View Full Version : Female Marines Pull-Up requirement delayed another year
platoonDaddy
12-28-13, 15:30
Shit I am few months shy of 71 and I can do 5. This is just plain wrong!
Females in the Marine Corps currently are not required to do even a single pull-up, and a deadline mandating that by Jan. 1, 2014, they be able to do at least 3 pull-ups as part of their training has been delayed for at least a year, the Corps quietly announced on social media.
Unlike their female counterparts, male Marines have long been required to do at least 3 pullups as part of the Physical Fitness Test (PFT). That's the minimum requirement for males.
http://cnsnews.com/news/article/barbara-boland/female-marines-not-required-do-1-pull
There's something to a woman's physique that inhibits the ability to perform pull-ups. It doesn't make it impossible but it does make a huge difference. My sibling sister works out regularly, does cardio, and is very fit. She still can't perform a pull-up (yet).
There are a number of levels on which women are physiologically incapable of equalling men. In particular they are poorly suited to carrying heavy loads while walking.
Eurodriver
12-28-13, 17:04
There's something to a woman's physique that inhibits the ability to perform pull-ups. It doesn't make it impossible but it does make a huge difference. My sibling sister works out regularly, does cardio, and is very fit. She still can't perform a pull-up (yet).
If female Marines can't meet the standard, they shouldn't get to play with the big boys.
Ever seen a female USMC O course? Everything is shorter.
Ever seen a battlefield? No such luxury there.
Honestly, who did not see this coming?
Women can do pull ups. Female gymnasts anyone? I see them do pull ups all the time in Crossfit. However, most women are not good at it and need additional conditioning to get good.
The good news is that in the Army Airborne School they have (re)added a pull up requirement because they had a fatality.
Right after original announcement a whole bunch of feminazis, that never served, at work were talking about it not taking a pair of testicles to pull a trigger :bad:
I am all for women in combat. I am not for changing any of the qualifications. Yes there will be far fewer women in than men. But that is just how it is. Women and men are built different. We develop muscles differently. Our brains develop slightly differently. That is just how it is.
Moose-Knuckle
12-28-13, 19:09
As my father would say . . .
"They can't all be Sarah Connor"
http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a144/AKS-74/sarahconnorpullup_zps4474c726.png (http://s10.photobucket.com/user/AKS-74/media/sarahconnorpullup_zps4474c726.png.html)
http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a144/AKS-74/sarahconnorAR_zpsf82a0f00.jpg (http://s10.photobucket.com/user/AKS-74/media/sarahconnorAR_zpsf82a0f00.jpg.html)
There's something to a woman's physique that inhibits the ability to perform pull-ups. It doesn't make it impossible but it does make a huge difference. My sibling sister works out regularly, does cardio, and is very fit. She still can't perform a pull-up (yet).
Yes. Does that mean that there are aspects of a woman's physique that also impairs their ability to drag a wounded 250 buddy out of the line of fire?
NCPatrolAR
12-28-13, 19:48
I see them do pull ups all the time in Crossfit.
Real pull-ups or Kipping?
Don't know but never heard of that as being an issue. *in ref to post #10
NCPatrolAR
12-28-13, 19:52
As my father would say . . .
"They can't all be Sarah Connor"
http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a144/AKS-74/sarahconnorpullup_zps4474c726.png (http://s10.photobucket.com/user/AKS-74/media/sarahconnorpullup_zps4474c726.png.html)
http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a144/AKS-74/sarahconnorAR_zpsf82a0f00.jpg (http://s10.photobucket.com/user/AKS-74/media/sarahconnorAR_zpsf82a0f00.jpg.html)
She's not doing pull ups either ;-)
Moose-Knuckle
12-28-13, 19:53
She's not doing pull ups either ;-)
Chin-ups don't count lol?
The good news is that in the Army Airborne School they have (re)added a pull up requirement because they had a fatality.
They changed pull ups to a 20 second flexed arm hang (i.e. the amount of time it takes a T-11 to "slip"). Also, as a gee-whiz input, the fatality was a man who did absolutely nothing he was trained to do, told to do, and then commanded to do via megaphone on the DZ.
