View Full Version : "Colt" Barnaul Ammo
Does anyone have experience with this stuff through a LE6920? I'm looking for some cheap ammo for a carbine course and my usual Brown Bear is out of stock....but they have this.
I specifically mentioned my 6920 because Brown Bear is the only cheap ammo that cycles my rifle (actually even this will short stroke in really cold weather) I assume this is because of Colts gas port size in combo with the H buffer.
Is this just brown bear with a zinc coating? I would have to buy a minimum of 500 rounds. Thanks.
22611
It's the same as MFS/Silver Bear. I've shot many thousands of them without issue. I far prefer it to Tula or Wolf.
ETA: my use is through BCM midlengths, including a 14.5" w/H buffer.
From what I can tell it's re-badged Silver Bear. Looks like it and shoots like it. I can't get it to cycle reliably in my BCM middy and didn't feel like dicking around with it. Pretty weak sauce stuff from my experience.
Heavy Metal
01-08-14, 19:51
I call it 'Silver Horse'.
Hmm, I'm thinking that if it works in a middy it's should definitely work in a carbine. Can I assume BCM uses the same gas port size as Colt?
I also may pick up a lighter buffer to run a wider range of cheap ammo.
Unsure of port sizes, but simply switching to a carbine buffer would likely allow it to run in the weaker ammo, then you could move back as necessary with full power stuff.
I've run it in a PSA 16" middie, a BCM 16" middie and a 14.5 BCM middie. All H buffers, all ran it without issue.
As a matter of fact, the only ammo that will occasionally short stroke the 14.5 is Wolf. The 16's run it all without issue.
A buddy and I bought several cases of it together a couple years ago and all his stuff ran it fine also.
It has worked for me. Others may offer differing opinions. I run my stuff fairly clean and dripping wet with quality lube, just for reference.
Good luck.
RogerinTPA
01-08-14, 22:18
I've shot about 10K+ of brown bear, around 5K of golden tiger, and 50K+ of wolf, both lacquer and polymer through 2 x 6920s, 1x LMT MRP, 2 x Daniel Defense, for personal range time and several carbine courses over the years. Keep the Bolt, carrier lubed well, as well as the chamber, and you'll be fine. There are those who say not to lube the chamber, but I have found it has totally eliminated the occasional stuck case issues. Also, clean the chamber well before switching to brass cased ammo or you will see stuck cases.
Here is some Brown Bear: http://www.jgsales.com/featured_products.php
I've shot about 10K+ of brown bear, around 5K of golden tiger, and 50K+ of wolf, both lacquer and polymer through 2 x 6920s, 1x LMT MRP, 2 x Daniel Defense, for personal range time and several carbine courses over the years. Keep the Bolt, carrier lubed well, as well as the chamber, and you'll be fine. There are those who say not to lube the chamber, but I have found it has totally eliminated the occasional stuck case issues. Also, clean the chamber well before switching to brass cased ammo or you will see stuck cases.
Here is some Brown Bear: http://www.jgsales.com/featured_products.php
Thanks for the link. Good price but they don't have much inventory.
I do keep a chamber brush handy however and luckily I have never had a stuck case with Brown Bear. Even switched back and forth with brass w/o cleaning the chamber at some club events.
With Wolf, my rifle is single shot. This only happened with Brown Bear when I had the rifle out in the car overnight at around 10F.
I've shot about 10K+ of brown bear, around 5K of golden tiger, and 50K+ of wolf, both lacquer and polymer through 2 x 6920s, 1x LMT MRP, 2 x Daniel Defense, for personal range time and several carbine courses over the years. Keep the Bolt, carrier lubed well, as well as the chamber, and you'll be fine. There are those who say not to lube the chamber, but I have found it has totally eliminated the occasional stuck case issues. Also, clean the chamber well before switching to brass cased ammo or you will see stuck cases.
Roger,
Have you noticed any accuracy degradation on the rifles that are approaching the 10k round count? I ask because I read an interesting post on the akforum where the poster shot exclusively bi-metal ammo out of a SLR106 and the barrel was trashed around the 7k mark. I wonder what the composition differences are between the barrels if you haven't.
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Since it's COLT, you know it's HP/MPI'd ammo. :meeting:
Since it's COLT, you know it's HP/MPI'd ammo. :meeting:
Clearly the reason I've been buying it, to be sure. :)
Keep that between us here.... or EVERYONE will be buying it up.
Anyone know where I can pick up a truckload of this stuff? I hear that despite the fit/finish might not be the greatest, it IS the the gold standard of ammo. After all, they do own the TDP.
