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View Full Version : Question on Noveske and GAP AR10 Builds



Razorhunter
05-11-08, 23:46
I've always wanted to know what exactly is done to these AR10's when you order from one of these two sources?
I realize each build may differ, but aside from aside from supplying a higher quality bbl, and usually a rail system added, what is done?
I mean, IF I buy an Armalite AR10A4, and install a Noveske or Obermeyer (SP?) bbl, as well as a rail of my choice, what then would be the difference between this build, and the one I get from the two aforementioned companies? I also realize there may also be a couple of other small accessories that these companies supply, as well as a stock of my choice, (IF I choose to add one)
I'm just trying to get to the bottom of this? Thanks for any help.

chris1280
05-12-08, 21:30
Great question...I've often wondered myself. ...looking forward to seeing the replies

Wolverine93
05-12-08, 21:56
You might get a response from the guys at GAP if you post your question at www.snipershide.com.

Wolverine93

Razorhunter
05-13-08, 17:05
Ok, no takers on this one I suppose.
How about this. Does anyone know of a good Armalite dealer, preferably with the best price on an AR10A4? I would prefer a dealer who has decent stock on these. I know they are less common than an M4, but they are stocked amongst dealers.
Anyone know a good place to purchase an AR10A4? I would not prefer to purchase from a dealer who's had one sitting on the shelf for years for two reasons. One being that it wouldn't be Armalites latest updated version, and it's just always nice to not have to buy a weapon that's spent years being handled by everyone that comes in the store.
Anyone know of a good, well stocked Armalite dealer?

Coolbeans
05-17-08, 11:56
Paul, why don't you give John at Noveske or the guys at GAP a call and ask them what go's into one of their AR10 builds. Generally, custom rifle manufactures hand build guns with closer tolerances and higher grade parts. You have a greater flexibility of configuration and options. You usually get a much more dependable and accurate weapon than available from a off the rack factory gun. Of course all this comes at a higher cost, but may be off set if you have to replace a number of factory parts with the up-grades you wanted to begin with. Only you can decide if a factory AR10 or custom best fits your needs and pocket book. Best of luck and let us know how it go's.

Razorhunter
05-17-08, 12:11
Oh I'm in touch with all of those guys. John Noveske, Jeff at GAP, etc.
I know how to use a phone bro! LOL.
I just know that these guys are busy as hell all the time, and I always get good info from them, but there are constantly questions arising, and I don't want to call these guys and take up too much of their time.
This forum is great for gathering info, and allowing those guys to keep building guns at the same time, without taking up too much of their time.
I assure you though, I will be contacting them again, and getting more details if needed.
I just like to gather info from various sources when possible. The forums are great for that.
There's enough 5.56 talk around here.
I've always wanted there to be MORE discussion in the Big Bore Forum here....

Coolbeans
05-17-08, 13:44
10-4 Paul, +1 For the Noveske Leonidas.

was21
06-05-08, 15:15
Paul
George and the crew at GAP have done a couple for me.
I don't think there are any great secrets other than the meticulous fitting/chambering/and selection of the right quality parts appropriate for the particular build. I know that GAP's chambers are spot on. George also has a way of fittting the upper and lowers for an excellent fit. He also fits the bolts properly so that all lugs are bearing evenly.
FWIW
wes

Razorhunter
06-06-08, 17:00
Anyone here have an idea on what the accuracy difference will be between a Noveske AR10 upper and a GAP upper?
I know the Noveske uses a 1:10 twist w/polygonal rifling, and I don't think anyone else uses this unique setup in a 7.62 bbl.
I know the Armalite SASS upper is a 1:11.25 bbl, and I think most other 7.62 AR10 bbls use a 1:11 or 1:12 twist? right?
Will I see an accuracy difference between a Noveske AR10 upper, and a GAP upper, or other uppers with different twist rates?
I know ammo choice can of course affect accuracy when it comes to bbl twist rates, but this will of course a typical 20-21" 7.62 SASS rifle, and I will use various quality ammo, until I find what I like best.
What bbl twist rate do you guys like in a 20"-21" 7.62 AR10??
Still trying to decide between a GAP or Noveske AR10 upper for my Armalite lower. Just want to make the right decision, because I know that the 1:11 twist in 6.8 is becoming much more desireable, than the 1:10 which Noveske also uses in his 6.8 bbls.
SO, I want to make the right decision with my 7.62 AR10 upper order.
What say guys?
Thanks guys.

was21
06-07-08, 16:13
Paul
My GAP Ar10 has a Schneider 1-11 4R and is an honest 1/2 moa rifle ;not quite as good as my GAP bolt gun. George has the AR10 figured out and knows the specs he needs from the barrel makers to really make them shoot. They will most always be a little down on the velocity vs. a bolt gun due to being a gas gun. This is where the polygonal rifling that Noveske uses might make up the difference as it tends to make a better seal with the bullet. This has been my experience with my poly barrels in the past [not one of Noveske's].

My 1-11's have stabilised bullets up to 200gr in my testing[haven't tried 220's, but that is what the win mag is for!] so 150's and175's are well within a stable range. IMHO

The only other factor might be that the polgonals are a little easier to clean, although my 4R's and 5R's don't foul either and are a piece of cake in that department also.

I doubt you will see an accuracy difference in either you choose but do yourself a favor if you aren't going to reload and try the Blackhills 175 SMK load.
FWIW
wes

Dave L.
06-07-08, 16:18
Paul,
Did you find out the wait times for the guns you are interested in? I have heard GAP taking up to 4 months.
George built my bolt gun in about a month and a half but I also "needed" it for formal sniper training.
I'm just saying, are you willing to wait extra months for a 1/10moa gain in accuracy- if they are even that far apart?

