Mayflower UW Gen IV vs Haley D3

[jrsteensen]

Currently have the UW Gen IV but find it is a little large for me mounted on my APC. Haven't been able to find a good list of pros/cons comparing the rigs. Not interested in chest mounted pistol carry. I do need to free up some real estate for 40mm - as a SL, I have a 203 now, and need to find some room for a popflare and smoke and a couple frags. I'm a small guy, with a S/M APC with the SM1 cummerbund.

[eggroll]

it all depends on how the design pans out... when I came up up with the planform for the VOCR, the point was to deliver a low profile/cross-section harness to carry a modicum of gear without inhibiting range of motion. Something I felt that was awry with the MRD UWGIV, but therein lies the difference, the VOCR and D3 variation were NOT meant to be outright LBE replacements whereas the UW rigs were GTG as a lighterweight replacement for outright LBE.

The footprint is 6.5" x 12" - and there are add-ons and additional customizations to extend the usability of the D3/VO platform like carrying up to 6 x 40mm, frags and other sundry happy supplies

[jrsteensen]

it all depends on how the design pans out... when I came up up with the planform for the VOCR, the point was to deliver a low profile/cross-section harness to carry a modicum of gear without inhibiting range of motion. Something I felt that was awry with the MRD UWGIV, but therein lies the difference, the VOCR and D3 variation were meant to be outright LBE replacements.

The footprint is 6.5" x 12" - and there are add-ons and additional customizations to extend the usability of the D3/VO platform like carrying up to 6 x 40mm, frags and other sundry happy supplies

Excellent info Eggroll. (As always.) Thank you. Quick question: Where can I find these add-ons and such?

[sua175]

Are you a infantry type squad leader? and if so why are you carrying a 40mm system? As a SL im guessing you also have to carry a MBITR or 152, so having a rig that can support a radio is pretty important. I would say that for dismounted infantry use the mayflower is a better choice for a chest rig. but I own and like both.

Here is options on how to run a ammo set up for you 320 assuming you are not humping a full 30 round combat load.

1. A tac tailor 12 round bandolier (great, fast, and non dedicated option)
2. Use lap armor/ groin armor to hold 3 or 4 rounds.
3. Use a drop leg platform to carry rounds.
4. You can also run a GP pouch like a saw or m60 pouch and just stuff as many 40mm as possible (not the most elegant but it works)

Hope this helps, I could probably help you more if I knew exactly what role/ job you are preforming.

as far as Smokes and pyros, run them in tertiary positions. I would only run one smoke as a SL and make my TL's carry one each as well. I always ran my smoke on the back left side of my cummerbund (im right handed). I had the same policy with signaling pyro as I did with smokes, I usually would run my pyro on the back of my carrier or in my yote or assault pack. But if you have a 203 then why not just carry 40mm signal rounds as they are smaller and lighter than the full size flares.

Frags I usually run (when I ran them) in some sort of GP pouch. I only ran 1 frag as a TL or SL and would only permit my dudes to run a maximum of 2.

[jrsteensen]

No, MP. So mostly mounted, but in my prior deployments were about 50/50 mounted/dismounted while OPCONed to Infantry units. Don't need to carry too many rounds, but a few HE and Smoke rounds. In the MP world, SL and TLs are issued 203s, each 3 man team has a gunner (SAW or 240B) and driver (M4).

I've never seen a 320 yet. I wonder when they will make it into non-division MP units.

[GTF425]

I've been running a Gen IV UW since late 2011. I was able to carry a PRC-152, HC white smoke, frag, spare 152 battery, GPS/protractor/map, 4x M4 mags, 2xCATs, multitool, flashlight, half a VS-17 panel, and spare batteries for PEQ-15/PVS-14 easily. I was a TL/SL at the time.

The UW will better fit your needs than the Haley chest rig. If you require additional MOLLE real estate for dedicated 40mm/medical, look into the 5.56 Hybrid from Mayflower.

*ETA: This is how I had it setup in early 2012. This was basically how it stayed.

http://i1219.photobucket.com/albums/dd421/GTF425/untitled2_zpsa106c6be.png

[sua175]

I know your not combat arms, here is some food for thought.

Once I had a ****ing brilliant SGTMAJ who thought that joe wasn't smart enough to run a 203 so he made TL's become the grenadier. The result was that all the TL's in the battalion were only running like 5 HEDP's at most because they didn't want to carry the weight. 5 rounds really isn't shit. So when this happen essentially the fire teams lost the capability of a grenadier. The least amount of rounds I would carry for a 40mm would be 10 HEDP. Lucky for us we got 320's and got to keep our 203's for we had twice the number or grenade launchers at our disposal if we so chose to use them (which in RC south was a good thing as Haj feared the 40mm). By the time we deployed all the platoon PSG's with half a brain had joe going back to being grenadiers.

