View Full Version : Vietnam combat
wild_wild_wes
12-27-13, 22:41
Looks pretty informal compared to now
http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii173/USPx4/Life_zps9d6bc4b8.jpg
The kid with the glasses and an M-14...
Moose-Knuckle
12-28-13, 02:04
Afghanistan 11 May 2009 . . .
http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a144/AKS-74/afghanistanboxers_zps9665afc5.jpg (http://s10.photobucket.com/user/AKS-74/media/afghanistanboxers_zps9665afc5.jpg.html)
scoutfsu99
12-28-13, 02:11
A lot of bullshit came down because of that picture...who would have thought the Army would mandate wearing underwear?
Part of our problem is 1 tour weenies like SMA Chandler think they know how deployed life is after a tour as an Ops SGM/FOB Mayor/etc. Also, the proliferation of cameras/pictures/video allows the people hiding in the rear to snipe at those doing :mad:
Looks pretty informal compared to now
http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii173/USPx4/Life_zps9d6bc4b8.jpg
About what my brother's pictures look like. He went it in at 180 lbs and came out under 130 lbs. a bunch of skinny young kids dropped off in the jungle on a ridge days from help (when choppers couldn't fly).
The conditions in Afghanistan look pretty desolate.
Sometimes it is a planned action others it is a come as you are fight.
The kid with the glasses and an M-14...
M14 or XM21?
Looks pretty informal compared to now
http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii173/USPx4/Life_zps9d6bc4b8.jpg
I believe that you've stumbled on a classified pic of an extension of the Manhattan Project. They couldn't generate enough power to make a ship disappear but it worked fine for clothing.
Looks like a squad designated marksman running an M14, a guy trying to get his M60 up and running, one guy engaging with his M-16 and the other in the background with his bringing it into action.
No body armor. No protection. Pure combat.
A lot of bullshit came down because of that picture...who would have thought the Army would mandate wearing underwear?
Part of our problem is 1 tour weenies like SMA Chandler think they know how deployed life is after a tour as an Ops SGM/FOB Mayor/etc. Also, the proliferation of cameras/pictures/video allows the people hiding in the rear to snipe at those doing :mad:
For me, a picture without context is of zero value. You're taking a needed shut eye, rnds start coming in, or worse and you have time to put on your vest and helmet and defend the outpost and the rest will have to wait 'till later. I have no idea if that's the case with this pic or the other, but no doubt, regardless of the war/conflict, there's "informal" pictures like that we can find. Me, I pay them no mind at all.
As you indicate also, now that everything short of our pecker is able to take a pic (iPecker cam currently in development not doubt...) people should think first before posting to their FB pages, etc looking for their 15 minutes.
sandman99and9
12-28-13, 10:26
I thought I had seen just about every picture from Vietnam and I found a cool pic a few days ago.
That is some close proximity flying during a bombing run.
http://i478.photobucket.com/albums/rr147/sandman99and9/Skyraider.jpg (http://s478.photobucket.com/user/sandman99and9/media/Skyraider.jpg.html)
S.M.
SeriousStudent
12-28-13, 10:55
Someone's about to have a very crispy day.
sandman99and9
12-28-13, 10:59
Weather report * it's going to be hot !! *
S.M.
I thought I had seen just about every picture from Vietnam and I found a cool pic a few days ago.
That is some close proximity flying during a bombing run.
http://i478.photobucket.com/albums/rr147/sandman99and9/Skyraider.jpg (http://s478.photobucket.com/user/sandman99and9/media/Skyraider.jpg.html)
S.M.
The good old Skyraider...a flying tank in its day.
It is dropping napalm.
Crispy critters result.
Moose-Knuckle
12-28-13, 14:42
Sometimes it is a planned action others it is a come as you are fight.
This is spot on.
Moose-Knuckle
12-28-13, 14:49
Afghanistan 11 May 2009 . . .
http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a144/AKS-74/afghanistanboxers_zps9665afc5.jpg (http://s10.photobucket.com/user/AKS-74/media/afghanistanboxers_zps9665afc5.jpg.html)
For me, a picture without context is of zero value. You're taking a needed shut eye, rnds start coming in, or worse and you have time to put on your vest and helmet and defend the outpost and the rest will have to wait 'till later. I have no idea if that's the case with this pic or the other, but no doubt, regardless of the war/conflict, there's "informal" pictures like that we can find. Me, I pay them no mind at all.