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RogerinTPA
01-09-14, 18:08
Roger,
Have you noticed any accuracy degradation on the rifles that are approaching the 10k round count? I ask because I read an interesting post on the akforum where the poster shot exclusively bi-metal ammo out of a SLR106 and the barrel was trashed around the 7k mark. I wonder what the composition differences are between the barrels if you haven't.
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One of my 6920's I had rebarreled a few months ago had just over 20K, with mostly Wolf ammo shot through it and used in several carbine courses over the years. It was still grouping inside 3 inches at 100 yards the last time I fired it, with no yaw type holes in the target. Based on the data out there, and what I've experienced, I believe excessively worn barrels are attributed to high rates of fire more so, than rounds fired through it. If you're doing mag dumps on a regular bases, I wouldn't expect the barrel to last very long. I know the 'bubba' in all of us peaks out at some time, and the urge to do endless mag dumps can over come the best of us, but the weapon is an AR, not a belt fed. The barrel should last quite a while if operated accordingly. As far as barrel differences of the AK vs a Colt barrel, thats a pay grade a little more higher than I can adequately speak of.
One of my 6920's I had rebarreled a few months ago had just over 20K, with mostly Wolf ammo shot through it and used in several carbine courses over the years. It was still grouping inside 3 inches at 100 yards the last time I fired it, with no yaw type holes in the target. Based on the data out there, and what I've experienced, I believe excessively worn barrels are attributed to high rates of fire more so, than rounds fired through it. If you're doing mag dumps on a regular bases, I wouldn't expect the barrel to last very long. I know the 'bubba' in all of us peaks out at some time, and the urge to do endless mag dumps can over come the best of us, but the weapon is an AR, not a belt fed. The barrel should last quite a while if operated accordingly. As far as barrel differences of the AK vs a Colt barrel, thats a pay grade a little more higher than I can adequately speak of.
That's impressive, 20,000 rounds. Your theory regarding rate of fire being the issue is a reasonable one.
That's impressive, 20,000 rounds. Your theory regarding rate of fire being the issue is a reasonable one.
I can't imagine that barrel being done in only 20k unless there was some heavy firing schedules. I'm wondering what ammo and sights were used to get the 3" final grouping...
I can't imagine that barrel being done in only 20k unless there was some heavy firing schedules. I'm wondering what ammo and sights were used to get the 3" final grouping...
I thought 20k was impressive in light of this: http://www.luckygunner.com/labs/brass-vs-steel-cased-ammo/
RogerinTPA
01-22-14, 10:40
The test parameters stated a sustained high rate of fire for the 20k rounds fired. All fired in a 3 day weekend. It was as far a way from reallity as the back side of the moon. If they would have taken a year to shoot it with a more normal and typical firing schedule, it would have been closer to the reality of someone who trained a lot from this forum. I would nt say the test was completely pointless, but it was close.
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Yeah... that was some goofball shit. There was an article published nearly 10 years back were some idiot killed a colt barrel in 10k rounds.
Shoot... I had a Bushmaster barrel that was over 30k.... likely near 40k and it was still shooting acceptable groups for practice stuff... maybe 3 MOA or so. I only rotated it out because it was so overgassed.
There are several ways to determine a barrels serviceability, and I don't consider round count to be a very good one.
First would be accuracy acceptability.... next I'd check throat errosion with a gauge or that bullet jump gadget that we use for handloading. If I can push a bullet completely out of the case neck before it hits the lands, then I'm a little uncomfortable... but I still refer back to Accuracy.
RogerinTPA
01-22-14, 17:26
I can't imagine that barrel being done in only 20k unless there was some heavy firing schedules. I'm wondering what ammo and sights were used to get the 3" final grouping...
I'm of the opinion that my barrel wasn't shot out. I decided to change it out before it got to that point, for preventive maintenance and, coincidentally, Rainier Arms got the Medcon barrel I've been waiting for, back in stock.
https://www.rainierarms.com/?page=shop/detail&product_id=3279
The ammo used before barrel replacement was 55 gr IMI M193, believe it or not, using a standard H-1 2 moa RDS shooting 5 shot groups. I know I should have done 10 rounds, but I was running out of time.
I bought 100 rnds of this stuff recently. No malfunctions from my 10.3" DD MK18. I was even able to make consistent hits on a 10" plate at 300 yards with my H1.
The ammo used before barrel replacement was 55 gr IMI M193, believe it or not, using a standard H-1 2 moa RDS shooting 5 shot groups. I know I should have done 10 rounds, but I was running out of time.
I'm a 5 round group fan for most applications. We'll send a few more if we're seeing weird stuff.... but more than 5 and I start introducing too much shooter error.
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