View Full Version : New Keltec rifles at SHOT 2014
Is this real?
The "M43" looks so bizarre, I thought it was an early rifle prototype from the 1950s. I suppose the 5.56mm version of the RFB was inevitable, but why so long after the .308 version?
http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f392/BiteyMcClaws/pgiYU5x_zps0674da50.jpg~original (http://s51.photobucket.com/user/BiteyMcClaws/media/pgiYU5x_zps0674da50.jpg.html)
With Keltec real might be relative. Will the make them? Sure. Enough to meet market demand? Now there is the question.
Honestly wish they would focus on working the kinks out of their current weapon lines and get supply back up there. They have several very interesting ideas and several show promise if only demand was met and the bugs were worked out.
As far as a Bullpup M43, if it is real, and I don't doubt that it could be, what does this do that a Tavor or AUG don't?
HardToHandle
01-01-14, 00:31
M43 and the picture make me think some 1940's runner up to Mikael Kalashinov's design.
It took five years to see the RFB at neighborhood gunshows... Inless the 5.56 is $750 why try?
I have a very hard-to-shake attitude toward Keltec that equates "Keltec" with "crap."
It may not be rationale, or fair, but there it is.
My son has a Keltec pistol for CCW and has had nothing but problems with it.
Cagemonkey
01-01-14, 07:58
Their concepts seem sound. Its their product that seems lacking.
Is this real?
Yes, it's real.
I first heard about it through Oleg Volk back in October 2013.
He mentioned doing a photo shoot for a new Kel-Tec bullpup rifle in 5.56x45mm that was not based on the Kel-Tec RFB and was going to be debuted at the 2014 SHOT Show.
With Keltec real might be relative. Will the make them? Sure. Enough to meet market demand? Now there is the question.
Honestly wish they would focus on working the kinks out of their current weapon lines and get supply back up there. They have several very interesting ideas and several show promise if only demand was met and the bugs were worked out.
As far as a Bullpup M43, if it is real, and I don't doubt that it could be, what does this do that a Tavor or AUG don't?
if it's priced around a grand +/- a hundred bucks it'll cost less than the tavor and AUG, with that said they will be so far and few between price will be artificially driven up. The RFB has been out for 3 or 4 years now and it's still very difficult to find one.
LibertyNeverDies
01-01-14, 12:32
Even Kel Tec has its fan boys so it will sell. They will go for double the M.S.R.P for the first year or more and then down in price(still above MSRP) but still be impossible to find. I really have to wonder why they would come out with this when they could could have invested in increasing their production capabilities. It is the ugliest modern bullpup I've seen. I don't have faith that it will work either. 6.5 pressures in a Kel Tec also sound like a disaster waiting to happen.
I'll pass on anything Kel-Tec. Watched too many of then fail in our CCH classes.
eternal24k
01-01-14, 14:30
I am very confused as to why they would have the RDB and the M43.
I do like the M43's looks, it does look like a 1950s prototype, but i will most likely never have either.
I have a very hard-to-shake attitude toward Keltec that equates "Keltec" with "crap."
It may not be rationale, or fair, but there it is.
My son has a Keltec pistol for CCW and has had nothing but problems with it.
I'm on the same page as you here. Wouldn't be a company I'd ever spend $$$ on.
Keltec SERIOUSLY NEEDS to hire a Magpul plastic engineer. Looks like one of the requirements when Keltec is designing a gun is to make it as ugly as possible. Every gun they design looks cobbled together from malformed plastic pieces with miles of reinforcing ribs.
Just look at either example's buttstock and how it attaches.
The mag release looks like a thin piece of sheet metal.
Also, does Keltec own a screw manufacturing company or something? While other manufacturers try their best to lessen the use of screws, Keltec tries their best to use as many screws as possible.
REALLY WTF??
Well, I can still dream of somebody producing the Magpul PDR.
Moose-Knuckle
01-01-14, 17:53
The M43 has the apperance of retro prototype, maybe that was their plan. It looks like the bastard child of a . . .