They changed pull ups to a 20 second flexed arm hang (i.e. the amount of time it takes a T-11 to "slip"). Also, as a gee-whiz input, the fatality was a man who did absolutely nothing he was trained to do, told to do, and then commanded to do via megaphone on the DZ.
Oh I know. I have two female soldiers I have to get through jump school. When I went through Benning in 89 we actually had to do real pull ups.
Real pull-ups or Kipping?
Yes and yes. And chin ups too. It can be done. However, as many of us know, combat training is not an "event." It lasts for weeks - weeks that never seem to end.
sandman99and9
12-28-13, 23:21
Shit, I remember doing pull ups while waiting in line outside the chow hall at Benning :) " move like lightning, sound like thunder !!! "
S.M.
I'm surprised that the male minimum requirement is only three pull-ups. Has that always been the case going back to, say WWII ? I'm impressed that the female Marine stated she could only do one last year and is up to eight and setting her goal higher to twelve. Set higher goals to do better. Yep, she's good to go.
Nightvisionary
12-29-13, 00:28
I Have often wondered why women are so under represented in the NFL. Perhaps the NFL needs more linewomen.
I Have often wondered why women are so under represented in the NFL. Perhaps the NFL needs more linewomen.
And gender neutral Olympics, why because we would never see a woman on the podium again, but feminist ignore the physicality of military MOS and only speak of it as a job.
Why? Why do feminist really want women in the combat arms? Do they really think this is the last glass ceiling, or like most socialist do they want to weaken Western militaries?
I'm surprised that the male minimum requirement is only three pull-ups. Has that always been the case going back to, say WWII ? I'm impressed that the female Marine stated she could only do one last year and is up to eight and setting her goal higher to twelve. Set higher goals to do better. Yep, she's good to go.
The Marine PFT as it is today is around 40 years old.
Women can do pull ups. Female gymnasts anyone? I see them do pull ups all the time in Crossfit. However, most women are not good at it and need additional conditioning to get good.
The good news is that in the Army Airborne School they have (re)added a pull up requirement because they had a fatality.
How the heck are you going to slip right or left (ect.) if you can't pull yourself up in the risers? I didn't know they'd ever removed the requirement...
Shit I am few months shy of 71 and I can do 5. This is just plain wrong!
Females in the Marine Corps currently are not required to do even a single pull-up, and a deadline mandating that by Jan. 1, 2014, they be able to do at least 3 pull-ups as part of their training has been delayed for at least a year, the Corps quietly announced on social media.
Unlike their female counterparts, male Marines have long been required to do at least 3 pullups as part of the Physical Fitness Test (PFT). That's the minimum requirement for males.
http://cnsnews.com/news/article/barbara-boland/female-marines-not-required-do-1-pull
I saw a gal in the gym yesterday bang out what looked like 8-10 solid pull up , and I have personally taken gals from 0 pull ups, to being able to do multiple sets of them. It can be done, and they can do it. They may not be doing sets of 20 for sure, but there's no reason at all a woman can't do 3-5 pulls ups just as there's no reason men can't do what's required of them, which are not every strict to boot.
As younger people are only getting fatter and lazier, I don't expect that to improve sadly.
Physical fitness standards should be established to meet the requirements related to the job. Anyone who cannot meet the standards should not be placed in that particular job.
A lot of males cannot meet PFT standards for certain high stress jobs, so this is not a gender issue. Lowering standards to accommodate a female soldier or Marine is not fair to the female armed services member or good for operational readiness.
Physical fitness standards should be established to meet the requirements related to the job. Anyone who cannot meet the standards should not be placed in that particular job.
A lot of males cannot meet PFT standards for certain high stress jobs, so this is not a gender issue. Lowering standards to accommodate a female soldier or Marine is not fair to the female armed services member or good for operational readiness.
The reason that the PFT and CFT are not MOS specific is tied to the promotion system, you need a common standard to judge against all personnel for selection boards.
At least for me, when I sat on promotion and selection boards I only really compare PFT/CFT scores in the combat arms because I knew everyone was being tested under one standard, when it came to combat support and combat service support it is not a shared standard because women because of easier standards on average had slight higher scores.
Great maybe now I can become a Marine.
Devildawg2531
12-29-13, 12:00
The Marine PFT as it is today is around 40 years old.
