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Do we have anyone here participating in the American past-time of making your own goofy juice? Have any recipes or tips to share? I just started my first batch of hard cider this week.
Whiskey_Bravo
01-10-14, 23:49
I have really been thinking about it.
But damn it if I don't need another hobby, especially with more equipment to buy. If I get into it I can see me wanting to find the equivalent of the "chart" and get the best brewing equipment possible.
Not a lot is required to start. I've been picking up what I need as I go. Started with a bottle of apple juice and a packet of yeast cost < $8.
So far I have bought a hydrometer and had a tube made by a glassblower. I'll need to set-up a syphon eventually, but that is cheap. Less than $30 total investment for my first batch.
ClearedHot
01-11-14, 00:31
I make my own hard cider. I buy good quality unfiltered apple juice, such as Murray's. The glass jugs they come in makes it all the more convenient as well.
Whiskey_Bravo
01-11-14, 00:34
Not a lot is required to start. I've been picking up what I need as I go. Started with a bottle of apple juice and a packet of yeast cost < $8.
So far I have bought a hydrometer and had a tube made by a glassblower. I'll need to set-up a syphon eventually, but that is cheap. Less than $30 total investment for my first batch.
I was thinking more along the lines of brewing beer. As much as I have tried I can't bring myself to like hard cider.
I hope to move on to beer, but I am gluten intolerant. Beer is a bit more complicated than cider and wine. I will be trying mead as well.
I do mead here. Well, did do mead. I use the fall/winter as my brew months because of the cooler temps in my cellar, aka dark cold place under the kitchen cabinets. But our location now we don't get winter. Thus no cool brew cellar. This is where your yeast selection will matter.
My favorite mead to date is a Cyser (honey and apple juice). I've tried Melomels (honey and fruits), Metheglin (good for the holidays) & standard mead but I'm preferring the Cyser and will likely pursue my variants of that.
As far as equipment, I do my batches in 1gal carboys so brew, rack and storage are physically easy. You need a hydrometer. A good siphon helps tremendously. Get some rubber stoppers, both w/ and w/o holes for your airlocks (I use the twin bubble type). I keep all our wine bottles and repurpose those. I order new corks and bought a mini floor corker which makes bottling a cake walk. Everything fits inside a large footlocker for storage/moving (except for the corker).
The rest of your supplies are consumables and ingredients.
montanadave
01-11-14, 09:21
Seeing as how you already are open to the "internet forum" experience, you might want to check out the American Homebrewer's website, which also has a forum/discussion area: http://www.homebrewersassociation.org/magazine/about-the-magazine
I have been homebrewing beer, mead, wine, cider and all sorts of crossovers for going on my 14th year now. It is an amazing an rewarding hobby.
What recipes are you looking for, and what questions do you have?
Do you want to start out the easy way and do some extract brews, maybe some partial mashes/extract or just take the lounge into all grain brewing?
Feel free to PM me or just use this thread if you want info tips or recipes recommendations.
I've brewed thousands of gallons and hundreds of batches and kept detailed notes on every one to date.
The AHA forum is great as well as homebrew talk and beer advocate.
What equipment setup do you have currently and what are your favorite beer styles?
To posters regarding hard cider. There are MAYBE 5 total commercially available hard ciders that are worth drinking. The rest are crap, most notably "mikes hard" alcohol flavored beverages are shit.
Ciders made at home are quite different and quite amazing. You can dictate the flavors based on yeast strain apples used or juice used.
I personally buy a few gross of various types of apples and press/express the juice myself ( With a fruit and grape press I use for wine, ciders, and different melomels, etc). White labs wlp-002 English ale yeast is my preferred yeast strain for many reasons, but there are many other strains that produce wonderful cider.
Please do not judge ciders by typical commercial offerings, they are quite bland, thin and nothing like the real deal in my opinion.
I just pressed 25 gallons of juice from about 8 different apple types, the juice was split into 5 different 5 gallon batches and being fermented with 4 different yeast strains; 1 cider being fermented with 2 of the strains mixed together.
I propagate my own yeast and have a yeast bank/fridge dedicated to yeast and other cultures (Cheese making and some other things) as well.
My best advice is to buy john Palmers how to brew, Charlie papasains home brewing companion. Read both twice take notes, flag important chapters and then plan ahead of time for each brew. Take DETAILED notes and ask questions of brewers with more experience than you when you are unsure of things.
Oh and don't fiddle with your brew. Once you have attached the air lock leave it be for the specified yeast strains timeframe and take accurate hydrometer readings a few days apart once you believe it is done to determine if the brew is finished fermenting.
Buy beersmith brewing software or download brewcipher from vikeman on beer advocate to really up your game and help control every factor of the brew experience once you have the basics.
