as a backup. I do not feel the AR is the best HD weapon, but I will also have at my disposal that AR I am building. I will also eventually acquire the proper ammo for HD in the AR. It's a learning process and the training never stops, the learning never stops and the thoughts about the best way to do something never stops.
BigDaddybluesman
12-16-13, 15:58
I'm not anticipating having to do it over the barrel's life, if I do it won't be the end of the world.
Do it right the first time, that's what I try to do. Although the things I know to be true can change as more information gets put out there.
It doesn't really matter what length your barrel is as long as you use the proper ammo. The shorter the barrel the less velocity. The less velocity the less effective standard 5.56mm ammo is, hence the need for special ammo in short barreled ARs and HD. The 14.5" barrel and gas system runs fine, the big difference is are you in a extended fire fight in a battle. Home invasion will not lead to a long protracted fire fight. A little less velocity true but how much difference is it then a 16" barrel? The original design was for a 20" barrel and that's why there is so much experimentation on the velocity and weight to get the 5.56 round to work with shorter barrels. At the distance to be used in your home it's much more about the ammo then the length of your barrel I would think......I ask though what if your home invaders are wearing some armor plates? Shot placement is always the trump card. It's about the CNS (central nervous system), if you find out about the 1986 FBI shootout those guys took a lot of hits and returned fire. I'm learning more and more about how to stop someone by putting the rounds in the best place. It might be better to put a round in the groin then center mass.....especially if you are on the ground shooting up.
BigDaddybluesman
12-16-13, 16:17
If I was in your shoes I think this is what I would buy.
http://www.gandrtactical.com/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?preadd=action&key=RECCE14-FDE
14.5" vs 16" aside, you really should not be using an AR15 for home defense. Unless you don't care about family/kids in other rooms, or have neighbors close by...
I expect more from M4.net; are we really still debating this one?
BigDaddybluesman
12-16-13, 16:47
I expect more from M4.net; are we really still debating this one?
That debate will never end. There are those who will say AR and those who will say SG. I say use what you shoot best.
I expect more from M4.net; are we really still debating this one?
For all we know this guy lives on 10,000 acres with no neighbors. Lets assume the AR platform is applicable to his situation.
justin_247
12-16-13, 17:02
That's incorrect. Your 16" barrel is always longer, add your flash hider and you are talking about close to 18" depending on your muzzle device. The 14.5 barrel with a carbine length gas tube has a different weight and balance. The overall length of the 14.5" with pinned muzzle device will come in at slightly over 16". That's almost 2 inches shorter
WRONG. You want to see the difference? Look below:
http://i609.photobucket.com/albums/tt176/jbarbaresi/Guns/IMG_1026.jpg
http://i609.photobucket.com/albums/tt176/jbarbaresi/Guns/IMG_1027.jpg
http://i609.photobucket.com/albums/tt176/jbarbaresi/Guns/IMG_1029.jpg
I don't know why people have such a hard time understanding this.
OK so you're using a different muzzle device on the longer barrel to keep the OAL down.
BigDaddybluesman
12-16-13, 17:10
WRONG. You want to see the difference? Look below:
http://i609.photobucket.com/albums/tt176/jbarbaresi/Guns/IMG_1026.jpg
http://i609.photobucket.com/albums/tt176/jbarbaresi/Guns/IMG_1027.jpg
http://i609.photobucket.com/albums/tt176/jbarbaresi/Guns/IMG_1029.jpg
I don't know why people have such a hard time understanding this.
I think you miss-understood what I said. You proved my point with your measurements. The pinned barrel will be about the same length as your 16" barrel if you remove the muzzle device. If you use a longer muzzle device on the 16" barrel like the one you have on the 14.5 the length of the 16" barrel now is closer to 18". Why am I wrong?
justin_247
12-16-13, 17:15
Irrelevant to the discussion. I've deleted this post.
BigDaddybluesman
12-16-13, 17:27
No, that's not a "shorter" muzzle device. That is the original muzzle device... the one on the 14.5" barrel is designed specifically to make it longer.
