View Full Version : Somehow Nearly Forgot How Magnificent Saving Private Ryan Really Is
Due to spontaneously having watched a bit of it again yesterday it became immediately clear just what a masterpiece the film is. As I remember from years ago it had me ready to almost jump through the screen and engage. If you haven't seen it in a while, watch it again. If you've never seen it you have no idea what you are missing.
Regarding the comments in another thread that a combat film based in reality is a hopeless endeavor, think again.
Also, the sniper in the bell tower (AC's avatar) sure took on a new meaning for me this time around. The film almost conjures up too much emotion.
Even though the plot of sending a Ranger unit on a special mission to rescue one guy isn't quite historically accurate, there really was a Private Ryan(actually Private Niland) and they did get him out of combat but not in the way portrayed, it is still a brilliant film.
It was one of the first films to realistically depict what events like the Normandy landing were actually like and I think it was an eye opener for most "non veterans" to have some kind of understanding of what war actually looks like.
Ironically it was the second film to show this kind of reality. The first was probably "When Trumpets Fade" which was an HBO film which debuted a few weeks prior to the release of SPR and was about the Battle of the Hurtgen Forest. But just as few people know anything about that battle, because only a few months later a much bigger battle happened at Bastogne, the film "When Trumpets Fade" was similarly overshadowed by "Saving Private Ryan."
Both are impressive films, one obviously having a greater budget regarding cast, effects and locations.
And perhaps more importantly, SPR directly laid the groundwork for Band of Brothers which might be the most significant telling of any WWII event. But it is still an incredible movie that I can watch anytime I find it showing and never be bored. In fact I just might have to watch the DVD again.
And if anyone is interested in the backstory.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Niland_brothers
Somehow never heard of "When Trumpets Fade" and very rarely go out of my way to watch any movie these days. That said I'm going to find and watch it very soon. Thanks Steyr.
montanadave
01-29-14, 15:53
And if anyone is interested in the backstory.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Niland_brothers
Another tragic story regarding brothers killed in WWII was the Sullivan brothers lost when the USS Juneau sank in November of 1942 following a naval battle off Guadalcanal. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sullivan_brothers
They made a movie back when but it seems like it would make a riveting tale if done in the manner of SPR.
Somehow never heard of "When Trumpets Fade" and very rarely go out of my way to watch any movie these days. That said I'm going to find and watch it very soon. Thanks Steyr.
You can grab a used copy in VG condition for about $8 shipped on Amazon.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/6305161941/sr=1-1/qid=1391032822/ref=olp_product_details?ie=UTF8&me=&qid=1391032822&seller=&sr=1-1
Don't let me build it up too much, if you go in expecting a HBO "made for TV" movie to be as good as SPR, especially with production values you will be disappointed. But I think you'll be able to appreciate this film.
Another tragic story regarding brothers killed in WWII was the Sullivan brothers lost when the USS Juneau sank in November of 1942 following a naval battle off Guadalcanal. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sullivan_brothers
They made a movie back when but it seems like it would make a riveting tale if done in the manner of SPR.
Honestly, "The Fighting Sullivans" (1944) is still a kick in the gut. I amazed it was made and released during the war.
http://www.amazon.com/Fighting-Sullivans-Commemorative-Anne-Baxter/dp/B000BQ5J4A/ref=sr_1_1?s=movies-tv&ie=UTF8&qid=1391033030&sr=1-1&keywords=the+fighting+sullivans
Some of those old movies can be pretty rough, I still have trouble with "On Borrowed Time" (1939).
Due to spontaneously having watched a bit of it again yesterday it became immediately clear just what a masterpiece the film is. As I remember from years ago it had me ready to almost jump through the screen and engage. If you haven't seen it in a while, watch it again. If you've never seen it you have no idea what you are missing.
Regarding the comments in another thread that a combat film based in reality is a hopeless endeavor, think again.
Also, the sniper in the bell tower (AC's avatar) sure took on a new meaning for me this time around. The film almost conjures up too much emotion.
I had a moist eye when I saw it in the theater...
