Another Movie Theater Shooting - Florida [Archive]

SteyrAUG

01-13-14, 19:56

Geez, maybe he should have complained to the usher first.

Grown ups shouldn't have to go get some high school kid making minimum wage to ask another grown up to turn off his damn phone in the theater. The solution of course is for EVERYONE to know how to act in a movie theater and not piss off everyone else. Obviously that will never happen.

We won't know the entire story for awhile. Maybe he went over and asked nicely and was attacked by a belligerent jackass and the old guy was forced to defend himself. Maybe he went over like a kingshit former cop and threatened the guy. Could have been either way or somewhere in between.

I understand how this crap happens. If I weren't such a calm, well reasoned and reserved individual I'd have a triple digit body count by now. Almost every day I encounter or see people who just don't know how to act.

The result is I "accept it" and it takes a toll on my life expectancy and health in the form of stress because I'm not allowed to go straighten them out and even if I was there aren't enough hours in the day to get the job done.

I can understand how a 71 year old might have reached his line in the sand and decided he isn't gonna take it anymore regardless of the consequences. But again, we don't know exactly how it went down so that's pure speculation.

But again, if the guy had just shut off his damn phone before the movie started we wouldn't be reading about this incident.

montanadave

01-13-14, 20:09

My earlier remark was tongue in cheek and, Steyr, I completely agree with your remarks above.

It's a shame that so many folks lack even the most basic elements of common courtesy. And it's even more tragic that so many people are so invested in saving face or maintaining their street cred or whatever else they call this bullshit that they feel it necessary to assault and kill one another over a disagreement about a ****ing cell phone in a public theater.

Makes every minute I can spend out of town with just my dogs for company (and occasionally my wife) that much more attractive.

Tzed250

01-13-14, 20:18

Play stupid games...

Honu

01-13-14, 20:31

over texting and throwing pop corn ?

ST911

01-13-14, 20:33

I reserve judgment until further information is made available. It is my hope that someday, we all do the same.

Gunfighter.45

01-13-14, 20:35

Steyr couldn't agree more...the lack of common courtesy now a days is astounding.

Brimstone

01-13-14, 20:37

I have gotten into a few heated "discussions" in movie theaters over talking, phones and generally being obnoxious. People that do that tend to be much bigger assholes with attitudes. I am sure there is more to the story.

HES

01-13-14, 21:48

This happened in my AO and I had friends in an adjacent theater. From what my friend told me from talking to the folks in the theater Oulson was be an obnoxious ass to the shooter. It's a case of the stereotypical you punk coming up against the cranky old man. Neither would back down and the younger kid was gonna show that old coot who was boss.. Until...

We has a similar situation in the county a few years ago. The older guy was arrested but got off using SYG because he had had multiple heart attacks in the past and couldn't afford another physical confrontation. Don't know if that is the case here or not.

On thought that runs through my mind is why didn't the old man just try to move. Yeah it would have meant "losing face" but if I'm carrying I'll do all that I can to avoid a fight. The shooter shouldn't have to move, but if he had, if he had take the wiser course of action (to my eyes) then things would have ended differently.

Then again if the 43 year old hadn't been an arrogant ass to begin with...

SeriousStudent

01-13-14, 22:05

I go to the movie theater about once every five years. They don't let me drink Scotch while I watch the show, they get very upset if I fire up a Havana, and I can damn near buy a new Glock mag for the price of a movie ticket. Don't get me started on bathroom lines.

Drooling morons with cell phones are just the cherry on the doo-doo cupcake.

Airhasz

01-13-14, 22:08

Looks like .380 gets the job done.

Eurodriver

01-13-14, 22:23

I told a buddy about the responses in this thread. He knows quite a bit about this incident. He wanted me to relay:

"This was most definitely a case of 'Douchebag meets douchebag with gun'."

Voodoo_Man

01-13-14, 22:42

At 71 worst thing they are gana do is put him in jail for a few years until he dies. That dude should have just turned his cellphone off.

Koshinn

01-13-14, 22:48

They don't let me drink Scotch while I watch the show

You're going to the wrong theaters!

The Warren theater in Moore, OK (narrowly missed by the tornado, its parking lot became a triage station) has a 21+ section for alcohol and food in the theater.

The Galaxy something theater in Las Vegas on Sunset also has alcohol and amazingly nice seats. They recline and have foot rests and tables and are really comfortable. Plus alcohol and a hot dog bar type thing.

SeriousStudent

01-13-14, 22:59

If I lived in Oklahoma in tornado season, I'd probably need a drink in a movie theater as well. You folks have it rough up there, and Moore especially so.

I think the last movie I saw in a theater was one of the Lord of the Rings ones. I don't recall exactly which one, but I remember it had orcs and swords and stuff like that.

Eurodriver

01-13-14, 23:10

I think the last movie I saw in a theater was one of the Lord of the Rings ones. I don't recall exactly which one, but I remember it had orcs and swords and stuff like that.

...and you say you don't drink in the theater? ;)

SeriousStudent

01-13-14, 23:21

...and you say you don't drink in the theater? ;)

I thought they were orcs. They could have been extremely ugly women, and I could have been in the wrong showing.

But I'm pretty sure it was orcs, judging from the dialect.

montanadave

01-13-14, 23:24

I think the last movie I saw in a theater was one of the Lord of the Rings ones. I don't recall exactly which one, but I remember it had orcs and swords and stuff like that.

One of the last flicks I saw in a theater was Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon, with English subtitles. Some guy had his little girl with him and about 30 seconds into the film she asks, "Daddy, what are they saying?". And she kept asking for the next two hours.

Now THAT would have been justifiable homicide.

AKDoug

01-13-14, 23:26

WTF is wrong with texting in a theater if you have the sound off? No more worse than 90% of the crap that goes on in a theater.

Koshinn

01-13-14, 23:28

WTF is wrong with texting in a theater if you have the sound off? No more worse than 90% of the crap that goes on in a theater.

It's super bright and distracting. In most theaters, everyone behind the person texting can see it clearly.

SeriousStudent

01-13-14, 23:31

It's super bright and distracting. In most theaters, everyone behind the person texting can see it clearly.

This. In a dark movie theater, watching a cell phone screen pop like a flash bulb is not a welcome sight.

If someone has some sort of urgent matter in their life that requires them to respond immediately, maybe they should not be in a theater? But there by Grandma's bedside in the hospital?

Whiskey_Bravo

01-13-14, 23:35

This. In a dark movie theater, watching a cell phone screen pop like a flash bulb is not a welcome sight.

If someone has some sort of urgent matter in their life that requires them to respond immediately, maybe they should not be in a theater? But there by Grandma's bedside in the hospital?

This is why I enjoy going to Alamo Draft House if I have to go watch a movie. Tons of beer on draft, a full bar(with scotch), food, and a strict no texting or talking policy that they actually enforce.

Koshinn

01-13-14, 23:37

This. In a dark movie theater, watching a cell phone screen pop like a flash bulb is not a welcome sight.

If someone has some sort of urgent matter in their life that requires them to respond immediately, maybe they should not be in a theater? But there by Grandma's bedside in the hospital?

How would you know? Cell phones didn't exist last time you were in a movie theater! :p

SeriousStudent

01-13-14, 23:40

How would you know? Cell phones didn't exist last time you were in a movie theater! :p

That is not true. I tripped over one of those big bag phones when I went back to get another Moon Pie and an RC Cola.

_Stormin_

01-13-14, 23:40

Shocked that not one media outlet has made the announcement that it was an AR-15 .380 Handgun...

This seems like it could be a case of the younger guy wanting to make a physical confrontation out of the issue, and the older one having none of it. Honestly, if the issue was one of the younger guy looking for a fight, I don't see any issue with self defense. We will have to see how it shakes out.

Hmac

01-13-14, 23:41

Drooling morons with cell phones are just the cherry on the doo-doo cupcake.

In this case, the main story appears to be a drooling moron ex-cop with a gun. The drooling moron with the cell phone is the victim.

SeriousStudent

01-13-14, 23:44

In this case, the main story appears to be a drooling moron ex-cop with a gun. The drooling moron with the cell phone is the victim.

Yep, just another reason to experience the delightful surround sound cinema here at Rancho Serious. Now with fifty percent less morons, and 95 percent less drool.

Hmac

01-13-14, 23:49

Yep, just another reason to experience the delightful surround sound cinema here at Rancho Serious. Now with fifty percent less morons, and 95 percent less drool.

Just trying to re-establish perspective. A guy lost his life over a cell phone in a theater. Discourtesy doesn't fit with my concept of self-defense.

SeriousStudent

01-13-14, 23:53

It does not fit into mine, either. I don't recall ever applauding for the guy that shot him. From the five news stories I read on this tonight, he's probably going to do time for second-degree murder, and rightfully so.

I just know from patching up the hydraulic leaks at scenes like this one, that stupidity can be both an irresistible force and an immoveable object. I'm just jaded, I guess.

SteyrAUG

01-14-14, 00:03

Just trying to re-establish perspective. A guy lost his life over a cell phone in a theater. Discourtesy doesn't fit with my concept of self-defense.

No...you are correct. But discourtesy can warrant a "Hey knock that shit off" and IF the discourteous person decides to escalate that into a physical confrontation THAT can become a self defense situation where somebody gets killed. Not saying that is how it went down, but that's how these things happen a lot.

So much easier for all involved to just shut off your damn phone and watch the movie.

