View Full Version : IMI M855 or IMI M193?
Can only afford one case of IMI m855 or IMI m193 which one would u buy? One of my Ar15 is 1/7, 16" midlength other is 16" carbine 1/9
SpeedRacer
12-30-13, 21:59
What's the intended use?
Half of the case for practice and the other half for shtf stockpile. Most of my shooting between 25-200 yards
My opinion is that either will be fine for your purposes. Maybe cost will be your deciding factor?
I tend to stay away from green tip because the two ranges I like to frequent do not allow it.
SpeedRacer
12-31-13, 00:07
Half of the case for practice and the other half for shtf stockpile. Most of my shooting between 25-200 yards
As long as your range allows it, the M855 would be the way to go.
Two thirds of my stock is M855 and one third is M193. I prefer M855 because of its longer effective range and penetration capability for family protection.
The IMI is some outstanding ammo.
IMO, M855 is one of the poorest projectile designs in common use.
Accuracy and terminal performance both suffer from the 3 part construction.
I'd go with the M193 all day long.
I'm guessing that, like most places, your retailer sells 855 at a premium? With that I would be selecting the 193. Some people like the concept of the "penetrator" but for most of what I've seen, M193 will chew up a gong more than M855 does. If you aren't firing at Soviet helmets, the cheaper round allows you to buy more of them, or put more dollars towards range days.
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I would go with the M193.
By the way, if you want high quality 62gr FMJ (no steel), look at the CBC 5.56 that Grant stocks.
I agree. The M193 has always proven to be more accurate in my experience.
The IMI is some outstanding ammo.
IMO, M855 is one of the poorest projectile designs in common use.
Accuracy and terminal performance both suffer from the 3 part construction.
I'd go with the M193 all day long.
m193 all day long
i laughed my butt off when all the price gouging went on for"greentip"
M193 - not only cheaper, but for any civilian use it's a better terminally performing ammunition. Even seeing performance after passing through a windshield, I was impressed that 193 was only marginally worse, and penetrating vehicles is the biggest argument for even bothering with green tip as far as these two are concerned.
If you need 62gr to match BDC and stuff, I'd actually get just a small stock of soft point 62gr stuff if you need those as defensive loads - much better for practical use than 855.
Just Keep Swimming
12-31-13, 13:06
As a new guy to the AR world, as evidenced from my post count, I have a question for y'all regarding this topic. I purchased a DD M4V3 as my first AR earlier this year and on the advice of a friend that recently retired from the Army I purchased 3K rounds of 2013 production 62 grain green tip from LC as a stash so to speak. After reading this thread I am having one of those "oh crap I bought a Bushmaster" moments.
Should I be actively trying to trade this for 193 or am I being too obsessive as my needs are simply shooting at outdoor ranges, getting to know my rifle and of course the standard SHTF scenario?
Thanks for your input. Commence flaming the new guy ....
As a new guy to the AR world, as evidenced from my post count, I have a question for y'all regarding this topic. I purchased a DD M4V3 as my first AR earlier this year and on the advice of a friend that recently retired from the Army I purchased 3K rounds of 2013 production 62 grain green tip from LC as a stash so to speak. After reading this thread I am having one of those "oh crap I bought a Bushmaster" moments.
Should I be actively trying to trade this for 193 or am I being too obsessive as my needs are simply shooting at outdoor ranges, getting to know my rifle and of course the standard SHTF scenario?
Thanks for your input. Commence flaming the new guy ....
I would not worry about it.
If you use your AR for HD, then I suggest picking up some Gold Dots, or another soft point round.
Also, if it makes you feel better the military uses M855 for their standard 5.56mm, unless that has changed. It is far from the best, but it will work, if SHTF, anything is better than nothing.
As a new guy to the AR world, as evidenced from my post count, I have a question for y'all regarding this topic. I purchased a DD M4V3 as my first AR earlier this year and on the advice of a friend that recently retired from the Army I purchased 3K rounds of 2013 production 62 grain green tip from LC as a stash so to speak. After reading this thread I am having one of those "oh crap I bought a Bushmaster" moments.
