View Full Version : Wall Street advisor recommends guns, ammo for protection in collapse
platoonDaddy
12-26-13, 16:26
Interesting article, quoting David John Marotta. No idea who he is, did a google and it depends on who you are asking.
A top financial advisor, worried that Obamacare, the NSA spying scandal and spiraling national debt is increasing the chances for a fiscal and social disaster, is recommending that Americans prepare a “bug-out bag” that includes food, a gun and ammo to help them stay alive.
His memo is part of a series addressing the potential for a “financial apocalypse.” His view, however, is that the problems plaguing the country won't result in armageddon. “There is the possibility of a precipitous decline, although a long and drawn out malaise is much more likely,” said the Charlottesville, Va.-based president of Marotta Wealth Management.
http://washingtonexaminer.com/be-prepared-wall-street-advisor-recommends-guns-ammo-for-protection-in-collapse/article/2541205
Doc Safari
12-26-13, 16:32
I firmly believe a protracted but irreversible decline is under way.
Buy your supplies NOW.
All this article tells us is that a noted financial advisor believes we are in for a serious financial collapse. Fair enough, a lot of us believe this house of cards is due for The Great Reckoning. However, I would not take survival advice from him.
Check out Jim Rawles. I would agree that 'bugging in' is far more viable and conducive to survival than 'bugging out':
http://www.survivalblog.com/
Also study the Argentine financial collapse. There are a bevy of books and movies done on it. It is the most likely scenario in addition to every bad actor in the world making a power play while we (and the rest of the world) is in a weakened condition.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1998%E2%80%932002_Argentine_great_depression
Jim Rawles: an idiot that is keeping the faith that the world collapses so he can live out his ultimate fantasy of "prepper survival".
Listening that dude talk is enough to make me forget anything he said, especially went he went on the tangent of how useless the 5.56 is......Ya that 10lb M14 is so much handier...
The Argentinian situation seems plausible. Might be on an even larger scale though. Without the US spending everything it has in the world, what is the rest of the world to do?
The Argentinian situation seems plausible. Might be on an even larger scale though. Without the US spending everything it has in the world, what is the rest of the world to do?
I agree, it is hard to predict how our massive abuse of the economy will play out. But as the article stated, there is likely to at least be some short term emergencies or disruptions and good to be prepared to protect yourself. Good to see this being recognized outside the gun community as plain common sense.
platoonDaddy
12-27-13, 06:26
Here is a case of arm citizens taking over the responsibility of the sheriff's department over abuse of local economy.
When budget woes reduced the sheriff's department in one rural Oregon county to a bare-bones force, residents decided to take matters into their own hands -- creating armed patrol groups in defiance of local officials.
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/12/26/citizens-take-law-into-own-hands-after-cash-strapped-ore-county-guts-sheriff/
ForTehNguyen
12-27-13, 07:39
oakland and detroit started using private security firms after their budget cuts gutted the police, paid directly by the residents.
Devildawg2531
12-27-13, 08:11
All this article tells us is that a noted financial advisor believes we are in for a serious financial collapse. Fair enough, a lot of us believe this house of cards is due for The Great Reckoning. However, I would not take survival advice from him.
Check out Jim Rawles. I would agree that 'bugging in' is far more viable and conducive to survival than 'bugging out':
http://www.survivalblog.com/
Also study the Argentine financial collapse. There are a bevy of books and movies done on it. It is the most likely scenario in addition to every bad actor in the world making a power play while we (and the rest of the world) is in a weakened condition.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1998%E2%80%932002_Argentine_great_depression
Some of the Rawles site and books has good information but the bug out plan is a BAD idea for 99% of American's in 99% of circumstances. For those of us who have done 20+ mile daily humps carrying everything that you need is with you is very intense. Would be impossible with family and children. Where are you going? Do you plan to become a refugee? It's not sustainable for most.
Some of the Rawles site and books has good information but the bug out plan is a BAD idea for 99% of American's in 99% of circumstances. For those of us who have done 20+ mile daily humps carrying everything that you need is with you is very intense. Would be impossible with family and children. Where are you going? Do you plan to become a refugee? It's not sustainable for most.
I agree. Most people would do well to prepare to stay in place.
platoonDaddy
12-27-13, 10:26
I agree. Most people would do well to prepare to stay in place.
As an oldFart, I ain't leaving my AO. Too friggin old to hump ammo, food & water, therefore the 'boss' and I have prepared our FPL.
As Kate Smith stated God Bless America: http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?feature=player_embedded&v=TnQDW-NMaRs#%21
Doc. Holiday
12-27-13, 10:30
I love how people will plan to bug out an plan to hike to the nearest cave and what not and fail to remember they have their wife and kids. Are they in good enough shape to make that trek or do you just plan on leaving them there? Most bug-out plans that I have heard are not realistic
Rawles goes in depth on the fantasy of bugging out. He argues that you should already live at your retreat. Again, the Argentine example (if you dig into the true life accounts) is the very likely scenario. Things will simply stop working one by one. Obamacare is sort of preview. We are well on track to becoming a third world country with a large govt apparatus.
