View Full Version : Wolf 115 grain 9mm, anyone shoot it?
Decent ammo? Hot? Cold? Any problems you've noticed?
tiger seven
05-12-08, 06:27
I've put a few thousand rounds of it through my G19. In my experience it's typical Wolf, which means that it's a fairly mild load, relatively dirty, but it works reliably every time I squeeze the trigger. No duds, no squibs, no out-of-spec rounds and no problems of any sort.
Derek
RogerinTPA
05-12-08, 09:38
I've fired 1500 rounds so far of the Military Classic. It is dirty but fairly accurate. As accurate as most 9mm out there. It's the most economical ammo for practice these days. No FTF's or any other ammo related malfunctions so far.
Now for a shameless plug for CT, I mounted a crimson trace palm swell on my M&P9c and got fantastic results. It's a fantastic training aid. I now practice with and without the CT, which helped me a great deal in trigger control and refining my shooting technique.
The Archangel
05-14-08, 11:02
Shot a case (1000) for a pistol course on my G19. Not one single FTF. At $169 Shipped / Case, that's as good as it gets.
I've shot 2 or 3 cases in my HK94 clone, good stuff for the money, it's my fallback if I can't find S&B. Jeff
Typical Wolf as mentioned earlier. Not hot, but goes bang every time. Great training ammo(I always feel guilty about leaving brass behind, no steel cases though.)
I am sure someone has an uncle who heard of someone's friend who had a catastrophic carrier or transferred the problem to AR15 reliability by just being within 5' of Wolf ammo.
I've put 2k of Military Classic through my G19 in the past year. Can't really speak for the accuracy as I'm terrible with a handgun, but it does function reliably and consistently.
Firecop203
05-17-08, 19:21
I have shot several thousand rounds of the stuff in my glocks and subguns. No problems whatsoever.
Steve in PA
05-17-08, 21:58
I am sure someone has an uncle who heard of someone's friend who had a catastrophic carrier or transferred the problem to AR15 reliability by just being within 5' of Wolf ammo.
LOL........now that's funny!
dialM4murder
06-02-08, 11:14
I'm curious if the steel case does in fact cause the extractor to wear faster. Either on pistols or the AR platform.
I have spare extractors so I don't really care either way.
However, the Wolf 9mm shoots better in my G17 than anything else I've tried, so I like it.
I'm curious if the steel case does in fact cause the extractor to wear faster. Either on pistols or the AR platform.
Shouldn't on a glock as the case rim slides under the extractor during cycling, it doesn't snap over the rim. An AR doesn't work that way, but the wear is probably negligible.
Shouldn't on a glock as the case rim slides under the extractor during cycling, it doesn't snap over the rim.
It's still steel-to-steel contact when it extracts, though, which means there is greater wear than brass-to-steel or aluminum-to-steel contact. It's true for pretty much any semiauto handgun, they're all designed to feed the round to the breechface without the extractor having to spring around the rim.
Now whether the "greater wear" is half a percent more or 50% more, I don't think anyone knows. If you want to use steel cased ammo, just remove your extractor from time to time and inspect it along with your feed ramp and chamber.
Good point.
But you don't have to sell me. I wouldn't shoot that shit no matter how cheap it was!! :p
But have you tried it? And what would you do if you found it shot better than your usual practice load?
Hell with today’s ammo prices, if it gives even close to a decent group I'd say go for it. What's an extractor going to run you, compared to the savings you will get on a couple of thousand rounds, when purchasing Wolf over some of the other inflated prices...
What's an extractor going to run you, compared to the savings you will get on a couple of thousand rounds, when purchasing Wolf over some of the other inflated prices...
What is your life worth, compared to the savings you will get on a couple thousand rounds, if the extractor fails when you need it?
(fwiw, in my experience, extractor damage is not the reason I stay away from Wolf ... poor QC, squibs, unacceptable accuracy, etc. are all apparent, at least in the pistol ammo)
I don't really buy the "what's your life worth" thing. If you're shooting a Glock, I prefer to have one "shooting" gun and one "carrying" gun setup identically anyway. Make sure to function-test the carrying gun from time to time and you should be good.
David Thomas
08-24-08, 19:54
Wolf primers are much harder than Winchester, Federal, and CCI primers. If you have played doctor with you Glock and reduced the striker spring weight you could have a failure to fire. I do not view this as a problem with the ammo, since it will fire if it is loaded again and re-struck or if shot out of a factory Glock. However, it is something that Glock shooters, who change out the factory springs to lighter springs, should keep in mind.