Should I be actively trying to trade this for 193 or am I being too obsessive as my needs are simply shooting at outdoor ranges, getting to know my rifle and of course the standard SHTF scenario?
Thanks for your input. Commence flaming the new guy ....
Relax. I'm sure most of us on this board have both flavors. I think at last count I had about 10 different varieties of .223 and 5.56 (mainly "who's cheap this week?")
Just Keep Swimming
12-31-13, 13:58
Thanks Zane1844 and Caduceus. I appreciate you both taking the time to reply to such a newbie and "ocd" type question. I research this site endlessly, read and re-read all the stickies, look at the various ammo charts and try to make the most out of all the great information already out there. Sometimes ya just gotta ask!
And the soft point round was noted as well.
Cheers gentleman. I hope 2014 is a great one for you. Thanks again.
M193 - not only cheaper, but for any civilian use it's a better terminally performing ammunition. Even seeing performance after passing through a windshield, I was impressed that 193 was only marginally worse, and penetrating vehicles is the biggest argument for even bothering with green tip as far as these two are concerned.
...
Please provide any more information you have on M193 and windshield penetration. Thanks.
The IMI is some outstanding ammo.
IMO, M855 is one of the poorest projectile designs in common use.
Accuracy and terminal performance both suffer from the 3 part construction.
I'd go with the M193 all day long.
Winner! I do have some of the M855 but always prefer the M193.
The discussion thread here was really good, but has since gone dormant, but Doc Roberts posted the same content for the top info:
http://pistol-forum.com/archive/index.php/t-4344.html
http://www.dtic.mil/ndia/2008Intl/Roberts.pdf
I have a lot more links (probably mostly dead) in my computer from two laptops ago, but adding " DocGKR " to most any search on terminal ballistics tends to be a huge quality improvement, too bad his input here was undervalued as badly as it was.
Get the IMI M193 and be happy - wish I could afford another case. It's the best ammo I have in my SHTF pile.
The IMI is some outstanding ammo.
IMO, M855 is one of the poorest projectile designs in common use.
Accuracy and terminal performance both suffer from the 3 part construction.
I'd go with the M193 all day long.
No doubt. I have a nice stash of IMI M193. Besides my handloads I prefer it over anything else.
Even at $508 a case I'm finding it hard not to pickup one.
I agree. The M193 has always proven to be more accurate in my experience.
Especially past 200 yards in my experience. I don't even consider buying M855 any longer.
I've not tried any of the current IMI, and would buy neither of these at the current price... but Older IMI 855 shot quite respectably for me accuracy wise. Under 2" with irons one time. I prefer the extra weight of the SS109 for slinging longer ranges. I really will never buy M193 again... Even at a smokin good price. It's useless to me.
M193 is my practice / drill ammo. I shoot it mostly under 100 yds and plink steel with it out to 400 at times.
I'm a single stage reloader. If I had a progressive I'm sure I'd find a load with better performance for my high round count practice.
In 5.56 I'm only loading two rounds. 70gr Barnes TXS and 77gr SMK. By the way Mark. These two loads are based on your recommendation of H322. Damn good powder.
That powder is the best. I've not found a downside yet.
if you are talking IMI that wideners has, i bought some of the m193 and was able to print a 2 inch group at 100 yds with a colt 14.5 M4 barrel and a 4x scope.
i can't say the same for the federal M855 i have.
TacticalSledgehammer
01-16-14, 01:56
As a new guy to the AR world, as evidenced from my post count, I have a question for y'all regarding this topic. I purchased a DD M4V3 as my first AR earlier this year and on the advice of a friend that recently retired from the Army I purchased 3K rounds of 2013 production 62 grain green tip from LC as a stash so to speak. After reading this thread I am having one of those "oh crap I bought a Bushmaster" moments.
Should I be actively trying to trade this for 193 or am I being too obsessive as my needs are simply shooting at outdoor ranges, getting to know my rifle and of course the standard SHTF scenario?
