View Full Version : HK45c- SA/DA or LEM?
OK, I've sold a few handguns that I'm just not fond of anymore & I'm going for one of my grail guns- a HK45c.
What's the verdict on triggers; LEM vs SA/DA? I have a P30 V3 w/decock that I love, but it took quite a while to get used to the trigger. Is the LEM going to be a world of difference, or should I go with the SA/DA w/safety? Also, I'm guessing that the SA/DA w/safety can be carried cocked & locked like my 1911s, or isn't that recommended with the HK?
DA/SA with safety can be carried cocked and locked.
Im a fan of the Light LEM setup (except for the longish reset). If you already have another HK in DA/SA however, you may wish to keep it similar to that setup.
Myrideishot
01-30-14, 12:24
I've been going back and forth on this too. I want to get a P30 but don't know whether to get the p30 or p30s, and da/sa or lem. I can't find a range around here to rent either at so it is going to end up being a blind decision.
If I were in your shoes, I would probably get a DA/SA gun in order to be as similar as possible to your P30. If you decide later that you would like a LEM set up, you can easily convert one or both of the pistols.
If I were in your shoes, I would probably get a DA/SA gun in order to be as similar as possible to your P30. If you decide later that you would like a LEM set up, you can easily convert one or both of the pistols.
You canNOT convert a P30 DA/SA to LEM.
I like the Light LEM as well. I have a P30 in DA/SA and LLEM. Prefer the LLEM for carry.
You canNOT convert a P30 DA/SA to LEM.
Thanks for the correction... My HK fu is weak this afternoon.
bullitt5172
01-30-14, 13:21
You canNOT convert a P30 DA/SA to LEM.
I like the Light LEM as well. I have a P30 in DA/SA and LLEM. Prefer the LLEM for carry.
According to HKPro, you can convert a V3 to a V1..I've read you can't go the other way. The LEM slide does not have a cutout for the decocker. I have a LEM P30 and it's much better IMO than the DA/SA setup.
I have sold two P2000Sk pistols, both were LEM, one in .40 and one in 9mm. Really liked the pistols I just could not warm up to LEM. My USPc .40 V1 "AF" date code is a keeper and for me the DA/SA just works. YMMV
I've got 4 HK's A P-7, P-2000,P-30, HK45ct...All but the P-7 are light LEM.. IMO, the Light LEM is probably the best trigger HK offers, Now if the parts from HK ever make it to the U.S. there will be a LEM with a reduced pre travel, it'll reduce the trigger's pre travel by about 3/16"... This should be a improvement. Now if only HK could be talked into reducing the reset by about half what it is now..;) OP, If you've never shot a LEM, I'd suggest that you find one to try first.. I'll admit, the LEM isn't for everyone.. The LEM trigger seems to be one of those love it, or hate it things, with little room in between. The bright side here is, the HK45c can be converted to LEM, and can be converted back to DA/SA, if you decide it isn't for you...A LEM kit from HKUSA, If I remember correctly, should be about $110 if you want to convert it yourself..
I use the light LEM in my HK45c, was able to install it myself. It is certainly not like working on a Glock so be ready to work slowly and pay attention to detail in switching the trigger components. In the end I find that the work was worth it. The switch from the DA/SA to light LEM gives a nice consistent trigger pull, not the best reset depending on what you are used to but a very reasonable trigger weight (I haven't measured the trigger weight but I would ballpark it at 4lbs). Best of luck with the decision.
cpoth
warpedcamshaft
01-30-14, 18:57
OK, I've sold a few handguns that I'm just not fond of anymore & I'm going for one of my grail guns- a HK45c.
What's the verdict on triggers; LEM vs SA/DA? I have a P30 V3 w/decock that I love, but it took quite a while to get used to the trigger. Is the LEM going to be a world of difference, or should I go with the SA/DA w/safety? Also, I'm guessing that the SA/DA w/safety can be carried cocked & locked like my 1911s, or isn't that recommended with the HK?
I've spent a good amount of time with both, and I prefer the LEM.
That being said... If you put in the time on either system, either works fairly well... However, I don't consider either to be great triggers... but both are usable.
According to HKPro, you can convert a V3 to a V1..I've read you can't go the other way. The LEM slide does not have a cutout for the decocker. I have a LEM P30 and it's much better IMO than the DA/SA setup.
Ok, let me backtrack a little. I think you can do it, but HK doesn't recommend it, they WON'T do it if you send the gun in, and they won't warrant it. I think you have to buy a kit for a different gun (HK45 maybe) to do so as there is no P30 kit available. I've not seen anyone do it on a P30 (HK45 & HK45c are simple) either.
While in theory I think you can finagle it, why risk it on a carry/hd gun?
Thanks everyone for the input.
I think I'm going to go for the DA/SA Tactical & I think I need to put an order in to Grant tomorrow, before I change my mind.
Ok, let me backtrack a little. I think you can do it, but HK doesn't recommend it, they WON'T do it if you send the gun in, and they won't warrant it. I think you have to buy a kit for a different gun (HK45 maybe) to do so as there is no P30 kit available. I've not seen anyone do it on a P30 (HK45 & HK45c are simple) either.