Honestly with the price of tickets, popcorn and soda who the hell sends texts during a movie anyway?

Hmac

01-14-14, 00:04

Koshinn

01-14-14, 00:06

Just trying to re-establish perspective. A guy lost his life over a cell phone in a theater. Discourtesy doesn't fit with my concept of self-defense.

Discourtesy can escalate, which is what seems to have happened here.

SeriousStudent

01-14-14, 00:09

Agreed. And there are plenty of rude assholes with guns, too. Two jackasses started braying, and one ended up dead.

It probably sounds really cold-blooded of me, but I honestly feel bad for the people that just wanted to go see "Lone Survivor" at the theater. They expected the gunfire sounds to come from a speaker, not the row in front of them.

SeriousStudent

01-14-14, 00:23

This is why I enjoy going to Alamo Draft House if I have to go watch a movie. Tons of beer on draft, a full bar(with scotch), food, and a strict no texting or talking policy that they actually enforce.

I have heard of that place, I'll have to try it sometime.

Whiskey_Bravo

01-14-14, 00:54

I have heard of that place, I'll have to try it sometime.

Decent place. The wife and I have found we like it better than Studio Movie Grill. Nice rotating beer selection helps.

But, I still prefer to watch movies at home. That's why I just started my next project, converting an upstairs room into a dedicated theater room.

Whiskey_Bravo

01-14-14, 00:54

Airhasz

01-14-14, 02:35

People screwing around doing things other than watching the movie could be due to the large number of movie goers that are only there for their SO and couldn't give a **** about Hollywood. After all, we probably all do things with our women and never let up that they suck and you are bored as hell.

Hmac

01-14-14, 02:37

Discourtesy can escalate, which is what seems to have happened here.
Yup. And now anti-CCW folks all over the country have a heaven-sent platform.

Eurodriver

01-14-14, 06:26

Yup. And now anti-CCW folks all over the country have a heaven-sent platform.

Seems like they better start with repealing LEOSA before they touch any CCW legislation.

_Stormin_

01-14-14, 06:47

Yup. And now anti-CCW folks all over the country have a heaven-sent platform.

1 - This would be LEOSA and not a regular CCW issue.

2 - IF, and I do mean a big old IF, this is an issue of force escalation, then the concept of concealed carry may have worked EXACTLY as it would have been expected to. One of the reasons that firearms are such a useful tool for defense is that they level the playing field. Even the spryest of 71 year old men may not be as physically capable of defending themselves against all men in their early forties. I know some gentlemen in that age bracket that could, and some that could not. If this was in the latter category, and the younger man was looking for a fight, then I take no issues with DEFENSIVE action on the part of the older man once it came to violence. I have read three different sources on this one, and gotten three divergent pictures of what happened (even read the Huffington Post, guess how long they took to mention that the "Movie Theater Shooter" was a retired LEO). The man is innocent until proven guilty.

Hmac

01-14-14, 07:22

Alex V

01-14-14, 07:23

was this all really over a verbal confrontation of was the "victim" intending to harm the old guy? not sure if all the facts are in, but so far looks like the crotchety old man f'ed up.

Eurodriver

01-14-14, 07:39

If the guy hadn't qualified under LEOSA, he would have just applied for a Florida CCW, right? LEOSA (assuming the guy was even carrying under LEOSA) and CCW would get tarred with the same brush. Not a LEOSA issue, and I doubt LEOSA will even come up as a contributing issue. All we have is a citizen legally carrying a handgun and committing mayhem in public, just as CCW detractors have predicted.
.

NRA response: "This officer could have carried under LEOSA anyway. Removing the ability of law abiding citizens to defend themselves because of one lunatic is stupid."

Everyone except for the Jim Bradys of the world go "Ohhhhh...."

End.

was this all really over a verbal confrontation of was the "victim" intending to harm the old guy? not sure if all the facts are in, but so far looks like the crotchety old man f'ed up.

From what I've been told, the crotchety old man put his hands on the douchebag 40yo first, which is why there hasn't been any talk of "self defense" or "stand your ground".

Nocco is a younger version of Grady Judd. If there is one Sheriff (save for Judd) that would be all about giving some douchebag violent movie goer a dirt nap it would be him. The fact that he is facing murder charges says a lot.

NCPatrolAR

01-14-14, 07:42

Grown ups shouldn't have to go get some high school kid making minimum wage to ask another grown up to turn off his damn phone in the theater.

Actually it makes sense to go get someone that works for the establishment that you are in since they are the ones tasked with enforcing the rules of the venue; not you.

Apricotshot

01-14-14, 07:56

NRA response: "This officer could have carried under LEOSA anyway. Removing the ability of law abiding citizens to defend themselves because of one lunatic is stupid."

Everyone except for the Jim Bradys of the world go "Ohhhhh...."

End.

From what I've been told, the crotchety old man put his hands on the douchebag 40yo first, which is why there hasn't been any talk of "self defense" or "stand your ground".

Nocco is a younger version of Grady Judd. If there is one Sheriff (save for Judd) that would be all about giving some douchebag violent movie goer a dirt nap it would be him. The fact that he is facing murder charges says a lot.

Judd is way better than Nocco. Nocco is pretty anti-gun as seen in his many press confrences ("No one needs one of these (black rifle) for self defense."). He also needs to hire a PR person becasue he is horrid public speaker.

austinN4

01-14-14, 08:19

Not that I'm endorsing any actions or attempting to justify them, but perhaps the next time a 71 year old man tells you to knock off the cellphone bullshit in a movie theater maybe just turn your damn phone off.
^This.

I saw this on the news yesterday and wondered why it hadn't happened sooner and more often. Not that it is worth killing over, but a lot of seniors are really fed up with the lack of civility around them. Don't forget that a lot of us around that age served in the military, and maybe even combat! And the fact is that at 71, or with health problems, or both, they might just decide to say f**k it, what the hell!

Hmac

01-14-14, 08:31

Not that I'm endorsing any actions or attempting to justify them, but perhaps the next time a 71 year old man tells you to knock off the cellphone bullshit in a movie theater maybe just turn your damn phone off.

Everyone would still be alive and nobody would be facing charges if dipshits (especially ones in their 40s who are old enough to know better) would just turn off their damn phone before the movie starts. While it's not worth killing over, conversely it's not worth getting killed for.

Just another example where what used to be "common courtesy" would have prevented the entire event.

Perhaps next time you see a 41 year old texting in a movie theater, don't draw your gun and kill him. Just another example where what used to be "common sense" and "adult level of emotional control" would have prevented the entire event.

Seriously, killing someone because they're texting in a movie theater? I don't care about the provocation, the end result is just not justifiable no matter how rude the douche with the cell phone was.

Koshinn

01-14-14, 08:54

Perhaps next time you see a 41 year old texting in a movie theater, don't draw your gun and kill him. Just another example where what used to be "common sense" and "adult level of emotional control" would have prevented the entire event.

Seriously, killing someone because they're texting in a movie theater? I don't care about the provocation, the end result is just not justifiable no matter how rude the douche with the cell phone was.

He didn't kill the guy because of texting. You're over-simplifying things. It started because of texting.

Apricotshot

01-14-14, 08:58

It all comes down to someone having to be the mature adult and removing themselves from the situation. Decorum is no reason to be goaded into a gunfight.

Koshinn

01-14-14, 09:06

Cummings said the men started raising their voices and popcorn was thrown. Authorities said Reeves took out a gun, and Oulson’s wife put her hand over her husband, and that’s when Reeves fired his weapon, striking Nicole Oulson in the hand and her husband in the chest.

"I can’t believe people would bring a pistol, a gun, to a movie," Cummings said. "I can’t believe they would argue and fight and shoot one another over popcorn. Over a cellphone."

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/01/14/tampa-bay-movie-theater-shooting-victim-reportedly-tells-gunman-cant-believe/

It was a shooting over a heated argument. The argument started about a cellphone, but escalated from there.

Hmac

01-14-14, 09:22

He didn't kill the guy because of texting. You're over-simplifying things. It started because of texting.

And ended with an unarmed man being shot and killed. I'm not sure I get your point. Where in this scenario is the self-defense justification for lethal force?

Koshinn

01-14-14, 09:47

And ended with an unarmed man being shot and killed. I'm not sure I get your point. Where in this scenario is the self-defense justification for lethal force?

The point is, it doesn't matter what initiates the disagreement, what matters is how far it escalates before use of lethal force. Yes, perhaps it shouldn't have escalated at all. But since it did, you have to take that into account.

Hmac

01-14-14, 09:58

The point is, it doesn't matter what initiates the disagreement, what matters is how far it escalates before use of lethal force. Yes, perhaps it shouldn't have escalated at all. But since it did, you have to take that into account.

Nah, what matters is that lethal force was used and whether or not it was justified.

R0CKETMAN

01-14-14, 10:17

A reminder to bring a torch with your weapon to a theater. You just never know these days.

Whiskey_Bravo

01-14-14, 10:18

And ended with an unarmed man being shot and killed. I'm not sure I get your point. Where in this scenario is the self-defense justification for lethal force?

Should the situation ever have gotten that far? Of course not. When you carry you have to go out of your way to make sure you avoid any and all types of conflict, it just isn't worth it. The old man should have just moved or left the theater. It sucks and he shouldn't have to do that, but it's better than what ended up happening. Justified in the end or not, he will live with it for the rest of his life. And no matter what it will all come back to being annoyed at a cell phone using douche.