Sanitization and quality/fresh ingredients are both extremely important. Also pitching enough yeast for the beer (or whatever) style. MAKE YEAST STARTERS For EVERY SINGLE BREW YOU DO!
Don't hesitate to ask me questions or reach out for recipes and what not. I lo e to help new brewers out as others helped me in my brewing journey.
I'm kegging 15 gallons of ane Imperial Indian chocolate rye red ale today as well starting a diacetyl rest on a kolsch I laggered for the last 6 months today. And I'm brewing a 15 gallon batch of dark Belgian strong ale tomorrow.
Slainte!
Sanitization and quality/fresh ingredients are both extremely important. Also pitching enough yeast for the beer (or whatever) style. MAKE YEAST STARTERS For EVERY SINGLE BREW YOU DO!
Amen to that! I used to brew.
Books in addition to above..
Yeast Culturing for the Homebrewer - Rog Leistad --- it's only 25 pages or so... if out of print I can probably scan you a copy.
Principals of Brewing Science - George Fix - it's true to it's name --- lot's of pictures of molecules
Brewing the Worlds Great Beers - Dave Miller
Joy of Homebrewing - Papazian - whatever he has as latest book
Winners Circle from AHA -- mine says 10 years of award winning recipes and it's from '89.
Making Cordials and Liqueurs at Home - John P. Farrell --- those things are easy to make but need to age in. They really turn out nice though. Most of it's vodka based so wait for sale and make several then just stash them away.
I -had- a receipe for mead... I think it was honey and cherry or all cherry I can't recall. I won second place locally with it. I had a couple of friends that just loved it. they wanted to pay me to just keep making it. Oddly I never liked it. If I run across that recipe I'll pass it along. I would caution you against any Ginger/Honey Mead efforts. I made that at the same time and reluctantly had to drink it all myself.... think Cepacol Mouthwash.... man it was rough.
This is good stuff ---- http://www.wyeastlab.com/default.cfm
the first beer I ever made, my father and I got a couple of Guinness I believe and cultured up the yeast from the bottom of a bottle or two. Either Guinness or some British ale that had active yeast visible in the bottle. It's actually a lot of fun but when I stopped I was ready to get rid of all my beginner setup and buy a nice stainless steel setup. I had a chiller and an empty fridge for yeast storage and was just transitioning from just winging it to really putting some scientific effort into it. It's a lot of work and you really need to devise a method to streamline all workflow.... which practically means having a second kitchen(brewery).
I sold all of it off and never bought the new stuff. I expect you can get a really nice setup now days. I have quite drinking now but have thought of making bread. that whole thing of the yeast giving so much character to it is really amazing. I used to think it was the hops and grains, which do indeed play a big role, but in my opinion the yeast is king. That's where the real character is. I usually used ,ore yeast than most all of the beginning recipes call for. Sometimes twice as much.
OT
I propagate my own yeast and have a yeast bank/fridge dedicated to yeast and other cultures (Cheese making and some other things) as well.
Do you have any links to cheese making that is not too over the top or too overly expensive in gear. I have made paneer but that's just heating milk and pouring in lemon/lime juice. I will often mix it with spices and pepper to give it some character. I've wanted to try something a bit more advanced but not sure which way to go. Same with bread... I've made machine bread from dry yeast and it actually turned out really nice but wanted to try someone by hand. My grandmother used to always have a culture for sour dough bread. Man I can still see and almost taste fried sour dough bread and crab cakes in the iron frying pan.
Thanks for all the info. I picked up Palmers book from the local library. I will be focusing on wine and cider this year while I gather equipment an experience.
I love beer, but had to give it up. All the store bought GF beef tastes like water. When I feel I have the hang of easier stuff, I'll try my hand at these.
I agree with you on cider. You can't judge it by Chuck or Hornsby. There are two ciders that I enjoy. Stinger (local to Utah) and Montana Cider Works. On a good year, Lee at Montana Cider Works may have ice cider (like ice wine), which is the best fermented beverage I've ever had.
Cider is easier to make but harder to finish. You have some interesting choices to make if you don't like your cider dry or still. What is your plan?
Apple juice concentrate is your friend. Use it over any other sugars if you want to increase the alcohol content, use it to prime if bottle conditioning, or use it to back sweeten. Apple juice made from eating apples is lacking in acid and tannins, once the sugar is fermented out the flavor can be a bit flat. Concentrate adds more flavor with the sugar you need for the processes above.
Use apple juice not cider. Commercially sold cider doesn't taste any better to me and will never clear up, so why pay a premium?
Skip the champagne yeast. It takes way too long to clear vs ale yeast, I like S-04 myself.
First thing for beer, let your equipment dictate batch size. If you are doing the boil inside on a stovetop seriously consider doing batches smaller than 5 gal. A 3-4 gal batch of full boil beer beats a 5 gal partial boil beer.