Remember the Great Depression didnt happen overnight. There were 5 years of government intervention first.
As an oldFart, I ain't leaving my AO. Too friggin old to hump ammo, food & water, therefore the 'boss' and I have prepared our FPL.
As Kate Smith stated God Bless America: http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?feature=player_embedded&v=TnQDW-NMaRs#%21
Bug In is the New Bug Out!
Check out Jim Rawles. I would agree that 'bugging in' is far more viable and conducive to survival than 'bugging out':
You live in the city? Seems to me city folk ought to plan on bugging out. I can't image a city in the USA that can handle more than two days of delay in food delivery without mass riots and unrest.
You live in the country? Bug-in and plan on hungry city folk showing up wanting to "share the food" they think they are entitled to because they are hungry.
I am reminded of hurricane Sandy when people were crying about how "unfair" it was for people with gasoline to sell.... were "allowed" to charge such high prices... and how people that elected to stay in Louisiana were "disarmed" for their own safety and for "the good of the community". No thanks.
Methinks if you live in a dense area you better move out, and decide to move out BEFORE everyone else does.
Oh, and that reminds me. I saw yet another movie about the Nazi takeover and what happened to the Jews. Reminded me of just how dastardly and morally vacant dense population can be when overtaken by fear....
Devildawg2531
12-27-13, 17:40
You live in the city? Seems to me city folk ought to plan on bugging out. I can't image a city in the USA that can handle more than two days of delay in food delivery without mass riots and unrest.
You live in the country? Bug-in and plan on hungry city folk showing up wanting to "share the food" they think they are entitled to because they are hungry.
I am reminded of hurricane Sandy when people were crying about how "unfair" it was for people with gasoline to sell.... were "allowed" to charge such high prices... and how people that elected to stay in Louisiana were "disarmed" for their own safety and for "the good of the community". No thanks.
Methinks if you live in a dense area you better move out, and decide to move out BEFORE everyone else does.
Oh, and that reminds me. I saw yet another movie about the Nazi takeover and what happened to the Jews. Reminded me of just how dastardly and morally vacant dense population can be when overtaken by fear....
If I lived in the city during a complete society meltdown I would plan on having food and supplies and the ability to defend both and would plan on keeping a very LOW profile until things settled. The cities would be mostly emptied out within a week.
If I lived in the country and hordes showed up well it seem's a static hardened positioned would be easier to defend than me roaming around in the wood's with all of the other refugees.
Only the extremely poor, extremely old and extremely ignorant hung around New Orlean's when for 3 day's everyone knew a big hurricane would hit somewhere in the vicinity. Everone else loaded their vehicle and drove 6 hours and stayed in a hotel for a week.
You live in the city? Seems to me city folk ought to plan on bugging out. I can't image a city in the USA that can handle more than two days of delay in food delivery without mass riots and unrest.
...
Methinks if you live in a dense area you better move out, and decide to move out BEFORE everyone else does.
...
The above is answered plainly by the poster below:
I love how people will plan to bug out an plan to hike to the nearest cave and what not and fail to remember they have their wife and kids. Are they in good enough shape to make that trek or do you just plan on leaving them there? Most bug-out plans that I have heard are not realistic
Agreed.
I'm not being fictional, but look along the lines of the beginning of "World War Z" movie with Brad Pitt and his family. Most people will not make it unless you get extremely lucky (doesn't need to be a zombie event) or prepared.
There is no way hundreds of thousands of people can calmly bug-out of a major city that easily when a surprise disaster strikes. Count yourself lucky if you are already outside the city or get out in time. Bugging in and fortifying your location and pre-stocking on supplies might give a better chance of survival in some cases (there are exceptions of course).
Moose-Knuckle
12-27-13, 20:30
Going back to the OP . . .
On the arthor's website he has this series posted, all sage advice:
Is A Financial Apocalypse Coming? (http://www.emarotta.com/is-a-financial-apocalypse-coming/)
Should I Get Out Of Debt Before Civilization Collapses? (http://www.emarotta.com/should-i-get-out-of-debt-before-civilization-collapses/)
Is It The End Of The Line For Stock Investments? (http://www.emarotta.com/is-it-the-end-of-the-line-for-stock-investments/)
If It's TEOTWAWKI, Should I Have Paid Off My Mortgage? (http://www.emarotta.com/if-it-s-teotwawki-should-i-have-paid-off-my-mortgage/)
Should I Be Storing Food, Water and Firearms? (http://www.emarotta.com/should-i-be-storing-food-water-and-firearms/)
If I lived in the city during a complete society meltdown I would plan on having food and supplies and the ability to defend both and would plan on keeping a very LOW profile until things settled. The cities would be mostly emptied out within a week.
If I lived in the country and hordes showed up well it seem's a static hardened positioned would be easier to defend than me roaming around in the wood's with all of the other refugees.
Only the extremely poor, extremely old and extremely ignorant hung around New Orlean's when for 3 day's everyone knew a big hurricane would hit somewhere in the vicinity. Everone else loaded their vehicle and drove 6 hours and stayed in a hotel for a week.
What if the city you are referring to is NYC? Or Chicago? Or LA? I will assume your answer of course.