Soviet Korobov TKB-022
http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a144/AKS-74/KorobovTKB-022_zpse2f1f67d.jpg (http://s10.photobucket.com/user/AKS-74/media/KorobovTKB-022_zpse2f1f67d.jpg.html)
and a . . .
British Enfield EM-2
http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a144/AKS-74/em2_zps3dc44700.jpg (http://s10.photobucket.com/user/AKS-74/media/em2_zps3dc44700.jpg.html)
KalashniKEV
01-01-14, 18:51
The M43 would be cool if it were all folded sheet metal and cost $400.
Keltec SERIOUSLY NEEDS to hire a Magpul plastic engineer.
Keltec is not capable of producing anything but junk guns... it's not that they're just missing this one guy with the knowledge to un-**** the entire operation.
They should sell their ideas to other companies to fix them up and get them across the finish line... like the Ruger LCP.
(but not like how the Masada turned into the ACR)
With Keltec real might be relative. Will the make them? Sure. Enough to meet market demand? Now there is the question.
Honestly wish they would focus on working the kinks out of their current weapon lines and get supply back up there. They have several very interesting ideas and several show promise if only demand was met and the bugs were worked out.
As far as a Bullpup M43, if it is real, and I don't doubt that it could be, what does this do that a Tavor or AUG don't?
The RDB looks like a decent bullpup, basically looks similar to a Tavor. It will most likely be priced half of what a Tavor may cost, so if the RDB sells for $1k or less (and is somewhat available) then it will be marketable.
I concur that Keltec desperately needs to improve product quality and availability. Although I hear they have good CS and warranty, and another plus is they are American made. That's probably where the pro's end...
It'll be interesting to see these new bullpups if they hit the LGS. I've already seen their KSG's but they are always overpriced.
KelTec is nothing to get excited about, unless you've bought one and it's giving you trouble.
Solution is to not buy it in the first place.
DreadPirateMoyer
01-01-14, 22:51
Has anyone here ever owned a Kel-Tec rifle? Their pistols are absolute piss junk, but I've never had a single issue or seen a single issue with any of their long guns/long gun platforms (owned a PLR-16 in the past).
Has anyone here ever owned a Kel-Tec rifle? Their pistols are absolute piss junk, but I've never had a single issue or seen a single issue with any of their long guns/long gun platforms (owned a PLR-16 in the past).
RFB and a plr16. Got rid of them both, but not because they gave me any trouble.
Also had a pf9 pistol which didn't give me any function problems through maybe 200 rounds. What it did do was chew the **** out of my hand so I couldn't really practice with it so I sold it.
Still have a p3at and it hasn't give me any function problems either.
Has anyone here ever owned a Kel-Tec rifle? Their pistols are absolute piss junk, but I've never had a single issue or seen a single issue with any of their long guns/long gun platforms (owned a PLR-16 in the past).
I've owned two Kel-Tec firearms. One handgun (P-32) and one rifle (SU-16CA). Neither gave me any troubles. Sold the SU-16CA to a friend that wanted it more than me. Still have the P-32, since 2004 it's been my main pocket gun (BUG) and have about 3000 rounds through it.
I can understand releasing the RDB, since it looks to be the 5.56mm little brother to their RFB, but the M43 just confuses me. Both will likely be impossible to find anywhere since Keltec seems to be more fond of creating new designs than manufacturing their current ones.
Has anyone here ever owned a Kel-Tec rifle? Their pistols are absolute piss junk, but I've never had a single issue or seen a single issue with any of their long guns/long gun platforms (owned a PLR-16 in the past).
Have a little experience with kel tec rifles. Mostly the Sub 2K, is that they are not the best quality out there. Run a couple Sub 2K back when they first came out and remember them not shooting well. Mostly POA/POI inpact issues that didn't change no matter how much we cranked the sights. I am talking 4 inches to the left and two inches low even at 10 yards. Supposedly this issue has been fixed, or can be fixed with a metal front sight, and perhaps if the Sub 2K were still $299 new I might buy one to play with in 9mm to run my 33rd Glock mags. But since I mostly see them used for $600-900 I will just go build another AR. Have only met one man with the RFB, I didn't get to shoot it, but he claimed it had feeding issues. Will caveat that though since I don't know what ammo he was running and have personally found some .308 semis to be more finicky with ammo, FMJ, BTHP, and SP not all feeding easily, so it could have been an ammo issue.