Yes but around 1997 the USMC stopped allowing kipping on pullups and required dead hang pullups. I was glad as I never could kip.
Physical fitness standards should be established to meet the requirements related to the job.
The problem is, the enemy does not ask your gender or MOS before they blow you up. We now have extensive examples of women being in bone-i-fide combat. When you have to drag your buddy out of a burning MRAP, some upper body strength might be handy. Combat equipment general weighs around 60lbs and that has been the soldier load since the Roman Army. Your helmet, body armor, weapon, ammo and water does not care if you are a 120lb female. It is still going to weigh the same and may have to fight in it.
This is to say nothing of the routine manual labor chores done by soldiers. Ammo details, putting up tents, loading trucks, loading containers, mounting a .50 M2HB on a truck. All require strength and stamina because this work is often done all day long under miserable conditions. In my 20+ years of experience I routinely see female soldiers struggle with these tasks.
The problem is, the enemy does not ask your gender or MOS before they blow you up. We now have extensive examples of women being in bone-i-fide combat. When you have to drag your buddy out of a burning MRAP, some upper body strength might be handy. Combat equipment general weighs around 60lbs and that has been the soldier load since the Roman Army. Your helmet, body armor, weapon, ammo and water does not care if you are a 120lb female. It is still going to weigh the same and may have to fight in it.
This is to say nothing of the routine manual labor chores done by soldiers. Ammo details, putting up tents, loading trucks, loading containers, mounting a .50 M2HB on a truck. All require strength and stamina because this work is often done all day long under miserable conditions. In my 20+ years of experience I routinely see female soldiers struggle with these tasks.
I even saw males struggling when carrying and mounting our crew serve weapons. Not to mention loading up or faasv at a rp/ap. Nor do they have the strength or stamina for a 21 round fire mission. Or emplacing a M198.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M992_Field_Artillery_Ammunition_Support_Vehicle
There is a maximum of 90 conventional rounds in the two racks below. These need to be loaded in the same amount of time as your refueled. Think deadlifting 100lbs 90 times in a couple minutes.
http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=faasv+artilery&FORM=HDRSC2&id=1C97DFAB0F1B39F162B43FD32871DB0504DD16A4&selectedIndex=101#view=detail&id=1C97DFAB0F1B39F162B43FD32871DB0504DD16A4&selectedIndex=0
QuickStrike
12-29-13, 13:57
My lil sis can do 4 dead hang pull ups and used to deadlift twice her bodyweight. If they want to join up so bad they should have trained harder imo.
A short hair cut and a bitchy attitude can only get you so far, ya know?
Heavy Metal
12-29-13, 14:37
Real pull-ups or Kipping?
Mind reader!
"Real tomato Ketchup Eddie?" "Nothing but the finest Clark."
Whenever I see someone doing Kipping 'Pull-Ups' in a video, I just keep repeating "Zero, Zero, Zero........" in my mind. They shouldn't even be called pull-ups. actual pull-ups require...you know....pulling!
Heavy Metal
12-29-13, 14:39
Think deadlifting 100lbs 90 times in a couple minutes.
That's moving 4.8 Tons.
My lil sis can do 4 dead hang pull ups and used to deadlift twice her bodyweight. If they want to join up so bad they should have trained harder imo.
A short hair cut and a bitchy attitude can only get you so far, ya know?
This comment is on point.
In 2003 on the march up to Baghdad my battery had to do manual reload of our ammo trucks because we had to abandon the TREX because it could not keep up. The CLB sent the 155 ammo in trucks crewed by Women Marines, they sat in the cabs while my Marines and I moved all the round by hand because none of the women could lift HE rounds.
My lil sis can do 4 dead hang pull ups and used to deadlift twice her bodyweight. If they want to join up so bad they should have trained harder imo.
A short hair cut and a bitchy attitude can only get you so far, ya know?
Ain't that the truth! If the job requirements are the same then the standards developed to meet the requirements should be applied equally. What I'm afraid of happening is that they, the USMC under political pressure, will lower the standard for males in order for females to be judged as equals. This would affect the combat performance of the individual, squad, platoon, company, etc. The result would surely be an increase in casualties. I don't see an all female combat unit in their future, but rather an integrated unit so that shortcomings will be less obvious. We've seen this happen with our education system and employment in the job market. If the powers that be were to push for an all female unit, me thinks there would be a different standard established for what would be considered as "combat ready" when applied to females. It's true that pulling the trigger is not a gender specific requirement. Getting in position to do it under the time constraints on the battlefield can very well be.
