When does the talk end?

[hillmillenia]

I'm a father of a 27 yr old dauter and 16 yr old son. I have two grandboys 7 and 4 with a granddaughter due in July. I work hard, pay my taxes and obey the law. The last thing I ever want to see is this country embroiled in another revolution. As an NRA member and a very conservative registered Independent who generally votes Republican. I get it that we need to get out there and vote. You have no reason to gripe if you don't. Problem is, our choices have become so limited. We are inundated by proffessional self serving polititians bent on the power of office. Honestly, the majority of politicians out there should be brought to trial on treason charges...Oh that's right, they are immune. We're selling our country to foriegn investors and this whole oil and Iraq thing is a joke, except to those who have lost loved ones. When do we take it back? without the second ammendment the others are worthless. You and I know where this is going. I read a quote from Edward Abbey from 1979. "Let us hope our weapons are never needed --but do not forget what the common people knew when they demanded the Bill of Rights: An armed citizenry is the first defense, the best defense, and the final defense against tyranny. If guns are outlawed, only the government will have guns. Only the police, the secret police, the military, the hired servants of our rulers. Only the government -- and a few outlaws. I intend to be among the outlaws." I'm not afraid to die for the USA or the constitution. Have we become a country of passive television addicted followers? Please explain why these feelings are wrong. And what effective methods you recomend to reinstate our country. We are a mere 300 million But we lead in every technological advance the world knows. Am I to lay down my arms and accept the liberal view of a one world economic utopia? My heart tells me we better get our act together or it's game over! :mad:

[Safetyhit]

This has been a point of conversation a lot here recently, amongst many an intelligent individual. That said, no one has come up with one legit way to get the job done. Phony, disillusioned politicians are a mainstay here for some damn reason, and I for one lost my magic "wave and make them go away" stick somewhere between the couch cushions. :mad:


Sadly, sometimes one must hit bottom before one can start to climb to the top.

[Seth Harness]

A good start to reinstate our country is to teach those grandchildren what you believe in, what else is there. I fear for my own kids lives. To much control will only throw our country into peril if you ask me. Regulate and punish the bad guys not the good guys who have done nothing wrong.

To whom it may concern;

I was driving home from work the other day and heard a commercial on the radio for a new car with a certain "on" board computer system you can get as an option to send you vehicle diagnostic reports on your vehicles status via E-mail, oil change, trans fluid change and who knows what else........ Are you kidding me??! OH! and you have to pay for this service. Why not just get out, pop the hood and check it yourself. This society of pay $100 to save 10 minute makes me ill. I dont know, isnt that just lazyness. The song playing in the background of the commercial said " I cant stop thinking about it" and I was thinking I couldnt stop thinking about how rediculous it sounded.

...Or maybe Im just over reacting or missing something.
I dont really know if this has anything to do with this thread. I just hope this isnt the direction of our society.

Sorry if I offended anyone, just ranting.

[Low Drag]

For those of you that are interested I have McCain's official position paper. PM me and I can email it to you. There is a section on gun rights that's a world away from either of the dems....

[Gutshot John]

Phony disillusioned politicians are a mainstay of politics...everywhere. A virtuous society keeps them in check. As our nation has lost its republican virtue, preferring to indulge its whims rather than its duty, the politicians have lost that check.

Political interest serves itself. Accept it and work within a system that is built around this precept. This is the brilliance of our constitution. It doesn't aspire to idealistic reverie to keep men in check, but rather uses ambition against itself.

If this system has broken down it's because we've tampered far too often with its structure.

[adh]

Have we become a country of passive television addicted followers?

The answer to that is unfortunately yes and that is part of the problem...in a recent local election two of my neighbors chose to stay at home and not get out to vote (it only took me about 15 minutes to leave the house and have been at city hall to vote and be back in my car on the way home). I imagine they were both at home watching TV

[Hootiewho]

Two of the biggest problems were have (as a country) are Living in Denial and Instant Gradification.

Many of our other problems can be stemmed back to these two.

Ex. living in denial about how much of your paycheck goes to support those who sit around on thier porch drinking all day and slinging dope. If the average Joe had to sit down every week and write the IRS out a check for the amount of taxes that are taken out of his check, he'd flip out. Especially if he got an itemized bill, showing that exactly X amount of dollars are going to welfare, and Y amount are going to making bombs. Don't get me wrong, I have no problem at all paying to have bombs made, as I perfer my tax money go to support our troops; but the welfare part kills me.