Thanks for your input. Commence flaming the new guy ....
I know it sounds like I'm going against the grain here, but I think my DD m4v5 is slightly more accurate with the 855 than 193. Either way, you need to shoot it to see for yourself.
I know it sounds like I'm going against the grain here, but I think my DD m4v5 is slightly more accurate with the 855 than 193. Either way, you need to shoot it to see for yourself.
I purged ALL of my M193 from my stash. Sold it, or pulled it down for the brass. I do have a few thousand M855... but everything else is 75 or 77 grain.
M193 isn't a terrible stash ammo. But it didn't make sense because we shoot heavy bullets all year long.
Most indoor ranges won't let you shoot M855, so having some M193 on hand isn't such a bad idea...
Can only afford one case of IMI m855 or IMI m193 which one would u buy? One of my Ar15 is 1/7, 16" midlength other is 16" carbine 1/9
I recently purchased a case of G&RT's Magtech CBC M193 and ran three magazines through my BCM 16" BFH mid length and got the best 10 round groups at 50 yards that I've ever been able to produce (Vortex PST 1-4 mounted). I had remarkable (for me) success hitting steel at 200 & 300 yards with the stuff and a 50/200 zero. I've run Federal, PTAC (55/62), IMI (55/62), the Aussie ADI (62) and Lithuanian GGG (62) through all my carbines and nothing can touch the CBC for accuracy in my unskilled hands.
I'm a fan.
Just for hoots I ordered a case of the 62 grain CBC (lacking a steel penetrator, I think) to see how it compares. G&RT has had both flavors for the best price that I can find. It would be interesting to see comparisons regarding velocity, ballistics, etc., especially since the 62 grain bullet differs from standard types with the penetrators. Well beyond my capabilities.
Most indoor ranges won't let you shoot M855, so having some M193 on hand isn't such a bad idea...
It's funny because M193 is much more harsh on metal traps (assuming that's what they run) than M855. But they're the experts!
The traps on the range I'm speaking of appear to be full of chewed up car tires (at least that's what it looks like).
Hmmmm... not sure why they'd care about ss109. Maybe just the old mystique of the steel penetrator.
Hmmmm... not sure why they'd care about ss109. Maybe just the old mystique of the steel penetrator.
I have a feeling I know why: Concrete back wall, and behind that is the parking lot. Don't know what/how they reinforced that wall, but for whatever reason I'm glad to comply.
Hmmmm... not sure why they'd care about ss109. Maybe just the old mystique of the steel penetrator.
Steel insert + concrete floor/walls= spark. Not good when surrounded by tons of highly flammable shredded tires and high volume airflow.
This is a legit indoor range concern
Steel insert + concrete floor/walls= spark. Not good when surrounded by tons of highly flammable shredded tires and high volume airflow.
This is a legit indoor range concern
That could be the logic... but I don't buy it. We did an SS109 test firing them into a steel gong over top of a dry grass tinder pile. No fire... and there were sparks showering off the gong. I can appreciate erring on the extreme side of caution... but I bet it'd take an M249 to get some tires to catch.
No fire... and there were sparks showering off the gong. I can appreciate erring on the extreme side of caution... but I bet it'd take an M249 to get some tires to catch.
Its an insurance requirement, not optional for our local indoor ranges.
Also, remember the tires are shredded, and then shot repeatedly. The bottom layer ends up being essentially rubber dust. Add to that huge fans.
The two indoor ranges I'm familiar with have never had an issue, but they treat it very seriously.
Knowing how powders and air can combust/explode, I could see the risk. Ever seen a shop dust handler explosion?
I suppose. If a fire did start, It'd be a pain to put out.
The ranges I frequent do not allow any magnetic ammo in the summer for fire concerns. They are both outdoor ranges. After the dumb $#@!$ caused a number of fires by setting off tannerite in the middle of the summer in the Utah desert, everyone is very cautious about shooter-started fires. The gov'ment has started to close areas to shooting because of all of the shooter-started fires we've had over the last few summers.
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