View Full Version : Smoke pot lose your 2A Rigths
But, you can still go grab a bottle of scotch no doubt. Good old IL... :rolleyes:
Proposed medical marijuana rules: Your pot or your gun
Patients who want to qualify for medical marijuana in Illinois would have to be fingerprinted for a background check and pay $150 a year — and give up their right to own a gun, state officials proposed Tuesday.
The plan outlines how adults who have any of 41 specified medical conditions, such as cancer, AIDS or complex regional pain syndrome, may apply to get a patient registry identification card to purchase medical pot.
The proposed rules are the first in a series of parameters expected to be outlined over the course of the year to govern how medical marijuana can be legally grown, sold and purchased. The Illinois Department of Public Health will take public comment on this set of rules until Feb. 7 and then submit them to a legislative panel for approval by the end of April.
Cont:
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/ct-medical-marijuana-rules-met-20140122,0,1530419.story
SilverBullet432
01-22-14, 08:56
I don't do drugs, so im good :cool:
montanadave
01-22-14, 09:00
Total bullshit.
Total bullshit.
Yup. I don't use the stuff, don't recommend the stuff, but what makes a person using it - for medically approved use no less - some how inherently at risk of violence? Pot is not known for producing violent behavior. Now booze - which you can buy by the gallon container - is another matter...This is simply another example of a state attempting to find ways to chip away at people's 2A Rights and it's BS.
SilverBullet432
01-22-14, 09:22
Yup. I don't use the stuff, don't recommend the stuff, but what makes a person using it - for medically approved use no less - some how inherently at risk of violence? Pot is not known for producing violent behavior. Now booze - which you can buy by the gallon container - is another matter...This is simply another example of a state attempting to find ways to chip away at people's 2A Rights and it's BS.
While I don't agree with drugs, I do agree with you, but I feel like is this is some move to call gun owners pot heads now.... Think about it..
montanadave
01-22-14, 09:24
Your response, Will, pretty much mirrors my initial reaction. Whether a person subscribes to the legitimacy of "medical marijuana" is immaterial. If the law is on the books and a person follows those regulations, there is no valid reason to infringe on that person's 2A rights. There is no evidence they are "abusing" a legally prescribed substance or pose a public threat.
By the same rationale, why not prohibit anyone who has a prescription for opioid pain-killers from owning a firearm? Or anxiolytics? How about medications for depression?
And while we're at it, let's prohibit anyone convicted of DUI or any crime where alcohol was a factor from owning a firearm. As opposed to the prescribed drug examples above, at least these cases involve a person who has demonstrably "abused" a mind-altering substance and posed a threat to public safety.
I do not see how such a law will survive judicial review.
ICANHITHIMMAN
01-22-14, 09:52
Yup. I don't use the stuff, don't recommend the stuff, but what makes a person using it - for medically approved use no less - some how inherently at risk of violence? Pot is not known for producing violent behavior. Now booze - which you can buy by the gallon container - is another matter...This is simply another example of a state attempting to find ways to chip away at people's 2A Rights and it's BS.
Will that was well said, if it passes it will be used as a gauge by more liberal states in the future. "You have to choose sir, your chronic pain of your god given rights". Every person I know, that I consider a chronic user is anything but violent.
[QUOTE=WillBrink;1839998.This is simply another example of a state attempting to find ways to chip away at people's 2A Rights .[/QUOTE]
Yep... it doesn't matter if all of them don't even own guns... it get's something on the books. then the next politician in another State can say look... we've had this on books elsewhere all I'm suggesting is a very slight change. That is a favorite tactic of Tim Kaine. "Look, out of 50 states were are number 10 from the bottom on this tax... we can raise this tax a lot higher and still be well within national guidelines." Same thing. Take it from the people that don't care first. Get it on the books, then use it against the people that do care. Most Conservatives are push-overs for this tactic although they are slowly changing over the past several years.
I'll be honest with you... I don't even understand the whole mentality of the legalize it crowd. It seems like every one of them say hell yeah legalize it and tax the piss out of me for it. then I think wait a minute.... you just spent 50 years telling us it's a plant that grows in everyone's backyard. It's natural and not harmful.... then the best you can come up with is "let me have it for my own use but bend me over and ream me with taxes". It's the same with alcohol,,,, it's a State run racket.
You know this whole National wave of "legalize it" is not going to happen without the government making a huge capture on society. It won't just be taxes... the people wanting it legalized are begging to be taxed, that's a given. The government needs to line up all the possible control mechanisms before they 'follow the will and desire of the people'.
Ironically,,, if you took a large group of people and without knowing who they were, allowed them to speak freely, you would probably come to the conclusion that the people that sounded the craziest and possibly on drugs were in fact the politicians. .... man, .. it's like the water circling the drain..... You used to be able to look at other countries and think ok, we're not that screwed up....... not any more.
The problem is that an attempt at trading one thing for another is being introduced as if it were ever up for debate. Where did anyone offer to trade anything? Who believes that anything was up for trading to begin with?
.By the same rationale, why not prohibit anyone who has a prescription for opioid pain-killers from owning a firearm? Or anxiolytics? How about medications for depression?
.
I would assume that has to do with the usda drug "schedule" of the opiates in comparison to weed....just a wild guess. Also be careful what you wish for...lol
montanadave
01-22-14, 10:11
I would assume that has to do with the usda drug "schedule" of the opiates in comparison to weed....just a wild guess. Also be careful what you wish for...lol
The feds "schedule" drugs and, if the individual state has legalized marijuana for medical use, the state obviously disagrees with the federal government listing of marijuana as a Schedule I drug (i.e. "drugs with no currently accepted medical use and a high potential for abuse").
This is so bassackwards. If anything, the voters should make the demand that if there is to legalization of Marijuana and the subsequent taxation of the item then the State or Fed shall provide something to the voter in return. Instead, we're made to feel as if we should give up something.
The feds "schedule" drugs and, if the individual state has legalized marijuana for medical use, the state obviously disagrees with the federal government listing of marijuana as a Schedule I drug (i.e. "drugs with no currently accepted medical use and a high potential for abuse").
Well I guess not enough to trust weed smokers to own guns....
Plus this is IL we're talking about. Nothing new or crazy about them regulating firearms.
Putting the gun issue aside. Let's look at the other requirements for medical marijuana usage.
Patients who want to qualify for medical marijuana in Illinois would have to be fingerprinted for a background check and pay $150 a year — and give up their right to own a gun, state officials proposed Tuesday…
The state would have 180 days to act on an application. A patient would need to reapply annually to maintain the certification…
The possession or use of marijuana would be banned on school grounds or school buses, in any other vehicle and at child care businesses and correctional facilities. An exception is made to transport marijuana in a vehicle if it is in an inaccessible sealed container. Smoking marijuana also would be prohibited in health care facilities, anywhere that tobacco smoking is prohibited or in "any public place where an individual could reasonably be expected to be observed by others."
The law also would prohibit use of medical marijuana by police officers, firefighters, school bus and commercial drivers, and anyone who is not a qualified patient.
What other medical prescription requires the patient to be fingerprinted and have a background check conducted?
What other patient has to pay $150 a year to receive their medicine? What other patient must wait up to 180 days to receive their medicine and have to reapply yearly to receive their medication?
What other patient has to worry about taking their prescription with them to numerous prohibited places?
Are police officers, firefighters, school bus drivers and commercial drivers prohibited from any other type of prescription medicine?
No doubt a backwards law that originated in Chicago. I live in the heart of IL, don't touch the stuff,but still affects me the same. I think most of us will feel the same: This is BS.
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montanadave
01-22-14, 10:27
Well I guess not enough to trust weed smokers to own guns....
Plus this is IL we're talking about. Nothing new or crazy about them regulating firearms.
I would be foolish to dispute the facts in evidence. :)
Doc Safari
01-22-14, 10:29
I see this as a new tool of the left that they will eventually want to take nationwide and extend to alcohol, prescription drugs, high fat foods, tobacco, and violent TV shows or video games.
If you enjoy anything in this life that the left can paint as "harmful" you will lose your 2A rights.
It's coming.
We should legalize everything. Pot, heroin, PCP, meth, the whole shit. Let the weak minded die off and clean up the gene pool.
It's "We allow government."...Not "Government allows us."...
What comes first? The chicken or the egg?
We should legalize everything. Pot, heroin, PCP, meth, the whole shit. Let the weak minded die off and clean up the gene pool.
Can you imagine what we would have to endure while the politicians went through the meth cycle.... although Hillary makes me wonder sometimes now. How about Obama on meth... or the Emmanuel brothers. Most of them are nearly like functioning crack heads now. I don't think I could take much more.
I don't do drugs, so im good :cool:
You're missing the point.
SilverBullet432
01-22-14, 10:53
You're missing the point.
See my other post.
Will that was well said, if it passes it will be used as a gauge by more liberal states in the future. "You have to choose sir, your chronic pain of your god given rights". Every person I know, that I consider a chronic user is anything but violent.
So you're some poor SOB with cancer, and you're weak and tired, and smoking some pot makes you feel better, or eat more, or reduces pain, etc, and some POS decides you're an easy mark and decides to pull a hot robbery (or worse) on your place, but you have nadda to defend yourself with because you were given a choice between the two. W T F ???
BoringGuy45
01-22-14, 11:08
I feel it's a slippery slope. Per the 5th Amendment, people can only be deprived of certain rights through due process of law as a result of criminal behavior. But in this case, you lose a constitutional right for doing something that is legal per state law. What about regular prescription drugs? Someone has a severe injury or major surgery. How about we tell someone they permanently give up their 2A rights if they get a prescription for painkillers? How about someone who is dealing with major anxiety issues and needs medication to help them through a tough time? Do they forever lose a right for that? Hell, what if they hold the whole healthcare system hostage with 2A rights? You get chemo for cancer. You take immune boosters if you have HIV. You take heart medication or cholesterol control meds. You so much as a get a Z-Pack for bronchitis or a topical cream for acne. Sure, all that stuff is fine, BUT, we don't know what effect it might have on you, and we can't take the chance, so...turn 'em in.
Not to say that I'm super pro-pot. I've never smoked it and I can't imagine intentionally inhaling something that smells like a burning clutch, and I have better things to spend my money on, and I have a big enough appetite as it is. But I support it's legalization. Too much money, time, and blood has been dumped into prohibiting a drug whose opponents' best arguments against it is that it makes people lazy and it can be a gateway to heavier drugs. But they can't argue that it causes immediate severe damage to one's body like heroin, or that it causes violent behavior, or that it's easy to overdose, or that if you quit you could deal with debilitating withdrawal symptoms. Also, I'd say about 95% of the people I know have at least tried it, and a good half of those smoked it recreationally or at least socially at one time or another and quit when they grew up and had jobs and families to worry about. I can't think of anyone who wasn't already trash when they started smoking pot who is now doing heavier drugs. Most people just grow out of it.
My point being is that it's utterly ridiculous to take away a right over the stuff. There should be nothing, NOTHING, recognized in the Constitution that can be taken away administratively rather than judiciously.
^ What he said
ETA: Holding the 2A out there like a dangling carrot seems rather likely. Reflecting on all that's been going on lately...I wouldn't care if Marijuana was never legalized. What I do care about are our unalienable Constitutional rights.
If they want to legalize it then tax it, then let's vote on it. But DO NOT force me to give up something of mine so you can get what YOU want.
Just another attack on 2A rights. Has nothing to do with drugs. What's next? Take prescription pain killers, headache medicine, oncology meds, blood pressure meds, low-T supplements lose 2A rights too?
Gentlemen, medical use should not constitute loss of constitutional rights. Only a criminal act should place someone in court and then it should be determined by a judge and quite frankly even these laws are so loose that what constitutes as a cause is questionable. This is all a ploy to ban firearms.
Putting the gun issue aside. Let's look at the other requirements for medical marijuana usage.
What other medical prescription requires the patient to be fingerprinted and have a background check conducted?
What other patient has to pay $150 a year to receive their medicine? What other patient must wait up to 180 days to receive their medicine and have to reapply yearly to receive their medication?
What other patient has to worry about taking their prescription with them to numerous prohibited places?
Are police officers, firefighters, school bus drivers and commercial drivers prohibited from any other type of prescription medicine?
Exactly what I was going to say.
exkc135driver
01-22-14, 12:34
There should be nothing, NOTHING, recognized in the Constitution that can be taken away administratively rather than judiciously.
I concur ... but I think you meant to say "judicially"?
[QUOTE=WillBrink;1839964]But, you can still go grab a bottle of scotch no doubt. Good old IL... :rolleyes:
Proposed medical marijuana rules: Your pot or your gun
Pot or gun only applies if one buys their marijuana from the gov. Currently it is all private sales...script free, tax free and sellers don't care if you have a gun or anything else. **** the gov.
BoringGuy45
01-22-14, 14:01
I concur ... but I think you meant to say "judicially"?
Yeah, didn't check that :o
But, you can still go grab a bottle of scotch no doubt. Good old IL... :rolleyes:
Proposed medical marijuana rules: Your pot or your gun
Pot or gun only applies if one buys their marijuana from the gov. Currently it is all private sales...script free, tax free and sellers don't care if you have a gun or anything else. **** the gov.
And? Is that supposed to make it better? It's just a matter of time 'till the 'gubment wants their cut...Or just an FIY?
I hope big time they enact this and then try it on booze to and get that enacted !!
it might finally light a fire under how out of control our gov has become and maybe then the backlash will start !!!!!
we need something to snap in this country to many are comfortable with it does not effect me types and with how many drink beer etc.. would be a eye opening thing to realize that little things effect you
I dont do drugs but I do think the legalize marijuana thing is bad the way its being implemented its a big joke but then so are all scrips these days ! kids don't do pot as much as they do there parents drug cabinet
We should legalize everything. Pot, heroin, PCP, meth, the whole shit. Let the weak minded die off and clean up the gene pool.
Only problem with that idea is the shitload of collateral damage they will cause to people and property before they finally ****ing die.
Personally I think there should be maximum security "clinics" where you can sign in, use all the drugs you want but can't leave until you are completely sober and stable. I'd even consider tax payer subsidized drugs so they can do all they want for free and be 100% OFF the street and away from the public.
Mo_Zam_Beek
01-22-14, 17:32
Recognize the social engineering aspect of this: the typical "patient" is likely to be a 20 -35 yr old male - prime group to knock out of the 2A box, and a pivotable voting block both now and as they age. This is not an attack on patients rights, this is merely a probe to see what this demographic will bargain for. If they are willing to make the trade, (unbeknownst to them) it is likely a life long abdication of the right.
Secondly, Medical MJ is a misnomer. The way it is advocated for it isn't about medicine. It is a prelude to legalization. What I don't think most of the advocates get is that legalization is merely the illusion of freedom. Control will merely be reestablished elsewhere and likely with as great if not greater draconian impacts.