What is your life worth, compared to the savings you will get on a couple thousand rounds, if the extractor fails when you need it?
(fwiw, in my experience, extractor damage is not the reason I stay away from Wolf ... poor QC, squibs, unacceptable accuracy, etc. are all apparent, at least in the pistol ammo)
I don’t buy into that crap at all. I own several long guns as well as handguns all set up the same. Many are just used for training others for social work. The savings by buying Wolf allows me to train more thus preparing me if that incident should it ever arise. I know of LEO agency’s that only use Wolf for training right now due to cost. Should they just quite training all together? I don't believe it should be used for anything but training though.
Quite frankly why stop with extractor failure, my bolt could break, my mag could crap out at that exact moment causing me valuable seconds, or good ol’ Mr. Murphy could just plain screw me. There are so many variables but in the end, when buying in large quantity, I can get more Wolf and more trigger time. Personally I think that will help me more.
To each his own, but I love the guys that won’t buy Wolf, leaves more for me. That and I have several weapons that it shoots very accurate in.
Whether you "buy into it" doesn't really change the fact that in the eight years I worked at two major gun companies, Wolf ammo was constantly seen as a contributory factor to all sorts of failures and breakages. Or that I have personally witnessed more squibs with Wolf than any other brand of ammo, including commercial reloads.
Again, I have zero experience with their carbine/rifle ammo. But their pistol ammo has never been up to the standards of domestically produced "fodder" ammo from the Big Three such as white box, Blazer, UMC, etc.
As for cost, here's Natchez's prices for Blazer (aluminum) vs. Wolf:
9mm: $7.99 vs. $7.95
40 S&W: $13.39 vs. $12.40
45 Auto: $13.99 vs. $13.91
Except in the .40 I don't think anyone can say the difference is even a blip on the checkbook radar. Even in .40, it's a buck a box. If someone can afford "several long guns as well as handguns all set up the same" then it's hard for me to imagine that $20 per case over the course of a year is really going to impact one's training regimen.
You want to shoot Wolf in your guns, hey, more power to you. If they sent me 100,000 rounds for free I'd shoot it. But pretending that its reputation is undeserved is just silly. There are other, more proven options on the market for almost the exact same price ... ammo that is made in the USA by companies that are hard at work supporting our war effort, too, if that matters to anyone.
Natchez often has outstanding prices on Blazer. In fact, they sometimes have better prices than I've been quoted buying direct from ATK!
Whether you "buy into it" doesn't really change the fact that in the eight years I worked at two major gun companies, Wolf ammo was constantly seen as a contributory factor to all sorts of failures and breakages. Or that I have personally witnessed more squibs with Wolf than any other brand of ammo, including commercial reloads.
Again, I have zero experience with their carbine/rifle ammo. But their pistol ammo has never been up to the standards of domestically produced "fodder" ammo from the Big Three such as white box, Blazer, UMC, etc.
As for cost, here's Natchez's prices for Blazer (aluminum) vs. Wolf:
9mm: $7.99 vs. $7.95
40 S&W: $13.39 vs. $12.40
45 Auto: $13.99 vs. $13.91
Except in the .40 I don't think anyone can say the difference is even a blip on the checkbook radar. Even in .40, it's a buck a box. If someone can afford "several long guns as well as handguns all set up the same" then it's hard for me to imagine that $20 per case over the course of a year is really going to impact one's training regimen.
You want to shoot Wolf in your guns, hey, more power to you. If they sent me 100,000 rounds for free I'd shoot it. But pretending that its reputation is undeserved is just silly. There are other, more proven options on the market for almost the exact same price ... ammo that is made in the USA by companies that are hard at work supporting our war effort, too, if that matters to anyone.
I’ve never worked for a gun company but have seen many thousands of rounds fired of Wolf. I can honestly say I’ve personally never seen a malfunction that I haven’t seen with other ammo. I have not seen as many weapons as you though, I’m only at the operator level.
Most of the rounds fired have been through carbines. There have also been quite a few through handguns but we’re talking Glocks. Mainly the 9mm/.40 flavor. I personally have found UMC to be no cleaner and less accurate. Just my experience. The only malfunctions I have experienced with my latest 17 have been with Blazer… go figure.