Has anyone here ever owned a Kel-Tec rifle? Their pistols are absolute piss junk, but I've never had a single issue or seen a single issue with any of their long guns/long gun platforms (owned a PLR-16 in the past).
I had a Sub2000 that seemed to be laser guided for the 800-1000 rounds fired while in my possession. I was never a big fan of the screw construction, but it didn't fail.
Doc. Holiday
01-02-14, 17:16
All I can say is.....UGLY!!!!
WickedWillis
01-02-14, 18:16
My 1st CCW was a Kel Tec PF9. It F2E, and FTF several times over the 50 rounds I put through it. It was promptly traded for an LCR. I bought it because it was inexpensive and I had heard good things at the time (One was Nutnfancy mind you). As I have gotten older (and wiser) I have no use for their handguns at all. The thought is usually good, considering they were very big in getting other companies in the small, single stack 9 market. Some people really do like their carbines and sub guns though, even on here. Other than a good price point, you get what you pay for IMO.
The one guy I know who had a RFB could get it running for about 100 rounds between trips back to KT.
He sold it and it broke the gas block less than 50 rounds later.
AFAIK it's still going back and forth between the new owner and KT.
Front ejection does solve the annoying handedness problem that bullpups have and FN has shown that it can work. KelTec, OTOH, isn't FN.
H
Keltech!!!! really!!! you can get a Tavor bullpup for about the same price. A real heavy duty military proven firearms V.S a plastic toy.
Doc. Holiday
01-03-14, 09:05
I give these rifles a 1,000 rounds before they blow up.
If only the front sight was taller.
I give these rifles a 1,000 rounds before they blow up.
That's years and years out of a KT. If the MTBTtF* is 50 rounds you'll probably get a decade out of it.
H
*Mean Time Between Trips to Factory
I just wish they would concentrate on getting a few more PMR 30's on the market [the .22 magnum handgun]. That is the only Kel tec I've ever been interested in.
Word from SHOT Show, says the Kel-Tec M-43 is made out of metal and wood, no polymer parts on it.
Does the bottom one have red Bakelite furniture? If so I'm buying the hell out of that! EDIT: Oh no Bakelite.:(
KalashniKEV
01-16-14, 13:26
I wonder if you can store extra YFS button head screws in the grip?
http://i1.ytimg.com/vi/Qp3UlHXJfEE/maxresdefault.jpg
KalashniKEV
01-16-14, 13:36
...just read the article that accompanied the photo above- apparently to release the mag, you push back on that bent piece of metal and the disposable pen pocket clip thing pops out of the catch in the mag.
What kind of last ditch, fall-of-the-Reich BS is that?!?
For $3K, there are other rifles, even other novelty guns I'd prefer.
"What kind of last ditch, fall-of-the-Reich BS is that?!?"
Pure comedy gold. Might steal that for my sig line when I get back to my PC.
Moose-Knuckle
01-16-14, 16:39
...just read the article that accompanied the photo above- apparently to release the mag, you push back on that bent piece of metal and the disposable pen pocket clip thing pops out of the catch in the mag.
What kind of last ditch, fall-of-the-Reich BS is that?!?
For $3K, there are other rifles, even other novelty guns I'd prefer.
No shit, I'd rather have shrubmaster . . .
What kind of last ditch, fall-of-the-Reich BS is that?!?
BWHAHA....excellent!
This bullpup just looks awful and cheap. Very Liberator pistol-like, obviously made of WWII era volks-stahl.