Moose-Knuckle
01-29-14, 16:32
Even though the plot of sending a Ranger unit on a special mission to rescue one guy isn't quite historically accurate, there really was a Private Ryan(actually Private Niland) and they did get him out of combat but not in the way portrayed, it is still a brilliant film.
It was one of the first films to realistically depict what events like the Normandy landing were actually like and I think it was an eye opener for most "non veterans" to have some kind of understanding of what war actually looks like.
Ironically it was the second film to show this kind of reality. The first was probably "When Trumpets Fade" which was an HBO film which debuted a few weeks prior to the release of SPR and was about the Battle of the Hurtgen Forest. But just as few people know anything about that battle, because only a few months later a much bigger battle happened at Bastogne, the film "When Trumpets Fade" was similarly overshadowed by "Saving Private Ryan."
Both are impressive films, one obviously having a greater budget regarding cast, effects and locations.
And perhaps more importantly, SPR directly laid the groundwork for Band of Brothers which might be the most significant telling of any WWII event. But it is still an incredible movie that I can watch anytime I find it showing and never be bored. In fact I just might have to watch the DVD again.
And if anyone is interested in the backstory.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Niland_brothers
I've owned When Trumpets Fade since it first came out on DVD. The main character is played by Ron Eldard, many here will recognize him from playing CW-4 Michael Durant in the film adaptation of Black Hawk Down.
I had a moist eye when I saw it in the theater...
Moist eye? Hell, I cried like a little bitch!
The D-Day landing was the most real and graphic portraying of that event I had ever seen. It was so intense to get some sense of what the hero's who took part in that operation went through. It made me think of my father's dad who died before I was born.
He was out of the war before Normandy but was at the invasion of Sicily and in Italy.
I think Band of Brothers deserves it's cult following and accolades, but I equally enjoyed The Pacific as I've got a deep respect and fascination for the island hopping Marines that fought against the Japanese.
No liberated cities, no welcoming civilians, no liberty in Paris, just boredom and terror.
Amazing men.
Moist eye? Hell, I cried like a little bitch!
The D-Day landing was the most real and graphic portraying of that event I had ever seen. It was so intense to get some sense of what the hero's who took part in that operation went through. It made me think of my father's dad who died before I was born.
He was out of the war before Normandy but was at the invasion of Sicily and in Italy.
You ought to hear it on my Home Theater! (with a calibrated and tuned SVS SUB) All I can say is the movie experience is nothing compared to a tuned, well set up home theater.
I own BOB, SPR & The Pacific on Blue Ray and the neighbors get a bit jumpy when any of them are playing. Great tributes to great men.
I think Band of Brothers deserves it's cult following and accolades, but I equally enjoyed The Pacific as I've got a deep respect and fascination for the island hopping Marines that fought against the Japanese.
No liberated cities, no welcoming civilians, no liberty in Paris, just boredom and terror.
Amazing men.
Given the choice I'd definitely rather be freezing my ass off in Bastogne rather than running around the malaria infested crapholes of the Pacific fighting a fanatical enemy in the heat. Those guys definitely don't get all the recognition they deserve.
That said, it took me a few viewings to completely warm up to the series. I think the main problem comes from compiling the works of three writers and three unique perspectives vs. the single work of an expert historian who can put everything into a big picture context while still telling individual stories.
If Ambrose had lived to interview those veterans and write their stories I think the result would have been dramatically improved. But at least their stories were told, many deserving men have already gone to their graves and few if any are aware of their deeds.
Given the choice I'd definitely rather be freezing my ass off in Bastogne rather than running around the malaria infested crapholes of the Pacific fighting a fanatical enemy in the heat. Those guys definitely don't get all the recognition they deserve.
That said, it took me a few viewings to completely warm up to the series. I think the main problem comes from compiling the works of three writers and three unique perspectives vs. the single work of an expert historian who can put everything into a big picture context while still telling individual stories.
If Ambrose had lived to interview those veterans and write their stories I think the result would have been dramatically improved. But at least their stories were told, many deserving men have already gone to their graves and few if any are aware of their deeds.
Indeed.
I was interested enough to seek out the books written by many of the men in the series, particularly, Eugene Sledge, Sidney Philips and Robert Leckie.