Devildawg2531
12-27-13, 20:57
What if the city you are referring to is NYC? Or Chicago? Or LA? I will assume your answer of course.
No need to assume I will answer. I have no interest in living in any large city. Married with kids and prefer a less urban environment for the family. IF I lived in a large city in let's say multi level condo I would have have a nice supply of food, water and the ability to defend it. I would plan cutting my lights and staying bunkered down and armed in my own domain. Hopefully unoticed.
Will you be planning on joining the other X Million looters / refugees walking out of the city? But you will have a BOB right?
What if the city you are referring to is NYC? Or Chicago? Or LA?
Each city and locale is different. No one can say exactly for such places like NYC, Atlanta, LA, etc.
One would hypothesize it is almost impossible to leave the city day one of the disaster event esp if you lived in Manhattan or the like. Traffic would be a nightmare and most people will never make it out to bug-out to begin with. People in such locations need to already have a plan to bug-in temporarily if needed with supplies according to their needs, then bug-out when it is safer and the situation has calmed down a bit. There's no point in getting stuck in traffic with everyone else at the initial impact of the disaster, or being mugged if you are on foot. I can't imagine what would happen if you had kids and women with you...
If they were smart, then they wouldn't live in Manhattan or LA to begin with. At least be reasonably outside a big city if possible, like suburban neighborhoods.
Not a surprise since many liberal and rich anti-gun residents fill those specific cities anyway...
I wonder if the people who have prepared will accept those who haven't? Will the people who live in more rural areas accept the city folks overrunning the country areas and demanding survival aid?
You live in the city?
Look at this map of the US:
http://geology.com/articles/night-satellite/satellite-photo-united-states-at-night-lg.jpg
See all those lights? Those are urban areas. Where will the masses bug out to? When disaster strikes en mass you will have to deal with it as you are, where you are. And, should you not live near one of those globs of light, if you are within an hours drive of one of those areas you will soon have visitors. It is what Rawles calls the Golden Horde - all of the people who bugged out and are now scouring the wilderness.
In the case of The Great Reckoning, it will be a slow slide into disaster. There will be no defining bug out event. Things will get worse and worse over time. In fact, we are (and have been) in decline for some time now. Again, read some first hand accounts of how this played out in Argentina.
montanadave
12-27-13, 21:53
Look at this map of the US:
http://geology.com/articles/night-satellite/satellite-photo-united-states-at-night-lg.jpg
See all those lights? Those are urban areas.
Not all. The oil fields in North Dakota light up like NYC.
Granted, but would you consider the populated areas that service the oil fields to be urban areas?
All the same, I would think the boomtowns of North Dakota to be one of the least affected by an economic downturn.
wild_wild_wes
12-27-13, 22:55
Last year I had thyroid cancer. My thyroid gland was removed, and now I have to take a pill every day. For the rest of my life.
What the hell good is bugging out going to be for me?
When the "correction" comes, I hope it will just be a stumble, and not a full collapse. It's not even something I care to think about, because unless things get up and running again soon afterwards, I won't have a chance.
If it happens I'm getting a big moving truck and finding myself a nice "bugged out" mansion in Boca Raton that I can stockpile and fortify. Preferably with a nice local Wal Mart that still hasn't been looted to the shelves.
platoonDaddy
12-28-13, 05:42
I wonder if the people who have prepared will accept those who haven't? Will the people who live in more rural areas accept the city folks overrunning the country areas and demanding survival aid?
During the Boston nightmare with the two brothers on the run, a few neighbors who know I hunt (but don't know the extent of my firearms) informed me they would be moving in with me if that happens here. They were informed no friggin way, it is up to you to protect your family. Stay the frig out of my domain.
Neighbors who aren't prepared are the biggest threat to homeowners who have prepared.
During the Boston nightmare with the two brothers on the run, a few neighbors who know I hunt (but don't know the extent of my firearms) informed me they would be moving in with me if that happens here. They were informed no friggin way, it is up to you to protect your family. Stay the frig out of my domain.
Neighbors who aren't prepared are the biggest threat to homeowners who have prepared.
Agreed, I avoid any conversations with neighbors about weapons and or preparedness.
Last year I had thyroid cancer. My thyroid gland was removed, and now I have to take a pill every day. For the rest of my life.
What the hell good is bugging out going to be for me?
When the "correction" comes, I hope it will just be a stumble, and not a full collapse. It's not even something I care to think about, because unless things get up and running again soon afterwards, I won't have a chance.
I hear you. Being tethered to meds would make things more difficult. I might be in a similar situation in the future (heart valve replacement requiring anti coagulants). When that situation comes (if) I will do my best to have supplies on hand or procure a good supply quickly. Hopefully the med I will need will not be looted along with everything else.
BTW, I have a cousin who's husband is on synthroid (I think that is what it's called). He pops a pill everyday.
Crow Hunter
12-28-13, 08:19
Going back to the OP . . .