Depends on the muzzle device. If using the same muzzle device, the difference between the two is still going to be negligible.
Seriously, if you think that 1" on the end of the barrel is going to be the difference between life and death, you need to get your head checked out.
I see this is going into AR.15.com territory here. My head is fine and I never said it made that much difference. The weight and balance of a weapon with different barrel length/profile can make a difference to the individual. Ummmm this is supposed to be a place without the AR.15.com bullshit but I guess not. Same type of people that have reading comprehension issues and combative my dick is bigger than yours mentalities, when does it end? I guess never unless I stay at Lightfighter were I am outclassed, totally outclassed in fact, at least they don't talk non-sense and have attitudes. If you are full of shit they call you on it, I suggest you go there and learn not only about the AR but about the proper way to address others. And how many life and death situations have you been in? I've been in a few and I was unarmed.....
justin_247
12-16-13, 17:39
I see this is going into AR.15.com territory here. My head is fine and I never said it made that much difference. The weight and balance of a weapon with different barrel length/profile can make a difference to the individual. Ummmm this is supposed to be a place without the AR.15.com bullshit but I guess not. Same type of people that have reading comprehension issues and combative my dick is bigger than yours mentalities, when does it end? I guess never unless I stay at Lightfighter were I am outclassed, totally outclassed in fact, at least they don't talk non-sense and have attitudes. If you are full of shit they call you on it, I suggest you go there and learn not only about the AR but about the proper way to address others. And how many life and death situations have you been in? I've been in a few and I was unarmed.....
Dude, this thread is about a comparison between a Colt 6920 and a S&W M&P 15TS, not about anything else.
At issue here is the quality of the Colt 6920 vs the quality of the M&P 15TS. Questions have also arisen about the muzzle length difference when using the Vortex flash hider, and whether the BCGs are comparable.
There are several other threads on this forum where you can bring up all the other issues that you have.
BigDaddybluesman
12-16-13, 17:44
That's why I recommended the BCM to him if you backup a bit. Posters brought up some other points about the reason he is buying the rifle for HOME DEFENSE. So the whole thread went in different directions is that OK DUDE......
Same shit different web site....LOL. Change the name to AR15.com lite......boys will be boys unless they are men.
quaesitor logica
12-16-13, 20:23
Im going to start a shit slinging storm....If you are really set on a short barrel, why dont you :
1. Get a (carbine gas) complete 12" pistol upper.
2. Build a lower and stick a carbine length pistol tube on it
3.stick a SIG TAC Pistol Brace on it.
Do yourself a favor and check this out.
http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3803/11371624764_7da4c2f888_z.jpg
I am going to get ripped for suggesting it so I'm outta here:help:
http://www.buckley.af.mil/shared/media/photodb/photos/040811-F-5637B-003.jpg
NWcityguy2
12-16-13, 20:36
If 1.5" more barrel length isn't a big deal, then 1.5" less barrel length isn't a big deal either. People are jumping to unnecessary conclusions about his situations based on... what exactly? No one knows if he needs more training, if he should be using a different type on gun or if he ever even planed to change his muzzle device in the future (we know now, but not before recommendations were made about the idea).
When I look at his original question, I see this; "Should I be buying the AR than fits my needs or the AR that everyone pushes online?" Buy the AR that fits your needs. If you shoot it enough to break it you are the exception and not the rule.
Tzintzuntzan
12-16-13, 20:40
Anyone else think we've just about discovered the lock time for this thread?
Is this AR going to be your first and only AR?? If you are just starting out, there is no harm in getting a 16" AR for your first. Then, after you have shot it a while, maybe then invest in a 14.5". It would suck to be stuck with a 14.5 with a pinned muzzle device that may be difficult to sell if you end up not liking it. Good luck.
Seems to be a new know it all here boys...
Don't buy a rifle, just to switch out barrels and hand guards. It doesn't make sense financially.
Glockman1968
12-16-13, 21:08
I might be wrong here, but I don't think Colt or S&W sells a rifle with a 14.5 in. barrel. So to get there you'd need to rebarrel it or call someone like ADCO to cut it down and rethread it and so on. Not sure if you were aware of that.