RogerinTPA
01-22-14, 17:39
No doubt a backwards law that originated in Chicago. I live in the heart of IL, don't touch the stuff,but still affects me the same. I think most of us will feel the same: This is BS.
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No doubt this law has it's origins from chicago, where liberalism is a disease, which surpasses the medical condition of 'being all ate up with the dumb ass'. I'm surprised people aren't leaving that state in droves...
Mass Apathy - Calm the sheep so much that they care little about what goes on around them or to them....until it's time for the slaughter to start...
RancidSumo
01-22-14, 18:34
Easy fix: completely legalize it.
You have to be pretty stone age in your thinking to be opposed to legalized pot at this point. If I can grab an eighth at the gas station along with my case of beer then they can't do shit about my gun ownership.
RancidSumo
01-22-14, 18:40
[QUOTE=WillBrink;1839964]But, you can still go grab a bottle of scotch no doubt. Good old IL... :rolleyes:
Proposed medical marijuana rules: Your pot or your gun
Pot or gun only applies if one buys their marijuana from the gov. Currently it is all private sales...script free, tax free and sellers don't care if you have a gun or anything else. **** the gov.
Exactly. This is what adding all kinds of regulations and bullshit on top of a half assed attempt at ending a portion of the drug war results in. Prices here in Colorado went full retard even before the taxes. Everyone I know just kept their old dealer and don't even worry about it now since possession is legal no matter where you bought it.
Keep the government out of it and soon prices would stabilize and make going to a legitimate shop a more palatable prospect.
Patients who want to qualify for medical marijuana in Illinois would have to be fingerprinted for a background check and pay $150 a year — and give up their right to own a gun, state officials proposed Tuesday.
All part of The Plan. Hopefully this goes to the SCOTUS as well.
[QUOTE=Airhasz;1840173]
Exactly. This is what adding all kinds of regulations and bullshit on top of a half assed attempt at ending a portion of the drug war results in. Prices here in Colorado went full retard even before the taxes. Everyone I know just kept their old dealer and don't even worry about it now since possession is legal no matter where you bought it.
Keep the government out of it and soon prices would stabilize and make going to a legitimate shop a more palatable prospect.
Isnt that kinda like a double negative lol? Lets face it, legitimate and dopers don't really go hand in hand lol.
RancidSumo
01-22-14, 20:11
[QUOTE=RancidSumo;1840358]
Isnt that kinda like a double negative lol? Lets face it, legitimate and dopers don't really go hand in hand lol.
Huh? You completely lost me with that first sentence. Am I missing some sort of inside joke? I know several "dopers" that I'd bet serious money are more successful and well adjusted than the majority of this board.
brushy bill
01-22-14, 20:27
Just another attack on 2A rights. Has nothing to do with drugs. What's next? Take prescription pain killers, headache medicine, oncology meds, blood pressure meds, low-T supplements lose 2A rights too?
Gentlemen, medical use should not constitute loss of constitutional rights. Only a criminal act should place someone in court and then it should be determined by a judge and quite frankly even these laws are so loose that what constitutes as a cause is questionable. This is all a ploy to ban firearms.
Nailed it
I think what frightens me most about all of this is that there seems to be a big chunk of folks that are more concerned with getting high than they are of forfeiting their fundamental right to defend themselves (proper wording?). Why do they value getting blitzed over their RKBA?
ETA: This nation was strongest when it was universally understood by all that the People, the Citizens, were well armed. I'm afraid that once the majority becomes a confused mass of dopers, our country, our nation, our home will become nothing more than some weak, tired memory.
MountainRaven
01-22-14, 20:48
Shortly after Montana legalized medical marijuana, the ATF sent out letters to all FFL holders that anyone who uses marijuana for any reason is considered to be an unlawful user of - or addicted to - a controlled substance and therefore prohibited from purchasing or attempting to purchase a firearm.
So, hey, welcome to the party guys!
;)
I know several "dopers" that I'd bet serious money are more successful and well adjusted than the majority of this board.
Me too. Several have funny initials written by their name like "Dr." and "Esq." and more than a couple are engineers.
Only problem with that idea is the shitload of collateral damage they will cause to people and property before they finally ****ing die.
Personally I think there should be maximum security "clinics" where you can sign in, use all the drugs you want but can't leave until you are completely sober and stable. I'd even consider tax payer subsidized drugs so they can do all they want for free and be 100% OFF the street and away from the public.
I'm all for legalizing any drug you want sports fans. I only have one condition that sort of drills right into at least part of the point above.
I'm not for subsidizing anything...the deadbeats are already reaching far too deeply into my pockets.
My condition is that you get put on a list and you are required to sign a waiver that you will never take any form of Government assistance. No Unemployment when you lose your job because you were stoned. No Food stamps, no free medical insurance to pay for the damage you have done to whatever part of the body your drug of choice ruins. That way you are truly free to do whatever you like.
Nothing - Nada - Zilch - Squat
BTW: The successful dopers are not in the normal distribution they are at one of the tails. There are exceptions to everything.
montanadave
01-22-14, 22:38
As long as we include alcohol and nicotine on that list of drugs.
So what about in CO where it just became legal for non medical use?
Will that was well said, if it passes it will be used as a gauge by more liberal states in the future. "You have to choose sir, your chronic pain of your god given rights". Every person I know, that I consider a chronic user is anything but violent.
Considering NYs plan to ease restrictions on marijuana usage in both the short and long term I bet I know where we'll be seeing something similar.
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By the same rationale, why not prohibit anyone who has a prescription for opioid pain-killers from owning a firearm? Or anxiolytics? How about medications for depression?
And while we're at it, let's prohibit anyone convicted of DUI or any crime where alcohol was a factor from owning a firearm. As opposed to the prescribed drug examples above, at least these cases involve a person who has demonstrably "abused" a mind-altering substance and posed a threat to public safety.
Give it time.........
[QUOTE=J-Dub;1840403]
Huh? You completely lost me with that first sentence. Am I missing some sort of inside joke? I know several "dopers" that I'd bet serious money are more successful and well adjusted than the majority of this board.
Cool story bro. Your "several" doper buddies are living on the fringe of the bell curve, if you get my drift. (not to mention "more successful and well adjusted" is highly subjective)
I don't really care what other people put in THEIR body, but then again Im honestly just sick and tired of hearing the weed smokers bitching about legalization. Move on with your life. Go get a hobby, maybe alcoholism, gambling problem, ect. There are far more entertaining ways to ruin your life, and stink up your car/house/clothes/ect.
And no people shouldn't barter their rights for their "medicine".
Me too. Several have funny initials written by their name like "Dr." and "Esq." and more than a couple are engineers.
Stereotypes abound and die hard. No one seems to have any issue understanding various highly successful people having a few glasses of wine at end of a hard day, but anyone smokes pot is a "doper" who has dreadlocks, does not work, and spend all day on a skate board, or what ever their version of the stereo type is.
Similar to what anti gun type think of gun owner, they drive pick up trucks, with a rebel flag, and gun rack.
People need to move past the stereotypes and move onto more productive issues.
I personally don't believe that even alcohol makes a person any more violent then they are already inclined to be. Having been around stoners, I can't see any of them purposefully shooting anyone.
However; make pot "cool" (I'm half convinced that people only smoke pot because it's illegal and thus somehow cool), then if you want to use it, you gotta give up your guns. I wonder what else will be offered in the future for disarming.
As long as we include alcohol and nicotine on that list of drugs.
Nicotine? Really? Then next you would have caffeine, then before you know it you'd have to be a straight edger to own a weapon.
I personally don't believe that even alcohol makes a person any more violent then they are already inclined to be. Having been around stoners, I can't see any of them purposefully shooting anyone.
However; make pot "cool" (I'm half convinced that people only smoke pot because it's illegal and thus somehow cool), then if you want to use it, you gotta give up your guns. I wonder what else will be offered in the future for disarming.
Nicotine? Really? Then next you would have caffeine, then before you know it you'd have to be a straight edger to own a weapon.
Not my area of expertise as to the mechanisms of alcohol and behavior, but I think that's generally correct. Alcohol lowers inhibitions, and those with violent tendencies will have a lower threshold when drinking to get violent. I believe that's the basic premise.
Eurodriver
01-23-14, 08:12
Me too. Several have funny initials written by their name like "Dr." and "Esq." and more than a couple are engineers.
Perspective my dear lad (see what I did there, Irish?)
J-Dub doesn't encounter "dopers" that are successful. I bet he has neighbors that toke up on the regular, too. The only time he encounters roaches are when they're stuffed underneath the front seat of a stolen car so he equates pot with criminal/scourge on society.
I bet he also finds cigarettes, old French fries, and loose change but only the pot gets the blame for that person being a ****-up.
I'll never forget one of my HS Girlfriends. She was a sweetheart. Her parents had good money and a nice house. She was an honors student in a magnet engineering program and her mom was an M.D. One day I came over on a Saturday afternoon and her parents were just sitting on the porch smoking blunts and eating Zebra cakes giggling like little school girls. They made no attempt at hiding it and it was regarded as normal as watching television is.
Coming from a HS where only the 20 year old dropout hoodrat thugs smoked weed, this was a big adjustment...and a great learning experience.
exkc135driver
01-23-14, 08:30
Stereotypes abound and die hard. No one seems to have any issue understanding various highly successful people having a few glasses of wine at end of a hard day, but anyone smokes pot is a "doper" who has dreadlocks, does not work, and spend all day on a skate board, or what ever their version of the stereo type is.
Similar to what anti gun type think of gun owner, they drive pick up trucks, with a rebel flag, and gun rack.
^ Exactly!!
But more importantly, this:
People need to move past the stereotypes and move onto more productive issues.
Are y'all listening?
... but anyone smokes pot is a "doper" who has dreadlocks, does not work, and spend all day on a skate board, or what ever their version of the stereo type is.
.... and then they go put on their favorite Willie Nelson CD. I'm waiting to see who will grace the first cover of Marijuana Aficionado. I'm going with Skunk Baxter. He's a natural. Who else is a missile defense designing long haired hippie guitar playing doobie brother?
Are y'all listening?
You must be new here. :cool:
.... and then they go put on their favorite Willie Nelson CD. I'm waiting to see who will grace the first cover of Marijuana Aficionado. I'm going with Skunk Baxter. He's a natural. Who else is a missile defense designing long haired hippie guitar playing doobie brother?
This will cover most stereo types nicely as well as being a catchy toon ::dance3:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WeYsTmIzjkw
Out her in AZ, I have a buddy who is a Medical Marijewanda card holder. He had to give up his CCW..... but we have no CCW requirement to carry concealed.
Out her in AZ, I have a buddy who is a Medical Marijewanda card holder. He had to give up his CCW..... but we have no CCW requirement to carry concealed.
Can you expand on this please? He had to give up his CCW meaning his firearm or he had to give up his permit/license?
To me CCW= Concealed Carry Weapon, CWP/CHL = permit/license.
And why does AZ issue permits if they aren't required? Seems like a waste of resources to me...
I honestly thought they would do it in the correct order.
Let individual states legalize and get consumer information, don't change the federal laws, and then have the feds take your guns away. Legally of course since you are breaking federal law. Seems like IL did not get that memo.
If this goes through it will just be a matter of time before they use it on anyone getting any type of pain medication.
Enjoy your guns while we can boys, the odds of our grandchildren getting them are getting pretty f$%king slim.
Perspective my dear lad (see what I did there, Irish?)
J-Dub doesn't encounter "dopers" that are successful. I bet he has neighbors that toke up on the regular, too. The only time he encounters roaches are when they're stuffed underneath the front seat of a stolen car so he equates pot with criminal/scourge on society. .
Neighbors that "toke up"? Lol I wish broseph...well I guess tweakers smoke a little to mellow before their next bender. Make no mistake about it, 90% of the P.O.S's that I encounter that have weed on them were P.O.S's before they started smoking weed.....its just something they had to do to stay in the P.O.S. club. My perspective is that the "medicinal" pot smoker is the 1%er of the weed world, the rest are idiots (lump those in with the binge drinkers too).
Quite honestly I wish it was legal, because I cant stand the way the shit smells (ya ya every pot head is quick to point that it must not be "good" weed, well yes you can tell the difference in quality by smell....but it still smells like skunk asshole never the less). I HATE dealing with it, the smell alone makes me sick to my stomach. How someone could inhale that nasty garbage is beyond me...I think I'd rather eat cigarette ashes than smell weed.
I say make it legal. Then for a promotional incentive for every OZ you buy, you get a free hipoint. Support "medicine", and the 2A!
Stereotypes abound and die hard. No one seems to have any issue understanding various highly successful people having a few glasses of wine at end of a hard day, but anyone smokes pot is a "doper" who has dreadlocks, does not work, and spend all day on a skate board, or what ever their version of the stereo type is.
Similar to what anti gun type think of gun owner, they drive pick up trucks, with a rebel flag, and gun rack.
People need to move past the stereotypes and move onto more productive issues.
Very well put.
Can you expand on this please? He had to give up his CCW meaning his firearm or he had to give up his permit/license?
To me CCW= Concealed Carry Weapon, CWP/CHL = permit/license.
And why does AZ issue permits if they aren't required? Seems like a waste of resources to me...
Gave up his permit. AZ still issues CCWs, and I accidentally let mine completely lapse. It's nice for buying guns, because you skip the NCIC check.
What happened in AZ is that we got the CCW option years back... at that time the requirements were more thorough. As years went by the CCW requirement shrunk. Then the laws changed to where no permit was required to Conceal. So that's why you have both.
thopkins22
01-23-14, 14:28
And why does AZ issue permits if they aren't required? Seems like a waste of resources to me...
People that live in AZ might occasionally like to leave the state and be able to legally carry concealed....
I was just wondering. Concerning the states that have legalized it (medicinal and/or recreational): Who is regulating Marijuana? Has the FDA become involved? Does it fall under BATFE purview?
I was just wondering. Concerning the states that have legalized it (medicinal and/or recreational): Who is regulating Marijuana? Has the FDA become involved? Does it fall under BATFE purview?
In Colorado it it is the Marijuana Enforcement Division of the Colorado Department of Revenue that handles both the medical and recreational MJ regulation/rules/laws.
You can find more info here:
http://www.colorado.gov/cs/Satellite/Rev-MMJ/CBON/1251592984795
To answer your question, no the FDA has not YET become involved, the regulations put in place for testing of commercially sold marijuana are quite stringent.
IT has to be tested/analyzed and labelled by an independent 3rd party lab, all nutrients/chemicals/anything that goes into the soil or on the plant has to be listed on every bag sold, along with where it was gorwn, how it was grown, the concentration levels of THC, CBD & CBN; and the bag has to be designed so as not to allow easy access for children.
There are a lot of other regulations, but they can be found quite easily with an internet search...
The law Illinois is proposing regarding loosing a right if you get an MMJ card is just complete bullshit by the way.