All grain is not that much harder now. A cooler for a mash tun and water calculators available now make it easy to get into. Brew in a bag makes it even easier without any extra equipment.
Cider is easier to make but harder to finish. You have some interesting choices to make if you don't like your cider dry or still. What is your plan?
Apple juice concentrate is your friend. Use it over any other sugars if you want to increase the alcohol content, use it to prime if bottle conditioning, or use it to back sweeten. Apple juice made from eating apples is lacking in acid and tannins, once the sugar is fermented out the flavor can be a bit flat. Concentrate adds more flavor with the sugar you need for the processes above.
Use apple juice not cider. Commercially sold cider doesn't taste any better to me and will never clear up, so why pay a premium?
Skip the champagne yeast. It takes way too long to clear vs ale yeast, I like S-04 myself.
First thing for beer, let your equipment dictate batch size. If you are doing the boil inside on a stovetop seriously consider doing batches smaller than 5 gal. A 3-4 gal batch of full boil beer beats a 5 gal partial boil beer.
All grain is not that much harder now. A cooler for a mash tun and water calculators available now make it easy to get into. Brew in a bag makes it even easier without any extra equipment.
I'd like to add to this if you don't mind. I don't know if you can use the same process, but in case it can be useful. I was able to clear store bought apple cider by stabilizing it (Ksorbate & Campden). I made Apple Pie with an Everclear recipe for the holidays and I treated it the same way I treat my mead after fermentation. Kept the drink in carboys with cinnamon & clove to age a few weeks. all out began within a day and three weeks later it was a different beast. In order to preserve the clarity I racked with an auto siphon. Next batch I'll stick with juice concentrate to negate this unnecessary work all together. I concur with your observation that store bought cider offers nothing over the store ought juice. They tasted the same.
Heat pasturized cider will have the pectins set and I don't think that can't be undone. Some may be UV pasturized and that should clear. Of course cider doesn't need to be clear to taste good.
The cider is racked and I started some cranberry wine in the primary. The cider started as Kroeger brand apple juice. I am going for dry and sparkling with the cider. I will prime it with juice concentrate. I am going to go for semi-dry on the wine and cold crash it when I think it is dry enough. Then I'll throw in the sorbate and sulfites.
OT
Do you have any links to cheese making that is not too over the top or too overly expensive in gear. I have made paneer but that's just heating milk and pouring in lemon/lime juice. I will often mix it with spices and pepper to give it some character. I've wanted to try something a bit more advanced but not sure which way to go. Same with bread... I've made machine bread from dry yeast and it actually turned out really nice but wanted to try someone by hand. My grandmother used to always have a culture for sour dough bread. Man I can still see and almost taste fried sour dough bread and crab cakes in the iron frying pan.
tb-av,
This is the web-site I got started at. I also purchased a few cheesemaking books, but I'll have to check back in with titles/authors once I am at home and can find them.
http://www.cheesemaking.com/
You can buy equipment directly from here or get the product info and search the internet for better deals elsewhere.
The hardest part about cheese making is finding or producing the right milk. You can get away with a milk that has been VERY LIGHTLY pasteurized, but not heavily pasteurized.
Really you want fresh animals milk that has not been processed at all, that makes the best cheese. But is hard to find unless you have livestock.
I like cheese made from goats milk the most, it is so flavorful and very nutritious.
Basic cheese making kits can be purchased for under $100, but you may need to buy additional gear depending on what cheese you are trying to make.
Homebrewing stores typically carry cheese making kits and supplies in CO, but I amnot sure about VA....
I just sampled some stout aged cheddar I made in 2012 that is almost finished and it is quite good. Marbled black/yellow from teh beer/cheddar, it is very aethetically pleasing, it needs a few more months to dry out a bit more, but is almost ready.
Good luck and happy cheese making- hope you make some great cheese!
Slainte!
Cider is easier to make but harder to finish. You have some interesting choices to make if you don't like your cider dry or still. What is your plan?
Apple juice concentrate is your friend. Use it over any other sugars if you want to increase the alcohol content, use it to prime if bottle conditioning, or use it to back sweeten. Apple juice made from eating apples is lacking in acid and tannins, once the sugar is fermented out the flavor can be a bit flat. Concentrate adds more flavor with the sugar you need for the processes above.Use apple juice not cider. Commercially sold cider doesn't taste any better to me and will never clear up, so why pay a premium?
Skip the champagne yeast. It takes way too long to clear vs ale yeast, I like S-04 myself.
First thing for beer, let your equipment dictate batch size. If you are doing the boil inside on a stovetop seriously consider doing batches smaller than 5 gal. A 3-4 gal batch of full boil beer beats a 5 gal partial boil beer.