When I worked for AWG I had access to a 320 standalone and would use the TT 12 round bandolier when I ran it as it allowed me to scale up and down fast as needed. I would run 10 HEDP and 2 smoke.

[GTF425]

To backup what sua175 is saying, I know you run things differently in the MP world, but in my opinion, the 203 is your primary weapon as a grenadier. Far too often it's treated like an add-on and is handed to TLs and, sometimes, even SLs because CoC's don't know how to employ it effectively. It's a vastly underused weapon in my experience and within 400m is an absolute game changer if used properly.

You give it to a Joe, train them, and they engage with it. Stand alone 320 is the best way to go because it allows their M4 to still be a manageable weight for prolonged firefights and long dismounted patrols. A 9lb M4 isn't bad at all to shoulder and fire, but a 13lb with a giant hunk of aluminum and plastic under the rail is a bitch.

Hopefully you get the 320 or will have access to some TPE when you get in theater. It's a great weapon system.

[jrsteensen]

I know your not combat arms, here is some food for thought.

Once I had a ****ing brilliant SGTMAJ who thought that joe wasn't smart enough to run a 203 so he made TL's become the grenadier. The result was that all the TL's in the battalion were only running like 5 HEDP's at most because they didn't want to carry the weight. 5 rounds really isn't shit. So when this happen essentially the fire teams lost the capability of a grenadier. The least amount of rounds I would carry for a 40mm would be 10 HEDP. Lucky for us we got 320's and got to keep our 203's for we had twice the number or grenade launchers at our disposal if we so chose to use them (which in RC south was a good thing as Haj feared the 40mm). By the time we deployed all the platoon PSG's with half a brain had joe going back to being grenadiers.

When I worked for AWG I had access to a 320 standalone and would use the TT 12 round bandolier when I ran it as it allowed me to scale up and down fast as needed. I would run 10 HEDP and 2 smoke.

I'm with you. And that seems to be the reasoning behind it. (PVT Snuffy shouldn't be trusted with stuff that goes boom! - Which I deeply disagree with.)

I'm liking the idea of the bandolier, just have to get it snug enough to not hit myself in the balls with it.

Also, even though my gunners are assigned the SAW, generally I will be giving them to the drivers, since they dismount with me and the TLs at the halt, while gunner stays on the .50 or MK19 topside. Thanks for the great insight gentlemen.

[sua175]

There are some idiot 1SG's and SGTMAJ out there. Here is the deal, TL's and SL's are there to lead and direct the fight (hence primary weapon is the radio and other means of signal). A 40mm weapon is one of the most casualty producing weapons in the fire team. the 40mm should be treated as our brother from 4/25 says "as a primary weapon" At 400 meters and under 40mm HEDP are wonderful to have at your disposal (especially if you have to hit targets over walls or hills) but at 400 meters they are not very accurate so hitting targets effectively requires two things, 1, lots of rounds, 2, lots of TNG. Having a soldier who is dedicated to carry rounds and shooting the 40mm in a TIC is the way to go. Having a SL or TL play both leader and grenadier is not optimal as they are not doing either job to fullest potential.

This is what I would be arguing to your Chain of command. My experience in combat and im sure GFT425 too, would back this thought up.

The TT 40mm bandolier is GtG. you can adjust t as needed, and it will keep tight.

[GTF425]

+1 on the Tac Tailor belt. They've been really popular in both 4/25 and here in the 82nd. I used to keep an extra belt loaded with HEDP in my assault pack when I carried a 203 and could grab it or hand it off as needed. Not a big investment (check Lightfighter or ebay for a used one) and one you can leave it to your Soldiers when you go to PCS/ETS. I've never had a problem with it dropping rounds when running or in the prone, if that's a concern for you.

[jrsteensen]

I am completely tracking, however it is a doctrinal issue that goes up to the MP Commandant and SGTMAJ. No escaping it. And as you said, generally in an engagement, the 203s get underutilized cause we are too busy directing fires for the SAWs and crew served weapons, and running the radios. Generally MP operations are at the squad level anyways.

[Violator]

I have a slightly off topic question regarding the mayflower gen IV. And since this appears to be the most recent thread about this rig ill ask here. I've searched and couldn't find any mention of this. If anyone has access to one can you tell me if a Motorola xts5000 will fit in one of the rifle mag pouches? Yes I know it has a dedicated (basically) radio pouch. Thanks.

[eggroll]

off the Motorola spec sheet

without battery - 6.58” x 2.44” x 1.83”

considering a typical M4 mag cell is 5-5.5 x 3 x 1" I am inclined to say no it will not fit

[Violator]

That's what I was afraid of, thanks Egg.