Such a slippery slope and I am sure that is the whole intent anyways, just to narrow who can
"legally" own firearms. Set the precedent and then add anything and everything they can get to the list of what makes you unworthy of your natural born rights. Back door confiscation and social engineering the next generation to embrace weed, not their rights. ****ing bullshit!
I'm sure there are politicos out there that would take away our guns for any reason they could justify- falsely or otherwise.
It reminds me of the thread about how some would like blind people to be inelligable for conceal carry permits. The justification seems reasonable on the surface (NOT TO ME, but to most), but then when you get into other diseases & afflictions and what not and how the same justification could be used to strip rights away due to all sorts of illnesses (Diabetes for instance- can cause uncontrollable tremors; wouldn't want those shaky folks having guns in public now would we...) it gets as slippery as a greased up pig in a pool of whip cream sliding down a steep slope.
The only people who should not have rights, are felons currently incarcerated. If they cannot be trusted to defend themselves and own a gun after paying their debt/upon returning to society, they shouldn't be released into society in the first place.
Frankly, I don't really think you can voluntarily sign away a Right. Although I had to modify a few during military service, even then I couldn't just SIGN them away...
Regarding post #69 - Thanks. Way I see it, every state in the Union is looking at this and they see a cash cow. If they want to legalize recreational marijuana so it can be taxed, we as voters should demand things in return. You know what they say about cake and eating it too and whatnot.
ETA: Apology to the OP. I've realized I have started to steer away from the subject.
Illinois ain't doing anything that wouldn't be done anyway. If you use marijuana, you are prohibitted from purchasing a firearm because it's illegal at the federal level and the background check that must be passed is backed by the feds.
Marijuana creates a dependancy in the user. People who get high are less aware of their surroundings and need to be watched after and protected from themselves and others. That's why statists want drugs legalized Same reeason they want socialized medicine, intrusive laws to "protect the environment" and other programs to take away our free agency and make us more dependant on the state.
If marijuana was really being legalized for medical purposes, why don't they just make it part of the pharmaceutical system? The proponents of medical marijuana are making pot out to be some kind of miracle drug. Their claims remind me of the snakeoil salesman selling their miracle elixirs guaranteed to cure everything from the pox to menopause, never mind most "elixirs" were made of laudanum, rubbing alcohol and kerosene.
Don't forget, it was the same crew that legalized pot in Colorado that banned "high capacity" magazines
Actually it's not a waste of resources and I'll assume since you don't live here, you don't understand AZ weapon(s) laws.
1. We do not issue concealed pistol permits or firearms permits. We have concealed weapons permits. There is a difference. This means that you can carry more than just a handgun. You can conceal knives, etc... Also our legislature passed a preemption law a few years back regarding knives. This means a local ordinance cannot be passed restricting them. Knives are not generally categorized as deadly weapons, but rather as tools. That means you can carry knives concealed as well with a permit (but you must obey the same restrictions on where they are allowed/prohibited). In addition we can also have switchblades, etc..
2. You cannot legally carry in a bar or restaurant that serves alcohol without a permit.
3. If you have a permit you are not required to go through the NICS circus. That means pay your money and out the door in minutes.
4. Arizona permits are valid in several states. So that means when you travel you can legally carry instead of being defenseless.
Can you expand on this please? He had to give up his CCW meaning his firearm or he had to give up his permit/license?
To me CCW= Concealed Carry Weapon, CWP/CHL = permit/license.
And why does AZ issue permits if they aren't required? Seems like a waste of resources to me...
3. If you have a permit you are not required to go through the NICS circus. That means pay your money and out the door in minutes.
That's nice. I wish WI would adopt that.
I also have an AZ permit. It really expanded the amount of states I can carry in.
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Illinois ain't doing anything that wouldn't be done anyway. If you use marijuana, you are prohibitted from purchasing a firearm because it's illegal at the federal level and the background check that must be passed is backed by the feds.
Marijuana creates a dependancy in the user. People who get high are less aware of their surroundings and need to be watched after and protected from themselves and others. That's why statists want drugs legalized Same reeason they want socialized medicine, intrusive laws to "protect the environment" and other programs to take away our free agency and make us more dependant on the state.
If marijuana was really being legalized for medical purposes, why don't they just make it part of the pharmaceutical system? The proponents of medical marijuana are making pot out to be some kind of miracle drug. Their claims remind me of the snakeoil salesman selling their miracle elixirs guaranteed to cure everything from the pox to menopause, never mind most "elixirs" were made of laudanum, rubbing alcohol and kerosene.
Don't forget, it was the same crew that legalized pot in Colorado that banned "high capacity" magazines
A few things.
1) Please show me where it was the same group responsible for amendment 64 that was also responsible for the magazine ban. I would like to see the evidence/link that you have found there.
2) Bolded part of your comment -Umm. Okay so basically the same thing as those who drink alcohol, so what is your point? We should only remove the rights of those who chose MJ as their drug of choice instead of alcohol?
Cause people who drink never have dependency issues, are always 100% aware of their surroundings and never need anyone to look over them- RIGHT?
I would say alcohol has a greater tendency to turn people into mindless sheep than MJ does. Just look at how many people don't give a **** as long as they have a cold six pack and dancing with the stars.
Smoking marijuana doesn't instantly make you a sheep of the state and someone who cannot responsibly own and use firearms; thats just nonsense; the same logic should be applied accross the board to alcohol as well if you are being honest with yourself.
In fact a great deal of people would argue that MJ opens your mind to different ways of thinking and thus has the exact oppossite affect of what you are positing. I actually know of several people who didn't come around to firearms until after they had been iontroduced to MJ and started thinking about things a bit differently.
Both opinions are valid and sqaurely supported by reality if one is being honest with themselves. Some people smoke pot and become idiots, some know how to handle it and ski within their limits so to speak, just like alcohol, some people turn into ****ing morons and some know how to handle a glass or two and keep it safe.
I'm not sure what the disconnect is other than being fed propaganda for years about how bad marijuana is and alcohol being a staple of our every day life that somehow garners greater exceptance than MJ when in reality they both have the same propensity to cause harm to individuals who cannot maintain a reasonable level of responsibility and control.
Things aren't so black and white in real life. Marijuana and alcohol really are not that different, idiots who use either will magnify the idiot inside. That can be said of any drug really.
I have a feeling a lot of people here have little to no experience with marijuana, king of like anti-gun folks telling everyone how gun ownership= scary redneck moron who wants to kill babies; how an AR is a death machine only used to slay the souls of innocents- nothing more could ever be done with the deathdealing weapon of the 21st century!
I have a novel ****ing idea, FREEDOM. Let people be free to do as they wish until they hurt someone or steal another persons stuff. Then come down on them hard and swift with REAL punishment, not just deferred sentences and community service.
NO ONE SHOULD HAVE THEIR RIGHTS TAKEN FROM THEM! Unless currently incarcerated.
The Alcohol Vs. MJ debate reminds me so much of hte AR-15 Vs. Shotgun debate. So much disinformation and hypocrisy...
.NO ONE SHOULD HAVE THEIR RIGHTS TAKEN FROM THEM! Unless currently incarcerated..
Interesting. I have a feeling that if you spent more than 30 seconds thinking that one through you'd realize its as foolish as the belief the weed is worse than alcohol (which you seem very adamantly against).
thopkins22
01-24-14, 10:06
Interesting. I have a feeling that if you spent more than 30 seconds thinking that one through you'd realize its as foolish as the belief the weed is worse than alcohol (which you seem very adamantly against).
Why? If someone is safe enough to be out of prison, they should be considered safe enough to have a full suite of rights. We've already determined that criminals are going to be able to get guns through the black market right?
If we don't trust someone with a firearm, I don't know why we'd trust them with a crossbow or a kitchen knife. To me the idea that the current system is remotely well thought out is preposterous.
Why? If someone is safe enough to be out of prison, they should be considered safe enough to have a full suite of rights. We've already determined that criminals are going to be able to get guns through the black market right?
If we don't trust someone with a firearm, I don't know why we'd trust them with a crossbow or a kitchen knife. To me the idea that the current system is remotely well thought out is preposterous.
Oh really? So you're totally cool with a child molester living next to an elementary school just because they got out of the pen???? I mean after all, living where you want to is a right (right/freedom to travel). How about a parolee? Think its ok for them to have zero limitations on where they can reside or travel or even associate with?? (huge flight risk, and most parolee's cant associate with other on parole or probation..or felons I believe). How about taking someone's D.L. away from them for decades because they have 5 or more DUI's on their record??? They pay taxes, they have a right to travel, and they aren't incarcerated????? Remember, there are more "rights" in this world than just those discussed in the 1st and 2nd amendments (SEE 9th amendment).
Again, a blanket statement like "NO ONE SHOULD HAVE THEIR RIGHTS TAKEN FROM THEM! Unless currently incarcerated.." is foolish.
Also on the weed vs booze issue. I do believe in most if not all states its illegal to carry in a bar or while consuming alcohol (I know it is in my state). Should the same be the case with weed? And also realize, like stated above, if you're honest on the 4473 you wont be able to purchase a firearm if you "are a user, or addicted to, marijuana or any depressant (alcohol is a depressant), stimulant, narcotic drug, or any other controlled substance". So looks like IL doesn't have their head completely up their ass. They just seem to be following the FED's stance.
Interesting. I have a feeling that if you spent more than 30 seconds thinking that one through you'd realize its as foolish as the belief the weed is worse than alcohol (which you seem very adamantly against).
Yep. Only spent 30 seconds on that one- fool that I am...
If people can not be trusted with their basic natural born rights and to be peaceful in society, they should not be released from prison. Period.
If a person cannot be trusted to live next to a school without raping a child, if they cannot be trusted to be able to defend themselves with a legally posessed weapon and not murder people- they do not belong in society. Is that really a complicated concept?
I've thought about it quite a bit actually J-dub. And I believe in what I have said. Rights are ****ing rights and every citizen should be afforded the same right. Period. Unless they cannot live peacfully in society with those rights, in which case they should be removed from society completely.
Freedom isn't ****ing safe, never has been and never will be, there are always inherent risks with freedom. Always will be.
Do you really believe a felon will just obey and not buy a gun illegally if they really wanted one? Do you think that felons have any less of a right to self defense- their lives are worth less than yours is?
So the guy with 5 DUI's who didn't listen the first five times, is now magically supposed to stop drinking/driving because you took his permission slip to drive away this time? :rolleyes:
So the guy who raped a child is magically NOT going to do it again if he lives further away from a school? :rolleyes:
That shit just doesn't make sense or jive with the reality we inhabit...
I never said "Weed is worse than alcohol" I said they are pretty much the same thing, just different drugs people take to escape reality for a while, or partake in as a social lubricant of sorts.
I do not have to say that one is worse than the other, anyone is free to look at the facts/statistics and make that decision on their own. It's pretty obvious which one causes more harm to society historically/currently.
Every citizen should be afforded the same rights unless they have proven they cannot peacefully live in society, at which point they should be removed from society.
Maybe if people were allowed to choose which drugs they imbibed freely and not face prison time taking up room in cells (Unless they comitted a REAL crime like theft or assault, etc); maybe if we didn't waste billions on failed drug wars that WILL NEVER END or even create a dent in drug use- we would have the funds and space in prison to remove the trash from society and keep them out of society...
Crazy thought right?
Oh really? So you're totally cool with a child molester living next to an elementary school just because they got out of the pen???? I mean after all, living where you want to is a right (right/freedom to travel). How about a parolee? Think its ok for them to have zero limitations on where they can reside or travel or even associate with?? (huge flight risk, and most parolee's cant associate with other on parole or probation..or felons I believe). How about taking someone's D.L. away from them for decades because they have 5 or more DUI's on their record??? They pay taxes, they have a right to travel, and they aren't incarcerated????? Remember, there are more "rights" in this world than just those discussed in the 1st and 2nd amendments (SEE 9th amendment).
Again, a blanket statement like "NO ONE SHOULD HAVE THEIR RIGHTS TAKEN FROM THEM! Unless currently incarcerated.." is foolish.
Also on the weed vs booze issue. I do believe in most if not all states its illegal to carry in a bar or while consuming alcohol (I know it is in my state). Should the same be the case with weed? And also realize, like stated above, if you're honest on the 4473 you wont be able to purchase a firearm if you "are a user, or addicted to, marijuana or any depressant (alcohol is a depressant), stimulant, narcotic drug, or any other controlled substance". So looks like IL doesn't have their head completely up their ass. They just seem to be following the FED's stance.
So let me get this straight; you believe that any user of alcohol or ANY OTHER DRUG for that matter- should be stripped of their right to keep and bear firearms and not be allowed to pruchase a firearm?
Also, if you are a USER of alcohol based ont eh verbiage of the 4473 form, you should not be allowed to purchase a firearm? This is what you believe in and find acceptable?
Just want to clairfy your stance here.
So let me get this straight; you believe that any user of alcohol or ANY OTHER DRUG for that matter- should be stripped of their right to keep and bear firearms and not be allowed to pruchase a firearm?
Also, if you are a USER of alcohol based ont eh verbiage of the 4473 form, you should not be allowed to purchase a firearm? This is what you believe in and find acceptable?
Just want to clairfy your stance here.
I simply quoted what is asked on the 4473 form to clarify that IL's stance on weed users isn't pulled out of thin air. Frankly I don't give a flying F***. Just pointing out the facts, I didn't write the question or produce the form for Christ sake. Plus it makes it pretty clear you have to be an UNLAWFUL user....have you ever read the damn form or is this new to you???? I mean since you live in Calirado I assume you have to fill one out every time you look at a firearm....
Your previous post is laughable and full of contradictory nonsense. You champion freedoms, while inferring that if you mess up you should be "removed from society" apparently indefinitely since of course no laws will keep said imprisoned citizens from committing crimes...right? They're just going to break the law anyway so I guess you'd like to keep them imprisoned forever??? Interesting. Irony, hypocrisy, and ignorance all wrapped up in one post. I like it!
I simply quoted what is asked on the 4473 form to clarify that IL's stance on weed users isn't pulled out of thin air. Frankly I don't give a flying F***. Just pointing out the facts, I didn't write the question or produce the form for Christ sake. Plus it makes it pretty clear you have to be an UNLAWFUL user....have you ever read the damn form or is this new to you???? I mean since you live in Calirado I assume you have to fill one out every time you look at a firearm....
Your previous post is laughable and full of contradictory nonsense. You champion freedoms, while inferring that if you mess up you should be "removed from society" apparently indefinitely since of course no laws will keep said imprisoned citizens from committing crimes...right? They're just going to break the law anyway so I guess you'd like to keep them imprisoned forever??? Interesting. Irony, hypocrisy, and ignorance all wrapped up in one post. I like it!
What I am saying is that when someone shows repeatedly that they cannot live in our society without murdering, raping, robbing, assaulting, etc (You know those viloent awful crimes that have no place in a civilized society, not j-walking and anything that may be "illegal"...:rolleyes:) they should be removed as they have shown they cannot live in existence with others wihtout causing SIGNIFICANT damage to others/society in general.