Of them, I think that Sledge's book, "With the old breed" was the best and helped to tie in some of the things seen in the series, for me anyway.
I think part of the problem is how it jumps around to different parts of the Pacific theatre trying to follow these specific men. For someone who's NOT a pacific war enthusiast, it would be somewhat confusing and hard to follow. Also, by selecting these men to follow, the viewer is left without seeing certain battles that were pivotal or otherwise have interesting historical value, such as Tarawa and Saipan.
Still, I thoroughly enjoy the series, as much or more than BoB.
My grandfather was 6th Marines, landed on Iwo for sure and also Guadalcanal and Saipan if I remember correctly. Sadly he died in '83. His Purple Heart was stolen from my grandmother's house about ten years ago by a local drug addict burglar. All kinds of missed opportunity there, can't imagine what it would be like to hear his accounts today. I'd be spellbound.
My grandfather was 6th Marines, landed on Iwo for sure and also Guadalcanal and Saipan if I remember correctly. Sadly he died in '83. His Purple Heart was stolen from my grandmother's house about ten years ago by a local drug addict burglar. All kinds of missed opportunity there, can't imagine what it would be like to hear his accounts today. I'd be spellbound.
I know your pain.
Thankfully before my father passed away he secured my Grandfathers medals, wings and similar items. But thieves got my Grandfathers 1911 and a few other significant things. Worst of all were those items that simply got lost in the packrat clutter my Grandmother turned the house into after my Grandfather passed.
Back around 1984 I remember my Grandfather showing me his "orders" for the Ploesti raid. I was enough of a student of WWII history to know the significance of that raid and it was the first time I was made aware that my Grandfather was involved. I also knew those "orders" shouldn't exist as you really weren't supposed to keep such things. For all I know they were the ONLY surviving orders for that raid that weren't destroyed.
I knew where my Grandfather kept them, and after the funeral I went directly to that place to secure them but they weren't there. Of course my Grandmother moved lots of things around to make room for the metric ton of garage sale junk she packed into the house every week. Not sure what it is about people who experienced the Depression and their psychological need to buy useless junk and fill their house up with it, but my Grandmother had it pretty bad.
Thankfully I have my grandfathers wings, medals and such but I sure would love to have his 1911 and those "orders."
Back around 1984 I remember my Grandfather showing me his "orders" for the Ploesti raid. I was enough of a student of WWII history to know the significance of that raid and it was the first time I was made aware that my Grandfather was involved. I also knew those "orders" shouldn't exist as you really weren't supposed to keep such things. For all I know they were the ONLY surviving orders for that raid that weren't destroyed.
I knew where my Grandfather kept them, and after the funeral I went directly to that place to secure them but they weren't there.
Knowing you as we do that is indeed quite a loss. Can't imagine them having fallen into better hands. Still you have a good bit more than I, which is now nothing but fading memories. Point I guess is don't feel too bad about it.
SeriousStudent
01-29-14, 20:58
Yes, I can't see Barry Pepper's picture without thinking of our absent friend.
Steyr, thanks for the movie recommendation. I've got a copy inbound now.
Safetyhit, my respects to your grandfather. I've got sand from one of the invasion beaches at Iwo Jima, and dirt from the top of Mt Suribachi. We stopped there on a float coming back from the Philippines. I'm sorry to hear you no longer possess his decorations. I have my father's dolphins from his time in WWII Pacific submarines, and they are a treasured possession.
Knowing you as we do that is indeed quite a loss. Can't imagine them having fallen into better hands. Still you have a good bit more than I, which is now nothing but fading memories. Point I guess is don't feel too bad about it.
I do understand I was fortunate in many ways. I was told stories of his experiences firsthand that he didn't tell to his children. Sadly my Grandmother always prevented him from telling them at the table saying "nobody wants to hear about the war."
Another great experience I had was when I was a kid (12-14 years old) visiting my Grandparents during the summer, Marshalltown, Iowa had the Iowa Veterans Home and I used to go there because they had a great library. Didn't take much to get one of the residents (at the time almost exclusively WWII vets) to notice the only kid in the building and start sharing their stories.