With that said, could a 71 year old have a different level of justification for using deadly force than you? If an argument becomes physical the 71 year old may fear for his life as his physical health and age may now allow him to defend himself the same as a 40 year old man in much better shape. Now if the 71 year old man escalated the argument past the verbal stage he had no right to pull a gun, and to me is homicide.

If the cell phone using guy turned it physical then that is the risk you take if you decide you want to start a physical fight with someone, you never know how they will want to end the fight. If the old man turned it physical he will probably be going to jail for the rest of his life as he probably should.

p22shooter30

01-14-14, 10:27

he was not even texting during the movie. it was during the previews or commercials that are before the movie. they last forever and who gives a shit, other than this old man with an itchy trigger finger. I have a feeling that nothing the younger guy could have done short of leaving would have satisfied the old man enough to leave him alone. and with a 3 year old daughter, im sure him and his wife dont get a chance to go on dates often so that wasn't going to happen. I have been around enough older men that used to be in an authority position to know once they get riled up, they don't care what they do since they do not even consider the consequences since they have had people kissing their asses most of their adult life. esp a police captain. but as mentioned above, this is a bigger gift to the media than the Christie scandals.

Renegade

01-14-14, 11:05

Perhaps next time you see a 41 year old texting in a movie theater, don't draw your gun and kill him.

Perhaps next time you are texting in a theatre and someone asks you to stop, you stop or take it outside? Unless you are OK with your daughter growing up without a dad and someone else banging your wife for the rest of her life. I just don't get the ego and selfishness here. I guess I do not care much either, two less douchbags walking free.

ETA:

Maybe this came out wrong, see follow-up posts #65 for what I am really getting at. and "you" was not meant at hmac, but third person plural.

NCPatrolAR

01-14-14, 11:08

Time to dial things back a bit

Hmac

01-14-14, 11:14

Perhaps next time you are texting in a theatre and someone asks you to stop, you stop or take it outside? Unless you are OK with your daughter growing up without a dad and someone else banging your wife for the rest of her life. I just don't get the ego and selfishness here. I guess I do not care much either, two less douchbags walking free.

Nice.

I view firearms carry as a means of protecting my life and, when appropriate, the lives of others. I don't see rude behavior as something that figures in. If we're going to devolve to shooting people just for pissing us off, then the Brady crowd has it right after all.

Renegade

01-14-14, 11:27

Nice.

I view firearms carry as a means of protecting my life and, when appropriate, the lives of others. I don't see rude behavior as something that figures in. If we're going to devolve to shooting people just for pissing us off, then the Brady crowd has it right after all.

The world is the way it is. If you want to survive it, one may want to look more than one move ahead as to what the consequences are of one's selfish and rude actions. Dead texter missed this memo.

As I read this story, I was stunned how the dead texter just kept pushing the old man. He just could not show some common courtesy and back off. Like many here, I carry. I am not getting into an argument over a text. "Sorry, my bad, I will take it outside next time." would have been my response to the old man when he requested I stop.

Yesterday I was in BBQ joint. Put my drink on booth table, went to get some napkins, sauce etc, Come back someone is sitting in my booth. "Excuse me, can I get my drink?". Picked it up and went to another table. How hard is that? I guess I could have argued with them, who knows where that would have went. Who cares, I just got another table. I have no need to be a tough guy and confront people over stupid stuff.

Like a cop, my #1 rule is to make it home to my family. Arguing with d-bags over stupid stuff violates that rule.

Hmac

01-14-14, 11:34

The world is the way it is. If you want to survive it, one may want to look more than one move ahead as to what the consequences are of one's selfish and rude actions. Dead texter missed this memo.

As I read this story, I was stunned how the dead texter just kept pushing the old man. He just could not show some common courtesy and back off. Like many here, I carry. I am not getting into an argument over a text. "Sorry, my bad, I will take it outside next time." would have been my response to the old man when he requested I stop.

Yesterday I was in BBQ joint. Put my drink on booth table, went to get some napkins, sauce etc, Come back someone is sitting in my booth. "Excuse me, can I get my drink?". Picked it up and went to another table. How hard is that? I guess I could have argued with them, who knows where that would have went. Who cares, I just got another table. I have no need to be a tough guy and confront people over stupid stuff.

Like a cop, my #1 rule is to make it home to my family. Arguing with d-bags over stupid stuff violates that rule.

Agreed. But I think we all have the right to be a d-bag without worrying about getting killed for it, whether in a BBQ joint, on the road, or in a movie theater. I also agree that it's wise to not take too much for granted.

.

brickboy240

01-14-14, 11:34

While I feel the older guy was completely in the wrong...you have to admit that some people (especially those under 30) can be totally rude about their phone usage.

I mean...some of you don't look all THAT important...can you fart with that phone later...maybe? It is distracting in a dark theater to have that bright ass screen flicker on and off over and over again. I am sure that older guy thought this phone jockey was going to text the entire movie. Hey...it is not out of the range of possibility these days.

Some people treat their phones like adult pacifiers. Usually these are the same types that have zero consideration for those around them.

Courtesy has long since left our society...reason number one to avoid places like movie theaters and malls.

-brickboy240

Renegade

01-14-14, 11:37

Agreed. But I think we all have the right to be a d-bag without worrying about getting killed for it, whether in a BBQ joint, on the road, or in a movie theater. But I also agree that it's wise to not take too much for granted.

Understood. I was seeing it from a "how to survive" view.

Hope you saw my ETA in #62.

Iraqgunz

01-14-14, 11:43

One thing I learned at the age where I could carry concealed is that you have to know when to turn away from the idiots and assholes. When I am carrying I generally make every effort to walk away. This seems to deter 98% of the asshattery that happens. Being nice ends with weapons being produced or physical force.

brickboy240

01-14-14, 11:44

Bad thing is these days, if you confront someone for their douch-bag behavior (...even in a nice manner) they often get very angry or aggressive.

I once honked at a guy sitting at what had become a green light, because he had his head down, texting on his phone and the light was green for quite some time. The guy gave me the finger and drove up next to me, shaking his fist and yelling like mad out the window. It was "F-this" and "F that" with my then 10 year old in the car with me. Classy! The guy started to get out of his car at the next intersection....I thought I was going to have to draw on him to get him to calm down.

This is also a huge problem in our society. You run a huge risk even if you are just asking someone to be polite or correcting them. People are angry and on edge about every little thing these days. Do you say something or just ignore them and move on?

-brickboy240

Caduceus

01-14-14, 11:48

Here's my question. CNN states this shooter is a retired captain from Tampa PD. Is this going to bring more scrutiny on him and his use of force, or will he suddenly get the police union to back him up (like many other OIS's)?

Honu

01-14-14, 14:11

carrying or not I would go to theater management demand my money back for having the show ruined

built a nice HT setup to THX standards in my home instead :) much nicer to be at home and just wait a while I can do whatever I want when watching :) figure its more than paid for itself over the years

yeah sad I feel I have to avoid places like theaters but anymore to many idiots and not worth it same thing as malls and places nothing there I need ?

streck

01-14-14, 14:20

If true. Book 'em, Danno. Maybe he can practice personal restraint in prison.

LINK (http://www.tampabay.com/news/publicsafety/crime/movie-theater-witnesses-no-punches-only-popcorn-thrown-before-shooting/2160911)

WESLEY CHAPEL — Witnesses in Monday's fatal movie theater shooting said the man who was killed hurled a bag of popcorn at the shooter, who then pulled a handgun and fired.

No punches were thrown between the men, according to a Pasco sheriff's report.

I wouldn't be surprised is the the shooting victim throwing the bag of popcorn becomes the justification for fear. However, he is a retired SWAT officer. I would expect better deescalation efforts from him....

usmcvet

01-14-14, 14:27

This may or may not be a justifiable shooting. I could see it going either way depending on the facts, which are pretty thin at this point. I'd be interested to see if the 71 year old had any injuries, or what is fear of injury was. It would have been better to just walk away or move seats.

NCPatrolAR

01-14-14, 14:51

or what is fear of injury was.

Likely a lethal popcorn shell stuck between his dentures

skydivr

01-14-14, 15:07

IF you are going to carry, you HAVE to be the bigger man and keep control of yourself and/or walk away. As the only way you will get away with shooting someone is if it's CLEARLY justified. We will see how this develops. You don't get to shoot a guy if he throws his popcorn at you...unless he's right behind it coming with it...

Lost River

01-14-14, 15:16

You outta see the comments on MSNBC..

"Police brutality never ends"..
"He should be put away for life"...
"No reason for guns"...

When it may well be, "71-year retired cop shoot's man assaulting him in theatre"...or "boy, did this guy pick the wrong person to assault"....

Don't **** with old guys.

They are too old to fight, so they will just kill you.

SteyrAUG

01-14-14, 15:30

Perhaps next time you see a 41 year old texting in a movie theater, don't draw your gun and kill him. Just another example where what used to be "common sense" and "adult level of emotional control" would have prevented the entire event.

Seriously, killing someone because they're texting in a movie theater? I don't care about the provocation, the end result is just not justifiable no matter how rude the douche with the cell phone was.

That's HARDLY what happened. If he walked over to the guy texting and simply shot him we wouldn't even be having this discussion. I can see people are willing to muddy the facts TM style already.

SteyrAUG

01-14-14, 15:32

Actually it makes sense to go get someone that works for the establishment that you are in since they are the ones tasked with enforcing the rules of the venue; not you.