As you indicate also, now that everything short of our pecker is able to take a pic (iPecker cam currently in development not doubt...) people should think first before posting to their FB pages, etc looking for their 15 minutes.
Current and former soldiers, what are your thoughts on this?
Here is the back story on this pic.
Gates Hails Soldier Snapped in Pink Boxer Shorts
Army Specialist Zachary Boyd, 19, of Fort Worth, Texas, rushed from his sleeping quarters on May 11 to join fellow platoon members at a base in Afghanistan's Kunar Province after the unit came under fire from Taliban positions.
A news photographer was on hand to record the image of Boyd standing at a makeshift rampart in helmet, body armor, red T-shirt and boxers emblazoned with the message: "I love NY."
http://www.foxnews.com/story/2009/05/22/gates-hails-soldier-snapped-in-pink-boxer-shorts/
Honestly, my feeling about the soldier with his red shirt and pink boxers on is this:
If I am not there standing beside him, manning a post, and giving back as much as I'm getting, in combat, it is none of my damn business what he is wearing.
And I think the same is true for anyone else commenting on the photo.
I'm far more concerned about the health and well being of our soldiers than their attire except to the extent that their attire doesn't put their health and well being at undue risk given the circumstances.
I'm far more concerned about the health and well being of our soldiers than their attire except to the extent that their attire doesn't put their health and well being at undue risk given the circumstances.
Yup. I couldn't care less what skivvies one is wearing if he can be in the fight.
RE: the A1, I had a teacher in HS who went from B52s to those in the early 60s, did a couple tours in RVN. They sound a lot like the A10...flying with most pieces shot off and fuel tank near "E".
I would think a soldier on a FOB rampart in boxers would require no explanation - you don't sleep in your BDU (or whatever we're calling it now), but you fight in whatever you're in when the fight comes to you.
That photo should elicit no further comment than "hooah."
I don't care what the soldier is wearing or fighting in, but the screaming red shirt should be a no go.
http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a144/AKS-74/afghanistanboxers_zps9665afc5.jpg (http://s10.photobucket.com/user/AKS-74/media/afghanistanboxers_zps9665afc5.jpg.html)
Current and former soldiers, what are your thoughts on this?[/QUOTE]
Really? Who freaking cares! The guy might have been taking a dump, sleeping or about to shower. The balloon went up and he went with his brothers to fight. He is freaking wearing shower shoes. He has his weapon and protective gear and it looks like he is doing is freaking job. There is a photo of a SWAT Cop in LA responding to the Hollywood Bank Shoot Out. He has his civilian shorts and SWAT gear on. There was no time to get in complete uniform. I'd like to know who the ass is who took the photo and why they didn't have a weapon in their hands.
Okay just saw the new clip Moose posted. Makes sense. Sounds like he was in his pajamas. I only deployed once. I did not take any civvies with me other than personally owned poly pro long underwear. We were not issued poly pro then and told it was required. They were an OD green though.
Moose-Knuckle
12-28-13, 18:12
Really? Who freaking cares! The guy might have been taking a dump, sleeping or about to shower. The balloon went up and he went with his brothers to fight. He is freaking wearing shower shoes. He has his weapon and protective gear and it looks like he is doing is freaking job. There is a photo of a SWAT Cop in LA responding to the Hollywood Bank Shoot Out. He has his civilian shorts and SWAT gear on. There was no time to get in complete uniform. I'd like to know who the ass is who took the photo and why they didn't have a weapon in their hands.
Check out post #17 on page 1 of this thread, I linked the story and it explains that the young PFC was asleep when his post was attacked and that the photo was taken by a journalist.
http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a144/AKS-74/afghanistanboxers_zps9665afc5.jpg (http://s10.photobucket.com/user/AKS-74/media/afghanistanboxers_zps9665afc5.jpg.html)
Current and former soldiers, what are your thoughts on this?[/QUOTE]
I've responded to a COP attack wearing an IOTV and ranger panties.
Sometimes, this happens.
2-7 Cav "Ghost", Ralphs Valley, 1969 ROV
http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL1321/4777050/23518468/408459817.jpg
http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL1321/4777050/23518468/408459816.jpg
That photo should elicit no further comment than "hooah."
