**Update** Question ref barrel and glass set up, how to proceed

[Serpico1985]

**update post 13**

Hey guys,

What I have: A 5.56 Noveske barreled upper (16" chrome lined N4 barrel with about 2.5k through it). It's got a Geissele Mk1 rail and a Geissele super tricon trigger.

What I'd like to do: I've decided that I'd like to get into some longer range shooting. No further than the occasional trip to a 600 yard range (may try to make it to a match at Butner NC long range), mostly out to 300 yards (longest range at my gun club).

My experience level: Up until this point I only have experince with iron sights and aimpoints, been through a VTAC class and a LE patrol rifle class.

My Plan: My plan is to pick up a nice variable power scope. I have my eyes on the Nightforce 2.5-10x32 with a mil dot reticle and mil adjustments. Buy once, cry once. Your scope should cost as much as your rifle etc. I'm attracted to this Nightforce because I see it on a SPR type M4's. It also seems like it's got enough magnification and good enough glass that If I decide to get some sort of larger caliber bolt rifle (down the road) I could move it over to that rifle and it would get the job done.

My Questions: I'm not looking for sub MOA accuracy. I'd be happy if it could hold 3moa out to 500 or 600 yards with match ammo. I will not be reloading, only buying quality off the shelf match ammo.

-Could I expect these resluts from my proposed set up?

-I've thought about possibly selling the Noveske barrel and bolt and putting proceeds towards a stainless match type barrel like something from the Rainer arms line that I could get for $250-$300. Is this needed for my intended goals, or should I try out the Noveske N4 barrel first?

-If a new barrel is advised should I choose a chamber that is geared toward a specific round like the SAM-R/MK262 combo or should I get a 223 wylde chamber rifle letting me shoot different match ammo's?

Any comments or thoughts would be appreciated.

Thanks

ETA: I've considered a 1-4x or a 1.5-5x range scope but figure that if I'm planing on spending $1400 on a optic I should go ahead and get the higher magnification range. I'm also not worried if the rifle gets a little heavier since I have other light weight AR's.

[ALCOAR]

Hey guys,

What I have: A 5.56 Noveske barreled upper (16" chrome lined N4 barrel with about 2.5k through it). It's got a Geissele Mk1 rail and a Geissele super tricon trigger.

What I'd like to do: I've decided that I'd like to get into some longer range shooting. No further than the occasional trip to a 600 yard range (may try to make it to a match at Butner NC long range), mostly out to 300 yards (longest range at my gun club).

My experience level: Up until this point I only have experince with iron sights and aimpoints, been through a VTAC class and a LE patrol rifle class.

My Plan: My plan is to pick up a nice variable power scope. I have my eyes on the Nightforce 2.5-10x32 with a mil dot reticle and mil adjustments. Buy once, cry once. Your scope should cost as much as your rifle etc. I'm attracted to this Nightforce because I see it on a SPR type M4's. It also seems like it's got enough magnification and good enough glass that If I decide to get some sort of larger caliber bolt rifle (down the road) I could move it over to that rifle and it would get the job done.

This will be the real key to unlocking your rifle's full potential....don't think it any further, go out and buy a NXS compact. You'll grow perfectly into this optic as you start your LR journey.

My Questions: I'm not looking for sub MOA accuracy. I'd be happy if it could hold 3moa out to 500 or 600 yards with match ammo. I will not be reloading, only buying quality off the shelf match ammo.

-Could I expect these resluts from my proposed set up?

Quality factory loads will be well within 3MOA to 600yds as long as the shooter does his job.

-I've thought about possibly selling the Noveske barrel and bolt and putting proceeds towards a stainless match type barrel like something from the Rainer arms line that I could get for $250-$300. Is this needed for my intended goals, or should I try out the Noveske N4 barrel first?

I would certainly try out your current barrel first, and focus on the other critical component that is significantly more costly

-If a new barrel is advised should I choose a chamber that is geared toward a specific round like the SAM-R/MK262 combo or should I get a 223 wylde chamber rifle letting me shoot different match ammo's?

Any comments or thoughts would be appreciated.

Thanks

Imho, a great 2 stage trigger, and a premium mid powered variable glass (9/10x on the top end) are every bit as important as the actual barrel to the end game of having success at distance. A FF rail and bipod are the other critical components.

ETA: I've considered a 1-4x or a 1.5-5x range scope but figure that if I'm planing on spending $1400 on a optic I should go ahead and get the higher magnification range. I'm also not worried if the rifle gets a little heavier since I have other light weight AR's.

If you really want to spend time at 600yds +.....definitely get the 2.5-10x imho.

[Nater]

I would definitely agree with trident's advice: Skip the low power optics if you are planning on greater than 300yd shooting. I have a 2.5-10 and I think it it an excellent power range; your intended use and budget will dictate whether you get a NF or something more affordable. I am EXTREMELY pleased with my 2.5-10x44 Vortex PST. It is a SFP and the reticle stays very fine for the longer shots- very nice. Once you get the scope zeroed, shoot the rifle with as many 69gr or 77gr Sierra MatchKing loadings you need to in order to get one that your rifle likes. I have heard that the N4 barrels are quite accurate, generally can be less than 2moa with the right match ammo.