Looking back, I get the sense that I might have been the only person who ever showed any interest in their experiences. I only wish I had logged a few and written them down. But I was a kid and didn't have that kind of maturity, I was simply hearing cool stories about the war. All the same I'm glad I made the effort, every veteran deserves to tell their tale and have it known.
Safetyhit, my respects to your grandfather. I've got sand from one of the invasion beaches at Iwo Jima, and dirt from the top of Mt Suribachi. We stopped there on a float coming back from the Philippines. I'm sorry to hear you no longer possess his decorations. I have my father's dolphins from his time in WWII Pacific submarines, and they are a treasured possession.
Indeed. Iwo Jima, Guadalcanal and Saipan were all no joke. Surviving any one of those is impressive. I'd rather be fighting the Waffen SS in the snow any day.
Indeed. Iwo Jima, Guadalcanal and Saipan were all no joke. Surviving any one of those is impressive. I'd rather be fighting the Waffen SS in the snow any day.
Sort of funny in a way because the guys who fought in the frigid European winters would have probably jumped at the chance to switch places with the guys doing the same on the tropical islands.
Yes, I can't see Barry Pepper's picture without thinking of our absent friend.
Steyr, thanks for the movie recommendation. I've got a copy inbound now.
Safetyhit, my respects to your grandfather. I've got sand from one of the invasion beaches at Iwo Jima, and dirt from the top of Mt Suribachi. We stopped there on a float coming back from the Philippines. I'm sorry to hear you no longer possess his decorations. I have my father's dolphins from his time in WWII Pacific submarines, and they are a treasured possession.
Standing on Iwo would simply overwhelm me. Almost certainly would be lost in some sort of daze, completely detached from reality during the moment. Same with a visit to Normandy beach. Again utterly and totally lost to the real world during that time, would take being tied to a few horses to get me to leave.
As a teenager I sailed on a 42' boat just off the northern coast of France while heading from Kiel (Germany) to The Isle Of Wright. If I did the same today I'd almost certainly have grabbed a life preserver and swam to shore completely ignoring any and all consequence.
SeriousStudent
01-29-14, 22:52
Standing on Iwo would simply overwhelm me. Almost certainly would be lost in some sort of daze, completely detached from reality during the moment.
........
It was a somber day, to be sure. There was still a lot of metal laying around, and you had to watch out for old ordinance. The guy that was our guide was a Coast Guard petty officer from the LORAN station, and a very nice fellow. He knew all the Medal of Honor citations, and where they occurred. Walking the same ground where a Medal of Honor recipient fought, and reading their citation aloud is an extraordinarily humbling thing. Most of us were just speechless - lost in our thoughts, examining the terrain. I could only pray silently.
A good buddy of mine is a member on this board, and was actually on the same float, although we did not know each other at the time. He took a different ship back to Okinawa, since he wanted to get back there quicker. They did not stop at Iwo. He regrets that to this day.
Sort of funny in a way because the guys who fought in the frigid European winters would have probably jumped at the chance to switch places with the guys doing the same on the tropical islands.
The grass is always greener.
I've done Iowa blizzards and I've done brutal Florida summers. I'll take the cold any day. Add the bugs, malaria and dysentery and the choice get's even easier. You don't even want to know about tropical rats on an island with week old dead bodies everywhere. Of course even a perfect fall day can really suck when people are shooting at you and shelling your line.
Bout the only thing I can think of worse than both theaters would be the Middle East where it's a desert that is hotter than anything you've ever experienced but it also still snows.
It was a somber day, to be sure. There was still a lot of metal laying around, and you had to watch out for old ordinance. The guy that was our guide was a Coast Guard petty officer from the LORAN station, and a very nice fellow. He knew all the Medal of Honor citations, and where they occurred. Walking the same ground where a Medal of Honor recipient fought, and reading their citation aloud is an extraordinarily humbling thing. Most of us were just speechless - lost in our thoughts, examining the terrain. I could only pray silently.
A good buddy of mine is a member on this board, and was actually on the same float, although we did not know each other at the time. He took a different ship back to Okinawa, since he wanted to get back there quicker. They did not stop at Iwo. He regrets that to this day.