Ex. Instant Gradification, too many people, especially the corporate excutives are looking out for their own pocket books, and not working for a productive future for the company or the country. Selling out to foreign countries, or hiring illegal immigrants right now, so they can have more money right now is killing our industry and workforce.

Rant off.

[variablebinary]

Have we become a country of passive television addicted followers?

The answer to that is unfortunately yes and that is part of the problem...in a recent local election two of my neighbors chose to stay at home and not get out to vote (it only took me about 15 minutes to leave the house and have been at city hall to vote and be back in my car on the way home). I imagine they were both at home watching TV

Technically Saddam was voted for...casting a ballot isnt always the right solution

The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.

[mmike87]

There are no "Americans" anymore. We've lost our national and cultural identity. We have no sense of national unity, we only have two sides that refuse to live together.

The BEST we can hope for is a peaceful split of the country into two countries - one a socialist nanny state that submits to the will of the UN and the other hopefully something folks like most of us would be proud to live in.

I fear for my children's future. It's bad enough when I have to de-program my 8 years old of the liberal tripe they preace in his 2nd grade class.

"Yes son, write THIS ... but BELIEVE this ..."

Sad to have to do that, I fear visits from Social Services these days if I don't actively "celebrate" what the school tells my son to celebrate.

[sproc]

A good start to reinstate our country is to teach those grandchildren what you believe in

You, sir, are a terrorist. In fact, you're as bad as this man, who was found to be exposing innocent Boy Scouts to the Constititution.

http://www.google.com/search?q=terrorism+bible+college+Boy+Scouts+constitution

ETA: I'm looking for a confirmation of that story by a more mainstream organization. If anybody sees one, please post it. In the mean time, take this with a grain of salt.

[hillmillenia]

Speaking about leaches of society, there is a house across the street, traffic coming and going all hours. police have raided this house on numerous occasion and yet they are usually back at it the same day.Small children, teens and adult living there. They have several dogs, untagged that roam relatively freely. The pit and rot got ahold of my beagle last night, fortunately I got to her before they killed her but she is tore up pretty bad...neck bite wounds. I pulled the rot off of her and threw the dog across the yard the pit jumped as the owner came running across the street screaming at me for throwing his dog! Did I mention my little beagle was on a leash? At this point he commanded both dogs to kill...kill me and my dog! I got a little tore up once again prying his dog off of mine. My wife, bless her heart was standing off the pit and dialing 911. 45 minutes later the police arrived. The guy had taken his dogs and drove away with them. I filed a report while trying to stop the bleeding on my dog and my arm. Then I asked the question. Would I have been in my rights to shoot the attacking dog? He explained that I could face a felony cruelty to animal charges if I killed the dog for attacking my dog! I asked if this applies to K9 units as well and his answer was no. You think I was irate? He did add I would be justified using deadly force if the dog was attacking me. Oh no shit? So I took Friday off and went to the vet. Abby will be fine though her spirit is low. Now I have to live in fear of retaliation. This doesn't really go with the theme of my original post but is another example of how we are losing control of our lives and laws that work in favor of scum. I am CCW licensed and hope to never have to use deadly force on man or beast...well not counting game...These same dogs have chased my wife and I off our front porch on previous evenings. I guess and could stand my ground and take a leg bite before dispatching the hounds but it's not the dogs fault. They are constantly training them to fight over there. I certainly hope the law does it's job soon!:rolleyes:

[hillmillenia]

You, sir, are a terrorist. In fact, you're as bad as this man, who was found to be exposing innocent Boy Scouts to the Constititution.

http://www.google.com/search?q=terrorism+bible+college+Boy+Scouts+constitution

ETA: I'm looking for a confirmation of that story by a more mainstream organization. If anybody sees one, please post it. In the mean time, take this with a grain of salt.

Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1) - Cite This Source
ter·ror·ist Audio Help /ˈtɛrərɪst/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[ter-er-ist] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun 1. a person, usually a member of a group, who uses or advocates terrorism.
2. a person who terrorizes or frightens others.
3. (formerly) a member of a political group in Russia aiming at the demoralization of the government by terror.
4. an agent or partisan of the revolutionary tribunal during the Reign of Terror in France.
–adjective 5. of, pertaining to, or characteristic of terrorism or terrorists: terrorist tactics.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Origin: 1785–95; terror + -ist; cf. F terroriste]


Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1) - Cite This Source
pa·tri·ot Audio Help /ˈpeɪtriət, -ˌɒt or, especially Brit., ˈpætriət/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[pey-tree-uht, -ot or, especially Brit., pa-tree-uht] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun 1. a person who loves, supports, and defends his or her country and its interests with devotion.
2. a person who regards himself or herself as a defender, esp. of individual rights, against presumed interference by the federal government.
3. (initial capital letter) Military. a U.S. Army antiaircraft missile with a range of 37 mi. (60 km) and a 200-lb. (90 kg) warhead, launched from a tracked vehicle with radar and computer guidance and fire control.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Origin: 1590–1600; < MF patriote < LL patriōta < Gk patrités fellow-countryman, lineage member]


I'm confused? This IS The United States of America isn't it? Press 1 for terrorist...press 2 for patriot... Now I've got to watch over my shoulder for my druggy neighbors as well as the secret service? So what happened to the first ammendment?:confused:

[Severian]

blank

[adh]

Technically Saddam was voted for...casting a ballot isnt always the right solution

The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.

Correct, but it is a great example of the apathy that plagues our country

[hillmillenia]

Did you call animal control? I don't know where you live man, but here, if any dog bites a human being, it is captured and put to death. The owners also get charged with some pretty heavy stuff. The fact that it was loose on your property would make it a no-brainer.

As soon as your neighbor returns with the dog I would get on the horn to the police and to animal control and get it removed. I'd call a lawyer and find out what other actions you can take against the owner. It's possible the cop is wrong, you may also be justified in shooting the dog if it crosses onto your property.

I'm a dog lover myself and I hate to see the animals abused and raised by the wrong type of owners. My current pit bull / bullmastiff mixed-breed is the most calm, gentle dog I've ever had.

Thanks man, I know I got off topic with the dog incident but it is another example of the erosion of society. The officer told me that animal control will be called to the house as the dogs were/are not tagged and he'll need proof of vacination. Of course I've seen animal control over there before and they did nothing but put the dogs in the yard. I'm in Oklahoma and after a lengthy talk with the responding officer I was left somewhat disillutioned. I'll read up on the subject but at this point I'm just glad my dog is alive and my wounds are minor. It's only a matter of time before these people go down.

[Seth Harness]

You, sir, are a terrorist.

HUH. I dont know whether to be pissed off by that remark or just say "OK". I guess I dont get what your trying to say...:confused:

[hillmillenia]

HUH. I dont know whether to be pissed off by that remark or just say "OK". I guess I dont get what your trying to say...:confused:

Look up here...I started this thread and I take no offense to the term as the poster knows I'm no terrorist. He refers to a faction of our country that would make such a claim due to this liberal foolishness going on. We all see the agenda of these peoiple though it makes no sense to any one with the gift of common sense or in possession of some twisted desire to control us by forcing their lack of morality on us. Take the gay and lesbian movement for example and the recent court rulings in California regarding such unions. Prolife or abortion is another hot topic...bickering back and forth over when an embryo is considered a life. I have no right to tell another person how to live or what decision to make with their own body but this country was established with a moral standard and our freedom of expression has been used to a twisted extreme. But then I think, we moved here and practically commited racial genocide against the native American Indian to establish this country. Please somebody take this damned soap box away...these feelings, like slavery only cause bad feelings....yeah we ****ed up in the past as has every generation back to Adam. Perhaps we really are intelligent animals!:mad:

[Gutshot John]

But then I think, we moved here and practically commited racial genocide against the native American Indian to establish this country.

Thread drift...

Claims of genocide against the Indians have been historically overblown. I'm not saying that the conquest was benign, but genocide is a crime of intent, not of result. There was never a policy of extermination on a government level.

Moreover I'd bet most Americans have "native" blood running through their veins if their families have been here longer than a century. I didn't even know I had any until my sisters and I had DNA tests done. I thought I was German and Scotch-Irish.

Cultural assimilation is different than racial genocide. There is an excellent book called The Name of War by Jill LePore that deals with notions of Native v. American identity in war.

Back on topic...

I think most people are intelligent animals and need laws to hold them in check. There are citizens however that understand their duty to society and seek to transcend their baser instincts. There will always be tension between those two groups.

"All boys love liberty, till experience convinces them they are not so fit to govern themselves as they imagined." - Samuel Johnson

[sproc]

HUH. I dont know whether to be pissed off by that remark or just say "OK". I guess I dont get what your trying to say...:confused:

The intent was that you'd be pissed off at the tyrants described in that article I referenced.

[hillmillenia]

Thread drift...