In 2003 on the march up to Baghdad my battery had to do manual reload of our ammo trucks because we had to abandon the TREX because it could not keep up. The CLB sent the 155 ammo in trucks crewed by Women Marines, they sat in the cabs while my Marines and I moved all the round by hand because none of the women could lift HE rounds.
We never used it. Way too slow.
Real pull-ups or Kipping?
I'm quite sure any shenanigans that result in being able to see over the bar counts as a wookie pull up.
There are a few sports where women can compete on the same playing field - combat isn't one of them. We still are going to need competent trained FET Marines - preferably linguists, radio operators, PAO, and officers, but we need to be taking the creme of the lady Marines and grooming them for that task with the same selection rate criteria applied to Recon units - it's a mission that exists, and we want not only the fittest but the mentally toughest and the brightest of those that can hack it.
The few chicks that put in more than half the time my lazy ass did at the gym could all do at least a pull up, and none of them had a below 285 PFT (not all of them were good intermediate distance runners, but it's impossible to lose points elsewhere). The expectation is that women in the Corps are still expected to be first good garrison Marines and then second be actually useful is another holdover stigma we're stuck with because of poor policy making and dumb ideas forced onto leadership, but the intelligent solution planners are still left out of the equation, hence why we see this right alongside seeing women sent out without reasonable expectation of success to become infantry trained - just dumb.
Women can do pull ups. Female gymnasts anyone? I see them do pull ups all the time in Crossfit. However, most women are not good at it and need additional conditioning to get good.
The good news is that in the Army Airborne School they have (re)added a pull up requirement because they had a fatality.
Yea, lets sign up all those female gymnast for the Marines!
Not...
IMO physical ability is not the only thing that matters, but more importantly a person's mentality and strong will. I knew a couple of gymnasts back in h.s/college who can do 10 pull-ups easy, but I can bet you they do not have the toughness that it takes to be a soldier.
As mentioned, men and women's physiques are completely different. And I wouldn't have it differently (if women can get muscular like guys, thats just gross. There's one chick at my gym who looks like a dude and is more muscular than me (I'm 190lbs, 5'11") and she has a bigger back and shoulders than me. Not Sexy I tell ya
Yea, lets sign up all those female gymnast for the Marines!
Not...
IMO physical ability is not the only thing that matters, but more importantly a person's mentality and strong will. I knew a couple of gymnasts back in h.s/college who can do 10 pull-ups easy, but I can bet you they do not have the toughness that it takes to be a soldier.
As mentioned, men and women's physiques are completely different. And I wouldn't have it differently (if women can get muscular like guys, thats just gross. There's one chick at my gym who looks like a dude and is more muscular than me (I'm 190lbs, 5'11") and she has a bigger back and shoulders than me. Not Sexy I tell ya
Yea but a 80lb ruck still weighs 80lbs. You have to pull your 200lb battle to safety after getting wounded their weight doesn't change. You can either meet the physical standard or you can't.
All this BS about fairness and equality is always perpetuated by those who have no understanding of reality, either by their own choice or just ignorance. Sure they say they want equality but in the end they don't really want to be treated equal, they still want special accommodations.
Sent from my DROID X2
Yea but a 80lb ruck still weighs 80lbs. You have to pull your 200lb battle to safety after getting wounded their weight doesn't change. You can either meet the physical standard or you can't.
All this BS about fairness and equality is always perpetuated by those who have no understanding of reality, either by their own choice or just ignorance. Sure they say they want equality but in the end they don't really want to be treated equal, they still want special accommodations.
Sent from my DROID X2
Nailed it.
IZinterrogator
12-31-13, 02:45
How the heck are you going to slip right or left (ect.) if you can't pull yourself up in the risers? I didn't know they'd ever removed the requirement...I always found pulling the risers down was easier than pulling my heavy ass up to a bar. Of course, when I went to Airborne School, we still had to do ten pull ups to enter any building or start PT. But I definitely found slipping easier than pull ups.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.5 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.