On the arthor's website he has this series posted, all sage advice:
Is A Financial Apocalypse Coming? (http://www.emarotta.com/is-a-financial-apocalypse-coming/)
Should I Get Out Of Debt Before Civilization Collapses? (http://www.emarotta.com/should-i-get-out-of-debt-before-civilization-collapses/)
Is It The End Of The Line For Stock Investments? (http://www.emarotta.com/is-it-the-end-of-the-line-for-stock-investments/)
If It's TEOTWAWKI, Should I Have Paid Off My Mortgage? (http://www.emarotta.com/if-it-s-teotwawki-should-i-have-paid-off-my-mortgage/)
Should I Be Storing Food, Water and Firearms? (http://www.emarotta.com/should-i-be-storing-food-water-and-firearms/)
http://www.marottaonmoney.com/am-i-safer-if-my-neighbor-has-a-gun/
Wow.
I like this guy.
Jim Rawles lives in fantasy land, you know where he writes his fiction "novels"...
NCPatrolAR
12-28-13, 09:39
Raveled is good at listening to himself speak. After having to suffer through multiple "tele-speeches" of his I'd rather suck start a pistol than hear about his latest fiction book being published aka his talking about prepping
Grand58742
12-28-13, 12:10
I'd rather duck start a pistol
Would that involve you quacking under the stress? :D
Understandably, a lot of people deride Rawles' fiction. By no means is he a messiah. However, he does bring up a lot of good points and his website is very comprehensive. Despite what else he might say he is quite correct on a few key points. Namely:
1. Bugging out as a survival strategy is fantasy. There may be a time when you need to abandon ship, but this should not be your primary plan.
2. You should live at your retreat.
3. If you are within an hour's drive of a major populated area you will get a visit from the Golden Horde of people who did not prepare, are bugging out, are en route to their real retreat, or voted for Obama.
All the same, there will not be a single event that will define the Day of Reckoning. Unlike a natural disaster, you will not see the flames getting closer or the water rise. There will be no single signal that it is now time to bug out. Things will simply get progressively worse over the course of the next 10-20 years (and beyond).
NCPatrolAR
12-28-13, 17:46
Would that involve you quacking under the stress? :D
Damn autocorrect
BufordTJustice
12-28-13, 18:28
If it happens I'm getting a big moving truck and finding myself a nice "bugged out" mansion in Boca Raton that I can stockpile and fortify. Preferably with a nice local Wal Mart that still hasn't been looted to the shelves.
Agreed. :D
Grand58742
12-28-13, 21:52
Damn autocorrect
Yeah, ends up losing all hostile meaning when you text someone to "go duck yourself" or "duck off and die."
Kinda cute when the ex does it. A little more infuriating if you happen to be the one sending it. Don't ask me how I know...
Agreed, I avoid any conversations with neighbors about weapons and or preparedness.
While I tend to agree to an extent, it's going to be hard to avoid that conversation IF something ends up happening.
"You see Joe? He's so fat! I've lost like 20 pounds this month and I'm always out looking for food for my kids. You never see him scrounging around ... "
While I don't actively advertise what I have (which compared to many, isn't much), I also don't think that it will be possible to hide preps after about a month of an emergency. It's also going to be tough watching all the neighbors kids going hungry while my wife and I eat gourmet spam-wiches with a tang chaser.
It's also going to be tough watching all the neighbors kids going hungry while my wife and I eat gourmet spam-wiches with a tang chaser.
There was a time when I would have agreed with this statement. All of my good neighbors just moved to Texas & Utah though so now.... not so much.
You raise a very good point. Important medications need to be stockpiled and periodically rotated. Stock up on Synthroid.
Last year I had thyroid cancer. My thyroid gland was removed, and now I have to take a pill every day. For the rest of my life.
What the hell good is bugging out going to be for me?
When the "correction" comes, I hope it will just be a stumble, and not a full collapse. It's not even something I care to think about, because unless things get up and running again soon afterwards, I won't have a chance.
Remember, FEMA will tell you to plan for NO help for the first 72 hours and only limited help for 14 days. That is in normal single national emergency conditions. In the DoD we like guys to deploy with at least a 30 day supply of meds.
Personally, I would recommend a 90 day to 6 month supply of meds. Make sure to rotate your stock.
I have heard several times that what happened in Argentina is the pattern we can look to for when something happens here. The more I think about that claim I wonder something......
In Argentina what percentage of the population at that time was used to going without food for any length of time?
What percentage of the population in Argentina at that time has lived at least part of their lives "hard"... without dependence on a huge social safety net?
What percentage of the population in Argentina at that time had absolutely no idea whatsoever of how to grow food, gather food, hunt, etc?
Now, what are those numbers for your average American city? Are they twice as bad? How many millions fall on the wrong side of those three questions?
It seems to me that USA inner cities will be far worse off than an equivalent event as to what happened in Argentina. Both in a short term and a long-term scenario.
Am I thinking incorrectly?
A large segment of the population here is used to taking a piece of plastic to the store and getting "free" food. That is a whole other social mindset from what happened in Argentina.
I am also wondering what difference there is between Argentina food producers vs. city consumers per square miles. The USA has vast areas with almost no food production and vast populations of workers that only work in a conceptual-based occupations.