All grain is not that much harder now. A cooler for a mash tun and water calculators available now make it easy to get into. Brew in a bag makes it even easier without any extra equipment.
Apple juice purchased from the store can make great cider- yes; but not nearly as good as freshly harvested apples straight from the orchard to the press and into the fermentor. As long as you mix different apple types (At least 3 varieties from my testing/experience) and add a small amount of tannic acid to the fermentor or yeast starter just before pitching.
As long as the juice you are buying doens't have vitamin C, ascorbic acid or any other added preservatives (Hard to find commercially sold juices without these preservatives, but it can be done) as these make the yeasts job hard and create off flavors in the finished product EVERY time.
I make ciders from both apple juice (Tree-top organic first pressed 3 apple blend no preservative added juice, or fresh juice pressed at the orchard itself) and from going to orchards buying a dozen or so gross of different apple types and pressing/expressing the juice myself. The latter method is MUCH, MUCH, MUCH, MUCH BETTER.
I've done blind taste testings, won several competitions on the local and national level with both, but I can tell you with 100% confidence that cider made from freshly harvested/first pressed apples is in a class of its own compared to store bought juices; as long as you do your part.
For one, I can mix different apple varieties and couple them to a specific yeast strain to compliment the apple juice flavor to get a very specific/desired flavor profile in the finished product. Not so much with a premade/mixed commercial juice.
It mimics the difference between all grain brewing and extract brewing, I control more factors, thus controlling the flavor of the finished product to a greater extent.
Regarding clearing of the fermented juice. Either use a pectic enzyme or superkleer KC. Also using WLP-002 English ale yeast if you have problems with this, or just wait longer for the cider to clear. WLP-002 is a highly flucclant strain of yeast and clears incredibly well.
You can also cold crash or use finings if necessary, but I've never had to use finings in a cider before, they all clear very well. I typically cold crash before kegging/bottling though, as this is just part of my system/habits with just about every brew/cider/perry/mead/wine; although not all of them...
Sometimes you have to use a pectic enzyme to aid in clearing, some juice is just too cloudy and filled with haze causing stuff.
All-grain is the way to go. You can brew good beers with extract, but you just can't control everything enough to really do it right in my opinion. Don't get me wrong, you can still make good beer and sometimes even great beer with extracts, but it is like heating up soup froma can instead of making it from scratch, the latter is better 99% of the time.
The hardest part about cheese making is finding or producing the right milk. You can get away with a milk that has been VERY LIGHTLY pasteurized, but not heavily pasteurized.
Really you want fresh animals milk that has not been processed at all, that makes the best cheese. But is hard to find unless you have livestock.
I like cheese made from goats milk the most, it is so flavorful and very nutritious.
Ok, I did not know that. That could be a problem. I'll have to see what sort of dairy farms are still around here. Not many. I agree, goat cheese is good. Thanks for the info. Now I know why when I see these boutique cheese offerings they always run a goat farm too.
I think I racked it too soon. It seems to be fermenting very slowly now (it was slow when I racked it), but the SG is sitting around 1.01 and it has about the sweetness of a woodchuck but very acidic. Live and learn, I'll let it sit in the secondary and check the SG from time to time. Knowing what I know now, I'll let the new batches of wine and cider go in the primary for longer.
LowSpeed_HighDrag
01-14-14, 01:55
Oranges, bread, sugar, jelly packet, water. Place in shampoo bottle with plastic wrap over the nozzle so it seals. Leave it in the corner of your cell for 2 weeks. Drink and be merry.
I'm incredibly spoiled here and have one friend that owns a brewery. Another friend actually won in several categories at the GABF, two years in a row...
Having access to such incredible beer means that I rarely bother to contemplate making my own. I would rather just give my buddies money, cigars, or a combination of both, and keep drinking the amazing beers that they're producing. :D
Whiskey_Bravo
01-14-14, 09:17
Oranges, bread, sugar, jelly packet, water. Place in shampoo bottle with plastic wrap over the nozzle so it seals. Leave it in the corner of your cell for 2 weeks. Drink and be merry.
Seems legit.
Oranges, bread, sugar, jelly packet, water. Place in shampoo bottle with plastic wrap over the nozzle so it seals. Leave it in the corner of your cell for 2 weeks. Drink and be merry.
You are missing one key ingredient, a potato.Prison home brew. (http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/news/57259608-78/botulism-potato-utah-according.html.csp)
LowSpeed_HighDrag
01-15-14, 01:42
You are missing one key ingredient, a potato.Prison home brew. (http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/news/57259608-78/botulism-potato-utah-according.html.csp)
I'm not sure Ive ever seen potatoes used an ingredient. Its very often sugar, old oranges, bread, and water. Its just an awful smelling concoction, and a lousy way to pick up a felony (behind bars).
I have tried to make my own, but I couldnt bring myself to try it.
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