Razorhunter
06-07-08, 18:22
Well the current wait times from Noveske AND GAP for an AR10 upper, is "12 weeks". BOTH companies quoted me this ETA just last week.
Insane.

I assume you are talking about a "1/10 gain in accuracy", when compared to one of Armalites bbls? If not, then what are you comparing to?
Armalite does not have an SASS rifle available for a LONG time either.
They even told me that it will be at least a full year until they are selling complete SASS uppers (or any other upper for that matter).
I've got a complete Armalite lower, brand new, and ready for an upper.
I've also got two stripped uppers, both NIB as well.
SO, I was going to have Noveske or GAP build an upper for me.


GAP says they will gladly build off of my QUALITY Armalite upper, and use any other quality parts I send. They will ALSO build my AR10 upper to MY SPECS, with bbl length of MY CHOICE, and I think they will even cut a chamber of my choice.
HOWEVER, Noveske on the other hand, has just informed me that they will NOT build off of my supplied Armalite upper. I wanted to use my supplied upper, because I KNOW it fits my lower tightly, and I will not have to pay $100 to have the takedown lugs reamed and bushed.
Noveske has also unfortunately said they will ONLY build me a 21" bbl. I wanted a 20", but they will only offer me a 21", according to Sheri from Noveske, just last week.
Sad, because I wanted to have Noveske build me this upper, but it looks like they'll be losing some business due to these stipulations. I guess they don't really need my $1000+ of business.
I realize I will have to wait for an upper from a lot of these companies, but I just wish SOMEONE had a quality upper in stock, and I wish some of these companies had enough quality manpower to build uppers at a decent rate of time.
Sure, I don't want to sacrifice quality for quick turnaround, but we all know how long it takes to build an upper, and if you are 12 weeks+ behind, you might want to start thinking about bringing on some additional qualified help.
I don't know. Maybe it's just that any time I've ever had to wait for WEEKS on an item, it just NEVER panned out properly. Things such as that usually take DOUBLE or even triple the amount of time.
That's just been my personal experience though. I'm certainly not implying that past experiences will result in the same experience from another company.
We'll see what happens. I just hope that after waiting this long on a lousy upper, that I will be happy, and will have made the right decision.
I will really be disappointed if I order an upper and it has a loose sloppy fit on my lower, and I have to send the entire gun back off for who knows how long, and pay $100, just to get the receivers to fit well.
On the brighter side of things, at least I finally do have an AR10 in the works!
Thanks for all the info guys. It really helps me make my decisions here. Keep em coming fellas!

WallaS
06-09-08, 00:52
I had GAP cut down my AR10T barrel and refinifhed it black. Super fast turn around and great work. They also attached a Badger Ordnance bolt handle on a Rem 700 bolt for me at the same time. They threw in a nice shirt (knew my size and all ......... freaky) and the fit and finish was top notch and work was very professional.

WallaS

wild_wild_wes
08-23-08, 15:19
GAP says they will gladly build off of my QUALITY Armalite upper, and use any other quality parts I send.

HOWEVER, Noveske on the other hand, has just informed me that they will NOT build off of my supplied Armalite upper. I wanted to use my supplied upper, because I KNOW it fits my lower tightly, and I will not have to pay $100 to have the takedown lugs reamed and bushed.

This confuses me. How many companies are forging different Armalite-compatible uppers?

I assumed they were all coming from the same maker, and just branded by the sellers.

Razorhunter
08-23-08, 17:47
I did not state that Noveske is forging their own Armalite compatible uppers. Nor did I state if they are buying them from Armalite. I do not know what they are currently doing. Nowhere in this thread did I state the source of Noveske receivers.

?????

SHIVAN
08-23-08, 21:00
Paul, did you move in one direction, or the other?

Noveske pins and set screws the gas blocks and offers 12.5", 14.5", 18" and 21" AR-10 barrels using his M118LR-based chamber - usually they run around $500+. They also include a $345 free float rail.

Not sure why they would tell you they would only do a 21".

wild_wild_wes
08-24-08, 00:40
I did not say that you stated that Noveske was forging their own uppers.

But the uppers are coming from somewhere, and you said Novske only wants to use "their" uppers.

So, at some point they became "Noveske" uppers, regardless of their origin.

I was seeking clarification of this point, and so I Quoted your own words to do this. That is all I was after.

!!!!!

LBG375
08-25-08, 19:31
I have both a GAP and Noveske (built by MSTN) AR15 Uppers. They are both great, but I have better accuracy out of my GAP upper with MK262 and the same optic. The Schneider barrel on my GAP is a sub 1/2 MOA shooter. The best group I've gotten out of my Noveske is between 1/2 to 3/4 moa. I plan on using GA Precision when I get around to building my precision AR-10.

Razorhunter
08-25-08, 20:01
Wes,
It's all good bro. No biggie.

Guys, I have had some trouble with my modem lately, or something, and cruising the net has been difficult at times, so posting has been slightly problematic the last few days.

Anyhow,

Shivan,
I actually went with the Noveske, and yes, you are correct, they PIN their gas blocks, AND offer the sweetest AR10 rail I've EVER put my hands on.
You are also correct that they offer all of those bbl lengths you mentioned above.
However, when I inquired about a 20" bbl, they said they only offered a 21" (meaning that was the only size in my requested range that they offered). I think John has stated that the 21" is better for 1000yd capability anyhow.
On a seperate note, I have actually just put up that unfired AR10 in the F/S forums, as I have recently had a few projects come up I need cash for. It REALLY hurt me to do it, but I figured I would put it up for sale while it was still NIB and unfired. I just put it up for sale, and I already miss it.
Thanks guys.