Remember, FEMA will tell you to plan for NO help for the first 72 hours and only limited help for 14 days. That is in normal single national emergency conditions. In the DoD we like guys to deploy with at least a 30 day supply of meds.
Personally, I would recommend a 90 day to 6 month supply of meds. Make sure to rotate your stock.
Lord that used to drive me nuts. We'd get entire companies coming into our BAS asking for their doxy for their entire deployment. Yeah, I carry 365 pills for 100+ soldiers in our dinky med chest.
3 months of NEEDED meds would be a good estimate for minimum needs. Ideally 6 months. Things like insulin or other easily expirable meds could be really tough though.
I have heard several times that what happened in Argentina is the pattern we can look to for when something happens here. The more I think about that claim I wonder something......
It seems to me that USA inner cities will be far worse off than an equivalent event as to what happened in Argentina. Both in a short term and a long-term scenario.
Am I thinking incorrectly?
A large segment of the population here is used to taking a piece of plastic to the store and getting "free" food. That is a whole other mindset.
Well a few things....
Prior to the collapse Argentina was quite wealthy. It was not uncommon for British women to marry a rich Argentine. Remember, Argentina felt rich and powerful enough to challenge the UK over the Falklands.
During their Depression many farms were attacked, looted, robbed, ect. Farmers were visited by all sorts of beggars, vagabonds, and petty criminals. If you live on a farm, take note! Remember that Golden Horde? By the way, the same sort of thing happened in Rhodesia and South Africa (actually it was worse in Africa).
Cities today are a bit more complex. Firstly, in many places it is hard to tell where the city ends. It is just miles and miles of suburban sprawl in most populated areas. See the light map above. Some "suburbs" are more crime laden than the downtown area of many cities. Los Angeles has been call '77 suburbs looking for a city.'
There has been a lot of gentrification over the past 20 years. Many cities are actually becoming too expensive for the "element" to live in. There is a growing trend of Urban Farming:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urban_agriculture
I live in a city on the East Coast. The lady in back of me raises chickens. Most of us have some sort of Victory Garden (just like Moochell!). My wife wants a miniature goat and some chickens. The guy down the street from me actually had a backyard full of corn this year. There is a movement toward eating locally grown food. That means more small scale farming within miles of urban centers.
I would dare say that a lot of people living in 'the burbs' would starve if they couldn't get to Cosco, WalMart, or if the McDonald's drive thru stopped working.
wild_wild_wes
12-29-13, 18:18
Personally, I would recommend a 90 day to 6 month supply of meds. Make sure to rotate your stock.
The Kaiser pharmacy system won't let me refill the prescription until literally the last few pills. Last time there was a delay in the mail, and I was down to 2 left. Are there alternate sources of Synthroid I can tap?
The Kaiser pharmacy system won't let me refill the prescription until literally the last few pills. Last time there was a delay in the mail, and I was down to 2 left. Are there alternate sources of Synthroid I can tap?
Walmart has levothyroxine (generic name for Synthroid) for $4 per 30. You don't process your insurance to take advantage of the Walmart $4 prescription program, just pay out of pocket.
The full list of $4 meds can be seen here. Levothyroxine is on the bottom left side of page 4.
http://i.walmartimages.com/i/if/hmp/fusion/customer_list.pdf
wild_wild_wes
12-29-13, 19:44
Thanks!
I do have some supplies of levothyroxine from when my dosage was being adjusted, but I'm definitely going to stock up at Walmart too.
No need to assume I will answer. I have no interest in living in any large city. Married with kids and prefer a less urban environment for the family. IF I lived in a large city in let's say multi level condo I would have have a nice supply of food, water and the ability to defend it. I would plan cutting my lights and staying bunkered down and armed in my own domain. Hopefully unoticed.
Will you be planning on joining the other X Million looters / refugees walking out of the city? But you will have a BOB right?
No, I think not. Unless of course if its for need to have meds or something like that if I don't have a ready supply. I have a BOB, some supplies, but probably not enough. I think my question put forth the assumption that I live in one of those large cities that I mentioned. I do not, but I have family that does. I doubt I will be able to help them in a sudden catastrophe.
Well a few things....
Prior to the collapse Argentina was quite wealthy. It was not uncommon for British women to marry a rich Argentine. Remember, Argentina felt rich and powerful enough to challenge the UK over the Falklands.
During their Depression many farms were attacked, looted, robbed, ect. Farmers were visited by all sorts of beggars, vagabonds, and petty criminals. If you live on a farm, take note! Remember that Golden Horde? By the way, the same sort of thing happened in Rhodesia and South Africa (actually it was worse in Africa).
Cities today are a bit more complex. Firstly, in many places it is hard to tell where the city ends. It is just miles and miles of suburban sprawl in most populated areas. See the light map above. Some "suburbs" are more crime laden than the downtown area of many cities. Los Angeles has been call '77 suburbs looking for a city.'
There has been a lot of gentrification over the past 20 years. Many cities are actually becoming too expensive for the "element" to live in. There is a growing trend of Urban Farming:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urban_agriculture
I live in a city on the East Coast. The lady in back of me raises chickens. Most of us have some sort of Victory Garden (just like Moochell!). My wife wants a miniature goat and some chickens. The guy down the street from me actually had a backyard full of corn this year. There is a movement toward eating locally grown food. That means more small scale farming within miles of urban centers.
