View Full Version : New ammo has gun owners drooling
http://thelibertydigest.com/2014/01/24/the-new-ammunition-that-has-gun-owners-drooling/
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=mJGH7cDFw7c
They call it the R.I.P. round and with good reason. G2 Research has released a new ammo that is taking the market by storm and has gun owners all over the country trying to find where to pick some up.
As of now, the company is only releasing specifications for their 9mm round and they go a lil’ something like this:
* 16″ Penetration
* Up to 6″ diameter spread
* 96 gr projectile
* 2″ grouping at 25 yrds
* 1265 FPS / 490 Muzzle Energy
* 9 Separate Wound Channels
* Precision Machined
* Solid Copper / Lead Free
* Defeats all known barriers such as sheet metal, sheet rock, windshields, plywood, heavy winter clothing
Anyone know anything about this? First I've seen of it.
Whiskey_Bravo
01-25-14, 10:51
Voice over guy was a little over the top but wicked looking rounds if they work. CNC machined....how expensive are these things going to be?
montanadave
01-25-14, 10:54
Interested to hear some of the resident SMEs weigh in on this one. Looks cool, anyway.
CaptainDooley
01-25-14, 11:04
I think it's clear that most people will miss the point of this round. It's the most efficient round for G18 33 round mag dumps. It turns 33 rounds into 264 birdshot sized fragments plus 33 FMJ rounds that you can get on target within seconds. It's a pistol and a shotgun in one. Run one in each hand and you're practically invincible.
Seriously though - it looks like you get 8 wide throw, shallow penetration fragments like a glaser round and then a single narrow wound channel with deep penetration like a FMJ... it seems like the worst of both worlds to me.
WTF? Am not really sure on this. First thought was for the velocity it is rather slow for such a light weight round. Don't think I would carry this personally for various reasons unless there is much more to it than I am currently seeing. It looks more like a gimmick personally. That said, I would seriously buy a box to put on the ammo shelf. Right next to my box of Black Talons. Serves the same purpose to me, it is a novelty nothing more.
I was thinking gimmick but after seeing the videos, I'm actually curious about this and how it develops.
Need people smarter than me on ballistics. I thought it was gimmicky as well, but the data in that video seems legit to me. It's a nasty looking sum bitch that's for sure.
DreadPirateMoyer
01-25-14, 11:52
Need people smarter than me on ballistics. I thought it was gimmicky as well, but the data in that video seems legit to me. It's a nasty looking sum bitch that's for sure.
Data doesn't look legit. I'm 99% sure they're not using calibrated ballistics gel (b. gel isn't clear), which means who knows how the bullet actually compares to modern self defense rounds on an apples to apples comparison. Their gel tests are their only data, in fact (full auto? computer graphics? water balloon?), and it's completely inconclusive as far as I'm concerned.
As for the bullet itself, those petals aren't going to do anything. They only penetrate 5" in whatever (most likely softened) gel they're using, which means it's utterly useless as far as self defense. Half of this bullet's features amount to being 8 birdshot pellets. They won't even go through a rib cage is my bet.
That means all you're left with for real penetrative damage is a ~70 grain slug. No thanks. 124 gr FMJ would be more effective.
Gonna wait on price point and experienced evaluation on this one.
Until then I will be content with many of the effective JHP defensive rounds on the market.
Grand58742
01-25-14, 12:10
Not an expert either, but the wound channel does not look like anything I remember from Doc's old threads.
And basically you have a shallow bunch of pricks with the barbs or whatever they are and overpenetration with the solid base.
As for the whole CNC machining deal, I have a friend that looked them over and said the bullets themselves would be expensive to manufacture. Per what he said:
The problem is that with the core it takes a different style bit. So they are cutting the core and then changing bits for the cut and designs on the out. Now once getting the process down you can and able to do a larger group of product but still talking wasted material and labor and cnc up keep
I saw it and immediately thought of Extreme Shok.
My gut wanted me to stop at his voice, but I lasted to "hole saw". I wish the endeavor success, but I'm going to pass.
Cagemonkey
01-25-14, 13:40
Any one remember Winchester's Black Talon ammo. An example of advertising working too good. Stuff got banned. Wait until the Anti's get a hold of this. I don't condone such action, but I can just imagine it coming.