Unless, of course, I've given false info in which case please ignore.
I can say that if I were to do it again, I would pick the parts and build it myself. Cost would wind up the same or less and, this part is key, you would have everything you would want in the piece when its done. I've got a DD M4 V7 and I'm in the process of "making it mine" as we speak. Cost of gun, now with cost of parts to get it where I want it.
Example. Rifle $1230.00
STR stock $95.00
A5 Vltor kit $100.00
Sprinco Green $20.00
Magpul MIAD, then BCM GFMod3 $50.00
Magpul MBUS2 sights $95.00 or close to it
BCM GF charging handle Mod4 $45.00
IWC hand stop and QD socket for MFR rail $50.00 ish
So we're at $1590 and I'm not happy by a damn sight. MFR has got to go. Trigger could stay but I want a SSA. Climbing toward $2000.00 quick, fast and in a hurry.
Point being, build that rifle once and be done with it.... for now :haha:
Glockman1968
12-16-13, 21:49
Ifin it were me, I'd start here and call the upper good. With BCG and CH Mod4 for a grand ish.
http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-14-5-Mid-Length-ELW-KMR13-p/bcm-urg-mid-14elw-kmr13.htm
AZBoneCrusher
12-16-13, 22:12
Hey guys, I'm looking at putting together another rifle. I want a 14.5" barrel w/ mid length gas system, and a long monorail from Troy. I will add optics to it later.
I recently found out SW makes one of their M&P rifles in pretty much the exact specification I am looking for.
http://www.gandrtactical.com/PDGImages/811024.jpg
Are the SW's any good?
My initial plan was to start with a Colt LE6920, put a 14.5" mid length barrel and the troy alpha rail on it and go from there. This would be more costly, but I'm assuming Colt is doing a better job with their upper/lower/LPK than SW?
Looking for some opinions, thanks in advance.
OP, I own a Colt LE6920 (2013 w/Rogers Super Stock) and have on layaway a Smith-Wesson Model
M &P 15 TS 5.56 (factory 14.5 Barrel with fixed Vortex Flash Hider). I was able to take advantage of LE/Military Discount for the M &P 15 TS delivered for $1,008 (after Smith-Wesson's Finest $100 Rebate).
Recommendation....if possible, purchase BOTH, first the Colt LE6920 (which I would keep as is, exception being the hand guards replace by free float rail system). Then purchase a M &P 15 TS or BCM Reece 14.5, Daniel Defense, etc. if budget allows ( btw, G & R Tactical have all these rifles available or able to order upon request).
Rationale, if I only have one AR on-hand, it will be the Colt. If you can afford a second....any of the previous mentioned will be fine. As stated by others, train, train and train as much as your time, ammo and funds allow. Good Luck!
Please do not spread disinformatzia. If you don't know what you are talking about, steer clear.
14.5" vs 16" aside, you really should not be using an AR15 for home defense. Unless you don't care about family/kids in other rooms, or have neighbors close by...
HardToHandle
12-16-13, 22:27
I walked through this same decision making. Had a Colt 6940, wanted a little handier second rifle.
Looked at various builds and liked the look of the S&W TS a lot, especially the Troy handguards.
In the end, I purchased a custom-made BCM 14.5" pinned lightweight upper.
My weighting:
- Could not find a deal on the S&W TS anywhere and Colt didn't make what I was looking for (to my knowledge)
- BCM has an enviable reputation, as generally does Colt and S&W based on the general errornet chatter
- 14.5" pinned length is well suited to me; I handled 20" and 14.5" barreled rifles in the military, so I know them; I already owned a 16" so I could make INFORMED decisions
- The switchable muzzle device argument holds zero interest for me; I'm interested in outcomes (downrange) not spending a $100-250 every six months in search of 1-2% improvement; buy once, cry once
- I had a shotgun and a handgun already available in my home; I chose a rifle as another home defense option
- Midlength vs. carbine length? An argument that only occur in the massive freedom and prosperity which is America
All of these rifles are creditable options. Pull the trigger and enjoy whichever option you choose, knowing that you've got a better rifle than was standard even 5-10 years in the past.