I never said you should be permanently removed from society for anything and everything, on the first offense; is that really what you understood from my post?
I do believe people make mistakes and can reform, but when they show that they cannot or will not reform, well what do you do then, just keep them going in and out of the revolving door like we do for the most part now?
The idea that we should have freedom & rights, is not mutually exclusive from the idea that people should be held accountable for atrocious crimes and if they show they cannot be trusted in society, they should not be in society.
Someone smoking some weed who still wants to defend their home and family with a gun is NOT commiting an atrocious crime that can not be tolerated in a peaceful society. Whilst on the other hand those who continually rape, murder, assualt or rob people fall under that category, and if given a few chances to reform (When applicable) and they have not, they have shown they cannot be trusted in our society.
Is this really all that unreasonable to you?
I've purchased all but one of my firearms legally without a 4473-FYI. I am aware of the questions on the form, just wanted to clarify your stance for the purpose of our discussion.
Heres the thing- an "alcoholic" or "Addict" and thus a "leagally unlawful user" COULD BE constreud as anyone who has 2 or more alcoholic beverages a day. So anyone who drinks 2 or more alcoholic beverages a day could/should lawfully be denied some of their rights?
And anyone who tokes on occassion (For whatever reason) should not be able to defend themselves or their families how they see fit- by the letter of the law right? And that is just fine?
Rights are not rights when we create caveats to remove those rights. They are merely permissions...
Does that clarify things, or is it just more ignorance, irony and hypocrisy from a "fool" all wrapped up to entertain you more?
2) Bolded part of your comment -Umm. Okay so basically the same thing as those who drink alcohol, so what is your point? We should only remove the rights of those who chose MJ as their drug of choice instead of alcohol?
What makes you think I'm any defender of alcohol?
As far as legalizing pot, too many lies are told for me to buy into it. There's too many "studies" being performed by questionable groups and it smacks of the same class of junk science that brings us global warming.
Pot was leglalized in Colorado by the same body of legislators that brought about the mag ban. Legalizing pot for our own good has the same stink as banning high capacity magazine clips, barrel shrouds, bayonet lugs and folding stocks for our own good.
Remember "DRINK RESPONSIBLY". In other words "Don't do anything stupid while doing something that makes you stupid"
What makes you think I'm any defender of alcohol?
As far as legalizing pot, too many lies are told for me to buy into it. There's too many "studies" being performed by questionable groups and it smacks of the same class of junk science that brings us global warming.
Pot was leglalized in Colorado by the same body of legislators that brought about the mag ban. Legalizing pot for our own good has the same stink as banning high capacity magazine clips, barrel shrouds, bayonet lugs and folding stocks for our own good.
Remember "DRINK RESPONSIBLY". In other words "Don't do anything stupid while doing something that makes you stupid"
Cite/link to said studies done by said questionable groups? I'd be interested to read them.
Look behind the claims and see whether or not those conducting the research have an agenda, one way or the other. As easy as pot can be grown, why doesn't some drug company champion it's uses? With the biotech we have, why doesn't a company like Monsanto put a bit of money into marijuana research, enhance it's properties and take over the market? Companies have no problems coming up with profitable drugs and if half the claims of medicinal miracles about pot were true, it would be profitable indeed
Legalizing pot for our own good has the same stink as banning high capacity magazine clips, barrel shrouds, bayonet lugs and folding stocks for our own good.
I don;t think it's being legalized "for our own good"... It's being legalized because "we the people" want it legalized. IOW, like Bloomberg outlawing salt and sodas. He has no right to do that. Leave the Govt out of outr lives. If pot and soda are bad then fine... choose not to smoke or drink them but don't allow the Govt to be involved in the process. ... and speaking of studies... they would have done the first studies to outlaw it in the first place.
Salt
sodas
seat belts
pot
alcohol
30 round mags
auto knives
helmets
life preservers
It's just an endless list the government has put together over the last 60 years that is simply mind boggling. I would be willing to bet that somewhere in these United States that if wake up in the morning, walk across the room and cut a fart, you have broken a law. It has seriously gotten that bad... and they've run out of the piddly stuff they are on a downhill swoop to capture an entire nation.
I for one am happy to see any power taken back from the govt that they stole from us. It is our responsibility to use these rights properly. If we fail and injure another then we have to pay the price. If we injure ourselves... well it is our life.
What makes you think I'm any defender of alcohol?
As far as legalizing pot, too many lies are told for me to buy into it. There's too many "studies" being performed by questionable groups and it smacks of the same class of junk science that brings us global warming.
Pot was leglalized in Colorado by the same body of legislators that brought about the mag ban. Legalizing pot for our own good has the same stink as banning high capacity magazine clips, barrel shrouds, bayonet lugs and folding stocks for our own good.
Remember "DRINK RESPONSIBLY". In other words "Don't do anything stupid while doing something that makes you stupid"
I'm not "defending pot" either I am defending peoples freedom of choice to do to their bodies as they see fit- be it drinking booze or smoking weed, et al; as long as they do so in a responsible fashion in the privacy of their own homes or legal establishments and don't hurt others in the process.
And no you have it wrong with the Mag ban Law/Amendment 64. The citizens of Colorado VOTED on Amendment 64 to be implemented- a majority coted to legalize MJ. The legilsature forced the mag ban on us without a vote or voice in the matter whatsoever. BIG DIFFERENCE.
Studies/statistics can always be used to demonize or glorify anything. I am not intersted much in these studies as I am in peoples freedom to do as they wish as long as they are doing it in a peaceful manner and not hurting others in the process...
With the biotech we have, why doesn't a company like Monsanto put a bit of money into marijuana research, enhance it's properties and take over the market? Companies have no problems coming up with profitable drugs and if half the claims of medicinal miracles about pot were true, it would be profitable indeed
I would expect because not everything people gravitate to necessarily has to come from a factory. Some people simply like to believe in the unexplained. ... and you know most are simply using it because they like it. OR... the S really is going to HTF and the real drugs are going to be non-existent... so big brother is going to drop bails of pot into neighborhoods for 'relief'.
The bottom line is get people like Bloomberg and Obama out of our lives by not letting in control of the things in our lives. What a company might do if it was all legal... who knows... but if it's legal and something can be done with it.... someone will... and it may not be a Monsanto.... it may be someone's next door neighbor with a Kickstarter.
Look behind the claims and see whether or not those conducting the research have an agenda, one way or the other. As easy as pot can be grown, why doesn't some drug company champion it's uses? With the biotech we have, why doesn't a company like Monsanto put a bit of money into marijuana research, enhance it's properties and take over the market? Companies have no problems coming up with profitable drugs and if half the claims of medicinal miracles about pot were true, it would be profitable indeed
That's not what I asked for: re hash of your personal opinion/position on the matter. Most of the actual published studies I have seen on MJ have been negative. So, if you're claiming there's junk science done by questionable groups (which is a very specific claim) then you should be prepared to supply at least some support for it beyond telling me to go look for it. That's logical and fair no?
The fact is, there's simply a lack of studies examining it's benefits or lack there of due to it's legal schedule status and stigma. I personally know someone with cancer going through treatment who has a script for the MJ, and he's told me the MJ has been the only thing that gets his appetite up to eat at all. He'd lost 30lbs+ and his doc recommend the MJ. He was not a user prior to the docs rec to try it. He added some weight back and is now weight stable, which is far better than the direction he was going. For him, quite possibly a life saver.
Look behind the claims and see whether or not those conducting the research have an agenda, one way or the other. As easy as pot can be grown, why doesn't some drug company champion it's uses? With the biotech we have, why doesn't a company like Monsanto put a bit of money into marijuana research, enhance it's properties and take over the market? Companies have no problems coming up with profitable drugs and if half the claims of medicinal miracles about pot were true, it would be profitable indeed
You should do some more resaerch on this. There are quite a few biotech & pharma companies putting tons of $$$ into marijuana research.
It is a fact that MJ helps with siezures and some other conditions giving people with serious illnesses a bit of relief. People who can live a better life from the help of ANY substance should be able to freely choose to do so without big brother stealing their rights away...
thopkins22
01-24-14, 14:33
Look behind the claims and see whether or not those conducting the research have an agenda, one way or the other. As easy as pot can be grown, why doesn't some drug company champion it's uses? With the biotech we have, why doesn't a company like Monsanto put a bit of money into marijuana research, enhance it's properties and take over the market? Companies have no problems coming up with profitable drugs and if half the claims of medicinal miracles about pot were true, it would be profitable indeed
Marinol.... But Marinol comes with a lot of side effects that aren't reported with actual cannabis usage.
More to the point, do you know what it costs to bring the average drug to market with FDA approval? In 2011, the average amount spent on a new drug was $5,800,000,000. That's nearly six BILLION dollars. It's hard to recoup that amount of cash with a drug that patients can simply grow themselves for the cost of potting soil and a seed. http://www.forbes.com/sites/aroy/2012/04/24/how-the-fda-stifles-new-cures-part-i-the-rising-cost-of-clinical-trials/
The beauty of science is that it doesn't matter who pays for the research, nor whether or not they have an agenda. When a study is published and stands for peer review, the data either supports a conclusion or it does not. The data from the studies we've actually seen is overwhelmingly conclusive that cannabis and cannabinoids are not particularly dangerous in the context of drugs. If we're going to take your advice and look at the agendas present, then surely we must also consider that all of the organizations against legalization are also benefitting from the status quo.
Just pointing out the facts, I didn't write the question or produce the form for Christ sake. Plus it makes it pretty clear you have to be an UNLAWFUL user....have you ever read the damn form or is this new to you????
The form makes clear that you have to be an unlawful user OR addicted to the substances listed.
Are you an unlawful user of, or addicted to, marijuana or any depressant, stimulant, narcotic drug, or any other controlled substance?
Per the National Institute of Medicine, 18 million Americans are alcoholics. Are 1/10th of adult Americans prohibited persons? The number of alcoholics is likely higher due to people generally not answering questions like that truthfully even in blind surveys. Many more patients are addicted to opiates and are legally prescribed them. Are they prohibited persons?
Gave up his permit. AZ still issues CCWs, and I accidentally let mine completely lapse. It's nice for buying guns, because you skip the NCIC check.
What happened in AZ is that we got the CCW option years back... at that time the requirements were more thorough. As years went by the CCW requirement shrunk. Then the laws changed to where no permit was required to Conceal. So that's why you have both.
People that live in AZ might occasionally like to leave the state and be able to legally carry concealed....
Actually it's not a waste of resources and I'll assume since you don't live here, you don't understand AZ weapon(s) laws.
1. We do not issue concealed pistol permits or firearms permits. We have concealed weapons permits. There is a difference. This means that you can carry more than just a handgun. You can conceal knives, etc... Also our legislature passed a preemption law a few years back regarding knives. This means a local ordinance cannot be passed restricting them. Knives are not generally categorized as deadly weapons, but rather as tools. That means you can carry knives concealed as well with a permit (but you must obey the same restrictions on where they are allowed/prohibited). In addition we can also have switchblades, etc..
2. You cannot legally carry in a bar or restaurant that serves alcohol without a permit.
3. If you have a permit you are not required to go through the NICS circus. That means pay your money and out the door in minutes.
4. Arizona permits are valid in several states. So that means when you travel you can legally carry instead of being defenseless.
Thanks gentlemen, I completely forgot about reciprocity with other states regarding travel and such. :)
The form makes clear that you have to be an unlawful user OR addicted to the substances listed.
FFL -- it's still Federally illegal right? State legal... Federal illegal ... Federal forms.... Or is it Federally legal now too? If it's that easy to take back our rights back then I'm thinking the States need to do a house to house 'get your ass out and vote' initiative and tell the Feds to screw themselves. Then people can go live in the State that suits their personality and life style.
thopkins22
01-24-14, 18:21
FFL -- it's still Federally illegal right? State legal... Federal illegal ... Federal forms.... Or is it Federally legal now too? If it's that easy to take back our rights back then I'm thinking the States need to do a house to house 'get your ass out and vote' initiative and tell the Feds to screw themselves. Then people can go live in the State that suits their personality and life style.
We don't disagree...perhaps I cut the quote I was responding to too short. He'd responded to a post that asked if he felt the same way about alcoholics since alcohol is a depressant...and then responded that it said specifically "unlawful."
I'd certainly like to see a return to states rights and allow for experimentation and differences amongst the states...we'll get there as soon as the left realizes that businesses and guns aren't scary and the right realizes that pot and gay people won't turn us into communists.
I do believe in most if not all states its illegal to carry in a bar or while consuming alcohol (I know it is in my state).
In Nevada you can carry legally in a bar and can have up to a .10 BAC while legally carrying.
ETA - And we don't have any issues pertaining to it either.
Every state is different, and there are different variations of the law. In some states you cannot consume and carry, in some states you cannot enter a bar or place that serves alcohol at all. And, I can almost guarantee that if you are carrying concealed and under the influence of marijuana and you are caught, you are going to be charged.
Oh really? So you're totally cool with a child molester living next to an elementary school just because they got out of the pen???? I mean after all, living where you want to is a right (right/freedom to travel). How about a parolee? Think its ok for them to have zero limitations on where they can reside or travel or even associate with?? (huge flight risk, and most parolee's cant associate with other on parole or probation..or felons I believe). How about taking someone's D.L. away from them for decades because they have 5 or more DUI's on their record??? They pay taxes, they have a right to travel, and they aren't incarcerated????? Remember, there are more "rights" in this world than just those discussed in the 1st and 2nd amendments (SEE 9th amendment).
Again, a blanket statement like "NO ONE SHOULD HAVE THEIR RIGHTS TAKEN FROM THEM! Unless currently incarcerated.." is foolish.
Also on the weed vs booze issue. I do believe in most if not all states its illegal to carry in a bar or while consuming alcohol (I know it is in my state). Should the same be the case with weed? And also realize, like stated above, if you're honest on the 4473 you wont be able to purchase a firearm if you "are a user, or addicted to, marijuana or any depressant (alcohol is a depressant), stimulant, narcotic drug, or any other controlled substance". So looks like IL doesn't have their head completely up their ass. They just seem to be following the FED's stance.
exkc135driver
01-25-14, 15:41
What I am saying is that when someone shows repeatedly that they cannot live in our society without murdering, raping, robbing, assaulting, etc (You know those viloent awful crimes that have no place in a civilized society, not j-walking and anything that may be "illegal"...:rolleyes:) they should be removed as they have shown they cannot live in existence with others wihtout causing SIGNIFICANT damage to others/society in general.
Many states have enacted three-strikes-and-you're-out laws for this very reason.