As cheap-looking the RFB is, it had a decent line-profile shadow and super compact for a .308. I was hoping the long rumored 5.56mm version would be a miniature copy of RFB. Alas not.
thopkins22
01-17-14, 23:13
If Keltec would put all of their energy into building a better sub2k instead of weird back of the closet guns for people that don't know any better, they'd change their image overnight.
Fix the sights, fix the plastic stock, make it so it doesn't feel like it was built in some dude's garage, and...profit.
Its feels even worse in person. It just oozes cheap. I was not impressed.
Please dear Lord, have someone at Magpul (who decides such things) fall and bump their noggin, wake up, and decide that producing the PDR-C and PDR-D is a great idea. Or at least, sell the concept to FN, or Ruger, or S&W, or ..........
LibertyNeverDies
01-19-14, 07:55
Please dear Lord, have someone at Magpul (who decides such things) fall and bump their noggin, wake up, and decide that producing the PDR-C and PDR-D is a great idea. Or at least, sell the concept to FN, or Ruger, or S&W, or ..........
Check out the Desert Tech MDR. It's the closest thing to the PDR I have seen. It is still at the development level so I'm sure there will be changes. The MDR has made me lose interest in other bullpup platform. Right them an email and say you'd like to see a less bulky rear of the gun so it can fill niche the PDR would have. They might take it into account. I am writing them tell them the feature/enhancements I would like added.
If Keltec would put all of their energy into building a better sub2k instead of weird back of the closet guns for people that don't know any better, they'd change their image overnight.
Fix the sights, fix the plastic stock, make it so it doesn't feel like it was built in some dude's garage, and...profit.
Profit??? Kel-tec doesn't even produce enough inventory for the guns already designed that people will buy NOW. They are not in the business for profit. Apparently, they are an R&D company, AND just as a hobby.:blink:
Check out the Desert Tech MDR. It's the closest thing to the PDR I have seen. It is still at the development level so I'm sure there will be changes. The MDR has made me lose interest in other bullpup platform. Right them an email and say you'd like to see a less bulky rear of the gun so it can fill niche the PDR would have. They might take it into account. I am writing them tell them the feature/enhancements I would like added.
I agree. The MDR prototypes do have a J-Lo-esque thing going on and could use a diet in the butt area. However, I wonder if it is necessarily large to house part of the mechanism in there, or is it some butt cellulite for the purpose of "storing a cleaning kit."
LibertyNeverDies
01-20-14, 12:36
Haha. I have no idea but an AR or SCAR's mechanical parts don't go that deep. I'd guess it's more more balance, looks, or feel.
Haha. I have no idea but an AR or SCAR's mechanical parts don't go that deep. I'd guess it's more more balance, looks, or feel.
I agree, the operating parts shouldn't go that deep.
On the AUG and FS2000 bullpups, they have near-useless storage areas down in the same area. Cavernous too. My GF parks her Smart car in my FS2000's butt storage space.
The ENTIRE purpose of a bullpup is to take advantage of its compact envelope. Not look for ways to bulk it up.
It certainly isn't for balance as bullpups are already waaay weight-biased towards the rear by their very nature.
If they think that extra material makes it look better...it doesn't.
If it is indeed useless butt cellulite (Is that redundant?)....They should get rid of it. Especially on the "C" model.
Even with the regular model, the horizontal front handguard looks disproportionately smallish, compared to that large butt. Sorta like a Tyrannosaurus Rex with it's tiny arms and thick legs.
In contrast, the Magpul PDR-C and PDR-D prototypes appear visually proportionate and svelte.
If it is for feel, they should shorten it with a picatinny rail on the bottom....so an optional "buttplate extender with cleaning kit storage" can Quick Attach on for those with huge, Hulk-like shoulders.
Even the updated model of the Tavor has reduced the buttplate height in their latest X95 version.
Regardless, I wish Desert Tech the best. Because system reliability takes priority, especially in a new design.
Yet another Kel-Tec I'll never see at my LGS. Their .308 has been out for years? Never seen one. I guess I'm not missing anything. Still, I would like to find a PMR-30. Got to shoot one at my local indoor range. Wow! Huge fireball and zero recoil.
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