I would choose the Colt 6920 anytime over a S&W carbine. I would also stay away from a pinned 14.5" barrel.
14.5" vs 16" aside, you really should not be using an AR15 for home defense. Unless you don't care about family/kids in other rooms, or have neighbors close by...
Yup you only need a double barrel shotgun and when you hear something go bump in the night shoot two rounds out the front door. :jester:
+1 for a Colt with 16in barrel. 14.5 IMO is a hassle for really no real gain.
Colt with 16" barrel, light, sling, good SD/HD ammo, and maybe an aimpoint depending on funds. That's my vote.
malstew123
12-16-13, 23:46
My first AR was a M&P TS and I put about 2000 rounds through it (not a lot for a many on this forum). Bought it before I graduated college as I had a buddy who I shot hogs with that had a Smith AR. Wish I would have taken the time to do more research though as I really didn't know the difference between any of the manufacturers. I liked it but paid nearly what I would have for a Colt LE6920. It was a good rifle for me to cut my teeth on but I sold it after a year and bought a Colt. To me it came down to lining up pros and cons. You've got a package with the troy rail but no full auto bcg vs a rifle built within the parameters of the TDP and a full auto bcg. Right now my go to rifle has a pinned BCM upper with the DD RIS II on it. In retrospect, I would have bought a LE6920, saved up and installed the drop in rail or have gone with a BCM rifle. Ultimately the TS was a good gun, and I wouldn't mind having another one, but I don't think I would buy it over a BCM or Colt if I had an extra thousand dollars lying around.
Colt with 16" barrel, light, sling, good SD/HD ammo, and maybe an aimpoint depending on funds. That's my vote.
That's too logical. We must make it harder and more drawn out to keep this thread going for at least another 4 pages :)
NWcityguy2
12-17-13, 00:42
My first AR was a M&P TS and I put about 2000 rounds through it (not a lot for a many on this forum). Bought it before I graduated college as I had a buddy who I shot hogs with that had a Smith AR. Wish I would have taken the time to do more research though as I really didn't know the difference between any of the manufacturers. I liked it but paid nearly what I would have for a Colt LE6920. It was a good rifle for me to cut my teeth on but I sold it after a year and bought a Colt. To me it came down to lining up pros and cons. You've got a package with the troy rail but no full auto bcg vs a rifle built within the parameters of the TDP and a full auto bcg. Right now my go to rifle has a pinned BCM upper with the DD RIS II on it. In retrospect, I would have bought a LE6920, saved up and installed the drop in rail or have gone with a BCM rifle. Ultimately the TS was a good gun, and I wouldn't mind having another one, but I don't think I would buy it over a BCM or Colt if I had an extra thousand dollars lying around.
So to summerize...
You sold an AR which worked to buy another AR which worked because of stuff you read online. Now the second gun that works isn't your go to rifle because you have bought a third gun.
One day I am going to read someone on M4C say, "I bought an X brand AR before I really knew much about guns. I shot it until it wore out and replaced it with something different because my knowledge about guns increased." One day...
So to summerize...
You sold an AR which worked to buy another AR which worked because of stuff you read online. Now the second gun that works isn't your go to rifle because you have bought a third gun.
One day I am going to read someone on M4C say, "I bought an X brand AR before I really knew much about guns. I shot it until it wore out and replaced it with something different because my knowledge about guns increased." One day...
That is my story :) after getting home from my second tour in Iraq some gun salesman sold me an armalite because it was the "original AR".... Yep. Hook line and sinker. Live and learn. I now have disdain for most manufacturers.
wildcard600
12-17-13, 07:37
One day I am going to read someone on M4C say, "I bought an X brand AR before I really knew much about guns. I shot it until it wore out and replaced it with something different because my knowledge about guns increased." One day...