I would dare say that a lot of people living in 'the burbs' would starve if they couldn't get to Cosco, WalMart, or if the McDonald's drive thru stopped working.
You make valid points but I think he was talking mire about the # of 'urban' areas & how densly populated they are. Save for a few areas Argentina isn't as densly populated. I mean we're talking 38 people per sq mile & 40mil total people to nearly 3x that at 84 people per sq mile and 300mil people. That doesn't even tell the story as our urban areas are FAR more dense too. This all spells a situation far more dire here than there if an economic meltdown is presented. When you talk about Argentina you'd be better off comparing it to the state of Texas in density & overall population & that doesn't take the rest of the states of the union, excessive wealth or the convolution of the federal government into account either. I get what your saying but in my estimation & with all due respect this won't be anything like Argentina. Our fall from grace will be of historic proportions & the ripples will be felt around the world which will compound the issue. When this hits it will trigger a world-wude depression that will be very difficult & lengthy from which to recover.
Eurodriver
12-29-13, 22:21
These threads always make me ask the same question, and the mountain boys never really give a good response:
What's wrong with, come SHTF, I throw all my equipment on my sailboat and go 200 miles offshore? Endless supply of food, you can see threats coming from miles and miles away...
You make valid points but I think he was talking mire about the # of 'urban' areas & how densly populated they are. Save for a few areas Argentina isn't as densly populated. I mean we're talking 38 people per sq mile & 40mil total people to nearly 3x that at 84 people per sq mile and 300mil people. That doesn't even tell the story as our urban areas are FAR more dense too. This all spells a situation far more dire here than there if an economic meltdown is presented. When you talk about Argentina you'd be better off comparing it to the state of Texas in density & overall population & that doesn't take the rest of the states of the union, excessive wealth or the convolution of the federal government into account either. I get what your saying but in my estimation & with all due respect this won't be anything like Argentina. Our fall from grace will be of historic proportions & the ripples will be felt around the world which will compound the issue. When this hits it will trigger a world-wude depression that will be very difficult & lengthy from which to recover.
Exactly. It will be more like the fall of Rome...
Exactly. It will be more like the fall of Rome...
It will be more akin to this but the world is even more connected today.
Moose-Knuckle
12-30-13, 01:14
During their Depression many farms were attacked, looted, robbed, ect. Farmers were visited by all sorts of beggars, vagabonds, and petty criminals. If you live on a farm, take note! Remember that Golden Horde?
To add to this, rural properties are referred to as secondary crime scenes. If its your turn to be "visited" it may not be amateur night.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DOo9bjLtL3Q
I think it is a very good option with some caveats. I would personally want to set up pintle-mounted 50bmg in the bow and stern. Barrett light 50s with good optics would do the trick. I would want a fast boat that was sufficient in size to have a good size crew to assist in not only sailing, but also in keeping watch and aiding in defense. I would also want a 17-22' center console tender with some armor and the ability to pintle mount 50 cals in the bow and stern. A Boston Whaler would fit this bill nicely due to its ability to stat afloat in the event of direct small arms fire hits to the hull. And while we are at it, I would also want some type of amphibious ultralight for scouting purposes.
Modern radar and FLIR would assist in security.
And finally, it would be wise to travel with 2-3 identically equipped sloops.
These threads always make me ask the same question, and the mountain boys never really give a good response:
What's wrong with, come SHTF, I throw all my equipment on my sailboat and go 200 miles offshore? Endless supply of food, you can see threats coming from miles and miles away...
Walmart has levothyroxine (generic name for Synthroid) for $4 per 30. You don't process your insurance to take advantage of the Walmart $4 prescription program, just pay out of pocket.
The full list of $4 meds can be seen here. Levothyroxine is on the bottom left side of page 4.
http://i.walmartimages.com/i/if/hmp/fusion/customer_list.pdf
Josh, Thanks for that info, I take Levothyroxine myself, I've been looking for a way to stock up, without getting my insurance involved..
I would dare say that a lot of people living in 'the burbs' would starve if they couldn't get to Cosco, WalMart, or if the McDonald's drive thru stopped working.
Armati, it seems we agree here!
When you talk about Argentina you'd be better off comparing it to the state of Texas in density & overall population.....
Jer, I think that is a good way to put it. A collapse of Argentina might be more comparable in geography and economic layout to Texas rather than, say, Connecticut or another New England State.
Our fall from grace will be of historic proportions & the ripples will be felt around the world which will compound the issue. When this hits it will trigger a world-wude depression that will be very difficult & lengthy from which to recover.
I think that may not be the case. Certainly there are ripples, but much like the USA meandered along after the great depression the rest of the world picked up the pieces and improved on things much sooner. The world certainly is quite different today... but I do expect recovery would be faster elsewhere for many of the same reasons I stated.
For example I don't expect Latin America to wait for the USA to return to power. They are going to collectively do their own thing when the reset button is pressed. Same with East Asia…and so on….