Perhaps. But I always feel like an high school kid telling teacher on somebody. That and 95% of the time the kid and / or manager rarely does anything about it.

Irish

01-14-14, 16:03

It all comes down to someone having to be the mature adult and removing themselves from the situation. Decorum is no reason to be goaded into a gunfight.
I concur, vehemently. It seems everyone wants to jump up and down about "texting in a theater" and that the man should've stopped, which I agree with, but, the old dude could've just as easily got up and moved. As a retired SWAT guy I would've hoped that he would've showed a greater sense of maturity than bringing a gun to a popcorn fight.

he was not even texting during the movie. it was during the previews or commercials that are before the movie. they last forever and who gives a shit, other than this old man with an itchy trigger finger. I have been around enough older men that used to be in an authority position to know once they get riled up, they don't care what they do since they do not even consider the consequences since they have had people kissing their asses most of their adult life. esp a police captain.
I think there's a whole lot of truth in what you said regarding old dudes who used to be in a position of authority… As in, "What'd you just say to me?" kinda attitude forgetting that they don't have the muscle or the uniform to back it up anymore. I've seen it on more than a few occasions.

As it stands this will greatly impact both of their families for many, many years to come. If not indefinitely.

Moose-Knuckle

01-14-14, 16:24

After all that and the retired Capt. still didn't get to see Lone Survivor . . . hope it was worth it.

brickboy240

01-14-14, 16:40

A retired police captain does this?

There has GOT to be more to this story than the young guy was texting....the cop asked him to stop....the young guy says F U and then bullets fly.

Anyone know if a physical fight preceded the shooting?

I know we are hearing a large number of "cop goes crazy' stories lately but this just does not seem right unless the retired cop was physically attacked by the younger guy. It would be just like the media to leave out the part about the older guy getting assaulted. Media loves to leave out bits of info that do not support their agenda.

-brickboy240

Moose-Knuckle

01-14-14, 16:43

HKGuns

01-14-14, 16:54

Renegade

01-14-14, 16:55

You are more than likely correct, also I want to know the races of the actors. I really don't care what someone skin color is but depending upon these facts is how the media will spin it.

Everybody is white.

Media will spin it as nut with a gun. Who needs a gun in a movie theater (well the deceased obviously), ...

Hmac

01-14-14, 16:59

Moose-Knuckle

01-14-14, 17:21

Everybody is white.

Well I guess that is something, all FL needed is another "unarmed black child" getting shot by an evil white guy.

Media may not do a spin job on the whole CCW angle as it was a retired LEO who did the shooting, most states allow retired LEOs to carry.

austinN4

01-14-14, 17:29

Media may not do a spin job on the whole CCW angle as it was a retired LEO who did the shooting, most states allow retired LEOs to carry.
We do know he is retired LEO, but do we know for a fact if he has a CHL in addition to being retired LEO? Better for the rest of us if not.

SteyrAUG

01-14-14, 17:39

Agreed. But I think we all have the right to be a d-bag without worrying about getting killed for it, whether in a BBQ joint, on the road, or in a movie theater. I also agree that it's wise to not take too much for granted.

.

You may have the legal right to do some things, but that doesn't mean everyone is going to respect your legal rights. Best way to get through life without ass kickings, missing teeth and bullet holes is to not be a douchebag simply because you can.

There are LOTS of things I don't do to other people and it isn't because some law prevents me from doing it.

Vinh

01-14-14, 17:41

Vinh please think before you post next time.

Voodoochild.

SteyrAUG

01-14-14, 17:43

Likely a lethal popcorn shell stuck between his dentures

Popcorn shurikens are no joke.

austinN4

01-14-14, 17:58

................., as they were habitual offenders.
Details???

GeorgiaBoy

01-14-14, 18:16

From what we currently know, everyone would have walked out alive if a man who clearly didn't have the correct state of mind to be CCWing wasn't CCWing that evening.

Irish

01-14-14, 18:17

Absolutely no sympathy to the deceased or his wife, as they were habitual offenders.

The old man had the balls to do what none of us would ever dare do. Best of luck to him, as he is now engaged in the real fight for his life.

Any proof to your accusations?

ETA - I'm not sure what you mean by balls to do what none of us would ever dare do. Do you mean shoot someone for texting in a movie theater or for arguing with them?

fixit69

01-14-14, 18:22

Any one know if there is any video on this. I would like to know the real truth.

Irish

01-14-14, 18:24

This report: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/cops-friends-stunned-respected-captain-movie-theater-slaying-article-1.1578945

Friends of Oulson told the Associated Press that the father was texting his daughter's daycare.

And it may not be the first time Reeves confronted a fellow movie patron over texting as investigators are looking into another incident that may have involved the suspect less than three weeks ago.

At the same movie theater on Dec. 28 a woman told the Pasco County Sheriff’s Office she was texting during a movie and a man she believed was Reeves told her to put her phone away, Stacey Sumner, an assistant prosecutor with the Assistant State’s Attorney Sixth Judicial Circuit told The News.
He then got the manager and the woman complied, Sumner said. But after the movie on her way to the bathroom she said she saw the man she believed to be Reeves glare at her, Sumner said.

So it sounds like the repeat offender we're talking about is the Ex-SWAT Captain who's gonna be loving life behind bars with his old customers. Better to take lube Cap'n.

Hmac

01-14-14, 18:27

You may have the legal right to do some things, but that doesn't mean everyone is going to respect your legal rights. Best way to get through life without ass kickings, missing teeth and bullet holes is to not be a douchebag simply because you can.

There are LOTS of things I don't do to other people and it isn't because some law prevents me from doing it.

I also agree that it's wise to not take too much for granted.

......

SteyrAUG

01-14-14, 18:29

From what we currently know, everyone would have walked out alive if a man who clearly didn't have the correct state of mind to be CCWing wasn't CCWing that evening.

If all that happened was somebody threw a bag of popcorn at him, you are correct. But if there was any kind of actual physical threat or attack then that would change things. We are still in the "speculation" portion of this event.

As with the TM incident there is going to be all kinds of crazy on both sides and extra heaps of exaggeration on top of scant facts. And even when it all comes out and we know who did what and who was wrong there will still be people who will suggest otherwise.

It's why I don't go to public places and act like a douchebag, it's why I don't go to public places frequented by people who act like douchebags if I don't have to go. I used to LOVE going to the movies and used to do it once or twice a week. Now it's more like once or twice a year, and that is mostly because of the douchebags.

If I could find an "age restricted / proper conduct enforced" theater I'd probably go far more often. Most enjoyable theater experience I ever had was when TCM events showed Casablanca at a local theater. Not only do I love the movie, every single person in there knew how to act and I was actually able to watch and enjoy the film without being distracted by dipshits and douchebags.

Hmac

01-14-14, 18:30

usmcvet

01-14-14, 18:34

She thinks he is the same guy who glared at her on December 28th. That is damn week information. Nothing I'd hang my hat on.

Honu

01-14-14, 18:50

Everybody is white.

Media will spin it as nut with a gun. Who needs a gun in a movie theater (well the deceased obviously), ...

they will try to spin it as a white CONSERVATIVE COP REPUBLICAN TEA PARTY person :)

Honu

01-14-14, 18:53

liberal folks I know on Facebook are of course saying typical BS
nobody needs a gun and gun idiots use the excuse they protect people yet we know that never happens cause you never hear any stories on the news about people protecting themselves with a gun !

special kinda stupid for sure :)

3 AE

01-14-14, 19:30

Well, I'm pretty sure there will be a drop in cell phone/texting usage in theaters across the country once the movie starts. Theater owners might want to consider running a trailer prior to the start of a movie graphically depicting the dangers of texting during a showing. You know, a public safety message, "Don't text or use cell phones while driving, operating heavy machinery, piloting aircraft, walking across unprotected intersections, and for God's sake, NOT while the movie is showing! Thank you for your cooperation. Now sit back and enjoy the show."

HES

01-14-14, 22:06

NRA response: "This officer could have carried under LEOSA anyway. Removing the ability of law abiding citizens to defend themselves because of one lunatic is stupid."

Everyone except for the Jim Bradys of the world go "Ohhhhh...."

End.

From what I've been told, the crotchety old man put his hands on the douchebag 40yo first, which is why there hasn't been any talk of "self defense" or "stand your ground".

Nocco is a younger version of Grady Judd. If there is one Sheriff (save for Judd) that would be all about giving some douchebag violent movie goer a dirt nap it would be him. The fact that he is facing murder charges says a lot.

Agree. I like Nocco as our Sheriff and my buddies like working for him. Haven't seen anything in the official report that states that the shooter first touched the victim. In fact it looks like the victim threw a bag of popcorn at the shooter.

As you and I both said, douche on douche encounter.

Here is the thing. In FL if you attack a senior, it is an automatic felony. The shooters attorneys are gonna try to work SYG any way they can.

Caduceus

01-15-14, 04:30

Agree. I like Nocco as our Sheriff and my buddies like working for him. Haven't seen anything in the official report that states that the shooter first touched the victim. In fact it looks like the victim threw a bag of popcorn at the shooter.

As you and I both said, douche on douche encounter.

Here is the thing. In FL if you attack a senior, it is an automatic felony. The shooters attorneys are gonna try to work SYG any way they can.