How about "I didn't know much about AR's but I know that most people are idiots so I came on M4C to research. After said research I purchased a BCM and never looked back."
walkin' trails
12-17-13, 07:45
As maybe I'm understanding it, the difference between a 14.5 and 16 is how the flash suppressor is secured. To be legal, overall barrel length has to be a minimum of 16 inches unless you want to register it with the ATF, and your state laws may still prohibit that. The flash hider or brake in a 14.5 is welded onto the barrel to be considered permanent so that the overall barrel length is 50-state legal. Having a FS/brake that is removable is a consideration only if you plan to change it out. Otherwise, it may not be an issue fir you.
I don't have an M&P 15, but I've never seen it heard about any major issues with them. I suspect that they may require a few hundred rounds break-in, and need to be run fairly wet to keep operating, but I've never heard of them being prone to breakage or premature wear. A guy I know who trains pretty regular at some of the name schools and teaches a little himself commented that they seemed to run surprisingly well when he'd seen them in classes. As I understand it, they're not milspec, but if they're reliable if you do your part and you aren't planning to run them to death, they're probably as much AR as many responsible folks need for HD, casual shooting, and a class once in a while. The professional grade guns are certainly worth the money to own, but you have to decide what you need. My experience with S&W is that their warranty service is top notch.
Another vote for Colt 6920 with the 16" barrel. The 1.5" is of no matter to me one way or the other, but the removable muzzle device would allow you to remove the FSB and cut down to a low pro gas block much easier. Then you can install that Troy Alpha. With the prices of 6920's right now, and Alpha rails for around $150-160, your looking at a solid rifle for cheap. In this case, you would have to live without a midlength gas system.
If not choosing between your two options, I would go BCM middy and get the entire package exactly how you want it. If you can't afford it all right now wait until you can. It will be worth the wait.
14.5" vs 16" aside, you really should not be using an AR15 for home defense. Unless you don't care about family/kids in other rooms, or have neighbors close by...
I expect more from M4.net; are we really still debating this one?
Well, did you look at his avatar? He's obviously not from around here. :p
S&W has some of the best customer service in the industry. Both will be fine.
I think the answer to your question is neither. The Colt obviously isn't in the configuration that you want, and I wouldn't consider the Smith to be on the standard of quality that a serious rifle demands. You can very easily get exactly what you want from BCM
If I have to hear that crap about shooting kids down the street when you use the AR for home defense one more time I'm going to put my head through a wall
Let's get over the home defense issue and focus on the XXX v. Yyyy issue.
NWcityguy2
12-17-13, 15:04
That is my story :) after getting home from my second tour in Iraq some gun salesman sold me an armalite because it was the "original AR".... Yep. Hook line and sinker. Live and learn. I now have disdain for most manufacturers.
Thank you.
14.5" vs 16" aside, you really should not be using an AR15 for home defense. Unless you don't care about family/kids in other rooms, or have neighbors close by...Please do not spread disinformatzia. If you don't know what you are talking about, steer clear.
You go GunZ!
NYH1!
Thanks for everyone's constructive replies. I have handguns I currently use for HD, and my brother has a BCM rifle in the next room over. Training wise I've done a 4 day rifle course. I will do more once I get another rifle. Also, no SBRs or AR pistols in NY... this is a no-fun-allowed state.
A lot of people have recommended just building exactly what I want, which I'm not opposed to, I just thought I might start with a Colt upper/lower/LPK/BCG. I've also yet to find a rifle other than the SW that has the Troy rail on it that I want, so I'm going to have to spend some money/time on whatever I buy anyways.
Maybe I'll pose a new set of questions.
BCM lower + LPK + BCG VS. Colt lower + LPK + BCG?
This was my last gun. I really liked it, and essentially want to build roughly the same thing just with higher quality components. I put it together in the aftermath of Newtown, so it was hard to get exactly what I was looking for.
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-ke4h6sf3zAw/USji9bXs6BI/AAAAAAAAHj0/8bw2fy4mC74/s912/20130222_195805.jpg
BCM vs Colt lower = personal preference.
Thanks for everyone's constructive replies. Maybe I'll pose a new set of questions.