These threads always make me ask the same question, and the mountain boys never really give a good response:
What's wrong with, come SHTF, I throw all my equipment on my sailboat and go 200 miles offshore? Endless supply of food, you can see threats coming from miles and miles away...
Is that really viable? With what goes on in a vast sea all the way from Ethiopia to the coast of India.... it seems the high seas might be more dangerous and less defensible.... especially if we have a Barbary-pirates redux or hoards of opportunists when you come to port.
To add to this, rural properties are referred to as secondary crime scenes. If its your turn to be "visited" it may not be amateur night.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DOo9bjLtL3Q
Excellent illustration. What can one guy or small group do against such an attack? Can you imagine what a group of hungry bandits would do to your wife or daughter to entertain themselves and gain an advantage?
What can be done to counter such a group operating within only a few miles of your area?
Seems only an organized opposition force that doesn't wait for the attack.... but rather eradicates the gang.
How hard do you think it is to get such a counter-force organized in a climate of abject fear and "just leave me alone, not interested" attitude?
"Perhaps if I try and stay hidden and keep out of the line of fire they will let me and mine alone."
Without organized law enforcement it is like the wild west, only worse.
Perhaps we can get the remnants of LEO to perform a no-knock raid on the gang compound.
These threads always make me ask the same question, and the mountain boys never really give a good response:
What's wrong with, come SHTF, I throw all my equipment on my sailboat and go 200 miles offshore? Endless supply of food, you can see threats coming from miles and miles away...
Would you feel like your choice of locations is defensible?
Other things to consider are:
There is no where to hide from the elements.
Rough weather may do you in.
If you have to go into the water, you become part of the food chain.
If you are planning to relocate out to sea in a watercraft smaller than a commercial fishing boat, I think moving to a location on land would be more prudent.
Grand58742
12-30-13, 12:55
These threads always make me ask the same question, and the mountain boys never really give a good response:
What's wrong with, come SHTF, I throw all my equipment on my sailboat and go 200 miles offshore? Endless supply of food, you can see threats coming from miles and miles away...
Being an original mountain boy and currently landlocked original mountain boy, here's the problems I foresee:
Fresh water: Do you have the ability to make more? And if the machine breaks, do you have the technical know how and parts to fix it?
Communications: How will you know when it's safe to pull into port? And how long of a life do your batteries have or how much fuel do you have to run the generator?
Defense: What happens if you have a power boat that takes an active interest in what you have? (saw it addressed, but needs addressing again)
Environmental conditions: How sturdy is your boat? Do you have the skills to ride out a storm? Can your boat survive a storm? How will you get warning a storm will come?
The boat theory is kind of a neat idea of bugging out, but not a practical one.
Moose-Knuckle
12-30-13, 12:59
Excellent illustration. What can one guy or small group do against such an attack? Can you imagine what a group of hungry bandits would do to your wife or daughter to entertain themselves and gain an advantage?
What can be done to counter such a group operating within only a few miles of your area?
Seems only an organized opposition force that doesn't wait for the attack.... but rather eradicates the gang.
How hard do you think it is to get such a counter-force organized in a climate of abject fear and "just leave me alone, not interested" attitude?
"Perhaps if I try and stay hidden and keep out of the line of fire they will let me and mine alone."
Without organized law enforcement it is like the wild west, only worse.
Perhaps we can get the remnants of LEO to perform a no-knock raid on the gang compound.
Armati eluded to this earlier, look to the Rhodesians for solutions. On a Rhodesian farm every man, woman, and older child was armed. They fortified their homes/farms, established communications systems, and formed QRFs to rescue besieged neighbors.
Rhodesian Farmers Defensive Arrangements
http://www.survivalistboards.com/showthread.php?t=160881
Could America's Farmers and Ranchers Face a Rhodesian Future?
http://www.survivalblog.com/2012/02/could-americas-farmers-and-ranchers-face-a-rhodesian-future.html
platoonDaddy
12-30-13, 13:07
Walmart has levothyroxine (generic name for Synthroid) for $4 per 30. You don't process your insurance to take advantage of the Walmart $4 prescription program, just pay out of pocket.
The full list of $4 meds can be seen here. Levothyroxine is on the bottom left side of page 4.
http://i.walmartimages.com/i/if/hmp/fusion/customer_list.pdf
Dang, great info on WalMart! My question: how do you get a duplicate prescription for WalMart?
Maybe the question should be: how do you personally stock up prescriptions for the just in case disaster?
Thank you
Damn autocorrect
Dang, great info on WalMart! My question: how do you get a duplicate prescription for WalMart?
Maybe the question should be: how do you personally stock up prescriptions for the just in case disaster?
Thank you
Ask your doctor for a script or have it transferred there.
p22shooter30
12-30-13, 13:54
Jim Rawles: an idiot that is keeping the faith that the world collapses so he can live out his ultimate fantasy of "prepper survival".
Listening that dude talk is enough to make me forget anything he said, especially went he went on the tangent of how useless the 5.56 is......Ya that 10lb M14 is so much handier...