Any one remember Winchester's Black Talon ammo. An example of advertising working too good. Stuff got banned. Wait until the Anti's get a hold of this. I don't condone such action, but I can just imagine it coming.
Very good point. Likely the only reason I own a box of black talons and occasionally think about picking up another second hand is because they became collector items. Pull them out to show new shooters and then explain how they aren't a magic bullet and how newer designs are better. Find them to be neat in that regard, but there are many current designs that I feel are much better. Same basic point for these rounds. I would buy a box as a collector's item, same with the Zmax, neat, fun to laugh at, and show off, but I trust my ass to Spreer Gold Dot, HST, and Ranger T.
sandman99and9
01-25-14, 13:48
That guy on the youtube vid needs to team up with Mac the whisperer and do a show together :cool:
S.M.
You'd think if this was legit, some of the nice enthusiasts on this web page would have heard about it before the main stream media. Without putting any effort into checking, this almost feels like an anti's propaganda piece.
Any one remember Winchester's Black Talon ammo. An example of advertising working too good. Stuff got banned. Wait until the Anti's get a hold of this. I don't condone such action, but I can just imagine it coming.
uh yeah, "cop-killer bullets" type travesty here we come...
You'd think if this was legit, some of the nice enthusiasts on this web page would have heard about it before the main stream media. Without putting any effort into checking, this almost feels like an anti's propaganda piece.
Was thinking the same thing with all the full auto pistols
Looks like they'd be a good match for all those ghost guns I keep hearing about.
Any one remember Winchester's Black Talon ammo. An example of advertising working too good. Stuff got banned. Wait until the Anti's get a hold of this. I don't condone such action, but I can just imagine it coming.
I'm actually thrilled if they go after this and goober shit like Extreme Shock ammo. Give them plenty of empty windmills to tilt.
Personally I think Glaser Safety Slugs have the best name. Been out for decades and one hell of a defensive round but since it has the word "safety" in it, 99.999% of the population has never heard of them.
As for Black Talons, you might want to look into Ranger XTS rounds. Also the Black Talon was never banned, there is no legislation specifically prohibiting their sale. Winchester voluntarily removed the product, made minor changes and repackaged it.
Cagemonkey
01-25-14, 19:19
I'm actually thrilled if they go after this and goober shit like Extreme Shock ammo. Give them plenty of empty windmills to tilt.
Personally I think Glaser Safety Slugs have the best name. Been out for decades and one hell of a defensive round but since it has the word "safety" in it, 99.999% of the population has never heard of them.
As for Black Talons, you might want to look into Ranger XTS rounds. Also the Black Talon was never banned, there is no legislation specifically prohibiting their sale. Winchester voluntarily removed the product, made minor changes and repackaged it.Good points. My bad on the banned thing. You are correct. Winchester did change and repackage the load.
ICANHITHIMMAN
01-25-14, 19:30
To me it looks like a gimmick, i don't want my bullets coming apart, if it starts of at x grains in weight and rips its self apart to y grains of wait how is that going to equal more foot pounds of energy transferred into my target? It wont!
Looks interesting that's for sure, but will wait for experts to give nod of approval. As far as CNCing making super expensive, there are CNC machines that are the size of a suitcase, they don't have to be big expensive machine that most think of. Hell you can make your own CNC just for poo's and coo's. Don't know if that is case here or what machine is doing tooling, but can't even picture trying to run something that small in my Haas at work... Esp can't imagine tool holders/tools and fixtures needed to work pieces that small. Normal shop machine I'd think would be extreme overkill, but I have been proven wrong more times than I care to admit, so who knows.
I never got into the Glaser Safety Slug with the compressed shot in the hollow cavity. Penetration was not consistent.
The shards this bullet emits would make a mess of things, Like flechette rounds or IED's. This is going the opposite way from bonded bullets.
Outlander Systems
01-25-14, 22:39
I like the YT video of it blowing through the chicken.
http://youtu.be/eWINwccJ37U
I never got into the Glaser Safety Slug with the compressed shot in the hollow cavity. Penetration was not consistent.
Keep in mind it was competing with lead ball ammunition when it came out. And while modern JHP ammo probably has many significant advantages, I think the Glaser round is still viable.
Magic_Salad0892
01-26-14, 01:00
I forsee feeding issues with that shape of projectile. Especially with 1911 type pistols.
Needs independent testing.