Claims of genocide against the Indians have been historically overblown. I'm not saying that the conquest was benign, but genocide is a crime of intent, not of result. There was never a policy of extermination on a government level.

Moreover I'd bet most Americans have "native" blood running through their veins if their families have been here longer than a century. I didn't even know I had any until my sisters and I had DNA tests done. I thought I was German and Scotch-Irish.

Cultural assimilation is different than racial genocide. There is an excellent book called The Name of War by Jill LePore that deals with notions of Native v. American identity in war.

Back on topic...

I think most people are intelligent animals and need laws to hold them in check. There are citizens however that understand their duty to society and seek to transcend their baser instincts. There will always be tension between those two groups.

"All boys love liberty, till experience convinces them they are not so fit to govern themselves as they imagined." - Samuel Johnson

Thank you for that. You are absolutley correct on all points. As a matter of fact we must be related cause I have American Indian,german,and Irish in my blood as well!:D Seriously though, you are correct the term "Genocide" was too strong a word. Human history is a tapestry of expansion and conquering for land. As for that animal instinct we all possess, We have , over the centuries, created a very thin veneer we call civilization. It never ceases to amaze me how quickly it crumbles in some circumstances and yet how fast we are to respond to the needs of people following some disaster.

As for the thread, I really would like to keep our bill of rights intact including the 2nd ammendment. I can only encourage everyone to vote and for those voters, encourage your friends to vote. and when gift time comes around, give an NRA membership...you know just that simple act would at least double membership as we all know somebody with a birthday or something coming up. And by all means, give it as a gift to your liberal friends!:)

[Seth Harness]

The intent was that you'd be pissed off at the tyrants described in that article I referenced.

Thats kind of what I figured. Im sorry about my misunderstanding, when I see or hear that word I guess I get... Weird, obviously. :D

My kids will know about our constitution and our bill of rights. This is the basis of our country, its integral to understand these important aspects. That story is staggeringly disturbing to say the least. I wonder if this is eventually going to happen with the Pledge of allegiance in our schools. I consider my kids lucky to grow up in the home their in, I feel sorry for children who grow up not feeling the fundamental importance of our history and the bloodshed that continues our freedoms...

My wife called me at work today and told me that while her and my daughters were in the car together my 2 year old said, "mommy do you know why we say thank you to soldiers" my wife knowing what she was going to say, said "why" my 2 year old said "because they fight for our freedom"....
When she told me that I almost started crying. I had shivers up my spine and goose bumps on my legs. These are the kind of things I teach my children to see as important, along with strong morals and obligation to responsibility. God bless our children.

[C2Q]

When I find myself asking "What do I do, where do I start?" concerning these topics: I am led to prayer.

From prayer I am guided to other steps from Voting to Homeschooling to Petitioning to Finiancially supporting organizations to being more bold with my conversations with my far-left, liberal-socialist members of my family who believe I am completely nuts! etc. etc.

[Safetyhit]

Speaking about leaches of society, there is a house across the street, traffic coming and going all hours. police have raided this house on numerous occasion and yet they are usually back at it the same day.Small children, teens and adult living there. They have several dogs, untagged that roam relatively freely. The pit and rot got ahold of my beagle last night, fortunately I got to her before they killed her but she is tore up pretty bad...neck bite wounds.



Fight trained Pit Bulls roaming freely, even after biting another dog and now you? Orders by the owner for the dogs to "kill", then they attack? Drug raids with children living there? Traffic all hours of the night?

I am not saying that you are exaggerating, but this sounds like a group that should have been disbanded (and jailed) long ago. Either you are inflating the facts or your police are incompetent and should be sued for failure to protect the minors living there alone. Hard to imagine anyone getting away with so much for so long.

[hillmillenia]

I live in "Enid" Oklahoma. Remember Jeff Foxworthy's take on Enid,OK.? It's not far from the truth. As for the law enforcement community, I have nothing but respect for anybody that would take on that job. I don't know about what training regimine they undergo, I can tell you I was offered a job as a cop in a small town close to here "I am not CLEET certified" that had no law enforcement and was being overrun by drug labs and delinquent teens...I turned it down. It's difficult to imagine the cultural shock I suffered when I first moved here from the socialist West coast. We have a lot of wanna be gang bangers. The chief of police and the DA are an item and in my opininion a conflict of interest. It has been said the DA has been seen...well..never mind, I won't make a statenment I can't confirm. But you get the idea. several law enforcement people in surrounding towns have been busted for meth. The Pit bull thing has become an issue down in Oklahoma City, but I have to agree you can't pick out a single breed to ban. All dogs will bite in the right circumstance. This also shows of ignorant knee jerk reaction of people who want to ban anything that might cause harm because of somebody's incompetence. Like my dog being attacked, I would blame the owner for first, raising an aggressive animal and secondly allowing it to roam without supervision. The responding officer can only dictate law as he understands it and the law states I can't use deadly force to protect my dog...but the next time the dog WILL be attacking me...then the shit will be on..keep 'em strapped on!