His books are absolute junk as well. my god I cant believe I read the first two, now he has like 2 more.
platoonDaddy
12-30-13, 17:22
Ask your doctor for a script or have it transferred there.
The discussion was about how to stock pile in case of an emergency. Therefore transferring your prescription to WalMart isn't going to give you an additional supply. Or am I missing something?
Eurodriver
12-30-13, 17:45
Being an original mountain boy and currently landlocked original mountain boy, here's the problems I foresee:
Fresh water: Do you have the ability to make more? And if the machine breaks, do you have the technical know how and parts to fix it?
Rains all the time around here and sailing vessels used to travel for years in the 1500s without mechanical water purifiers
Communications: How will you know when it's safe to pull into port? And how long of a life do your batteries have or how much fuel do you have to run the generator?
Why do you need a generator and why would you pull into port? A crank radio would provide listening opportunities
Defense: What happens if you have a power boat that takes an active interest in what you have? (saw it addressed, but needs addressing again)
Then you are in deep doo-doo. What do you do if you have a gang of looters with armored vehicles that take an active interestin your home?
Environmental conditions: How sturdy is your boat? Do you have the skills to ride out a storm? Can your boat survive a storm? How will you get warning a storm will come?
Storms? Yes. Hurricanes? No. But my house would be underwater where it sits during a hurricane anyway. At least this way I can move my belongings out of the way. I assume I would be equally screwed on land or on water with respect to knowing when a hurricane is coming
The boat theory is kind of a neat idea of bugging out, but not a practical one.
Is that really viable? With what goes on in a vast sea all the way from Ethiopia to the coast of India.... it seems the high seas might be more dangerous and less defensible.... especially if we have a Barbary-pirates redux or hoards of opportunists when you come to port.
See above. Bands of looters and thugs are just as (if not more) likely on land than they are on water.
I think it is a very good option with some caveats. I would personally want to set up pintle-mounted 50bmg in the bow and stern. Barrett light 50s with good optics would do the trick. I would want a fast boat that was sufficient in size to have a good size crew to assist in not only sailing, but also in keeping watch and aiding in defense. I would also want a 17-22' center console tender with some armor and the ability to pintle mount 50 cals in the bow and stern. A Boston Whaler would fit this bill nicely due to its ability to stat afloat in the event of direct small arms fire hits to the hull. And while we are at it, I would also want some type of amphibious ultralight for scouting purposes.
Modern radar and FLIR would assist in security.
And finally, it would be wise to travel with 2-3 identically equipped sloops.
This is absolutely fantastic...if I were a millionaire :dirol: Several crew served weapons would be fantastic. Night vision for lookouts and several shifts/watches. You'd need a 50ft boat or so easily for this though. Probably bigger. Having several additional boats to form a convoy would be even better. Unfortunately I have neither the funds nor the friends to accomplish this. I do think, however, if one could pull this off it would beat practically any land based survival strategy. There will be a lot less violence hundreds of miles off shore than there will be in our neighborhoods if food is running out.
Devildawg2531
12-30-13, 17:55
These threads always make me ask the same question, and the mountain boys never really give a good response:
What's wrong with, come SHTF, I throw all my equipment on my sailboat and go 200 miles offshore? Endless supply of food, you can see threats coming from miles and miles away...
Eurodriver - My concerns about taking to sea in a sailboat would be:
1. your sailboat would be an easy target at a mile + with 300 WM and up
2. It wouldn't have the speed to elude or maneuver
3. What would be the plan for obtaining more freshwater?
Dang, great info on WalMart! My question: how do you get a duplicate prescription for WalMart?
Maybe the question should be: how do you personally stock up prescriptions for the just in case disaster?
Thank you
You'll need a prescription from your doctor. Tell him/her that you are putting away emergency meds as a "just in case". It is actually pretty commonplace.
Grand58742
12-30-13, 22:07
Being an original mountain boy and currently landlocked original mountain boy, here's the problems I foresee:
Fresh water: Do you have the ability to make more? And if the machine breaks, do you have the technical know how and parts to fix it?
Rains all the time around here and sailing vessels used to travel for years in the 1500s without mechanical water purifiers
Communications: How will you know when it's safe to pull into port? And how long of a life do your batteries have or how much fuel do you have to run the generator?
Why do you need a generator and why would you pull into port? A crank radio would provide listening opportunities
Defense: What happens if you have a power boat that takes an active interest in what you have? (saw it addressed, but needs addressing again)
Then you are in deep doo-doo. What do you do if you have a gang of looters with armored vehicles that take an active interestin your home?
Environmental conditions: How sturdy is your boat? Do you have the skills to ride out a storm? Can your boat survive a storm? How will you get warning a storm will come?
Storms? Yes. Hurricanes? No. But my house would be underwater where it sits during a hurricane anyway. At least this way I can move my belongings out of the way. I assume I would be equally screwed on land or on water with respect to knowing when a hurricane is coming
If you have everything planned out, I don't see why your boat bug out couldn't work as long as you game out the scenarios.
But have you practiced it? And that's the kicker. Practice doing same before making the determination that's what you are betting your life on.
As with all bug out/in situations, if it works for you, who am I to say you are wrong?
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