I am not getting into the booze vs. bongs debate, but just want to make two comments:
I'm not sure what the disconnect is other than being fed propaganda for years about how bad marijuana is and alcohol being a staple of our every day life that somehow garners greater exceptance than MJ when in reality they both have the same propensity to cause harm to individuals who cannot maintain a reasonable level of responsibility and control.
I think it's this: alcohol is socially acceptable and marijuana isn't. If your company has a Christmas party fueled by alcohol, no problem. If a member of Congress has a drink or three at home or even in his office in D.C., who cares? But substitute marijuana for the alcohol and the perception immediately changes.
I'd certainly like to see a return to states rights and allow for experimentation and differences amongst the states...we'll get there as soon as the left realizes that businesses and guns aren't scary and the right realizes that pot and gay people won't turn us into communists.
With regard to the statement in bold face: those will happen at approximately the same time that hell freezes over ...
Yup. I don't use the stuff, don't recommend the stuff, but what makes a person using it - for medically approved use no less - some how inherently at risk of violence? Pot is not known for producing violent behavior. Now booze - which you can buy by the gallon container - is another matter...This is simply another example of a state attempting to find ways to chip away at people's 2A Rights and it's BS. Yup I've been a cop for going on 14 years and definately prefer dealing with someone who has been smoking pot than someone who has been drinking whisky. Although I have encountered some folks that are under the influence of laced pot that can be a handfull.
Me neither. But it's the foot in the door thing. I don't smoke cigarettes either but I was against the banning of mocking them bars etc. the private sector will always take care of problems better. A smoker free bar for example would have been a gold mine.
I had to back away from the thread for a bit because I realized I was getting wound a bit tight. Life has been a bit stressful, no reason for me to take it out on anyone here.
Lately, I've been hit with quite a bit of pro-pot propaganda from folks I know and a lot of it was claiming miracle cures for a pile of ailments, none of which makes any sense. I know a couple of folks who got their medical marijuana cards and the attitude is "we pulled a fast one" not "it's helping me medically".
Will, one of my flaws is that I've picked up a lot of knowledge in my life without remembering the source. It kinda becomes part of my gut. Anyway, from what I've learned about pot and my life experiences, my gut tells me to be very wary of legalizing pot under these circumstances and very wary of where medical marijuana cards are taking us, just like it tells me not to trust policies that creates or supports dependancy. It may not be enough to convince anyone, but that's ok- I get why. But I'm sticking with my gut on this one
I had to back away from the thread for a bit because I realized I was getting wound a bit tight. Life has been a bit stressful, no reason for me to take it out on anyone here.
Will, one of my flaws is that I've picked up a lot of knowledge in my life without remembering the source. It kinda becomes part of my gut. Anyway, from what I've learned about pot and my life experiences, my gut tells me to be very wary of legalizing pot under these circumstances and very wary of where medical marijuana cards are taking us, just like it tells me not to trust policies that creates or supports dependancy. It may not be enough to convince anyone, but that's ok- I get why. But I'm sticking with my gut on this one
That's how I feel about the whole "fine, tax me to death over it, call it medical, whatever, just let me smoke a little pot without going to jail" situation. We all know what the truth is. 90% of the people would like to just be able to get high without going to jail. Very much like alcohol. The side issue is, thc may actually offer some easily acquired pain relief... fine.... but why take something this big and shroud it in this giant cloak of "Medical Marijuana". Let's just call a spade a spade and say, ok, people want to get high and the effects are not that bad, especially when we are an alcoholic society. So I say just quit BSing each other and legalize it. Let people grow it in the their garden. I don't have any problem with it being legal but I really don't like the way everyone is going about it. It looks like a system is being set up that might become more corrupt than the black market that has existed since it was made illegal.
Came here from a closed thread. Our government doesnt care for our dignity at all.
We get treated like 15 year olds. If someone is in pain and weed helps them live life while retaining dignity, let them have at it.
Our government doesnt care for our dignity at all.
We get treated like 15 year olds. If someone is in pain and weed helps them live life while retaining dignity, let them have at it.
I could not agree more.
On one hand I think potheads and other drug users probably shouldn't own guns.
But if it is LEGALLY prescribed, I don't see how that should cause the loss of your civil rights. Are they also going to prevent them from voting? Driving? Working in certain occupations?
On one hand I think potheads and other drug users probably shouldn't own guns.
Like those who drink alcohol or smoke cigarettes?
Most people who smoke marijuana are not "pot heads" in the stereotypical sense that is portrayed in movies & TV. Doctors, lawyers, business executives... All responsible, productive members of society, who choose to partake responsibly, for their own personal reasons.
Some for pain, insomnia, recovering alcoholics, and the list goes on. Some, for personal pleasure. Gasp!
Averageman
09-30-16, 17:58
Came here from a closed thread. Our government doesnt care for our dignity at all.
We get treated like 15 year olds. If someone is in pain and weed helps them live life while retaining dignity, let them have at it.
My little Sister was 17 when she found out she was full of cancer. My Mom tried every resource to help her. In the end She couldn't eat, no appetite and he throat was sore and burned.
Had someone stepped in an given her some marijuana to build an appetite, a bit of light and help, who knows.
You know, always obeying the law is not the right or just answer, if marijuana can ease pain or give someone a bit of an edge while they suffer, what does it hurt?
Like those who drink alcohol or smoke cigarettes?
Most people who smoke marijuana are not "pot heads" in the stereotypical sense that is portrayed in movies & TV. Doctors, lawyers, business executives... All responsible, productive members of society, who choose to partake responsibly, for their own personal reasons.
Some for pain, insomnia, recovering alcoholics, and the list goes on. Some, for personal pleasure. Gasp!
The vast majority I know aren't very responsible. If they were responsible, I really wouldn't care what they did. It's a lot like tards driving down the street texting, we shouldn't have to have a law, but because of the tards we will probably get one.
The vast majority I know aren't very responsible. If they were responsible, I really wouldn't care what they did. It's a lot like tards driving down the street texting, we shouldn't have to have a law, but because of the tards we will probably get one.
I have a half dozen personal friends who do smoke pot. I was describing them earlier. They are all great parents, business people, and are all very active in our community.
I know there's plenty of shitheads who smoke weed. But, there are many people who use it medicinally, or for pleasure, and are responsible people as well. No different than booze.
Have a great night.
I dunno. I've never personally tried marijuana but have never had to fight someone high on weed. Alcohol is another issue. Put scores of drunks belly down I have.
The main thing is that it is more nanny state BS. Modern drig laws, much like gun laws, are very much steeped in Jim Crow.
Making Marijuana illegal was solely to put blacks in jail. It also derives from people not paying those precious taxes dollars because as the politicians are quick to point out "Americans are selfish with their money".
There are plenty of crazy people who are not on any drug at all who shouldnt have guns nor sharp objects.
Not a slight on Steyr as I think he's a groovy guy but at the end of the day there are a bunch of people who probably need a toke and to get laid.
If that happened there likely wouldn't be so much stupid, pointless and random violence.
I have a half dozen personal friends who do smoke pot. I was describing them earlier. They are all great parents, business people, and are all very active in our community.
I know there's plenty of shitheads who smoke weed. But, there are many people who use it medicinally, or for pleasure, and are responsible people as well. No different than booze.
Have a great night.
I'm not advocating alcohol either. I knew plenty people who wrecked their lives and everyone close to them with nothing more than beer. Some people can drink a beer and stop, some people can't until they or a bunch of other people are dead. I know a bunch of soccer moms who destroyed their family with nothing more than wine. Some people can drink a glass with dinner, some people can't.
Like I said earlier, if it's something with a prescription for pain management or other actual medical need, then it shouldn't be any more or less than someone with a prescription for valium. And I'm certain there are people in the world who can responsibly use marijuana without turning into a complete jackass. For those people, go with god...you have my blessing.
Maybe it's just south florida, but the dipshit contingent down here is huge. Legions of tards who wreck their lives and all they come into contact with with nothing more than beer, weed or whatever. Not saying it's as bad as heroin, but it wouldn't be the first time somebody had a kid running around the parking lot because mom and dad were too high on the couch to notice.
My primary objection to legality isn't some fantasy where people won't be able to get access to weed, I just don't want to deal with it in public second hand. People are inconsiderate enough with cigarettes and vapes.
Also not sure if weed makes you stupid or if it's just a case of stupid people are attracted to weed, but there seems to be some kind of correlation there.
I dunno. I've never personally tried marijuana but have never had to fight someone high on weed. Alcohol is another issue. Put scores of drunks belly down I have.
The main thing is that it is more nanny state BS. Modern drig laws, much like gun laws, are very much steeped in Jim Crow.
Making Marijuana illegal was solely to put blacks in jail. It also derives from people not paying those precious taxes dollars because as the politicians are quick to point out "Americans are selfish with their money".
There are plenty of crazy people who are not on any drug at all who shouldnt have guns nor sharp objects.
Not a slight on Steyr as I think he's a groovy guy but at the end of the day there are a bunch of people who probably need a toke and to get laid.
If that happened there likely wouldn't be so much stupid, pointless and random violence.
Not sure what it's like in your zip code, but down here bangers probably inhale more weed than oxygen and it doesn't seem to chill them out in the slightest. If marijuana actually inhibited violent tendencies I'd advocate it for everyone in South Chicago.
Not sure what it's like in your zip code, but down here bangers probably inhale more weed than oxygen and it doesn't seem to chill them out in the slightest. If marijuana actually inhibited violent tendencies I'd advocate it for everyone in South Chicago.
Perhaps I should clarify. Weed alone, no problems.
Weed and liquor
Weed and cocaine/crack
Weed and Special K
Different scenario. Polydrugging subjects is a different paradigm.
But a bunch of guys eating funyuns and playing Floyd at home don't register with me.
I think bar none the worst is Meth.
You may be colored by your environment and thus, I could not blame you.
A lot of people will do whatever for their fix.
But weed alone isn't the worst nor necessarily a gateway. Liquor is more a gateway because the comedown on liquor is so destructive and painful. It almost inspires a pursuit to something more euphoric
Plus people do develop tolerances. I don't agree with drug use but would rather it be a medical issue than criminal.
And some people are just bums
Yeah, pot may have beneficial aspects but it doesn't offset Meth and Alcohol. Now that really would be a miracle drug.
Yeah, pot may have beneficial aspects but it doesn't offset Meth and Alcohol. Now that really would be a miracle drug.
A morbid part of me wishes they'd put Zoloft and RU486 in the drinking water in some places. Possibly fat black church ladies with pamphlets posted up near heavy foot traffic areas advising people that they need Jesus.
I dunno. Bah
Perhaps I should clarify. Weed alone, no problems.
I never had a problem with the funyun crowd for the most part. But even if we talk about just weed, I know a lot of people who are jacked up problems. From the guys with WWF fantasies who smoke bongs for breakfast to the wannabe bangers who start shit all the time but never did anything harder than weed.
Maybe they were all going to be a problem regardless, but weed sure as shit ain't making them cool. Wish it did.
I think all weed does is inhibit your decision making. If you are mostly a decent person that might translate to buying and eating two dozen twinkies. If you are the violent criminal sort...well that might translate into lots of bad shit.
Again, if I don't have to deal with your baked ass and I don't have you stinking up my side of the property line, I could honestly not care what you do.
Maybe they were all going to be a problem regardless, but weed sure as shit ain't making them cool. Wish it did.
No one says it makes you cool. They say it doesn't make you bat shit crazy. If, however, you are already bat shit crazy..... well then you will simply be a stoned bat shit crazy guy.
IOW,,, in and of itself... it doesn't make you crazy. Unlike being born a meth, alcohol baby or being a crack head or angry alcoholic.
It helps some people with pain, nausea, tension, anxiety.... but unlike other things even if it just flat out did nothing, it doesn't turn people into adversarial situations.
Think of it as an illegal turkey dinner and football game on Thanksgiving. If crazy uncle Joe has a half pint in his pocket, maybe it will chill him out, maybe it wont. But most everyone else are going to kick the foot rest up on the Laztyboy recliner and feel no pain, complain about their guy that missed a pass and fall asleep. ...which is when Crazy Joe sneeks back for a shot of Sherry.
No one says it makes you cool. They say it doesn't make you bat shit crazy. If, however, you are already bat shit crazy..... well then you will simply be a stoned bat shit crazy guy.
IOW,,, in and of itself... it doesn't make you crazy. Unlike being born a meth, alcohol baby or being a crack head or angry alcoholic.
It helps some people with pain, nausea, tension, anxiety.... but unlike other things even if it just flat out did nothing, it doesn't turn people into adversarial situations.
Think of it as an illegal turkey dinner and football game on Thanksgiving. If crazy uncle Joe has a half pint in his pocket, maybe it will chill him out, maybe it wont. But most everyone else are going to kick the foot rest up on the Laztyboy recliner and feel no pain, complain about their guy that missed a pass and fall asleep. ...which is when Crazy Joe sneeks back for a shot of Sherry.
They should give it out with lunch in prisons. Violence would drop by 50% at least is my guess.
sevenhelmet
10-01-16, 09:12
They should give it out with lunch in prisons. Violence would drop by 50% at least is my guess.
Can you imagine the backlash? The threads on this forum alone would be on fire.
Hey guys, I have something that calms me down, helps me focus, relieves stress, and doesn't incite me to violence- often quite the opposite. For a vast majority (>99%) of people it causes no problems their entire life. A few people have just given it a bad name due to their terrible judgment or mixing it with other vices. Can you guess what it is?
That's right. It's my firearms.
Yup. I don't use the stuff, don't recommend the stuff, but what makes a person using it - for medically approved use no less - some how inherently at risk of violence? Pot is not known for producing violent behavior. Now booze - which you can buy by the gallon container - is another matter...This is simply another example of a state attempting to find ways to chip away at people's 2A Rights and it's BS.
It's the law. Don't like it let's change it. I tend to agree with it. The medical pot thing is not completely accepted. It doesn't bother me and I'm sure things will become more acceptable as time goes on. It's a violation of federal law. When you fill out the paperwork to buy a gun you're making several statements. One is you're not using drugs illegally. It may be legal in the state. It it's not legal under federal law.
If I were dying of cancer I wouldn't give a shit. I'd smoke my pot and keep my Guns. The whole annual renewal of the license is what gets me. I think medical marijuana is just part of the ploy towards legalizing it. It was medical then Decriminalizeing it here in VT. Many of those pushing to legalize pot are pushing to criminalize Guns. It's pretty ironic.
They should give it out with lunch in prisons. Violence would drop by 50% at least is my guess.
It would be just another commodity that people would barter and kill over.
sevenhelmet
10-01-16, 15:20
It would be just another commodity that people would barter and kill over.
By some accounts, it already is.
sevenhelmet
10-01-16, 15:24
Many of those pushing to legalize pot are pushing to criminalize Guns. It's pretty ironic.
Exactly the point I was trying to make above. If pot-heads want their pot, fine by me. Just don't smoke around me or my family, and we'll be fine. I like to live my life, have a positive impact on my family and friends, and be left alone by people who I never see anyway. But the pot-heads should extend me the same courtesy by leaving my guns alone.
