View Full Version : Model 727 pics?
Anyone here build a 727 clone? (A2 upper with M4 barrel) If so, I'd like to see pics of the '1st' M4s.
sniperfrog
05-21-08, 19:01
The 727s that I used back in the day actually had 16" barrels. I remember comparing one to the then new M4 and the M4 barrel was shorter. Ours were the "NR 727".
The 727s that I used back in the day actually had 16" barrels. I remember comparing one to the then new M4 and the M4 barrel was shorter. Ours were the "NR 727".
A Colt 727 uses a 14.5" barrel.
Pic from Colt back in the day.
http://www.gunsnet.net/album/data//500/727.JPG
And a pic of my version of one. Factory 16" M4 barrel Colt.
http://www.gunsnet.net/album/data//500/medium/COLTM4A2.JPG
sniperfrog
05-22-08, 20:05
Back in the day, meaning 1994, when I was in the Navy, we had NR727s and they had 16" barrels. I remember in Somalia comparing ours to the SF guys' M4s that they had just got. Our barrels were about an inch and a half longer. Now maybe we had some special run of 727s and thats why they had the "NR" (Navy Rifle) designation.
Back in the day, meaning 1994, when I was in the Navy, we had NR727s and they had 16" barrels. I remember in Somalia comparing ours to the SF guys' M4s that they had just got. Our barrels were about an inch and a half longer. Now maybe we had some special run of 727s and thats why they had the "NR" (Navy Rifle) designation.
They were not a 727.
They were a frankengun.
When were you in Somalia? During BHD? The M4 didn't exist then.
sniperfrog
05-23-08, 20:49
They were not a 727.
They were a frankengun.
When were you in Somalia? During BHD? The M4 didn't exist then.
OK, I see we have an internet expert. Yeah, I was in Somalia in February-May of '94. I was with SEAL Team 2 at the time and yes there were M4s then. The 5th Group guys had just got them. The SEAL Teams did not buy Frankenguns. I have been in the armory when brand new boxes of NR727s came in. We were living with the SF guys in Mogadishu and I remember them showing us there new M4s with 4x ACOGs on top. The SEAL Teams didn't get the M4 until about a year or so later. And no, I wasn't there for BHD, I got there a few months later with the 24th MEU. BHD happened in October of '93. The only thing I can think of is that my rifle was used when I got it. Perhaps the guys at Crane put new uppers or new barrels on them when they were refurbished. So maybe that would make it an official Crane built frankengun, I don't know. I just remember looking at the M4s and noticing that it had a shorter barrel then the 727 that I had.
OK, I see we have an internet expert. Yeah, I was in Somalia in February-May of '94. I was with SEAL Team 2 at the time and yes there were M4s then. The 5th Group guys had just got them. The SEAL Teams did not buy Frankenguns. I have been in the armory when brand new boxes of NR727s came in. We were living with the SF guys in Mogadishu and I remember them showing us there new M4s with 4x ACOGs on top. The SEAL Teams didn't get the M4 until about a year or so later. And no, I wasn't there for BHD, I got there a few months later with the 24th MEU. BHD happened in October of '93. The only thing I can think of is that my rifle was used when I got it. Perhaps the guys at Crane put new uppers or new barrels on them when they were refurbished. So maybe that would make it an official Crane built frankengun, I don't know. I just remember looking at the M4s and noticing that it had a shorter barrel then the 727 that I had.
They were a put together gun.
NR727 is a name that somebody made up at some point in the existance of the gun you describe.
It isn't a real 727.
sniperfrog
05-24-08, 18:20
The designation "NR727" was roll marked on the side of the gun right where all the designations go. It wasn't something that was made up. All of our MP5s were designated MP5N, "N" meaning Navy. All the 727s that I saw in my platoons had the same length barrel. I will try and dig up some pictures that I have somewhere and post them. I would say that if entire SEAL Teams had carbines with "NR727" on the side then I would say it was a "real 727". The SEAL Teams are a small unit compared to the rest of the military so it is possible that Colt made small runs of carbines with the NR designation for us.
I asked a buddy of mine that I served with and he couldn't remember if there was a difference in barrel length between the M4 and our 727s so I could be wrong but I am not sure why I thought the 727 had a longer barrel. Unless as I said earlier my upper was replaced with a 16" model. But it was many moons ago so I can't say for sure. Darn you, you now have me second guessing myself!