[JediMindTricks]

I'm a father of a 27 yr old dauter and 16 yr old son. I have two grandboys 7 and 4 with a granddaughter due in July. I work hard, pay my taxes and obey the law. The last thing I ever want to see is this country embroiled in another revolution. As an NRA member and a very conservative registered Independent who generally votes Republican. I get it that we need to get out there and vote. You have no reason to gripe if you don't. Problem is, our choices have become so limited. We are inundated by proffessional self serving polititians bent on the power of office. Honestly, the majority of politicians out there should be brought to trial on treason charges...Oh that's right, they are immune. We're selling our country to foriegn investors and this whole oil and Iraq thing is a joke, except to those who have lost loved ones. When do we take it back? without the second ammendment the others are worthless. You and I know where this is going. I read a quote from Edward Abbey from 1979. "Let us hope our weapons are never needed --but do not forget what the common people knew when they demanded the Bill of Rights: An armed citizenry is the first defense, the best defense, and the final defense against tyranny. If guns are outlawed, only the government will have guns. Only the police, the secret police, the military, the hired servants of our rulers. Only the government -- and a few outlaws. I intend to be among the outlaws." I'm not afraid to die for the USA or the constitution. Have we become a country of passive television addicted followers? Please explain why these feelings are wrong. And what effective methods you recomend to reinstate our country. We are a mere 300 million But we lead in every technological advance the world knows. Am I to lay down my arms and accept the liberal view of a one world economic utopia? My heart tells me we better get our act together or it's game over! :mad:

Word up! This guy is right, right, RIGHT, and if you smirk, or roll your eyes at this sentiment then you are very naive, an gullible!

[lowprone]

We are victims of our own reasonableness, our education process has crippled us and left us unable to tend to things that would have been dealt with in an entirely different way even 100 years ago. The modern age of enlightenment has sought and largely succeeded in removing the primitive tribal tendencies to protect the tribe against any and all threats to the tribe.
Americans are so thouroughly indoctrinated to be politically correct, sensitive, and above all reasonable. Because of these deepseated insidious feelings we are fully
involved in our own cultural suicide. The things we tolerate, no matter how totally
repulsive to our psyche they are, things our an ancestors would have settled with a rope or a trip from town tied to a mule, or a unexplained fire.
Our education has paralized us to the point that students in school will hide under
desks while killers murder them one by one.
When did it become unreasonable to defend ourselves? More importantly how do
we rebell against compromise? We long for the era when our enemies were obvious, and good men had but to answer the call, and do their duty.
Today the media has forsaken their allegiance to this country, they no longer re-search the people who seek political office without bias. They no longer report the
victory of a well dug by troops exhausted from combat, but not too tired to help the victems of war. They report the worst, they seem to take a particular delight in keeping Americans in doubt and afraid. They are I believe our worst enemies, those who teach surrender, and those who report that all is lost.

[UpNorthWolf]

Americans are so thouroughly indoctrinated to be politically correct, sensitive, and above all reasonable. Because of these deepseated insidious feelings we are fully involved in our own cultural suicide.

Our education has paralized us to the point that students in school will hide under desks while killers murder them one by one.

They are I believe our worst enemies, those who teach surrender, and those who report that all is lost.

Sorry, but I have to differ with you on these points. The kids that are cowering didn't get it from the school, they got it at home. MOST (not all) kids today are pretty apathetic about everything unless it really impacts their own selfish pursuits. Deny them something they want and all hell breaks loose (because their parents don't refuse them much). The schools have to overcome this as well. It isn't PC, guns are bad, or anything that is that focused, it really comes down to me, me, me ad nauseum. Parents created this problem.

[lowprone]

What??????????

[UpNorthWolf]

Again, read it. I assume you take the time to parent. I applaud you. Most parents don't. Spend some time with teens today, a wide range of them. It will terrify you.

Rick

[Safetyhit]

I live in "Enid" Oklahoma. Remember Jeff Foxworthy's take on Enid,OK.? It's not far from the truth. As for the law enforcement community, I have nothing but respect for anybody that would take on that job.