If I was dying of cancer, I'd probably start skydiving or something. Danger is the spice of life that is already too short- I don't need to sit around being high all the time.
It's the law. Don't like it let's change it...
The law is bullshit. Otherwise, we wouldn't have had to have the 18th Amendment, to legalize the prohibition of alcohol. At least back then people were intelligent enough, and cared enough about the Constitution, and freedom, to insist on amending the Constitution to violate people's rights.
The vast majority of gun guys want the freedom to have an SBR, sans $200 tax and the other BS, a suppressor, constitutional carry, etc. I think it's hypocritical that most people get on their soapbox and yell "freedom!" only when it's something they're passionate about, and not for real freedom across the board, for everyone.*
*Not directed at you, just generally speaking.
The law is bullshit. Otherwise, we wouldn't have had to have the 18th Amendment, to legalize the prohibition of alcohol. At least back then people were intelligent enough, and cared enough about the Constitution, and freedom, to insist on amending the Constitution to violate people's rights.
The vast majority of gun guys want the freedom to have an SBR, sans $200 tax and the other BS, a suppressor, constitutional carry, etc. I think it's hypocritical that most people get on their soapbox and yell "freedom!" only when it's something they're passionate about, and not for real freedom across the board, for everyone.*
*Not directed at you, just generally speaking.
For all intents and purposes weed is legal. How many states have "personal weight" exemptions? When was the last time you saw somebody get arrested, let alone prosecuted, for possession?
It is way different from SBRs, you get caught with an unregistered SBR and NOBODY looks the other way. Cops catch you driving with weed and you have a 50/50 of being on your merry way so long as you aren't doing anything else or being a jackass. Walking around smoking weed, I don't think I've ever seen anyone actually get arrested for that. You have to be engaged in some other form of criminal activity or be responding to a called in complaint and even then you have something like a 50/50 chance of being kicked loose.
So the reality is, if you smoke at home and don't mess with anybody, it's about as risky as drinking a beer at home when you are 20 years old and technically not legal. Spare me the freedom crap, there are no federal agencies kicking in doors because somebody has weed.
As a thought experiment, if you call the local PD to complain about adults smoking weed in their driveway do you really think anyone is going to actually dispatch that call? But as we've seen more than once, call in your neighbor as "man with a gun" and you might actually get a SWAT response.
sevenhelmet
10-01-16, 19:53
Yup. Sucks to be a gun owner in 2016.
You know what?
Smoke weed, ineligible for office.
A harmless guy cant toke up in his own home without getting gun rights taken away because it is dangerous?
Well, I don't feel comfortable with all the cokefiends (Bush, Clinton, Obunghole) being able to control, command, and have access to Navy SEALs or nukes.
There should be a law.
You know what?
Smoke weed, ineligible for office.
A harmless guy cant toke up in his own home without getting gun rights taken away because it is dangerous?
Well, I don't feel comfortable with all the cokefiends (Bush, Clinton, Obunghole) being able to control, command, and have access to Navy SEALs or nukes.
There should be a law.
Clinton smoked LOTS of weed and got two terms. But I agree that any history of illegal substance abuse should preclude ANYONE from being President. Additionally, there are a lot of gun owners who smoke weed, they just don't have a prescription.
I guarantee if the police pulled over a guy walking down the street and his CCW pops up when you run his DL, NOTHING is going to happen to his carry permit or his gun rights.
Clinton smoked LOTS of weed and got two terms. But I agree that any history of illegal substance abuse should preclude ANYONE from being President. Additionally, there are a lot of gun owners who smoke weed, they just don't have a prescription.
I guarantee if the police pulled over a guy walking down the street and his CCW pops up when you run his DL, NOTHING is going to happen to his carry permit or his gun rights.
I dont understand. Do you mean legal or illegal CCW?
Lots of guys, in the South though that is decreasing here lately, give working joes a pass on guns.
CWL expired? Hey bud, it's outta date. Get it renewed.
Older person carrying unlicensed? Ma'am, I really understand ('I understand' usually is copese for "I dont care, shut up"), but a license would prevent some rookie from giving you a hard time.
The guys who really freak over guns are either Yankee transplants, brainwashed rookies, or guys on a god-trip.
Which is why I wish GA would just suck up the revenue loss and go straight Constitutional carry. Alabama, of all places, seems more uppity on undocumented gun carriers than GA.
My deal is I'm sick of this "zero tolerance" BS. If known cokefiends can be President then WTF do we really care about some dude smoking up?
Again, personally, I have no desire to mess with weed. It isn't for me. The smell makes me gag, never tried it, and I presume to be allergic to it because any time I hace smelt it on duty it literally makes me wretch.
That said, I would rather people get some BC bud, watch Cartoons, eat munchies, and chill than go drunk driving or fighting.
Again, fought many dudes drunk or on meth. Not fun. Especially when they bleed or spit on you. I'm no prude (not really a whoredog either) but getting blood tests because dirtbags is depressing.
I dont really drink. Gotten roped into it by mostly women (NEVER drink with an Eastern European woman, EVAR!). It tastes bad, the buzz is weird, I end up oversharing, I have to pee like an old person, I wake up dry mouth and feeling bad. Not fun. Maybe I did it wrong.
That said, if people dont harm anyone, have at it. I'm just sick of this hypocritical, "guilty until proven innocent" BS that has been pervading the American Society.
Life is dangerous. We all are going to die.
We all have to figure it out for ourselves. I knew guys whose shit never stank and they are in prison and ended up being not worth a damn. And I know guys everyone said was a total F up and wasn't ever going to be shit and they have good, honest productive lives.
When I was young, I was an eager beaver thinking I was saving the world. Now I actually think that if everybody could get high, laid, and own a beltfed then there would be world peace.
Seriously, if you could get stoned and get a piece without worrying about jail time or fines then nobody would be pissed. If hoods knew they might be busting in on a guy who has a 240 on the door they might lay off the crime.
I live in 2016. The future. We get nostalgic for our childhoods, but really, now is a great time to be alive. Medicine has progressed, we have nicer guns, etc.
If we got rid of "poltical correctness", communists, racial BS, and got government outta the way, we would have it made.
Like I was out a while back with this Imani looking high yellow bird. She was wearing a low cut, short skirt, expensive shoes and we were eating out. I dont like dressing up and was wearing some kinda killer t shirt, cargo pants and was wearing my rebel flag cap.
Then the radio plays Gimme Shelter, a 60s song and I was like "ya know 50 or 60 years ago, we wouldnt be able to eat out like this and have our interpersonal congress later"
She rolled her eyes and said "here we go"
So I rambled on about society, 'the Man', Democrats, and how philistines are holding us all back with their rituals and hangups.
She may be a bit young to capisce it (21) but it is true.
We got everything. Why do we gotta be miserable?
There are days when I seek to live off love and sunshine.
I know I know...
rant off.
I dont understand. Do you mean legal or illegal CCW?
I meant valid CCW, not necessarily armed at the time, but smoking weed.
Only problem with that idea is the shitload of collateral damage they will cause to people and property before they finally ****ing die.
Personally I think there should be maximum security "clinics" where you can sign in, use all the drugs you want but can't leave until you are completely sober and stable. I'd even consider tax payer subsidized drugs so they can do all they want for free and be 100% OFF the street and away from the public.
That's an interesting concept.
I personally don't believe that even alcohol makes a person any more violent then they are already inclined to be. Having been around stoners, I can't see any of them purposefully shooting anyone.
However; make pot "cool" (I'm half convinced that people only smoke pot because it's illegal and thus somehow cool), then if you want to use it, you gotta give up your guns. I wonder what else will be offered in the future for disarming.
Nicotine? Really? Then next you would have caffeine, then before you know it you'd have to be a straight edger to own a weapon.
Yeah instant ass hole just add alcohol. It brings the real person to the surface.
If marijuana was really being legalized for medical purposes, why don't they just make it part of the pharmaceutical system? The proponents of medical marijuana are making pot out to be some kind of miracle drug. Their claims remind me of the snakeoil salesman selling their miracle elixirs guaranteed to cure everything from the pox to menopause, never mind most "elixirs" were made of laudanum, rubbing alcohol and kerosene.
Don't forget, it was the same crew that legalized pot in Colorado that banned "high capacity" magazines
I agree on both counts. It's frustrating.
That's not what I asked for: re hash of your personal opinion/position on the matter. Most of the actual published studies I have seen on MJ have been negative. So, if you're claiming there's junk science done by questionable groups (which is a very specific claim) then you should be prepared to supply at least some support for it beyond telling me to go look for it. That's logical and fair no?
The fact is, there's simply a lack of studies examining it's benefits or lack there of due to it's legal schedule status and stigma. I personally know someone with cancer going through treatment who has a script for the MJ, and he's told me the MJ has been the only thing that gets his appetite up to eat at all. He'd lost 30lbs+ and his doc recommend the MJ. He was not a user prior to the docs rec to try it. He added some weight back and is now weight stable, which is far better than the direction he was going. For him, quite possibly a life saver.
As a Fluffy Guy I find that difficult to comprehend but I know it works for people. This should be a decision between a person and their doctor. The gubment should stay out of it.
If I was dying of cancer, I'd probably start skydiving or something. Danger is the spice of life that is already too short- I don't need to sit around being high all the time. I've had Hairy Cell Leukemia twice. It sucks and pissed me off. It was gone for six years when it came back the second time. I asked the doc if it would come back again. He said yes. It puts life in perspective. I don't think about it all the time but it's distracting.
The law is bullshit. Otherwise, we wouldn't have had to have the 18th Amendment, to legalize the prohibition of alcohol. At least back then people were intelligent enough, and cared enough about the Constitution, and freedom, to insist on amending the Constitution to violate people's rights.
The vast majority of gun guys want the freedom to have an SBR, sans $200 tax and the other BS, a suppressor, constitutional carry, etc. I think it's hypocritical that most people get on their soapbox and yell "freedom!" only when it's something they're passionate about, and not for real freedom across the board, for everyone.*
*Not directed at you, just generally speaking.
No worries Irish. I agree. It pisses me off when one freedom is good for one group of people but no another. The whole NFA topic irritates me too. Once we've been issued a tax stamp we should be fast tracked at least. The length of time we wait is nuts!
Yeah instant ass hole just add alcohol. It brings the real person to the surface.
Not a lot of people understand this. It strips away the veneer that society makes folks wear.
You do not lose rights by getting sick and taking medication.
If on the other hand, you are one of the millions of medical pot users, without a true illness, you reap what you sew.
Those are the laws we live under today. Don't like them? Change them.
Ignore them and you are no better than those BLM douche bags.
Those are the laws we live under today. Don't like them? Change them.
Any chance at all we see a change at the Fed level?? This is all about $$$$ & Colorado has surpassed alcohol sales tax revenue with dope...this blows my mind to happen in such a short time frame, but I see more & more states chasing the money. Can't help but think the Fed's at some point will want in on it.
You do not lose rights by getting sick and taking medication.
If on the other hand, you are one of the millions of medical pot users, without a true illness, you reap what you sew.
Those are the laws we live under today. Don't like them? Change them.
Ignore them and you are no better than those BLM douche bags.
Even if we got half the US demanding and voting NFA repeal; it wouldn't happen.
Nation of laws sounds great until you realize who is making them and enforcing them.
If I snuck off into the middle of nowhere and tore a tag off my mattress the goon squad would charge in like it was Normandy, put a shotgun in my head, put me in a Kangaroo court, and I'd end up like Brooks.
Hillary meanwhile gets people killed, lies, perjures, and so on and nothing happens
So.....yeah. If we are going to be a nation of law, order, checks and balances that would be great. One man, one vote.
But then there's reality. All you are is a name, number, and tax source. No American government is going to give back any of the rights it takes away.
The First KKKlinton AWB sunset was an unparalleled fluke.
tl;dr Legalize everything
You do not lose rights by getting sick and taking medication.
If on the other hand, you are one of the millions of medical pot users, without a true illness, you reap what you sew.
Those are the laws we live under today. Don't like them? Change them.
Ignore them and you are no better than those BLM douche bags.
Fwiw there is a difference between something being lawful and also just.
Cant embed this video, but how do these guys remain employed in Colorado while openly smoking pot?
https://www.facebook.com/ajplusenglish/videos/806802519461257/
The Founding Fathers did drugs and alcohol and they wouldn't allow anyone to infringe on their right to bear arms.
I believe Ben Franklin was one of the few founders who didn't imbibe to get intoxicated and looked upon such as a vice, although he did partake in beer and wine, he consumed very little.
The others all consumed alcohol, some to the point it would be considered alcoholism by modern day standards and most of them imbibed cocaine, laudanum and opium.
There is debate on wether or not Hemp was used as an intoxicant by any of the founders or not, but many of them grew the crop. The type of hemp they grew would have likely been low in THC content- it would likely not be very intoxicating even if they were smoking it.
I'm all for people having their rights. Not infringing on them for _ or _ reason. I like real freedom, not "we can restrict the shit out of it faux freedom".
Now if folks imbibe too much and do something stupid, by all means hold them accountable. But merely using MJ or EtOH should not bar one from retaining their rights.
The folks that get crazy on alcohol and drugs are typically ones that are already stupid/crazy and the alcohol and drugs just intensify their stupid/crazy.
I just can't and won't ever get behind taking peoples rights away. They should be "Rights" or we should just call them by the appropriate name- "permissions granted or denied by the state" and move on.
Watering down rights with licenses, fees, training, qualifiers, dis-qualifiers, etc is bullshit.
I wish we could just get the **** out of peoples personal lives, stop trying to deny them their rights and allow them to live free. Once they do something stupid or criminal, hold them accountable and make stupid/crazy hurt.
Hear, hear!
Tom Jefferson screwed black chicks, got day laid like a mofo, drank, cussed, smoked up, openly called for armed revolt every five years, and was a Framer to be revered.
WTF hsppened here?
The Founding Fathers did drugs and alcohol and they wouldn't allow anyone to infringe on their right to bear arms.
I believe Ben Franklin was one of the few founders who didn't imbibe to get intoxicated and looked upon such as a vice, although he did partake in beer and wine, he consumed very little.
The others all consumed alcohol, some to the point it would be considered alcoholism by modern day standards and most of them imbibed cocaine, laudanum and opium.
Although the stimulant and hunger-suppressant properties of coca had been known for many centuries, the isolation of the cocaine alkaloid was not achieved until 1855.
Although the stimulant and hunger-suppressant properties of coca had been known for many centuries, the isolation of the cocaine alkaloid was not achieved until 1855.
My error. They imbibed coca products and "medicines" with Coca in them- not Cocaine.
Freedom isn't very popular.
Freedom isn't very popular.
Quite sadly, it isn't. I find this to be more and more truthful each day I'm alive on this planet. It's depressing.