BCM lower + LPK + BCG VS. Colt lower + LPK + BCG?
That is a tough one, and I have no first hand experience in bringing either of those options to the point of failure. But if I knew I was going to pair this lower up with a BCM middy upper, I would buy BCM lower + LPK + BCG, just for the aesthetics. Other than that I feel their differences are negligible. I have a BCM upper that is sitting on a Noveske gen 2 lower, and though it is a great rifle and a real shooter I will probably get a BCM lower to finish it off someday.
As for installing the Troy Alpha yourself, that is pretty easy and relatively inexpensive.
http://grabagun.com/colt-mfg-co-inc-le6920mpb-car-5-56-16-1-30rd.html?trk_msg=5PFA1B0R42OKV5FRBFBL2KO5D0&trk_contact=681IFD8CR4MG3HHKL9BTUR1A2S&utm_source=Listrak&utm_medium=Email&utm_term=http%3a%2f%2fgrabagun.com%2fcolt-mfg-co-inc-le6920mpb-car-5-56-16-1-30rd.html&utm_campaign=GrabAGun.com+10th+Day+of+Christmas+-+Colt+LE6920+Magpul
Colt 6920 mpb 955 if not wanting to build
3ACR_Scout
12-18-13, 09:32
I might be wrong here, but I don't think Colt or S&W sells a rifle with a 14.5 in. barrel.
FWIW, Colt produces a 6921 that is the 14.5" SBR version of the 6920. I believe they also make a 6941 and possibly other 14.5" models. I've seen several dealers on Gunbroker offering to pin the 6921s they are selling to make them non-NFA, but I believe that also requires de-registering them(?). I'm not smart on how that works.
If I really wanted a 14.5" Colt, which I'm considering doing as a replica of my Army-issued M4s, I'd buy a 14.5" Colt barrel, have it pinned, and then put it on a 6920 and sell (or store) the 16" barrel. Why go to all the trouble? Just because I'd like to have a rifle that looks as close to the ones I've used in the military as possible. The profile of the 16" barrel is a little different at the muzzle, so it would look different if I had it cut down. However, I wouldn't do all to that for a HD carbine - I'd buy a stock Colt or BCM 16" as others recommended, and shoot it a lot before deciding if I really wanted a pinned 14.5".
Dave
sinlessorrow
12-18-13, 16:01
Maybe I'll pose a new set of questions.
BCM lower + LPK + BCG VS. Colt lower + LPK + BCG?
Who ever has the cooler roll mark...Seriously.
BCM is imo = to Colt. I always go BCM because they offer more things that I prefer like the 14.5" SOCOM upper(Near impossible to find an affordable 14.5" SOCOM 6921HB from Colt).
The only change I make to BCM is I always go with the Gold extractor spring from Colt. Colt is really good when you want to get a complete rifle as their prices are very competitive($900 for a 6920), but when it comes to spare parts, or upper and lower groups Colt is just so much more expensive than BCM that I cannot justify them.
justin_247
12-18-13, 16:09
A lot of people have recommended just building exactly what I want, which I'm not opposed to, I just thought I might start with a Colt upper/lower/LPK/BCG. I've also yet to find a rifle other than the SW that has the Troy rail on it that I want, so I'm going to have to spend some money/time on whatever I buy anyways.
I know BCM has exactly the upper receiver you're looking for (14.5" pinned), except it comes with a VTAC rail. The rail is held on by three screws using the exact same method as the Troy rail (both rails are made by Troy). So just loosen the three screws to take off the VTAC handguard and then install the Troy handguard. A VTAC handguard will sell pretty quick here.
Definitely get what you want. BCM and Colt are both awesome, and you can't go wrong with either.
http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-14-5-Mid-Length-Upper-Receiver-VTAC-ALPHA-p/bcm-urg-mid-14%20vtactrx11.htm
I have owned both a S&W M&P15 and a Colt 6920. I currently own a Colt 6940.
My S&W cosmetically looked nicer than the Colt. The finish on the S&W was nicer and looked more refined.