To this day, this is the little guy who even stood out among the giants when it came to MOHs.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Lucas
I think he wins the Holy Shit OMFG award for all time. If anyone has a better candidate who was still alive to wear the decoration I'd like to know their story.
To this day, this is the little guy who even stood out among the giants when it came to MOHs.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Lucas
I think he wins the Holy Shit OMFG award for all time. If anyone has a better candidate who was still alive to wear the decoration I'd like to know their story.
Audie Murphy comes to mind as a close competitor. His story is almost beyond belief.
Audie Murphy comes to mind as a close competitor. His story is almost beyond belief.
Audie Murphy had big brass ones for sure, but he didn't get blown the hell up because he jumped on two grenades. Not trying to take anything away from Murphy, IIRC he is still the most decorated soldier in US history and things like that don't happen by accident. Certainly the actions of Murphy that day probably saved more lives but the fact that Lucas survived at all is kinda amazing.
Moose-Knuckle
01-30-14, 01:04
The D-Day landing was the most real and graphic portraying of that event I had ever seen. It was so intense to get some sense of what the hero's who took part in that operation went through.
Veterans of that day said of SPR that the only thing missing was the smell.
My great uncle P G Frazier was a Sergeant in Company B of the 359th Infantry Regiment of the 90th Infantry Division (aka Tough 'Obmres). The Regiment landed at Utah Beach on June 6th, 1944 around 18:30 hours. He was a Tec 4 (Radioman) and was only 159lbs at the time of his voluntary enlistment. I cannot even begin to fathom what it must have been like to step off the ramp into that surf amidst MG-42 fire being weighed down by his infantry kit to include an M1 and a 30lb SCR-300 field radio. He lived through all of that, we lost him in 2006. While they were liberating Holland he took down a Nazi swallow-tailed banner that was hanging from a school house. My grandmother passed that down to me. It is one of my most treasured possessions.
ShortytheFirefighter
01-30-14, 15:00
Audie Murphy had big brass ones for sure, but he didn't get blown the hell up because he jumped on two grenades. Not trying to take anything away from Murphy, IIRC he is still the most decorated soldier in US history and things like that don't happen by accident. Certainly the actions of Murphy that day probably saved more lives but the fact that Lucas survived at all is kinda amazing.
It should also be noted that Jack Lewis went on to become a Paratrooper in the 82nd Airborne almost 20 years later to get over his fear of heights and survived a jump where both of his 'chutes failed to open. It finally took cancer to kill him almost 6 years ago.
My Grandfather and Great Uncle were both Marines in WWII, my Grandfather helped build Guantanamo and my Great Uncle served in the Pacific Theater. When my cousin Brock (his Grandson) and I both enlisted in the Marines he sat both of us down and talked to us about our decision and some of his experiences. Not to scare us off, but to let us know the gravity of our decisions. Brock graduated the week I got to MCRD San Diego, I ended up leaving a few weeks later after being injured in training. Bob (my Great Uncle) was a fireball right to the end, I had a chance to visit him in the hospital and he was giving the nurses hell right up until the end. Watching The Pacific and then remembering the things he told me gave me chills, and really cemented the respect and admiration I have for anyone of that generation who sacrificed so much for those of us who came afterwards.
Cincinnatus
01-30-14, 15:31
Speaking of awesome war movies and Audie Murphy, watch To Hell and Back, and read the book. Outstanding.
Also, Porkchop Hill is very well done.
As for the Pacific, I loved the books it was drawn from, but the portrayal of the main characters in the film bothered me; especially Basillone. They made him into some teenager in attitude and appearance, etc. Basillone was a man's man who'd grown up in the depression, was macho as hell, and had already done a stint in the Army before going into the Corps. What he did at Guadalcanal is astonishing; especially the part about hip firing a .30 Browning into ranks of charging Japs. He was a hard-charging Marine Corps sergeant who could rip you up one side and down the other with the stentorian iron lungs of a barking, pissed-off Great Dane. His portrayal in the film made him staggeringly less than that.