I saw a bumper sticker once that I thought was pretty cool. It said: "I just want gay people to be able to get married and protect their pot plants with AR-15's without the federal government having any say in the matter" or something like that.
Wish more people had that mind set.
You got the Christian Taliban, the Muslim Taliban, the Granola Group, and the Limo Liberals who all dont want you:
-Getting laid
-Getting high
-Being heavily armed
-Enjoying Life
Because of white guilt, wanting to be in charge of people, not being able to manage their own shitty lives so they gotta manage yours.
It's bullshit.
Freedom isn't very popular.
Ya know what, I have like almost a zero opinion. If you can smoke your shit without me having to deal with second hand smoke or your dumbassery then smoke all you want.
But right now it's the last thing I care about. Again, nobody is enforcing this shit unless you have actual bales of the shit. When all of the "actual freedom" issues get sorted out, then I'll be thrilled to talk about legal weed in every state and how we can make that a reality without forcing everyone else to deal with it.
Right now there are so many people smoking weed without incident, I just can't worry about it right now. If they were rounding up potheads and throwing them in gulags that would be different, they aren't. To the contrary Obama just recently released a bunch of actual crack, meth, pill dealers who were doing real time.
My error. They imbibed coca products and "medicines" with Coca in them- not Cocaine.
People been chewing on that leaf for centuries. It doesn't exactly net the same results as cocaine. But to get to the meat of your argument I do understand that most regulation is an early 20th century thing like most of our stupid laws.
Ya know what, I have like almost a zero opinion. If you can smoke your shit without me having to deal with second hand smoke or your dumbassery then smoke all you want.
But right now it's the last thing I care about. Again, nobody is enforcing this shit unless you have actual bales of the shit. When all of the "actual freedom" issues get sorted out, then I'll be thrilled to talk about legal weed in every state and how we can make that a reality without forcing everyone else to deal with it.
Right now there are so many people smoking weed without incident, I just can't worry about it right now. If they were rounding up potheads and throwing them in gulags that would be different, they aren't. To the contrary Obama just recently released a bunch of actual crack, meth, pill dealers who were doing real time.
It's not something I put before the 2nd Amendment and my core principles but it does have a major impact on our society as a whole. There is a shitload of people who get popped for marijuana and end up in the clink. I don't know for what exactly, but it's a lot... This link states (http://www.drugpolicy.org/drug-war-statistics): Number of arrests in 2014 in the U.S. for marijuana law violations: 700,993 Number of these arrests that were for possession only: 619,809 (88 percent)
Mostly this thread got bumped and I figured I'd throw in my 2 cents, again. :) I think I'll unsub from this thread and it's not due to anything negative or anyone. Mostly I think that everyone's pretty set in their position and we're probably just running around in circles. Be well.
I had to leave a very lucrative career in manufacturing due to the nonsense that started in Mexico about 6 years ago mas/menos...loved working across the border & jumping around from plant to plant. I made electronic components for fortune 500 companies.
Hell, 20 years ago I was down in San Fernando every weekend shooting Whitewing...it's now a ghost town & the area where the Zeta's whacked those 70 Central Americans a few years back if you recall. Back then the same movement of goods crap was still going on, we saw it but they left us and their own alone. They have sadly lost their country.
I'm not sure where I'm even going other than to say my thinking has changed on the whole freedom comment posted by Irish...It's hard to have a productive conversation with someone against any sort of legalization. I just get to point where I tell them they win. We are going to continue to what hasn't worked, you have a case study with prohibition but don't want to consider anything other than the tail wagging the dog. Frustrating when it has affected your entire world, have friends dodging bullets while protecting the border, etc.
Sorry for the rant.
There is a shitload of people who get popped for marijuana and end up in the clink.
That's just not true. If they were rioting while smoking weed then yeah. Robbing a convenience store with weed on them, sure. Driving with weed in the car, maybe...sometimes.
But just having weed and doing nothing else, hardly happens. In fact here is a list of states where it NEVER happens.
Alaska *
California
Colorado *
Connecticut
Delaware
District of Columbia *
Illinois
Maine
Maryland
Massachusetts
Minnesota ***
Mississippi
Missouri ** ***
Nebraska
Nevada ***
New York
North Carolina ***
Ohio ***
Oregon *
Rhode Island
Vermont
* Voters in each of these jurisdictions have subsequently approved legislation legalizing the adult use and personal cultivation of cannabis
** Missouri's decriminalization law takes effect January 1, 2017.
*** These states still classify marijuana possession offenses as criminal misdemeanors, but the offenses do not carry any threat of jail time.
That's almost half the country. Nobody ends up in the clink, worst case scenario you get the equivalent of a ticket for a misdemeanor. Want to know what happens in most of the others states? NOTHING.
Unless you are dealing or engaged in some other form of criminal activity you are going to get your personal use weed confiscated and sent on your way because 99.999% of the cops don't want to do the paperwork over personal weight.
I wish there was a state with enough enforcement that people wouldn't risk dealing in the open, smoking in public or having it in their car as they drive down the interstate, I'd seriously think about moving there. Because trying to get your shit done in a public place where some ahole is blazing away sucks.
Cant embed this video, but how do these guys remain employed in Colorado while openly smoking pot?
https://www.facebook.com/ajplusenglish/videos/806802519461257/
Great question. My employer still conducts drug screening that everyone needs to pass before hiring. I'm all for legalizing pot as long as your drug use doesn't hit me in the wallet if/when you lose your job.
sevenhelmet
10-03-16, 19:45
Because trying to get your shit done in a public place where some ahole is blazing away sucks.
Agreed. I was three sheets to the wind in Key West once, and trying to get a burger at Wendy's. Long story short, it was about 3 am, and some dudes who had just been toking walked in behind us. I gagged, and almost vomited from the smell of the MJ. I had previously had no idea what it smelled like. I've been in a few public places since where it was faintly notable in the air, and had the same reaction.
So I'm cool with weed, as long as I don't have to smell it in every damn restaurant, bar, and gas station in the country. But I don't discriminate. I feel the same way about tobacco smoke, even though it doesn't make me want to puke. I figure people don't want to listen to the banging of my guns, so I head way out of town (to BLM land or an approved range) when I'm going to shoot.
If someone reeks of pot when they get on my plane, I kick them off. Otherwise, I dgaf.
Averageman
10-04-16, 10:09
Great question. My employer still conducts drug screening that everyone needs to pass before hiring. I'm all for legalizing pot as long as your drug use doesn't hit me in the wallet if/when you lose your job.
So what does an employer do when an employee is working in Colorado?
As an example your hotel maid turns you in to your boss who is also with you, for smoking weed in your hotel room?
They give them a urinalysis and falsify the results, the employee passes the test on paper, the positive results are thrown away and I'm guessing the legal department doesn't want to touch that with a ten foot pole.
All sorts of products are sold to beat drug tests. Shampoo for hair follicle tests, mouth wash for mouth swab tests, synthetic urine for urine tests, detoxifiers for blood tests, etc. They aren't 100% effective, but so many people use them without issues.
Really, I feel drug testing is an unquestionable invasion of privacy- damn what SCOTUS or any other court says. So I'm glad these products exist.
The F'd up thing about drug testing is that 5-7% receive false positives, which can be related to diet, medications and some other factors. So even if you don't do drugs of any kind you could potentially pop on a drug screen. Guilty until you can prove your innocence. **** THAT!
So what does an employer do when an employee is working in Colorado?
As an example your hotel maid turns you in to your boss who is also with you, for smoking weed in your hotel room?
They give them a urinalysis and falsify the results, the employee passes the test on paper, the positive results are thrown away and I'm guessing the legal department doesn't want to touch that with a ten foot pole.
We fire people for testing positive for legal drugs all the time. All of our employees sign the zero tolerance drug use policy as part of their hiring process.
Averageman
10-04-16, 13:03
We fire people for testing positive for legal drugs all the time. All of our employees sign the zero tolerance drug use policy as part of their hiring process.
The F'd up thing about drug testing is that 5-7% receive false positives, which can be related to diet, medications and some other factors. So even if you don't do drugs of any kind you could potentially pop on a drug screen. Guilty until you can prove your innocence. **** THAT!
There might be some instances where a Company might not want to go down that road, especially in the instance I gave above.
In the long run, the guy will get got. In the way that went down, I would guess that their hands are tied, or they don't want to fire the guy and then face the court drama being that it was legal weed, smoked in a state where weed is legal and the Hotel Maid was the one who gave him up.
I would guess HR and Legal don't want to touch it.
Digital_Damage
10-04-16, 13:05
What am I missing here? It is still illegal at the fed level. It seems simple, don't smoke weed.
Digital_Damage
10-04-16, 13:07
There might be some instances where a Company might not want to go down that road, especially in the instance I gave above.
In the long run, the guy will get got. In the way that went down, I would guess that their hands are tied, or they don't want to fire the guy and then face the court drama being that it was legal weed, smoked in a state where weed is legal and the Hotel Maid was the one who gave him up.
I would guess HR and Legal don't want to touch it.
Colorado is an At-will employment state, they don't have to justify the firing. They can fire you for not liking your face.
Averageman
10-04-16, 13:19
Colorado is an At-will employment state, they don't have to justify the firing. They can fire you for not liking your face.
Yeah, but the Company isn't based in Colorado.
Michigan, lots of union employee's.
I just don't think they wanted to potentially drag this thing through the Courts.
Whiskey_Bravo
10-04-16, 13:25
Colorado is an At-will employment state, they don't have to justify the firing. They can fire you for not liking your face.
That may be true, just like it is in Texas. But large companies just don't do that. It takes our company forever to complete the firing process, it's absolutely absurd. Multiple write ups, "get well" plans, etc.
That may be true, just like it is in Texas. But large companies just don't do that. It takes our company forever to complete the firing process, it's absolutely absurd. Multiple write ups, "get well" plans, etc.
That's just to help out at the unemployment hearings. Those usually turn into lie fests anyway.
For all intents and purposes weed is legal. How many states have "personal weight" exemptions? When was the last time you saw somebody get arrested, let alone prosecuted, for possession?
Yesterday in the fourth judicial circuit in and for Duval County Florida. I will probably see it again today too. (I am a bailiff) And if you get an adjudication on possession of less than twenty grams of marijuana your drivers license is suspended for a period of twelve months.
So, taxpayer money was spent to arrest, transport, house, feed, prosecute, adjudicate, convict and then release on time served just to get $330 in court costs. And now the jackass will come back on a driving while license suspended charge just to waste more money for the same process for another $330 in court costs.
All because he possessed a plant. A plant that was perfectly legal until some old white dudes decided it wasn't in the early 20th century.
My take on drugs and the drug war is that it is a complete waste of time and resources. People who want to do drugs are gonna do them and someone will sell them to the users no matter what laws are created to try and stop them.
I think that people should be able to ingest and imbibe any intoxicant they wish so long as you don't directly or indirectly harm other people. However not one taxpayer dime should be spent on drug rehab programs. You decide to start using drugs and it destroys life? Too ****in bad.
People should be free. We should be free to make all the bad decisions we want. However we should not be free from the consequences of those bad decisions.
If I were running for office my drug policy would be this. Legalize everything (especially if it is plant based/derived). Prohibit taxpayer funding of drug rehab/treatment. Bring back D.A.R.E. programs in schools. And institute National CCW/CWP reciprocity and Stand Your Ground laws.
That's my take on the whole thing.
Averageman
10-05-16, 11:37
William Randolph Hearst.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_history_of_cannabis_in_the_United_States
Newspaper mogul William Randolph Hearst's empire of newspapers used the "yellow journalism" pioneered by Hearst to demonize the cannabis plant and spread a public perception that there were connections between cannabis and violent crime.[43] Several scholars argue that the goal was to destroy the hemp industry,[44][45][46] largely as an effort of Hearst, Andrew Mellon and the Du Pont family.[44][46] They argue that with the invention of the decorticator hemp became a very cheap substitute for the wood pulp that was used in the newspaper industry.[44][47] However, Hearst newspapers owed large debts to Canadian suppliers of paper, who used wood as raw material. If an alternative raw material for paper had emerged, it would have lowered the price of the paper needed to print Hearst's many newspapers—a positive thing for Hearst.
Follow the money, just like with anything else.
Yesterday in the fourth judicial circuit in and for Duval County Florida. I will probably see it again today too. (I am a bailiff) And if you get an adjudication on possession of less than twenty grams of marijuana your drivers license is suspended for a period of twelve months.
So, taxpayer money was spent to arrest, transport, house, feed, prosecute, adjudicate, convict and then release on time served just to get $330 in court costs. And now the jackass will come back on a driving while license suspended charge just to waste more money for the same process for another $330 in court costs.
All because he possessed a plant. A plant that was perfectly legal until some old white dudes decided it wasn't in the early 20th century.
My take on drugs and the drug war is that it is a complete waste of time and resources. People who want to do drugs are gonna do them and someone will sell them to the users no matter what laws are created to try and stop them.
I think that people should be able to ingest and imbibe any intoxicant they wish so long as you don't directly or indirectly harm other people. However not one taxpayer dime should be spent on drug rehab programs. You decide to start using drugs and it destroys life? Too ****in bad.
People should be free. We should be free to make all the bad decisions we want. However we should not be free from the consequences of those bad decisions.
If I were running for office my drug policy would be this. Legalize everything (especially if it is plant based/derived). Prohibit taxpayer funding of drug rehab/treatment. Bring back D.A.R.E. programs in schools. And institute National CCW/CWP reciprocity and Stand Your Ground laws.
That's my take on the whole thing.
I'm cool with the bolded part as long as you do away welfare and public funding for rehab BEFORE legalization. That includes overturning EMTALA which forces me to save people who overdose, wreck their car, get endocarditis, etc. as a consequence of their choice regardless of their ability to pay. Get back with me once the necessary prerequisites are complete and I'll help you draw up a petition.
Digital_Damage
10-05-16, 12:15
Yeah, but the Company isn't based in Colorado.
Michigan, lots of union employee's.
I just don't think they wanted to potentially drag this thing through the Courts.
Does not matter where the company is located, It matters what state you primarily reside in and pay taxes to.
There would be no court, there would be an arbitration and that would take an hour at most.
"Did they fire you?"
"Yes"
"Was It because of your Age,Pregnancy,National Origin,Race,Ethnic Background,Religious Beliefs or Sexual Orientation?"
"No"
"Kthx bye"
I'm cool with the bolded part as long as you do away welfare and public funding for rehab BEFORE legalization. That includes overturning EMTALA which forces me to save people who overdose, wreck their car, get endocarditis, etc. as a consequence of their choice regardless of their ability to pay. Get back with me once the necessary prerequisites are complete and I'll help you draw up a petition.
Sounds good to me. Like I said, people should suffer the consequences of their bad decisions.
Averageman
10-05-16, 13:13
Does not matter where the company is located, It matters what state you primarily reside in and pay taxes to.