However, in my experience, the Colt was a better gun. The Colt had a much nicer trigger than the gun. Also, the Colt ate everything that I fed to it. The S&W had problem with 5.56 NATO rounds. It had no problems feeding and firing .223 rounds, but with the 5.56 NATO rounds the guns fed and fired fine in the S&W, but the chamber was tight so if I tried to manually ejected a loaded 5.56 round in the S&W M&P 15 by pulling the charging handle back it was difficult to do. The round was stuck in the chamber. I guess the 5.56 rounds were slightly longer than the .223 Remington rounds and the bullet would engage the lands/grooves in the barrel in the M&P and get stuck.
It didn't cause a problem feeding or firing, only if I tried to clear the round manually.
I called S&W and to their credit, they paid for return shipping and when the gun arrived at the factory, the gunsmith who worked on it gave me a call and told me what he was doing. He said the gun seemed to be in spec, but he thought the chamber might be tight. He used some kind of polishing/reaming tool to polish the chamber and then he tested it with some of the ammo that I provided. When the gun returned from the factory it worked properly with the 5.56 rounds (I could manually extract the rounds) and I didn't have any problems after that.
Overall, I preferred the Colt over the S&W. I think the S&W guns are a good value, but in my experience the Colt was less finicky with its choice of ammo and it had a much lighter and smoother trigger. The S&W factory trigger was pretty bad when compared to the Colt.
I eventually sold the M&P and the 6920, but recently picked up a 6940. Like my old 6920, the 6940 has a very nice trigger, is very reliable, and is also really accurate.
If I had to pick between the two you listed, I would go with the Colt. Still, I don't think you could go wrong with either.
sinlessorrow
12-19-13, 00:18
What I do not get about S&W is that they can make a great rifle....Just see the MP4 that is actually built right, yet their civilian rifles cut corners.
I find that the 6920 eats everything reliably. Tula, Wolf, American Eagle 223, brass 556 all cycle perfectly, though I have low miles on the gun. Nothing bad to say about SW but good results from the Colt.
trackmagic
12-19-13, 01:47
I currently have an M&P15 that was my first AR. It has ran flawlessly. Just based on the shear numbers of happy customers it sounds like the Colt might have a little better QC. On occasion I hear about somebody having issues with the Smith (A friend of mine seemed to have issues with his on occasion and now owns a Colt). I may have gotten lucky and got one of the good ones.
As far as the rifle length goes, my gun is essentially stock with the exception of a BUIS, a RDS and a Magpul polymer rail section I screwed onto the M4 handgaurd to mount a flashlight (that only goes on the gun if I would potentially need it). The gun is VERY light and handles great. I think keeping the gun light and simple makes a gun better for CQB then having a 2" shorter barrel. I have friends with SBRs who normally will comment on how light my gun is.
Some of the ARs are built to stand up to machine gun use quality and some are built to stand up to bolt action use quality.
I went with the 6920, and have decided to keep the carbine barrel for a while. I ordered a Troy MRF 12" rail to swap over immediately.
Obviously not the right stock, but this is what I have modeled up so far. I modeled it with a 14.5" barrel length, which I am still toying with the idea of swapping at a later date. Right now I'm seeing that I'm going to have to figure out something different for the light, possibly a remote switch. It appears like it will be tough to actuate in the current position.
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-tyoS5TCCx18/UthNtziC16I/AAAAAAAAH8k/OhDW8DTndCA/s1152/6920.JPG
if you plan on keeping it average the cost of the extra parts or the final price. colt will hold its value more if you decide to sell it
While the M&P15TS is by no means a poor choice it is my opinion that the Colt is the better pick of the two.
when you cut the delta ring off make sure you tape up all around it. the springs are the hardest to get off in my opinion
brushy bill
01-18-14, 11:03
I've been pleased with Colt and BCM, but have not tried S&W, as I see no reason to stray from proven performers. Of the two, I prefer the BCM, but that is personal / political preference. If I were building another today, it would be BCM for these reasons and the fact you can pretty much assemble whatever configuration you want and build it as funds come available. Couldn't go wrong with either though.
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