Exactly.
http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a144/AKS-74/afghanistanboxers_zps9665afc5.jpg (http://s10.photobucket.com/user/AKS-74/media/afghanistanboxers_zps9665afc5.jpg.html)
Current and former soldiers, what are your thoughts on this?[/QUOTE]
Sometimes all you have time to put on is your helmet, iba and grab your rifle, its go time.
I don't care and the Secretary of Defense doesn't care.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/2009/05/22/gates-hails-soldier-snapped-in-pink-boxer-shorts/
ClearedHot
12-29-13, 01:39
I care.
Your example of the SWAT cop is not relevant, as it is reasonable to expect that he will wear civilian clothing when not on shift, and even on duty sometimes, he isn't a soldier deployed to fight in a war.
I never said that he should have changed into uniform first. You are missing the point on that. Many soldiers have gone into combat nearly naked because of the situation. They do so because they have to, it is reasonable to expect soldiers to sleep, bathe, or to conduct other personal hygiene. Wearing unauthorized clothing (mainly the red t-shirt) is not reasonably expected. If it was, there would be more pictures of it. He did what he had to and what he was allowed to do. This soldier should not have been wearing this clothing. Period. Your edit shows that you weren't allowed to have civvies with you either, what would have happened if you had been photographed like this? Would you have allowed someone to dress like this in that situation, especially knowing reporters with cameras are around?
It seems the attitude is that, he is "off shift" or off duty and he can do or wear what he wants. This couldn't be farther from the truth. If you think that's unreasonable, I know a 1SG that was relieved in the first Gulf War because some of his troops were caught sunbathing, and I know an NCO and officer or two that were held responsible for their soldiers getting a DUI on a weekend. This is a leadership issue, and leaders are accountable for everything, on and off duty.
SgtMaj Sixta, is that you??
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-oF0XYRhRvA
Nightvisionary
12-29-13, 02:19
Current and former soldiers, what are your thoughts on this?
Sometimes all you have time to put on is your helmet, iba and grab your rifle, its go time.[/QUOTE]
Since they are Army it's only realistic to expect a certain level of un-discipline. Everyone can't be like the Marines. Good thing we don't have to fight against Waffen SS, Fallschirmjager, and Japanese Naval Special Landing Troops anymore. I don't think red shirts, flip flops and pink undies would have cut it back then.
scoutfsu99
12-29-13, 09:42
Since they are Army it's only realistic to expect a certain level of un-discipline. Everyone can't be like the Marines. Good thing we don't have to fight against Waffen SS, Fallschirmjager, and Japanese Naval Special Landing Troops anymore. I don't think red shirts, flip flops and pink undies would have cut it back then.
Now, now...there's no need to turn this into a Marines -vs- Army thing. There are plenty of examples of Marine "un-discipline" I could throw in your face too.
High Tower
12-29-13, 09:50
I got it, my point is not well received.
I believe that I fell victim to one of the classic blunders - The most famous of which is "never get involved in a land war in Asia" - but only slightly less well-known is this: "Never thread drift a post about it in GD". Ciao.
I get your point, but there are very very few soldiers who do not deploy without any civilian clothing. a) you aren't allowed to fly home on e-leave in uniform and b) army pt's are almost the most uncomfortable form of leisure wear out there. Most units who require uniforms to be worn outside will still allow anything to be worn to bed. Hence if he's sleeping in a red shirt, he's responding to an attack in a red shirt. To me its no biggie whatsoever and if the army wants their guys to be in uniform 24/7 then its about ****ing time they start issueing shit thats wearable 24/7.
I flew home in 05 for leave wearing desert BDUs. Everyone else on the flight was wearing the same thing. New order?
High Tower
12-29-13, 10:02
I flew home in 05 for leave wearing desert BDUs. Everyone else on the flight was wearing the same thing. New order?
Yeah unless it was only our TF. In '09, we all went home on leave in uniform. But this year a few of our guys went home on e-leave and had to wear civvies on the flight.
Afghanistan 11 May 2009 . . .
http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a144/AKS-74/afghanistanboxers_zps9665afc5.jpg (http://s10.photobucket.com/user/AKS-74/media/afghanistanboxers_zps9665afc5.jpg.html)
He showed up to fight. That is all that matters to the guys standing next to him.