There would be no court, there would be an arbitration and that would take an hour at most.
"Did they fire you?"
"Yes"
"Was It because of your Age,Pregnancy,National Origin,Race,Ethnic Background,Religious Beliefs or Sexual Orientation?"
"No"
"Kthx bye"
And that's the way I thought it would go down.
For whatever reason, it didn't work that way.
I dont care what anybody soes anymore as long as I dont gotta pay for it and they dont come at me.
If you wanna get high all day have at it.
I just dont care anymore. I've known too many folks dead or crippled because someone HAD to make a big bust which generates revenue.
You kidding me?
I just.....recently took this vow of celibacy where I don't give a F no more.
I never had a problem with the funyun crowd for the most part. But even if we talk about just weed, I know a lot of people who are jacked up problems. From the guys with WWF fantasies who smoke bongs for breakfast to the wannabe bangers who start shit all the time but never did anything harder than weed.
Maybe they were all going to be a problem regardless, but weed sure as shit ain't making them cool. Wish it did.
I think all weed does is inhibit your decision making. If you are mostly a decent person that might translate to buying and eating two dozen twinkies. If you are the violent criminal sort...well that might translate into lots of bad shit.
Again, if I don't have to deal with your baked ass and I don't have you stinking up my side of the property line, I could honestly not care what you do.
Prolonged use of weed on a regular basis turns you into a stoner.
You forget stuff and lose your normal sense of what's going on in your life.
Pot advocates don't even try to argue the point, I know first hand what it will do to your brain.
Prolonged use of weed on a regular basis turns you into a stoner.
You forget stuff and lose your normal sense of what's going on in your life.
Pot advocates don't even try to argue the point, I know first hand what it will do to your brain.
Alcohol messes people up right good, yet you can buy it at wal mart. Prolonged alcohol use turns you into a drunk.
I have long given up trying to save people from themselves
I wish people would stop henpecking other people's vices. If you're a whoredog gay or straight, you could end up with STDs...
the worst of all being kids nobody wants who wont be shit but criminals or deadbeats.
Eating shit food leads to your body saying "arrgh I cant take it, youre on yer own!" and death.
Lots of aspersions can be cast and holier than thou-ness.
Why do you care? Nobody is asking you to join in.
I learned far too late that nobody really matters, we are all going to die, nobody has any special destiny, nothing has any more value than what we place on it, and while I wile and worry some slew foot jive bird with HIV is bed hopping between baby mommas, is drunk, high, doesnt care about anything beyond shooting dice, and doesnt work yet will never be homeless.
So what? If I keep a sharp haircut, say my prayers, and pay taxes early I get a medal or unlock an Xbox achievement?
weee
sevenhelmet
10-05-16, 21:36
So what? If I keep a sharp haircut, say my prayers, and pay taxes early I get a medal or unlock an Xbox achievement?
weee
The older I get, the more I think the ultimate achievement in life is found in being left alone.
The older I get, the more I think the ultimate achievement in life is found in being left alone.
I'll raise a Mr. Pibb to that
Alcohol messes people up right good, yet you can buy it at wal mart. Prolonged alcohol use turns you into a drunk.
I have long given up trying to save people from themselves
I wish people would stop henpecking other people's vices. If you're a whoredog gay or straight, you could end up with STDs...
the worst of all being kids nobody wants who wont be shit but criminals or deadbeats.
Eating shit food leads to your body saying "arrgh I cant take it, youre on yer own!" and death.
Lots of aspersions can be cast and holier than thou-ness.
Why do you care? Nobody is asking you to join in.
I learned far too late that nobody really matters, we are all going to die, nobody has any special destiny, nothing has any more value than what we place on it, and while I wile and worry some slew foot jive bird with HIV is bed hopping between baby mommas, is drunk, high, doesnt care about anything beyond shooting dice, and doesnt work yet will never be homeless.
So what? If I keep a sharp haircut, say my prayers, and pay taxes early I get a medal or unlock an Xbox achievement?
weee
I care because it "usually" ends the same, even for alcohol abuse. Taking tax dollars out of my pockets. Want pure freedom, remove all of the safety nets. Until you do that I care and have a say in what policies I support.
I care because it "usually" ends the same, even for alcohol abuse. Taking tax dollars out of my pockets. Want pure freedom, remove all of the safety nets. Until you do that I care and have a say in what policies I support.
Fair enough. You have a point. Counter-point is that society doesn't care that your tax money is pissed away
If you know of a way to definitively get tge government to stop the gibs and entitlements and let people fester and rot; please tell me. I will no joke join the cause.
All I know is if I caught the HIV I'd be up shit creek because I couldnt afford the medicine yet Roscoe gets his shit for free.
If I was ever in a tight, I wouldnt qualify for a goddamned thing. I would be dead under a bridge.
So until we can get 2/3s of voters in this country to remove the safety net, youbare tilting at windmills, my friend. You, same as me, are very much ignored until tax time. Then all we get is a very firm "pay up, sucker!"
So, figure out a way to turn it around and a comrade you shall have. Until then, your opinions, noatter how strongly held, get laughed at.
They just dumped more Syrians than NY and LA combined near where I sleep. Nobody asked me. I say "Hey I dont like that. I pay taxes". I get "lol government. Deal with it!" and hung up on.
So...just stop caring. If Achmed blows my black ass up or shoots me at the gay bar because lol muh huly buuk then at least I died a good, clean tax paying death.
Yay America!
I read this today (http://wreg.com/2016/10/06/national-guard-state-police-perform-raid-on-81-yer-olds-property-for-one-pot-plant/), randomly, without hunting for it. The ****ing NG, Staties, and a goddamned helo for 1 pot plant?
The Massachusettes National Guard and State Police joined forces to obtain a single marijuana plant from an 81-year-old woman.
According to the Daily Hampshire Gazette, who initially reported the story. Margaret Holcomb said she was growing the plant for medicine.
On Sept. 21, a military-style helicopter and police arrived at Holcomb’s home, entered her backyard and cut down the plant, reports the Daily Hampshire Gazette.
According to the report, she would use it to ease her arthritis and glaucoma and help her sleep at night...
wow.... if Trump want's some Bernie voters, he should jump on that. Wasteful gov't spending and pot oriented.
I read this today (http://wreg.com/2016/10/06/national-guard-state-police-perform-raid-on-81-yer-olds-property-for-one-pot-plant/), randomly, without hunting for it. The ****ing NG, Staties, and a goddamned helo for 1 pot plant?
I am reminded of this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m57gzA2JCcM
Figured this was best thread to bump with this intel:
Fed schedule change in the near future? That would solve the issue as it relates to the fed form vs states allowing either medical use or casual non med use:
LOS ANGELES (AP) - President Donald Trump says he's inclined to support a bipartisan effort in Congress to ease the U.S. ban on marijuana.
Asked Friday about a proposal that would reshape the nation's approach to pot, Trump said he would "probably end up supporting that."
The federal ban has created a conflict with more than two dozen states that have legalized marijuana in some form.
http://www.fox4news.com/news/trump-signals-support-for-legislation-lifting-federal-ban-on-marijuana
See! Look at that! Not only is Trump a filthy nasty racist, sexist cheeto swilling swine but he also wants YOUR kids hooked on drugs!
(Said with Flailing, impotent, red faced liberal rage)
Sent from my SM-J727T using Tapatalk
See! Look at that! Not only is Trump a filthy nasty racist, sexist cheeto swilling swine but he also wants YOUR kids hooked on drugs!
(Said with Flailing, impotent, red faced liberal rage)
Sent from my SM-J727T using Tapatalk
But liberals love pot.
They will be torn apart.
“Trump is Hitler... but he legalized MJ”. He will be their freinemy.
#berniesupportersfortrump
But liberals love pot.
They will be torn apart.
“Trump is Hitler... but he legalized MJ”. He will be their freinemy.
#berniesupportersfortrump
Liberal leftists don't mind being hypocrites when it suits their needs. They will continue to do their "Trump is the devil" thing while suggesting Obama laid the groundwork for legalized weed even if some other President actually made it happen. Facts don't matter, perception is subjective.
Liberal leftists don't mind being hypocrites when it suits their needs. They will continue to do their "Trump is the devil" thing while suggesting Obama laid the groundwork for legalized weed even if some other President actually made it happen. Facts don't matter, perception is subjective.
Both sides of the extreme suffer serious case O cognitive dissonance , but I find the left far more intellectually dishonest on most topics than the extreme end of the other spectrum.
You guys should get out more often. Plenty of conservatives, libertarians, etc. smoke weed.
You guys should get out more often. Plenty of conservatives, libertarians, etc. smoke weed.
If you are responding to me, i know.
The point is liberals dont care about stuff until Trump does it, then its evil.
If you are responding to me, i know.
The point is liberals dont care about stuff until Trump does it, then its evil.
Not you specifically. Just the generalizations that usually get thrown around.
You guys should get out more often. Plenty of conservatives, libertarians, etc. smoke weed.
Most libertarians don't even know what libertarian actually means and are libertarians simply because they think it means free weed. For example, Bill Maher labors under the delusion that he's a libertarian when in fact he is a liberal statist.
Most libertarians don't even know what libertarian actually means and are libertarians simply because they think it means free weed. For example, Bill Maher labors under the delusion that he's a libertarian when in fact he is a liberal statist.
Bill Maher does not represent most Libertarians. I cringe every time I hear him claim to be one. He seems to fashion himself a "left-libertarian", which is a philosophy the vast majority of libertarians do not believe aligns at all with their core principles.
Most libertarians don't even know what libertarian actually means and are libertarians simply because they think it means free weed. For example, Bill Maher labors under the delusion that he's a libertarian when in fact he is a liberal statist.
He claims to be a Libertarian?! Know I have heard f-ing everything. Once in a while he shocks me by getting something right, like he's pretty honest about Islam not being the religion of peace and such, he's a flaming lefty.
he's a flaming lefty.
Hell, he's in a Lefty class of his own. The only time he's not spewing Leftist BS is when he's playing Devil's advocate to his ultra Left panel of guests.
[QUOTE=WillBrink;2638067
LOS ANGELES (AP) - President Donald Trump says he's inclined to support a bipartisan effort in Congress to ease the U.S. ban on marijuana.
[/QUOTE]
That's probably a pretty smart move to announce now. If he can get Lefties and Millennials to stay home in '18 and then pass the laws by '20 to keep them home.
Marijuana is a fait accompli. Trump would be an absolute fool not it leverage the political nature of it to get Rs into offices and him win a re-election. Even if he has to wait for 3 years he can do the Obama thing and say ignore the law. Then He and Sessions can play good cop / bad cop.
At this point in time it's a win win. Even in VA where I live the Rs prevent nearly all legalization, so even they could steal the thunder from the Dem Gov.
No one is going to stop the Marijuana Train at this point. So he might as well put his stripped hat on, blast the horn and drive it it across the USA.
It will be yet another thing he has stolen right from under the Dems noses.
Averageman
06-30-18, 11:38
It's looking more and more like POTUS Trump wants real free trade with a caveat for National Security on things like steel and aluminium.
Easing or elimination of marijuana laws.
Speeding up drug trials or eliminating them for people in perilous situations.
Real borders with a wall and penalties.
Lower Taxes.
A strong Military.
Open dialogue with countries we have considered enemies.
Elimination of the NORK nuclear weapons.
Hmmm so what's not to like at this point?
I hated his Twitter app for almost a year and thought it negatively impacted his Presidency, I'm beginning to see it as a sort of cattle prod he uses to poke the left in to doing and saying even stupider stuff than he Twitter's.
At this point in time removing marijuana prohibition may win him re-elected. Go for it then, there are far too many up sides.
Frankly, I'm to the point with this whole pot thing, I don't care anymore... Don't sell it to minors, don't do it while driving, or at work, and don't bother me while you're stoned.. Tax the shit out of it...And keep strict control on the growers, sellers..any funny business, and you're out, and can NEVER get back in.
Frankly, I'm to the point with this whole pot thing, I don't care anymore... Don't sell it to minors, don't do it while driving, or at work, and don't bother me while you're stoned.. Tax the shit out of it...And keep strict control on the growers, sellers..any funny business, and you're out, and can NEVER get back in.
That's one of the very few topics the majority of 'Muricans agree on, yet seems to be mostly ignored. Maybe starting to get some traction.
Hemp to be made fully legal? Not the same as medical marijuana, but an interesting development:
U.S. Senate Votes To Legalize Hemp After Decades-Long Ban Under Marijuana Prohibition
The non-psychoactive cannabis cousin of marijuana would finally become legal to grow in the United States under a bill overwhelmingly approved by the Senate.
The wide-ranging agriculture and food policy legislation known as the Farm Bill, passed by a vote of 86 - 11 on Thursday, contains provisions to legalize the cultivation, processing and sale of industrial hemp.
The move, championed by Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-KY), would also make hemp plants eligible for crop insurance.
"Consumers across America buy hundreds of millions in retail products every year that contain hemp," McConnell said in a floor speech on Thursday. "But due to outdated federal regulations that do not sufficiently distinguish this industrial crop from its illicit cousin, American farmers have been mostly unable to meet that demand themselves. It's left consumers with little choice but to buy imported hemp products from foreign-produced hemp."
https://www.forbes.com/sites/tomangell/2018/06/28/u-s-senate-votes-to-legalize-hemp-after-decades-long-ban-under-marijuana-prohibition/#34ee7e44418a
I don't use dope-of course. But back in the day any time I did anything stupid, alcohol was involved, never from a little weed. I can also say that during my 30+ years of Policing, don't recall going to fights, domestics, etc. with people smoking dope, they were always drunk. Common denominator with a domestic assault was alcohol, root of evil for some. I think the alcohol just enhances peoples flaws, like the quote "a mean drunk" well the person is already that way.
On the flip side, I despise the degenerate (insert dyed hair, fat, dirty, disheveled, anti govt., etc) free loader type dope smoker same as a nasty drunk.
Tax the shit out of it...
And then they just buy it off their regular, non-taxed, source. Easy day.
And then they just buy it off their regular, non-taxed, source. Easy day.
Yes, the taxed price should not exceed the street costs. That defeats the purpose on various levels. It should be noted however that even what's happened in the US for legalization, medical etc, has already cut into the profits of the cartels. This is a few years old, and more states are going toward legal/decriminalized/MM since that time, so probably a higher % by now:
Legal marijuana is finally doing what the drug war couldn’t
Legal marijuana may be doing at least one thing that a decades-long drug war couldn't: taking a bite out of Mexican drug cartels' profits.
The latest data from the U.S. Border Patrol shows that last year, marijuana seizures along the southwest border tumbled to their lowest level in at least a decade. Agents snagged roughly 1.5 million pounds of marijuana at the border, down from a peak of nearly 4 million pounds in 2009.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/03/03/legal-marijuana-is-finally-doing-what-the-drug-war-couldnt/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.274d848ab5bc
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