I have no idea about Enid, Oaklahoma, nor much about Jeff Foxworthy (being an American of Italian decent here in N.J.).


Regardless, from what you wrote there are at least two extremely viable reasons why these people should be behind bars. Either you exaggerated or the police are incompetent, period. And if you fear that putting a spotlight on a possible meth ring might get you in trouble with the police, then you have either a great imagination or a great news story.

[HAMMERDROP]

I would have shot the dog for being on my property !
I live in Missouri we have a form of 'castle law here' ...my point is own big dogs and a Rott I used to have tried to kill me. Now I never go out on my property unless I have a pistol ... not only for my protection but for anyone elses who may have the misfortune of having my dogs attack them. My dogs (2) are not vicious but they are territorial but if they bit someone unprovoked I would put a leash on them ------yes, they are never on a leash I have an 'Invisible Fence' but they have been trained to listen and they do its not real hard but I guess for most parents or people who cant get their child who may or may not speak the language, to listen how are they going to commnicate with a differnent species ------ and rack the slide for them if thats what they wanted. Unless they were trying to harm me or my property.
Thats just wrong what your neighbor did but it goes to show the type of Americans we have in this country these days and it focuses on your original point about the collapse of our societal structure ... Socrates is rolling in his grave. Good Luck with the dog - they are better than alot and I mean alot of people.
Sorry to rant

Michael

[Alpha Sierra]

I pulled the rot off of her and threw the dog across the yard the pit jumped as the owner came running across the street screaming at me for throwing his dog! Did I mention my little beagle was on a leash? At this point he commanded both dogs to kill...kill me and my dog!

At this point I'm pretty sure the conditions to use deadly force in self defense were met. Relying on legal advice from cops regarding this situation (as you later describe) is not optimal.

If, at this point, I had seen one or two dogs rushing me I would have drawn and fired at the dogs. The owner would have been next had he persisted in hostile action.

Know when you can and cannot apply it. Then apply as necessary.

[Bulldog1967]

I am a proud Rott, owner, but in that situation, that rott, the pit, and maybe even the owner would have received a hot lead injection.

:mad:

[PALADIN-hgwt]

xxxxx

[hillmillenia]

I appreciate the personal situations you have all shared regarding this incident. Some of you have questioned the validity of this posting and some have shared your own response in a similar situation. The incident did in fact happen the way I described. My pistol was in the house at the time as I was napping on the couch when my dog's yelps sent me out the front door. Later as I relived the situation, I realized I lifted an 80 lb. dog with one arm by the nape of his neck and never noticed the weight. I was concerned about the pitbull behind me, I had to lose the dog I had in order to grab my own dog and get her to safety. I thought I could throw the rot and scoop up my dog, when I turned to reach down the rot was already back on her. My arm took the initial bite but I moved away fast enough the rot's teeth didn't grab hold, he got ahold of my Beagle again around the throat. The owner was already there and had ordered his dogs to attack me and my dog. He used the words "kill" by this time I'm trying to pry the dogs jaws open...**** they can bite down! and he trying to pull his dog away. So I'm moving with him to minimize the tearing on my dogs throat. During the malee, my wife is having a stand off with the Pit and dialing 911 and My 8 month pregnant daughter is just arriving with my grandson. At this point My concern was spread over multiple people. Yes had I had my pistol,the one I carry 90% of the time GodDamnit! I would have killed both the dogs and very likely the owner. The 911 call took 40-45 minutes and the officer stood there and told me had I shot the animals, I could possibly been charged with felony animal cruelty. I've been trying to find laws that cover this area on line. So far I find I can use deadly force against an attacking dog to protect myself or another person. It's a frustrating situation. The thing with the dogs is they roam freely quite often. It seems one of 'em has mastered the gate lock where they're kept. We had the pit in the yard the other night and again brought the cop out. This officer was ready to shoot until the owners finally came out. He wrote them a ticket...So I'll play the game until they take them away.:mad:

[Safetyhit]

Some of you have questioned the validity of this posting and some have shared your own response in a similar situation. The incident did in fact happen the way I described.



Yes, I have questioned your story, but let me be clear on my motive. You can see that I referenced the children you say are living there several times. What struck me about this story was just that. If there are children there seeing all of what you described, then something should have been done to get them into a much better environment. Not so much because of the dogs, but because of the "drug raids" and the violent tendencies of the owner.