The designation "NR727" was roll marked on the side of the gun right where all the designations go. It wasn't something that was made up. All of our MP5s were designated MP5N, "N" meaning Navy. All the 727s that I saw in my platoons had the same length barrel. I will try and dig up some pictures that I have somewhere and post them. I would say that if entire SEAL Teams had carbines with "NR727" on the side then I would say it was a "real 727". The SEAL Teams are a small unit compared to the rest of the military so it is possible that Colt made small runs of carbines with the NR designation for us.
I asked a buddy of mine that I served with and he couldn't remember if there was a difference in barrel length between the M4 and our 727s so I could be wrong but I am not sure why I thought the 727 had a longer barrel. Unless as I said earlier my upper was replaced with a 16" model. But it was many moons ago so I can't say for sure. Darn you, you now have me second guessing myself!
A 727 uses a generic Colt commercial lower marked M16A2 with no US Property markings.
sniperfrog
05-25-08, 19:02
As a BUD/S student in 91/92' I had a 14.5" 727, and was issued the same at the Team soon after. These were rollmarked m16a2 carbine, but had F/A & S/A only.. no burst.
I think we got the flattops late 94' but I'm not sure..... Up until then i had been running an Armson OEG on the 727 carry handle. It was much more rugged than that era of Aimpoints.
I have never seen a 16" m4 barrel on a military gun (bought through usual channels). NSW did have some odd flash hider/suppresor combos that may have made the barrel appear longer w/o the can.
Dano,
I could have sworn that they were rollmarked NR727 right in front of the serial number (eg: NR727 xxxxxx), along with the M16A2 carbine marking. I know thats what everyone called them. I dug up some pictures and it looks like I was wrong about the barrel length. I was sure I compared them and the M4 had a shorter barrel. Maybe I dreamt that. Anyway, I went through BUD/s in '92. We used M16A1s in BUD/s. I didn't get a carbine until I got to Two. We didn't start getting M4 flat tops until around '95. What Team were you with?
Dano,
I could have sworn that they were rollmarked NR727 right in front of the serial number (eg: NR727 xxxxxx), along with the M16A2 carbine marking. I know thats what everyone called them. I dug up some pictures and it looks like I was wrong about the barrel length. I was sure I compared them and the M4 had a shorter barrel. Maybe I dreamt that. Anyway, I went through BUD/s in '92. We used M16A1s in BUD/s. I didn't get a carbine until I got to Two. We didn't start getting M4 flat tops until around '95. What Team were you with?
Can you post those pictures?
Robb Jensen
05-25-08, 21:12
These USMC Force Recon guys seen to have 727/original M4 spec guns (same as XM4 which I shot at Quantico in the 1980's with my dad, Maj Muth and LtCol Lutz).
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v408/gotm4/FORCE_RECON_M4M203_PATROL_GREEN.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v408/gotm4/300px-USMC_Force_Recon_two_Marines_.jpg
http://www.retroblackrifle.com/sitebuilder/images/Slide26-484x359.jpg
http://www.retroblackrifle.com/sitebuilder/images/USAF_2000_TACP-327x385.jpg
sniperfrog
05-26-08, 13:44
I'm not sure how to post pics. The pictures I have are not great detail but you can still see the rifles. As soon as I can figure it out I'll put a couple up.
edit: My freakin' scanner won't scan. Anyway, I've been out for 9 years now so my memory of these matters sucks. Just disregard everything I posted earlier.
Does the 727 just have regular feed ramps?
Hey, I was issued one of those, straight from Colt, when I was in Haiti with the 25th ID.
Only thing I remember was it was marked M16a2 carbine. I remember because I was arguing with the supply sgt, that they were M4's, then he pulled one out of the box, and it was marked M16a2 Carbine, I happily took it anyway.
Bob
http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d33/d8006/Model723.jpg
http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d33/d8006/723withDelta2.jpg
Oooops 727--not 723. Subconsciously looking for an excuse to use my 723 porn from that era.
Does the 727 just have regular feed ramps?
They have extended feedramps. Any carbine made after about 1990 has extended feedramps.
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