While in theory I think you can finagle it, why risk it on a carry/hd gun?
I'm pretty sure you can do it, It'll leave a small open area in the back of the slide/frame where the decocker was, but I'm sure it could be done. I seem to remember a number of people over at HK pro forums have done it successfully. You're right though, this is not a conversion that's in any way supported by HK.. I agree why do it, If one wants a P-30, P-2000 LEM, then buy one in LEM....
I'd go LEM...
The P30S, even when cocked and locked is not the greatest as you can hit the decocker when drawing from the holster. You need to make sure your thumb clears the back of the slide. I was used to indexing on the body shield of the holster prior to drawing / placing my thumb on the safety I found my self decocking the pistol pretty often until I got more reps in with the gun.
HK's DA/SA leaves a lot to be desired so I vote light LEM in the P30.
What I really liked was the P30LS in light LEM. That's worked out pretty well for me, but they are hard to find from a previous limited import.
You canNOT convert a P30 DA/SA to LEM.
Yes, you can. I am 100% sure that it can be done mechanically. But that doesn't mean you can source the parts and expertise needed to do it.
I like my P30 light LEM V1 much more than when it was DA V3 because I prefer the concept of the same trigger pull on each shot.
youreacrab
02-16-14, 16:06
I vote LEM too. The safety/decocker on the same lever kills it for me.
BOOSTjunkie
02-16-14, 18:09
trying to transition from glocks to an hk45c i found that when i installed the LEM it was a more familiar feel. depends on what you are used to.
Go LEM, or you'll regret it.
I've had various HK handguns and no matter how you put it, DA/SA in those guns is shit. I'm not bashing HK but their DA/SA trigger leaves much to be desired. I have compared the HK45, USP .45, USP .45T to Sig DA/SA handguns and Sig has always come out on top. I am only speaking of triggers, nothing else.
That being said, my HK45c w/ light LEM is a much better and more pleasant handgun to shoot. I have found that the trigger pull of the Light LEM is very consistent and breaks smoothly every time. It's a shame that you have to pay extra for a trigger that should be installed in the first place IMO.
I've bought several HKs---all DA/SA including the 45C, P30S in 9mm as well as a P2000 9mm---I am used to the DA/SA trigger system and actually feel the trigger ain't that bad compared to what you read on the internet. I also have many other pistols, revolvers, SA revolvers, 1911 types so I am used to switching trigger systems. My house guns are two HK USPf 9mm pistols with DA/SA triggers---it's all good...
If you do decide to go with DA/SA, you can always change it later on. However, the LEM kit is not always readily available so you do have to be patient.
According to HKPro, you can convert a V3 to a V1..I've read you can't go the other way. The LEM slide does not have a cutout for the decocker. I have a LEM P30 and it's much better IMO than the DA/SA setup.
Completely agree. The only HKs for me are the ones with LEM/light LEM.
vereceleritas
02-20-14, 08:48
I owned a P30LS V1 light LEM and I currently own a HK45 and HK45C which I converted to light LEM. The reset on the P30LS LEM was noticeably longer than the HK45 LEM. There's enough of a difference that I actually don't consider them to be comparable. The HK45 LEM is superior in my opinion. I'm also not a fan of HK's safety lever. It's shaped in a such a way that I couldn't comfortably ride the safety with my thumb while shooting like I would do with a 1911 or my Hi-Power. I had to shoot with my thumb under the safety, which was enough reason for me to switch to LEM.
LEM definitely has a learning curve and its not for everyone. I find that the long take up actually lends itself well for accurate long range shots (20+ yards), almost like a two stage trigger with a very long first stage. Fast follow up shots at close range however, took a lot of practice for me. YMMV of course.
Since you have a DA/SA P30 I would recommend sticking with DA/SA to keep to the same trigger system across your pistols. You can always convert to LEM at you leisure if you change your mind.
Just for the record...I have a P30S that I converted to the Light LEM w/ heavy TRS. The parts are listed to do this on HKPro. Because of this my P30 is a LEM with safety lever; this gun is also my training/dry fire gun with another P30 LEM (that I bought as such) for my carry/competing gun. It can be done with the right parts and someone with a little know how.
That being said, the reason I converted it is like others have said, the DA/SA on HKs just aren't nearly as good as other firearms such as Sig and CZ. I have just shy of 6,000rds through the converted P30 with only one stoppage. I would HIGHLY recommend LEM over any other variant on HK, but that is just me. I think this trigger, while an adjustment period does need to happen, is an absolute joy to shoot. My splits are just as good as they were with Glock after copious amounts of dry and live-fire.
Last, but not least, I have spoken with Gray Guns about upcoming P30 parts/updates as I called inquiring about their action packages. They do see a need/hole in the market regarding the P30 and its growing popularity. They are actually working on a flat trigger, a reduced travel trigger, and a magwell that are all steel. These parts will hopefully see the light of day by the end of the year.
Hopefully this helps as I am a straight up P30 fan and convert; do get your hands on a LEM variant though as it is hit or miss with your needs/preferences.
I have both and like both. Not difficult to go back and forth in my experience. Its a very personal preference as this thread has shown.
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