Might be kind of hard, as they have a pattern of behavior, apparently.

http://www.cnn.com/2014/01/15/justice/florida-movie-theater-shooting/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

p22shooter30

01-15-14, 10:13

SteyrAUG

01-15-14, 12:17

Might be kind of hard, as they have a pattern of behavior, apparently.

http://www.cnn.com/2014/01/15/justice/florida-movie-theater-shooting/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

Wow, there is some damning evidence. When some other stupid bitch was texting during the movie in a prior incident he "glared at her the entire time throughout the movie" during a screening about three weeks ago.

This is what a LOT of people do when you are doing something wrong that is bothering them. Sounds like this guy was putting up with this bullshit frequently and just found his "screw it" line.

And what could Jamira Dixon have done three weeks ago that would have spared her the trauma of "being glared at"? Well gee if she simply turned her damn phone off before the movie started the entire incident wouldn't have happened. In fact if not for Jamira Dixon and the other legions of douchebags not observing basic common courtesy and movie theater etiquette Curtiss Reeves might never have reached critical "I can't believe it, it's happening again" mass. Nobody would be dead, he wouldn't be facing charges.

SteyrAUG

01-15-14, 12:20

kind of goes with what I said earlier that even if he put is phone away right away, this old bastard would not have left him alone. the behavior of these types of people is pretty predictable. jail is going to be a huge shock to him. im guessing there is no real remorse in him. he might fake some in the news or trial, but Im sure he doesn't feel guilty at all.

A few things.

1. If the grown adult had simply shut off his phone in the beginning there would be no incident.

2.If the guy had shut off his phone, rather than toss a bag of popcorn and escalate things, that probably would have been the end of it.

3. Reeves didn't go get a theater employee because it was his desire to confront and shoot somebody.

Irish

01-15-14, 12:24

If she wouldn't have been wearing that short skirt I wouldn't have raped her…

I wonder if that's what shooter will be thinking in a few weeks… If I wouldn't have been an asshole and shot someone over a text message I wouldn't be getting raped either. I'm sure being an ex-SWAT Captain he'll be well loved in prison.

Rattlehead

01-15-14, 13:29

Hmac

01-15-14, 14:01

Absolutely no sympathy to the deceased or his wife, as they were habitual offenders.

The old man had the balls to do what none of us would ever dare do. Best of luck to him, as he is now engaged in the real fight for his life.

What?

Please elaborate.

No. Please don't elaborate. His response is likely to be well off what most of us would consider normal human perception. There is a contingent in this thread that seems to feel that the dead victim was "asking for it" by texting in a movie theater before the movie even started. As if impoliteness is reason to kill someone. As if we should all somehow reasonably expect that we might be shot and killed for rude behavior. As if the solution to this problem is "don't text in a movie theater and you won't have to worry about being shot". I sense an unwillingness in this thread to accept this retired cop, obvious sociopath as aberrancy in a civilized society. Good lord.

davidjinks

01-15-14, 15:10

Some of you members here making the comments you're making…Should seriously reconsider carrying a firearm. Some of the comments here are atrocious!

DragonDoc

01-15-14, 15:35

What I want to know is why the elderly gentleman decided to engage in this situation. We all joke about the 70 and older crowd being ornery but this is a bit much.

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/documents/walmart-express-lane-rage-675432

Honu

01-15-14, 15:39

what they need to do is follow up on this guys love life in prison with some graphic video and play it at classes to what happens if you are stupid and decide a gun makes you change the way you approach things and might sink in yeah better to walk away even if you are not carrying ! and especially when you are !

can't see how he wins ? the other guy was sitting he approached him it sounds like ?

Moose-Knuckle

01-15-14, 15:59

What would a reasonable person do?

I, like many here consider myself to be considerate of those around me, and abhor those who do not possess similar qualities. With that said, I do not feel that a reasonable person would use deadly force after a 43 year old man threw a bag of popcorn at them (after they probably said something explicit to the man in the first place). Sure the 43 year old shouldn't have been dicking around on his phone during a movie but that is no reason to be gunned down in a public movie theatre. From the other witnesses that have come forward in regards to the same theatre and the suspect, it sounds like the old man believes that this is his personal universe and all others orbit around him. If he is so irked by people’s cell phone usage maybe he should invest in a big screen TV and a Netflix account.

montanadave

01-15-14, 16:50

austinN4

01-15-14, 16:52

If he is so irked by people’s cell phone usage maybe he should invest in a big screen TV and a Netflix account.
That is exactly what I did in 1996 and I haven't been in a movie theater since. I stopped going because of the rude people even back then.

I am not defending this guy and would have moved to another seat if I were him. But he didn't shoot the younger guy because he was texting. He claims he shot him because he was assualted after things escalated and that he was in fear of his life. I wasn't there so, unlike other people, I don't know what really happened. Time will tell how that works out for him, but it sounds to me like it was bad judgement all around, including the younger guy.

SteyrAUG

01-15-14, 17:09

If she wouldn't have been wearing that short skirt I wouldn't have raped her…

There's an apples to moon rocks comparison.

:sarcastic:

Again a little common courtesy for others could have prevented the entire matter. I don't think having a bag of popcorn thrown out you constitutes a "deadly threat" attack that justifies deadly force (assuming that is how it actually went down) but I'm looking at what could have been done to prevent the entire situation.

Here's an interesting thought exercise. Let's disarm the 71 year old Reeves. He has just returned from attempting to report Oulson to the manager for texting during the movie and 43 year old Oulson upon learning that he reported him has become confrontational and thrown his popcorn at Reeves.

Where do you believe that situation would be headed? Do you think 71 year old Reeves would have initiated any kind of physical assault against 43 year old Oulson upon returning to the movie or would he have simply sat back down and glared at him disapprovingly?

When Oulson initiated the confrontation and threw his bag of popcorn at Reeves, do you believe Reeves would have physically attacked Oulson in reply or is it more likely that he would have again left the theater and reported the popcorn assault to the manager.

Do you think Oulson having thrown his popcorn at Reeves would have stopped at that point and ceased any harassment or attack against Reeves or is it likely he would have continued to a physical confrontation and assault?

Do you see how this has no similarity to raping somebody because of how they are dressed?

You are allowed to be bothered by somebody texting in a movie theater.

You are allowed to report them to a manager.

They are allowed to be upset you reported them HOWEVER they are not allowed to throw things at you.

And THAT is where a line got crossed. Didn't cross into "deadly force" justification but that can sometimes be just a few more exits down the road.

Clearly Reeves "jumped the gun" and if the story we are hearing now is accurate he is not gonna get by with SYG laws and is going to probably be looking at some sort of manslaughter conviction.

But there were clearly TWO opportunities to that could have prevented this.

1. Oulson turning off his damn phone and not texting in the theater. If he needed to check on his daughters he needed to excuse himself from the theater and go someplace like the walkway to the theater, lobby, etc. and take care of it.

2. Oulson not getting confrontational because he was "reported." This means not throwing his popcorn at a 71 year old tattle tale. A simple "Hey I was just checking on my daughters, sorry if I annoyed you" probably would have saved his life. Things like "**** you buddy" and throwing things at people are just showing additional lack of consideration for everyone else in the theater who shouldn't have to deal with the spectacle in the first place.

Had either one of those simple, simple things been done both Reeves and Oulson would have seen the movie without incident. Reeves wouldn't be facing charges that will probably send him to jail and Oulson wouldn't be dead leaving the daughters he was so concerned for without a father.

Now being as how this is the internet I cannot stress enough that I don't support killing anyone because they called you names or threw popcorn at you. If that was the case our county population would drop by 30% in a month. It just isn't enough and you have to actually WAIT until the circumstances for use of deadly force present themselves or YOU become the bad guy.

But at the same time, nobody should have to deal with people throwing popcorn at them, calling them names or even texting in the theater. Simple, simple things like showing everyone around you basic courtesy can save lives and sometimes the life you save can be your own.

SteyrAUG

01-15-14, 17:14

If he is so irked by people’s cell phone usage maybe he should invest in a big screen TV and a Netflix account.

It keeps me from going to the movies but maybe a couple times a year. But regardless of what you have in your living room, unless your last name is Spielberg it just isn't quite the same. I've seen Casablanca probably a dozen times. When I saw it on the big screen a few years back it was amazing what a difference it makes.

I can't imagine having never seen Star Wars, Empire Strikes Back, etc. on the big screen. Saving Private Ryan just doesn't have the same impact on any home theater setup.

But for 99% of the movie viewing I do, it's in my living room. And that is just because I'm fed up with the high cost of sitting amongst douchebags and trying to enjoy a movie.

Honu

01-15-14, 17:42

build up a theater to THX standards go to around 120 inch screen or so in the home can be done for around 10K audio is key you need good stuff and be insanely good and viewing wise will be the same visually maybe not as awe but same perspective

perfect seating spot :) better sound than theaters etc..

It keeps me from going to the movies but maybe a couple times a year. But regardless of what you have in your living room, unless your last name is Spielberg it just isn't quite the same. I've seen Casablanca probably a dozen times. When I saw it on the big screen a few years back it was amazing what a difference it makes.

I can't imagine having never seen Star Wars, Empire Strikes Back, etc. on the big screen. Saving Private Ryan just doesn't have the same impact on any home theater setup.

But for 99% of the movie viewing I do, it's in my living room. And that is just because I'm fed up with the high cost of sitting amongst douchebags and trying to enjoy a movie.