[Serpico1985]

Thanks for the info. Wanted to make sure I wasn't missing something in my line of thinking. I'll stick with the N4 barrel.

[Scoby]

Yeah, get your optic and shoot that barrel.

I've had a number of Noveske N4 barrels and all shot better than 3 MOA.

[Serpico1985]

Nightforce 2.5-10x32 mil turrets, mil-dot ordered from CS tactical......exciting times.

[kevN]

I'd recommend looking at the Vortex 2.5-10x PST FFP with MRAD reticle which I believe to be every bit as good as the NF and use the spare change towards match ammo.

[ALCOAR]

Damn right it's exciting buying a NF compact:) When I bought my first one I assumed I was making a purchase for life, and I also assumed I would use the shit out of it to justify the large expense.

My assumptions were spot on...they'll outlive me, and I don't imagine myself not ever keeping them on primary rifles.

Great config. on it as well to ensure that you'll never grow out of it....mil/mil dot and Zerostop is extremely flexible, or versatile.

[DWood]

I have the same goals, 500-600 yards, for the rifle I am building. Since I am starting from scratch, I went with the WOA SPR barrel, 1-7, 223 Wylde, SS, in stock at Brownell's for $279. As others have stated, shoot your Noveske barrel to see what it will do, but I wouldn't be happy with 3 MOA.

As Trident stated, one of the key ingredients is a great two-stage trigger. If the Internet history of the SPR project at CRANE is correct, the M4 trigger is the reason the project turned into a "rifle" rather than "receiver (upper"), because the regular M4 trigger was not cutting it for their LR accuracy needs. The original idea was to put the accurate upper on a standard lower. I am installing the Geissle DMR on one of my current lowers.

I too considered the NF but my 57 year old eyes can use a little more than 10X. That's just personal preference.

[Doc. Holiday]

+1 for the Vortex. I have their 4x16 PST FFP and love that thing! It was a really hard choice between that and the 2.5x10. Both are really good scopes. Both have zero stops, mil/mil turret and reticle. I would recommend the Larue SPR mount with the quick detach latches. You won't be disappointed! Also echoing on the 69gr and 75-77gr ammo.

[Serpico1985]

Thanks for suggestions on the Vortex but I guess I had my mind set on Nightforce. Got the scope and got it mounted. I'll take it to the range in a week or so and put some generic 55gr stuff through it. Have to recover from the optic purchase before I get any quality ammo. Thanks for help.



http://i61.tinypic.com/2i10b5e.jpg

[HD1911]

Thanks for suggestions on the Vortex but I guess I had my mind set on Nightforce. Got the scope and got it mounted. I'll take it to the range in a week or so and put some generic 55gr stuff through it. Have to recover from the optic purchase before I get any quality ammo. Thanks for help.



http://i61.tinypic.com/2i10b5e.jpg

Good call.

Show some pics when you get the chance!

[Serpico1985]

Figured I'd update my own thread. I couldn't go with the standard chrome-lined barrel with the Nightforce Optic. I can throw out a bunch of loose logic as to why but bottom line is I wanted a top of the line barrel to go with the optic so I sold the Noveske CL barrel and bolt and bought a 18" Noveske SPR barrel with matched bolt from DSG. Here is the new configuration:

http://i57.tinypic.com/33osc93.jpg

13" KMR to save on weight
Vortex flash hider
SSA trigger
Atlas Bipod

I went to the range today to and got a initial zero on the rifle. After getting on paper at 100 yards with federal AE223 I switched to the first batch of match ammo I purchased for the rifle: Israel Military Industries (IMI) 77gr OTM, LR, MOD 1 (basically MK262 clone). This ammo was around $0.75 before shipping and $0.90 after shipping. The first couple of groups with the IMI ammo were not good and in the 3" range. Then it seemed to settle down a bit and I got a couple 3 round groups and one 5 round group:

http://i62.tinypic.com/22dtty.jpg

-The 3 shot group to the right of the center black square is 1/2" center to center.
-The 3 shot group below the center black square is 7/8" center to center.
-The 5 shot group to the left of the center black dot is 1.5" with the flyer and 3/4" without.
-The 2 shot group in the head box is 2" and is the Federal AE223.

I'm pretty psyched about the groups. I know 3 shot groups and not as good as 5 shot groups which aren't as good as 10 shot groups but I feel like I'm off to a good start considering I've never shot with a magnified optic or from a bipod. I definitely have a lot of work to do. I could tell the longer I shot I got a little better and finding the natural point of aim which seemed to play a big role in down range performance.

Thanks for all the tips. I may pop back in here and ask for some help with shooting technique as I'm sure that I don't know what I don't know at this point.