Sometimes all you have time to put on is your helmet, iba and grab your rifle, its go time.
Since they are Army it's only realistic to expect a certain level of un-discipline. Everyone can't be like the Marines. Good thing we don't have to fight against Waffen SS, Fallschirmjager, and Japanese Naval Special Landing Troops anymore. I don't think red shirts, flip flops and pink undies would have cut it back then.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, you guys are too busy pissing on dead dudes.
scoutfsu99
12-29-13, 10:10
CGrunt - Yes you have to wear civilians on a flight home now. They also highly "encourage" some sort of civilian backpack/luggage. A big part of the reason is people are flying on civilian airliners out of Kuwait, etc. They're not taking rotator flights on R&R, E-Leave, individual redeployers, etc.
eta: clarity
I get your point, but there are very very few soldiers who do not deploy without any civilian clothing. a) you aren't allowed to fly home on e-leave in uniform and b) army pt's are almost the most uncomfortable form of leisure wear out there. Most units who require uniforms to be worn outside will still allow anything to be worn to bed. Hence if he's sleeping in a red shirt, he's responding to an attack in a red shirt. To me its no biggie whatsoever and if the army wants their guys to be in uniform 24/7 then its about ****ing time they start issueing shit thats wearable 24/7.
Duuuude Nooooo! Can you imagine how much time and money they would waste designing issued sleep wear! =)
Underwear and a t-shirt work fine to sleep in. I understand that the red t-shirt and pink boxers are not the best idea. I'd also hate to have people worrying about getting into regulation uniform and being late to a gun fight. I flew home in cammies too. We flew commercial but the planes were chartered and besides the crew all service members. Not sure what kind of unit this was and what their quarters looked like. I assume they had extra non essential gear and comfort items with them there. Should we say no iPods too? I'm sure in almost every war that warriors have brought some comfort items with them. My team leader checked all of my gear and made me leave some behind when we moved forward. I brought my Walkman with me so I could listen to music and tapes my girlfriend sent me. I left behind my 35mm camera in the rear wish I hadn't but I needed to be able to carry all my gear in my pack. It doesn't look like the case here.
Years ago I " years ago "1971" I worked with a guy" my boss" who was a lurp during Vietnam. He wouldn't talk about it much until we fed him beers and joints after work then he would open up about the missions he went on. Absolutely terrifying.
I flew home in 05 for leave wearing desert BDUs. Everyone else on the flight was wearing the same thing. New order?
Not to make you feel old, but that was eight years ago. It's not necessarily a new thing, lol.
You have to fly in civilians if you're not on the rotator where you can't leave the terminal for 17 hours. You also can't even go off base in places like Rammstein in uniform after those Airmen got shot on the bus.
High Tower
12-30-13, 11:06
Okay, if that's the new norm, I retract my previous position. Times change, and I can too. Thanks.
I hope I didn't come off like an a-hole with my response as that was not my intent. I've been in slightly similar circumstances and had a useless ammo NCO whining to me about it so its a little sore subject for me as it hasn't been that long ago. Wearing civvies over there can be abused and unit discipline can suffer to be sure, but when you have to put bullets in bad guys in a hurry what folks are wearing doesn't matter at all to me. The times have certainly changed, but if the guys in WWII, etc had as many bags to carry as we do I'm quite sure they would have brought their own clothes too.
He showed up to fight. That is all that matters to the guys standing next to him.
One night we had fire right outside the hescos I ran out side in the rain in flip flops, boxers, helmet and M4.
Duuuude Nooooo! Can you imagine how much time and money they would waste designing issued sleep wear! =)
Just go COTS......GO ARMaaaaaaaay! :jester:
22370
wild_wild_wes
12-30-13, 15:27
I love to read about Ancient Greece (Hellas). The is a story, perhaps apocryphal, about an older Spartan who rushed out from his house, naked, in the middle of the night to fight off some rebelling Helots. He fought bravely and the Helots were defeated, but afterwards he was fined for "not wearing his regulation armor" during the fight!
Lost River
01-06-14, 10:11
I have had fellow teammates respond to attacks in shower shoes, running shorts and PPE, or w/o PPE. A quick response was needed, period. I could care less if this dude was wearing full kit or just ranger panties. He showed up to fight, that is what matters.
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