A few years ago while in France I was able to visit the new D Day museum, as well as Pont du Hoc, Omaha beach, and the American Cemetery/Memorial at Normandy. It was a chilly, rainy day, and standing there at the Ranger memorial looking at the cliffs, or on the beaches, really brought a true perspective on how courageous those men were who made that assault, and how truly difficult it must have been to accomplish.
At Pont du Hoc they have not filled in the craters for the most part. They have smoothed out with time, and are now covered in grass, but they are still obvious for what they are. The bunkers are also still there, and still bear the scars of the fighting. When you stand there at the Ranger Monument, you can look and see Utah and Omaha beaches to either side in the distance.
Visiting the Cemetery was very stirring as well, especially considering the remains of the majority of the men who fell there were repatriated to the US following the war. You start to understand just how many died in that struggle. There is also a very good museum there as well. I really recommend taking any chance you get to visit these sites.
My father was a mortar crewman with the 102nd cavalry recon squadron in northern Europe. He was wounded in November 1944 & evacuated. He would never talk about it.
He would never talk about it.
That is unfortunate, but perhaps highly understandable since we were neither him nor there to see what he saw. Hats off to both your father and Shorty's courageous relatives. Your's too Moose.
I really recommend taking any chance you get to visit these sites.
How very fortunate you are to have done so. Not only would I like to visit, ideally (heavy emphasis on "ideally") I'd buy a nearby property and spend all of my spare time while routinely vacationing in France (more idealism, only pertaining to the beaches and their suburbs of course since I have no interest in Paris whatsoever), strolling and even carefully excavating areas of the beaches (with local consent). It would be a high beyond the capability of any drug created by man thus far.
Somehow never heard of "When Trumpets Fade" and very rarely go out of my way to watch any movie these days. That said I'm going to find and watch it very soon. Thanks Steyr.
You can watch it on Youtube. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DoE6Hq9sNKc
montanadave
01-30-14, 18:46
You can watch it on Youtube. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DoE6Hq9sNKc
Nice! Thanks for the link.
How very fortunate you are to have done so. Not only would I like to visit, ideally (heavy emphasis on "ideally") I'd buy a nearby property and spend all of my spare time while routinely vacationing in France (more idealism, only pertaining to the beaches and their suburbs of course since I have no interest in Paris whatsoever), strolling and even carefully excavating areas of the beaches (with local consent). It would be a high beyond the capability of any drug created by man thus far.
I am lucky. My wife really wanted to go to France, and I said okay, as long as Normandy was part of the plans. She was almost as enthusiastic about it as I was, and she helped plan a great deal of the trip. I am hoping to make it back sometime sooner than later.
And Paris is not all bad, some of the tourist stuff is actually okay, and there is a tremendous amount of history there. The Louvre is amazing. It was however, really great to be able to go and see where such an important part of history took place.
Nice! Thanks for the link.
You bet. Just finished watching it, and I have one question, did they mistakenly use the music score from another movie? At very tense or dramatic sequences, it sounded like the score from a Pink Panther film.
PA PATRIOT
01-30-14, 19:45
I was shopping a few weeks ago and came across a local store called "FYE" who sells a lots of video's especially box set. Sitting there was Saving Private Ryan, Band of Brothers and the Pacific all in Blue Ray, brand new and cheap. Pacific and BOB was 24.99 each and SPR was 12.99 so I jumped on all three.
On a side note I was able to meet Maj. Richard "Dick" Winters in early 2003 just outside Hershey PA. and was later able to have a un-opened boxed series sighed by him and a few years later by the actor Damian Lewis who portrayed Lt. Winters in the series. It's one of the few items I will never sell just because I respect the man so much.
And Paris is not all bad, some of the tourist stuff is actually okay, and there is a tremendous amount of history there. The Louvre is amazing. It was however, really great to be able to go and see where such an important part of history took place.
You've exposed me, perhaps my wording was a little exaggerated. I would, in theory, also like to see Paris, so long as like you I take in the historical and asthetic aspects as opposed the often pompous populace. But heck, many can say the same about NYC which is another place ironically just 90 minutes away that I try to avoid like the plague.
For those who are also fascinated by "then and now" photos from the war and today. http://home.scarlet.be/~sh446368/pics_then_and_now.htm
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