As far as pricing, I haven’t shopped it on line but locally .223 is $220 a case. With LEO discounts it puts it at that price out the door. The next closest price is $350 for S&B (again these are local prices, not shipped). At 5K that’s a savings of $650. It adds up pretty quickly and 5K is less than a years training rounds. Pistol rounds are roughly $3 dollars a box cheaper. Again after many thousands of rounds it does make a difference, for some of us. If ammo prices are not hitting you as hard as some of us, great more power to you but some of us are having to buy a cheaper grade, at a less expensive cost to keep up the same training regimen.
As far as its reputation… I’m not even saying it’s in the top ten or even top 15. It is an alternative to the higher ammunition prices we are facing. A couple of years ago I wouldn’t even touch it but times they are a changing.
I meant you no disrespect and if Wolf doesn’t work for you fine. I have been able to afford “several long guns as well as handguns all set up the same”. Some are issued and others are personally owned. It did not happen over night but over years. I’m a civil servant and not even remotely close to wealthy. I use a RAS not the latest/greatest, I’m still running an Aimpoint M2 and ML2, a Knights fore-grip, my Glocks run me $400 plus $80 for sights. This is just one way I’m able to afford things. Speaking of which, I need to put a few items on the chopping block to fund another project. I’m saving a lot more than “$20 per case over the course of a year”. If it was only $20 per year then no it wouldn’t make a difference at all. If Natchez was my only option for ammo, then no way in hell would I go with Wolf.
Like I said, I've got no experience and no opinion on the carbine ammo issue, including differences in price. The thread is about (or at least began :cool: ) 9mm practice ammo. My point is that if one is buying enough ammo to have a real financial impact in a year, then the bulk price at a place like Natchez makes the Blazer just as economical.
I can go along with the statement that "I've never seen a malfunction I haven't seen with other ammo." But I've seen a lot more stuck cases, squibs, and general failures to go through the complete cycle of operation with Wolf than just about anything else.
I'd also agree with your comparison to UMC ammo ... it's generally the worst of the "Big Three's" offerings. Though I've had great results from their bargain 357 SIG, oddly enough. (now that I think of it, I'd have to say that I've got a lower opinion of Rem UMC Leadless than Wolf because of the countless problems I've experienced personally)
Very surprised to hear of your troubles with Blazer. I've shot more than 50,000 rounds of it just within the past year with almost zero problems (one blown primer, a few light primer strikes that were probably as much the gun's fault -- and poor maintenance on my part -- as the ammo's). I've probably fired close to a quarter million rounds of Blazer altogether in my shooting career.
And fwiw, I've got an M2 on my (one and only) carbine, myself. :cool:
Well I fell lucky that I haven't had a squib round out of the bunch, yet. It is something i"m going to start keeping an eye on though. Thank you for that insight!
I was really surprised with the case of Blazer brass I bought. The last training ammo that my dept. puchased was Blazer brass by the case loads. Every training day I had zero problems with it, which is why I picked up a case of it when I found a deal. Honestly would have picked up more but that was the only case. Same Glock 17 that I used with the dept. ammo and I had nothing but fail to fire, fail to feed, and fail to eject. Put a couple hundred of some S&B following my problems without a hitch. I suppose I just got a bad batch but I'll tell you, it left a bad taste in my mouth.
Rob,
My apologizes for the high jack. And now back to our regular scheduled program.
huntgrouse
09-02-08, 20:22
I have shot Wolf 9mm in Glock 17 and 19 and my Beretta 92FS.
I have taken courses with all of these guns and use WOLF 115gr 9mm exclusively. I have never had a missfire or squib in over 12,000 rds of it. I can only remember 1 or 2 FTF over the years and cannot remember the reasons. But given that reliability, I ouwld say its good enough for practice and trainig. I cannot say the same for some of the GEARDO's that I have seen shoW up at classes with their personal or commercial reloads that consistently had issues. of ocurse the shooter would sit there and say " I never had a problem before" and " I am really careful when I reload and used these to win the XYZ shooting match" while we wait for them to clear thier latest issue. Of ocurse they then are pulle dot the side by the instructors and eventually they go buy decnet ammo to finish out the oucrse. I cannot say that ever happened with a WOLF user.
Same goes for the 5.56 Wolf Polymer. Great stuff.
I will continue to use it.
"I can get more Wolf and more trigger time. Personally I think that will help me more."
+1
I'll train with whatevers cheapest to maximize trigger time. Few extra failures certainly won't hurt me, not that I've seen them, because I need to train that just as well. That being said I only shoot about 500 pistol wolf and 1500 rifle wolf a year and that being said I don't CC with wolf. ;p
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