NCPatrolAR

01-15-14, 17:50

What kind of places do some you guys live in to have so many problems at your local theater? I'm at the movies several times a month and can't recall the last time there was any kind if rude attendees or people throwing popcorn and 380s at each other

T2C

01-15-14, 18:00

Moose-Knuckle

01-15-14, 18:05

It keeps me from going to the movies but maybe a couple times a year. But regardless of what you have in your living room, unless your last name is Spielberg it just isn't quite the same. I've seen Casablanca probably a dozen times. When I saw it on the big screen a few years back it was amazing what a difference it makes.

I can't imagine having never seen Star Wars, Empire Strikes Back, etc. on the big screen. Saving Private Ryan just doesn't have the same impact on any home theater setup.

But for 99% of the movie viewing I do, it's in my living room. And that is just because I'm fed up with the high cost of sitting amongst douchebags and trying to enjoy a movie.

I hear you, but this is not limited to just the movie theatre. I cannot drive down the road a mile without running into "that guy". He's always with us at the grocery store, restaurants, gas stations, so on and so forth. I have several friends that refuse to step foot into any Wal-Mart stores for this very reason. Wal-Mart stores, bars, and gas stations seem to attract these 02 thieves more than any other place.

Howard Hughes had the right idea, but then again he was a billionaire. I read about him from time to time and always think to myself, "if I had the money I would do that to". Like the time he bought the Desert Inn resort in Las Vegas after the owners pissed him off and then the Silver Slipper Casino next to it just so he could reposition the hotel's trademark silver slipper neon sign that was shining into his penthouse keeping him up at night. It goes back to what I always say; "money can't buy you happiness but it sure as hell can make life more convenient".

Irish

01-15-14, 18:07

There's an apples to moon rocks comparison.

:sarcastic:
:)

Again a little common courtesy for others could have prevented the entire matter. I don't think having a bag of popcorn thrown out you constitutes a "deadly threat" attack that justifies deadly force (assuming that is how it actually went down) but I'm looking at what could have been done to prevent the entire situation.
Grumpy, old ex-SWAT cop dude could've got up and moved. But that's too easy. It sounds to me like he wanted conflict, he sought it out. He didn't choose the path of least resistance and was out to prove who was "in charge". Lingering effects of sporting a Captain's badge and having people jump when you tell them to.

Here's an interesting thought exercise. Let's disarm the 71 year old Reeves. He has just returned from attempting to report Oulson to the manager for texting during the movie and 43 year old Oulson upon learning that he reported him has become confrontational and thrown his popcorn at Reeves.

When Oulson initiated the confrontation and threw his bag of popcorn at Reeves, do you believe Reeves would have physically attacked Oulson in reply or is it more likely that he would have again left the theater and reported the popcorn assault to the manager.

Do you think Oulson having thrown his popcorn at Reeves would have stopped at that point and ceased any harassment or attack against Reeves or is it likely he would have continued to a physical confrontation and assault?
You're making an assumption that Oulson initiated the confrontation. As it stands the only thing we have to go off is media reports and we all know how accurate they are. There are reports of Reeves initiating the confrontation, verbally I believe, and Oulson hucking popcorn at him in response.

Do you see how this has no similarity to raping somebody because of how they are dressed?
My point was Reeves should've been able to control his own actions and not let them be dictated by someone else's actions, text messaging and throwing popcorn, maybe even talking shit. Pretty ****ing juvenile if you ask me and goes against any and all sane advice on self-defense.

But there were clearly TWO opportunities to that could have prevented this.

1. Oulson turning off his damn phone and not texting in the theater. If he needed to check on his daughters he needed to excuse himself from the theater and go someplace like the walkway to the theater, lobby, etc. and take care of it.

2. Oulson not getting confrontational because he was "reported." This means not throwing his popcorn at a 71 year old tattle tale. A simple "Hey I was just checking on my daughters, sorry if I annoyed you" probably would have saved his life. Things like "**** you buddy" and throwing things at people are just showing additional lack of consideration for everyone else in the theater who shouldn't have to deal with the spectacle in the first place.

Had either one of those simple, simple things been done both Reeves and Oulson would have seen the movie without incident. Reeves wouldn't be facing charges that will probably send him to jail and Oulson wouldn't be dead leaving the daughters he was so concerned for without a father.
There are other options. Reeves could've left well enough alone and chose another seat to watch the movie, asked for a refund or chose to ignore the evil texter.

SteyrAUG

01-15-14, 18:13

montanadave

01-15-14, 18:37

Too many folks seem to interpret "Stand Your Ground" as "Take No Shit."

The world's full of rude assholes. And killing one of 'em every time some body pushes your buttons is hardly a "proportionate response."

Safetyhit

01-15-14, 18:38

In fact if not for Jamira Dixon and the other legions of douchebags not observing basic common courtesy and movie theater etiquette Curtiss Reeves might never have reached critical "I can't believe it, it's happening again" mass. Nobody would be dead, he wouldn't be facing charges.

Dude...no. Have the same sort of issues here and there around this way, couldn't (don't go to movies anymore anyway) stand the culprits. That said there is no defending this fool who just helped set our cause back yet a bit further because he is not even close to being in control of himself.

Heavy Metal

01-15-14, 19:32

You are paying the theater to enforce its rules and provide you a pleasant Movie experience. If they fail to do so, your recourse should be with them. Refund, complaint to management...etc...

That said, it the old man had been carrying Pepper Spray, this would not likely have gone lethal either.

There are things that justify OC that do NOT justify Lethal Force. At a minimum, attempting to use the OC to resolve a threat shows you were not out for blood.

Sensei

01-15-14, 19:57

I hear you, but this is not limited to just the movie theatre. I cannot drive down the road a mile without running into "that guy". He's always with us at the grocery store, restaurants, gas stations, so on and so forth. I have several friends that refuse to step foot into any Wal-Mart stores for this very reason. Wal-Mart stores, bars, and gas stations seem to attract these 02 thieves more than any other place.[/I]

Is it possible that you are doing something to attract that guy? Then again, might you be that guy?

I ask because millions of us go about our business without ever running into that guy.

NCPatrolAR

01-15-14, 20:09

Is it possible that you are doing something to attract that guy? Then again, might you be that guy?

Aka if you are always running into assholes, what's the constant in each encounter?

T2C

01-15-14, 20:20

Moose-Knuckle

01-15-14, 20:29

Is it possible that you are doing something to attract that guy? Then again, might you be that guy?

I ask because millions of us go about our business without ever running into that guy.

Aka if you are always running into assholes, what's the constant in each encounter?

A question if I may . . .

Where do you gentlemen live that no one cuts you off in traffic then flips you the bird because after all you were in their way, or drives below the speed limit in the passing lane, doesn’t play loud videos/games/apps on their idiot phones while sitting in close proximity to you in a sit down restaurant, doesn’t blast "music" at level 10 from their cars and or home sound systems as if the world and it’s inhabitance was somehow interested in hearing it, has control of their offspring in the public domain instead of being of the parenting mindset that the world is their playground, so on and so forth?

misanthropist

01-15-14, 20:37

A question if I may . . .

Where do you gentlemen live that no one cuts you off in traffic then flips you the bird because after all you were in their way, or drives below the speed limit in the passing lane, doesn’t play loud videos/games/apps on their idiot phones while sitting in close proximity to you in a sit down restaurant, doesn’t blast "music" at level 10 from their cars and or home sound systems as if the world and it’s inhabitance was somehow interested in hearing it, has control of their offspring in the public domain instead of being of the parenting mindset that the world is their playground, so on and so forth?

Speaking only for myself of course...Canada.

"Don't text in movie theaters" seems like a rule that should come way further down the list than "don't shoot people to death for throwing popcorn."

I mean they're both rude but one is really obnoxious.

Eurodriver

01-15-14, 20:40

A question if I may . . .

Where do you gentlemen live that no one cuts you off in traffic then flips you the bird because after all you were in their way, or drives below the speed limit in the passing lane, doesn’t play loud videos/games/apps on their idiot phones while sitting in close proximity to you in a sit down restaurant, doesn’t blast "music" at level 10 from their cars and or home sound systems as if the world and it’s inhabitance was somehow interested in hearing it, has control of their offspring in the public domain instead of being of the parenting mindset that the world is their playground, so on and so forth?

Temple Terrace, Fl.

Probably because of guys like Reeves ;)

I did have a guy I was trying to allow into traffic go full retard and have no idea Wtf to do. I continued, never cutting him off or anything and I look to see him in the rear view mirror flipping me off with both hands - he wasn't even touching the steering wheel! At the same time a bird in the road caused me to hit thebrakes and i watched him swerve to avoid rear ending me and ran into the guard rail and lose a mirror.

I wonder if he is more polite now.

RHINOWSO

01-15-14, 20:44

A few things.

1. If the grown adult had simply shut off his phone in the beginning there would be no incident.

2.If the guy had shut off his phone, rather than toss a bag of popcorn and escalate things, that probably would have been the end of it.

3. Reeves didn't go get a theater employee because it was his desire to confront and shoot somebody.
And yet he still shot an unarmed husband and wife with multiple witness's present during a verbal altercation.

NCPatrolAR

01-15-14, 20:45

misanthropist

01-15-14, 20:45

No, he's probably posting on another forum about the guy who didn't see a dog run out in front of him right as he was trying to merge, and who was riding close enough to his blind spot that with his injured neck, he couldn't quite tell whether he had enough room. And while trying desperately to figure it out, that's when this dog came out of nowhere.