I doubt it'll be shown to be more effective than modern JHP rounds in producing physiological effects to stop a threat.
But I'm keeping an open mind.
Straight Shooter
01-26-14, 02:26
Im gonna let yall have it ALL...more for you!!! See how nice I am? :D
At this stage I'll pass. Beyond a terrible name for their product, all I see (assuming it works as advertised) is massive but shallow damage followed by a wad cutter profile round for penetration and several pieces of shrapnel exiting the target and seeking innocent bystanders to maim.
I'll think stick with proven loads.
Grand58742
01-26-14, 11:42
Well, one thing is for certain, they are getting a lot of free press out of this thing. Most gun boards have a thread or two about it and a lot of people will probably buy them out of curiosity at least at the start and providing they aren't too expensive.
But I would imagine this will eventually fade into the background just like Lemas/RBCD, Extreme Shok and others have done before it.
NCPatrolAR
01-26-14, 11:57
Saw a price of $45/20 today. They are nothing more than a wallet-lightening device
Christ they can keep them for that price.
Sent from my Motorola StarTac using Tapatalk
Saw a price of $45/20 today. They are nothing more than a wallet-lightening device
Sadly that is more than what I see a box of Black Talon's go for locally to me up here. Though during the panic I saw prices for a single box of Black Talons go up to $100, then again I was also seeing 9mm FMJ at $35 a box as well so maybe I should bring that up. Still interested in getting my hands on a box just to have, though I am thinking I will wait for them to go on clearance or until the price drops from stratosphere.
For carry ammo I think I will stick with my ~$30 boxes of Gold Dot in boxes of 50.
45/20$ oh hell no!! I'll stick to DRT, critical duty/defense and gold dots.
Isn't Ranger T the updated version of the Black Talon? I call the Ranger T's copper talons lol.
Heavy Metal
01-26-14, 18:16
I have coined a new Lexicon to the Language: "Scammo" or "Scammunition". Feel free to use it.
Isn't Ranger T the updated version of the Black Talon? I call the Ranger T's copper talons lol.
Actually it's an improved version but since it lacks the black lubalox coating it's no longer evil.
I have coined a new Lexicon to the Language: "Scammo" or "Scammunition". Feel free to use it.
I like it. Congratulations.
This has all the symptoms of a gimmick - shooting watermelons, techno rock background, extreme sounding name, gratuitous gel shots which may or may not be calibrated, etc.
I believe this will excite those gun owners who are already prone to drooling... ;)
sandman99and9
01-27-14, 18:13
You should see all the failtards posting about this round on Facebook and the blaze has an article on it also.
So many "experts" talking about how they will get banned just like the Black Talon rounds :)
Look at this gem
"They will work but i wouldn't just rely on them. Its why I stagger different rounds in my mags in case SHTF. HP, FMJ, HP, FRAG, HP. That way something is get thru to the vitals."
I hope he means different magazines and not all those different kinds of ammo in one mag but who knows ?
S.M.
Look at this gem
"They will work but i wouldn't just rely on them. Its why I stagger different rounds in my mags in case SHTF. HP, FMJ, HP, FRAG, HP. That way something is get thru to the vitals."
I hope he means different magazines and not all those different kinds of ammo in one mag but who knows ?
S.M.
Would bet dollars to donuts that he is talking the same mag. I've always called them and heard them called cocktail mags. I don't do so and don't suggest them for anyone for a variety of reasons, not the least being that different loads have different POI and that is reason enough to keep things simple. That said, have known more than a few who have carried cocktail mags in the past including a friend of mine who I bought my 17 off of and had the mags loaded with a mix of DPX, HydroShok, and a Barnes loading. That boy did like his higher end ammo.
Sweet jesus the facebook comments I'm reading are making my head explode. It's really amazing how stupid the majority of gun owners really are.
Sweet jesus the facebook comments I'm reading are making my head explode. It's really amazing how stupid the majority of gun owners really are.
You ain't kiddin'
sandman99and9
01-28-14, 19:19
I have seen multiple stories about this ammo and even after someone gets corrected about the "Black Talon ammo getting banned" just a few posts later and there it is again. SMH
One thread actually had about 6 different people say it was banned and like 4 or 5 people tell them they are full of crap. I felt my I.Q. dropping just by reading those posts :(
S.M.
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