And then the guy ran him off the road. And the people on that forum probably all sympathize with him.

RHINOWSO

01-15-14, 20:45

T2C

01-15-14, 21:07

Let's not forget one thing. The younger man with the cell phone shares some responsibility for his death.

RHINOWSO

01-15-14, 21:27

Let's not forget one thing. The younger man with the cell phone shares some responsibility for his death.

Certainly, but it's no where near the 100% some make it out to be.

Moose-Knuckle

01-15-14, 21:37

North Carolina. Don't move here and screw it up either

Sounds like I hit a little too close to home with you? Maybe described some of your behavior?

Sensei

01-15-14, 21:40

Aka if you are always running into assholes, what's the constant in each encounter?

One of the best illustrations of karma catching up with that guy:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6bBVJAFrN0U

Moose-Knuckle

01-15-14, 21:42

Speaking only for myself of course...Canada.

You mean to tell me y'all don't have any assholes up in the Canada?

Temple Terrace, Fl.

Probably because of guys like Reeves ;)

:lol: Too soon?

NW Florida.

Must be nice, problem here is we have an awesome economy and job market thus EVERYONE and their brother is moving here with their bad habits.

montanadave

01-15-14, 21:48

One of the best illustrations of karma catching up with that guy:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6bBVJAFrN0U

Awesome! I only wish the air bag had busted his nose.

SeriousStudent

01-15-14, 21:51

Ladies and gentlemen, let's all lower the temperature, shall we?

Honestly, please ponder this. This is a forum where people have come together many times to help support others. We have much that unites us, and some things that we discuss and debate.

But let's all keep it a debate. Feelings are strong, but let us discuss reasonably the merits of the issue, and not needlessly bicker.

Thank you all.

SeriousStudent

01-15-14, 21:53

And that air bag thing was pretty doggone funny. ;)

NCPatrolAR

01-15-14, 21:55

Sounds like I hit a little too close to home with you? Maybe described some of your behavior?

Not at all. If not being around assholes is foreign to you then you're likely a contributing factor to the overall assholeism on your region. Thus, if you were to move into this region you would be contaminating it. We have enough issues with the New Yorkers that have taken up residence here. :)

misanthropist

01-15-14, 21:57

You mean to tell me y'all don't have any assholes up in the Canada?

We certainly have some but all of the behaviours you listed would be extremely unusual here. For example, I drive about 150 miles a day in a huge city and I can't even remember the last time I saw someone giving the finger to anyone for any reason. And playing with electronics with the sound on in public would definitely be seen as totally inappropriate here. It would almost certainly mark you as a visiting foreigner.

T2C

01-15-14, 21:57

One of the best illustrations of karma catching up with that guy:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6bBVJAFrN0U

That was funny. Poetic justice.

Heavy Metal

01-15-14, 21:58

You mean to tell me y'all don't have any assholes up in the Canada?

There is one asshole in Canada, his name is Scott and he is a doozy!

Koshinn

01-15-14, 21:59

We certainly have some but all of the behaviours you listed would be extremely unusual here. For example, I drive about 150 miles a day in a huge city and I can't even remember the last time I saw someone giving the finger to anyone for any reason. And playing with electronics with the sound on in public would definitely be seen as totally inappropriate here. It would almost certainly mark you as a visiting foreigner.

Do Canadians really apologize for everything? Like do you apologize to tourists even though they were doing something wrong?

misanthropist

01-15-14, 23:14

Yes and no...it's pretty common here to say "I'm sorry but XYZ..."

As in "I'm sorry but you can't park there, it's a handicapped spot." In a sense it's prefaced with an apology but you aren't really being apologized to.

But it's a lot more common for Canadians to say nothing and raise their eyebrows disapprovingly instead. Traditionally there is an expectation of civil behaviour here that is not supposed to require intervention. The Canadian temperament is fairly cold and most people are not looking to have an interaction at all.

One thing we struggle with as a result is dealing with large groups of foreigners. Much like Scandinavians we are not used to having to enforce standards of behaviour. People here voluntarily complied with fairly typically middle-class British standards for a very long time and consequently there is not an ingrained response to dealing with people who do not share our values.

Arctic1

01-16-14, 00:23

Let's not forget one thing. The younger man with the cell phone shares some responsibility for his death.

What?

You seriously cannot mean that.

_Stormin_

01-16-14, 01:03

What?

You seriously cannot mean that.

So you're telling me that if he had left the phone in his pocket, the same thing would have happened?

It can be said, and meant. It is an honest statement, and failing to agree with it does not make it any less true from a semantics standpoint. It's the intent behind the comment that's negative.

I'm holding back everything for the trial, and actually hoping that the man has a justifiable case for self defense. Not that I like seeing a man dead, but I want to give everyone the benefit of innocence.

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Moose-Knuckle

01-16-14, 03:42

If not being around assholes is foreign to you then you're likely a contributing factor to the overall assholeism on your region.

So how exactly did you get "assholes are foreign" to me from my post you referenced that was in response to Steyr?

It keeps me from going to the movies but maybe a couple times a year. But regardless of what you have in your living room, unless your last name is Spielberg it just isn't quite the same. I've seen Casablanca probably a dozen times. When I saw it on the big screen a few years back it was amazing what a difference it makes.

I can't imagine having never seen Star Wars, Empire Strikes Back, etc. on the big screen. Saving Private Ryan just doesn't have the same impact on any home theater setup.

But for 99% of the movie viewing I do, it's in my living room. And that is just because I'm fed up with the high cost of sitting amongst douchebags and trying to enjoy a movie.

I hear you, but this is not limited to just the movie theatre. I cannot drive down the road a mile without running into "that guy". He's always with us at the grocery store, restaurants, gas stations, so on and so forth. I have several friends that refuse to step foot into any Wal-Mart stores for this very reason. Wal-Mart stores, bars, and gas stations seem to attract these 02 thieves more than any other place.

Thus, if you were to move into this region you would be contaminating it. :)

It sounds like your region is already contaminated. ;)

Moose-Knuckle

01-16-14, 03:46

We certainly have some but all of the behaviours you listed would be extremely unusual here. For example, I drive about 150 miles a day in a huge city and I can't even remember the last time I saw someone giving the finger to anyone for any reason. And playing with electronics with the sound on in public would definitely be seen as totally inappropriate here. It would almost certainly mark you as a visiting foreigner.

Combine this with the total number of people to square miles in Canada and it sounds like Heaven on Earth to me.

Moose-Knuckle

01-16-14, 03:48

So you're telling me that if he had left the phone in his pocket, the same thing would have happened?

I'm holding back everything for the trial, and actually hoping that the man has a justifiable case for self defense. Not that I like seeing a man dead, but I want to give everyone the benefit of innocence.

Does that include the man with the cell phone that was shot to death?

streck

01-16-14, 06:09

So you're telling me that if he had left the phone in his pocket, the same thing would have happened?

PSA: No one should ever use their cell phone in public. You may piss off an elderly ex-cop that is willing to shoot you.

Hmac

01-16-14, 06:57

A question if I may . . .

Where do you gentlemen live that no one cuts you off in traffic then flips you the bird because after all you were in their way, or drives below the speed limit in the passing lane, doesn’t play loud videos/games/apps on their idiot phones while sitting in close proximity to you in a sit down restaurant, doesn’t blast "music" at level 10 from their cars and or home sound systems as if the world and it’s inhabitance was somehow interested in hearing it, has control of their offspring in the public domain instead of being of the parenting mindset that the world is their playground, so on and so forth?

Outstate Minnesota. Just don't see is as much as you apparently do. I am not known for a particularly high threshold for irritation, but I have found that it's not that hard to let those minor problems of life slide. With some people, however, even the tiniest things just eat at them...they can't let them go. That would be a sucky way to live. I suspect it's more about personality than location.

Hmac

01-16-14, 06:59

Let's not forget one thing. The younger man with the cell phone shares some responsibility for his death.

Bullshit. He did nothing that warranted being killed for.

Big A

01-16-14, 07:56

There is one asshole in Canada, his name is Scott and he is a doozy!

That's Scott, he's a dick.

p22shooter30

01-16-14, 08:42

the comments in this thread make it clear which members are over 50-60 and which are the younger guys.

and saying that the dead guy was partially responsible for his own death?!? are you serious?, thats like saying jim is responsible for being killed by that drunk driver since jim decided to drive to the store that day.

The fact that you think texting to check on your baby daughter during THE PREVIEWS of a movie makes you deserving to die is disgusting.

austinN4

01-16-14, 08:45

The fact that you think texting to check on your baby daughter during THE PREVIEWS of a movie makes you deserving to die is disgusting.
I don't recall anyone in this thread saying that. Can you point me to it?

Eurodriver

01-16-14, 08:49

The fact that you think texting to check on your baby daughter during THE PREVIEWS of a movie makes you deserving to die is disgusting.

That's not what anyone is saying, but certainly some here would argue that throwing popcorn at and shoving a man 30 years older than you at least "partly responsible"

p22shooter30

01-16-14, 09:12

The comment was removed by the moderator. went like this: "Absolutely no sympathy to the deceased or his wife, as they were habitual offenders.

The old man had the balls to do what none of us would ever dare do. Best of luck to him, as he is now engaged in the real fight for his life."

austinN4

01-16-14, 09:27

The comment was removed by the moderator. went like this: "Absolutely no sympathy to the deceased or his wife, as they were habitual offenders.
The old man had the balls to do what none of us would ever dare do. Best of luck to him, as he is now engaged in the real fight for his life."
That was one person. One! And I don't remember anybody agreeing with him.

montanadave

01-16-14, 09:33

That's Scott, he's a dick.

And he's a lousy tipper!

I ****in' HATE Scott!

Koshinn

01-16-14, 09:34

The fact that you think texting to check on your baby daughter during THE PREVIEWS of a movie makes you deserving to die is disgusting.

Strawman - the favorite fallacy of M4Carbine it seems.

No one is arguing that. The exchange did NOT go like this:
Victim: *txts daughter*
Old Man: Hey you youngin', stop messin with that there electronic thingamajig!
Victim: I will in a minute sir, I'm just telling my daughter that I love her and that I'll be home in a couple of hours.
Old Man: Git off ma lawn! *shoots Victim*

The texting started the events that lead to a shooting, it did not directly cause it. The direct cause was the physical and verbal altercation that occurred after and because of the texting. If that altercation was enough of a justification for a shooting is a worthwhile debate.

However, saying that people here advocate shooting someone for just texting in a movie theater is either ignorance, stupidity, or a willful attempt to stir the pot.

Regarding the debate itself, I don't think it was a justified shoot from the facts currently available. While throwing popcorn is technically criminal battery (or assault in some other states that have renamed battery to assault) and the man texting should have been kicked out of the theater, that does not justify shooting him. But there could be more to the story, which is why making a judgment now without all the facts is pointless. Look at Zimmerman vs Trayvon. Older man with a gun shoots an unarmed black kid. Seems like a murder, right? Well dig in to the story and it's an overweight, unfit old man vs a wrestler in his prime with a height advantage who had just bought some ingredients to get high and had beat the crap out of the older man until the older man drew a gun in self defense. WE DON'T HAVE ALL THE FACTS. Don't get too firmly entrenched in one side or another until we do. Keep an open mind.

Hmac

01-16-14, 09:55

The texting started the events that lead to a shooting, it did not directly cause it. The direct cause was the physical and verbal altercation that occurred after and because of the texting. If that altercation was enough of a justification for a shooting is a worthwhile debate.

Kind of splitting hairs. Nothing that's been reported so far, including the arraignment testimony, indicates any valid self-defense argument. Nothing that's been reported or testified to suggests any valid reason why lethal force should have played any role whatsoever. For that ex-cop to even take that gun out in that theater in that circumstance makes him a perfect poster boy for the Brady campaign, or anyone else who ever predicted "blood in the streets" if we legalize firearms carry. Fact is, that old guy killed that guy in the theater with no valid reason whatsoever (based on what witnesses have said, and what Judge Tepper, the prosecuter, and the cops have said so far).

Palmguy

01-16-14, 10:11

That's not what anyone is saying, but certainly some here would argue that throwing popcorn at and shoving a man 30 years older than you at least "partly responsible"

Has the bolded been established as at least likely to have occurred by any witness statements that have been made public? That's the first I've heard of it.

austinN4

01-16-14, 10:18

While I do think the old guy has lots of problems in front of him, I think I'll wait for the trial to be over to see what the jury says.

Koshinn

01-16-14, 10:30

Kind of splitting hairs.
It's not splitting hairs, it's being accurate. Say I was walking down the street and I said "hey" to someone as I passed by and he replied "hay is for horses." I asked what he meant and he said "**** off". Then it escalated from there to shouting, shoving, a fist fight, and ended with me running a mozambique drill into him before he could shank me with the knife he was holding.

Saying that I shot him because he said "hay is for horses" is exactly the same as saying the old man shot the other man for texting. It's what set the events into motion, but not what caused the shooting.

Nothing that's been reported so far, including the arraignment testimony, indicates any valid self-defense argument. Nothing that's been reported or testified to suggests any valid reason why lethal force should have played any role whatsoever. For that ex-cop to even take that gun out in that theater in that circumstance makes him a perfect poster boy for the Brady campaign, or anyone else who ever predicted "blood in the streets" if we legalize firearms carry. Fact is, that old guy killed that guy in the theater with no valid reason whatsoever (based on what witnesses have said, and what Judge Tepper, the prosecuter, and the cops have said so far).
Of course the prosecutor would say that the guy has no defense, that's his job.

It looks like pretty open and shut second degree murder. But that doesn't change the fact that the shooting didn't happen because of texting, it happened because of the verbal altercation and the bag of popcorn thrown at him.

AKDoug

01-16-14, 10:36

It's super bright and distracting. In most theaters, everyone behind the person texting can see it clearly. Coming back late to this thread.... this was pointed out to me by my wife, but I run my screen brightness way down so I didn't realize everyone else didn't. I've been known to browse threads on this forum while at movies. Honestly, movies are boring as Hell to me, but my wife doesn't like to go alone.

Hmac

01-16-14, 10:36

It looks like pretty open and shut second degree murder. But that doesn't change the fact that the shooting didn't happen because of texting, it happened because of the verbal altercation and the bag of popcorn thrown at him.

It's axiomatic that if A=B and B=C, then A=C.

Koshinn

01-16-14, 10:44

It's axiomatic that if A=B and B=C, then A=C.

You could say that:
If the guy hadn't gotten a baby sitter, he wouldn't have been texting the baby sitter, so the old man shot the guy because he had a babysitter.
If the movie theater manager hadn't been busy, he could have diffused the situation, so the old man shot the guy because the movie theater manager was busy.
IF the guy hadn't thrown a bag of popcorn at the old man, the old man wouldn't have shot him, so the old man shot the guy because he threw a bag of popcorn.
You could go on and on with the same argument.
A -> B -> C -> D -> E ... ZZzz

If ANY link in that chain had been broken, the end result arguably would not have happened. But blaming it on one link in the chain that gains the most sensationalism is just disingenuous. The cause is essentially the last link - the verbal altercation and thrown popcorn. It was the proverbial straw that broke the camel's back. Saying the cause was the texting is flat out wrong because it did not directly cause the shooting, the old man didn't shoot the other man as soon as he saw a cell phone come out or when he refused to put away his phone. Simple logic.

streck

01-16-14, 10:54

The potential problem for the shooter is that he initiated and maintained the contact. Not that he doesn't have a right to ask someone to put away a distracting cell phone but he contributed to the escalation of the contact. Being armed means the individual has a duty to avoid, deescalate, or disengage. Mr. Reeves failed to do all of that....

I would like to hear what this Deputy witnessed: LINK (http://www.tampabay.com/news/publicsafety/crime/movie-theater-witnesses-no-punches-only-popcorn-thrown-before-shooting/2160911)

Sumter County sheriff's Cpl. Alan Hamilton was sitting five seats away and grabbed the gun from Reeves, deputies say. The two struggled for control for a few seconds before Reeves let go. The gun was jammed when Hamilton turned it over to deputies.

Hmac

01-16-14, 10:55

If ANY link in that chain had been broken, the end result arguably would not have happened. But blaming it on one link in the chain that gains the most sensationalism is just disingenuous. The cause is essentially the last link - the verbal altercation and thrown popcorn. It was the proverbial straw that broke the camel's back. Saying the cause was the texting is flat out wrong because it did not directly cause the shooting, the old man didn't shoot the other man as soon as he saw a cell phone come out or when he refused to put away his phone. Simple logic.

Simple logic is that cell phone use pissed the old guy off, he initiated an argument, the other guy argued back, the old guy killed him. Cell phone use is not just the link with the most sensationalism, it's the proximate cause of the guy's death.

Assigning him part of the blame for his own murder.... now that's disengenuous.

_Stormin_

01-16-14, 11:01

Does that include the man with the cell phone that was shot to death?

Have I once said he "deserved it" or anything of the sort? No, I have not. I said that there are instances in which I can see the altercation escalating to the point where use of deadly force was justified. The fact that this has not become another complete circus in the media indicates that perhaps some of the MSM can see that possibility as well.

I just went to the movies (Lone Survivor in fact, great film, but that's another thread) and I could not tell you what was going on with the people four rows in front of me... If the altercation got physical, the old man would definitely have a serious concern for his life. As I have already said, I don't know too many 70 yr olds that could survive a beating from a man almost half their age.

Disappointed that many here can convict him online before his trial. We go on and on about the preservation of rights EVERY DAY, and some are forgetting the old man has them too? Keep and bear arms is sacred, but a prompt trial by a jury of ones peers with legal representation isn't? Sometimes people lose any and all perspective once they've formed an opinion. Thankfully the court of public opinion doesn't mean a damn thing.

Yes, the texter could be innocent, I have not said anything to the contrary. Only that this incident is a legal nightmare because of where it occurred. You've got a dark theater with lots of noise, terrible visibility, and as such you can pretty much count on a majority of the "eye witness" reports being people recalling what they only vaguely saw/heard in the first place.

The comment about his cell phone use being a contributing factor is backing up the cold but honest truth. The phone use and disrespectful behavior lead to an altercation that could have easily been avoided. His willingness to engage in such behavior indicated that his respect for others MAY be questionable. As such, if testimony emerges that the man wanted to make the disagreement into something more I would not be overly surprised.

Anecdotally, you can't work for my employer if you have too many traffic violations. It's not because we do any driving for work, but because the behavior itself indicates that your ability to follow the law may be questionable...

Either way, I'm entirely done with this thread. It's clear that some have found the man guilty without anything more than media reports and a charge, while others are holding back judgement.

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