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View Full Version : F$#@! Cerberus corp



Blitzking
05-19-08, 12:46
Alright-- so it's now pretty much open game on Cerberus Capital Management group--it's fairly common knowledge by this point the old Harper Vision hat that's done an absolute bonzo job with Chrysler so far, has decide to rebound from a blown Navy computer contract into civilian arms.

With Remington losing their top production manager leaving for Kimber two years ago, the company found itself in a lurch, leaning on support from Harper until Cerberus absorbed them early last year.
Since then it's been a buy'er market for'em also enveloping Cobb mfg. and Bushmaster...
Only common sense says this is for the modular systems offered by by Cobb and Bushmaster while relying on the plastics industry with Chrysler to turn out polymer parts for the weapons. Remington introduces a market and tries to build a defense contract off the Cobb name.

What's otherwise been softly spoken about are Remington's investments into Marlin-- buying out the old lever action company quietly in Dec of '07. Likewise this includes other Marlin holds such as New England Firearms, L.C. Smith, and Harrington & Richardson.
And to my great surprise, but not so much surprise...nor any great loss, they also bought in Dec, '07; Defense Procurement Manufacturing Services (DPMS), which explains their sudden hike in prices, product line, and backordered receivers.

The shit stinks--
Am I the only person to feel that an investment corp, who's already bungled one defense contract and a car company has no business getting into the arms business?
In the very least, those toys we've been looking forward such as the ACR/Masada are just gonna be, at best novelt props like the XCR or SIG 556-- or, at worst; complete Edsels.
The pool works either way-- the gun's a bust or it's pushed back indefinitely, Magpul screwed out of even offering the development to someone else thanks to copyrighting and contracts with Cerberus.

Rumor mill has it both Ruger and S&W are being looked at next, while smaller small arms corps-- including LAR-- are also being considered. Stevens/Savage is looking at a bid right now--the accutrigger's patent runs out soon enough and clones are already appearing on the market.

With Remington's ties to the ammunition market, the rapid introduction of new cartridges, and Hornady's rising popularity-- I'd be worried that Carberus will start stalking them as well.

Redmanfms
05-19-08, 13:00
To be fair, Chrysler was ****ed up long before Cereberus bought it. It was ****ed up before the Krauts bought it, they made the problems at Chrysler worse and then dumped the company (pretty cheap too) to Cereberus.

Forgive my ignorance, but do capital investment groups fall under the watch of anti-trust laws? It is a little disturbing that they are buying up all the American small arms manufacturers.

Blitzking
05-19-08, 13:50
If some multibillionare George Soro's type is working in the shadows.They could buy and shutdown what they could'nt outright outlaw.

Arsenal
05-19-08, 15:06
You do know that one of Cerberus's Principles is an ardent hunter and gun owner right?


I'm perfectly fine with someone with the Money and Management experience building an American alterative to the Herstal Group [Browning, Winchester Firearms, FNH USA], not sure why you have an issue with it.

30 cal slut
05-19-08, 15:19
at least the Cerberus folks have the u.s. retail market in mind.

look at the damage those english private equity guys did to Heckler & Koch.

Jay Cunningham
05-19-08, 16:24
From what I have been led to understand, the core group of guys that run Cerberus are gun guys.

You might want to loosen the chinstrap on your tinfoil hat.

AirCavBob
05-19-08, 16:34
Yes, Chrysler was ****ed up and would have gone under if it hadn’t been for the military buying their crap Dodge pickups that lasted a few thousand miles in the 80’s. I was in the Army and couldn’t believe how much a POS those things were.

Nathan_Bell
05-19-08, 16:48
Yes, Chrysler was ****ed up and would have gone under if it hadn’t been for the military buying their crap Dodge pickups that lasted a few thousand miles in the 80’s. I was in the Army and couldn’t believe how much a POS those things were.

Or how about all of the K-cars that they stuck all kinds of Federally funded progams with :rolleyes:

Jay Cunningham
05-19-08, 16:54
I am moving this thread to GD.

Saginaw79
05-19-08, 17:33
My concern is so many civilian arms manufacturers under one company.

All they have to do is absorb more and more companies and then when the political wind is right cease production of all their civilian arms and we just lost a lot of our means of defense, and its that much easier to disarm us

variablebinary
05-19-08, 17:42
My concern is so many civilian arms manufacturers under one company.

All they have to do is absorb more and more companies and then when the political wind is right cease production of all their civilian arms and we just lost a lot of our means of defense, and its that much easier to disarm us

Financially speaking, it wouldnt make sense to spend the money to acquire, only to close the business down to appease the left.

Not everyone is Colt and can live off Gov't dollars and fat military contracts. What would bushmaster, RRA and all the other AR15 makers do without a civilian arm of business. They'd go broke or shink down to nothing.

Venture capitalists are always watching the ROI and bottom line.

chadbag
05-20-08, 02:18
I have no inside info. However, I would bet that the purchase of Bushmaster by Cerebus is one of the things that makes the ACR a possibility. Deeper pockets, perhaps more will to do new things, etc.

MontanaLongbow
05-20-08, 06:01
Nothing good can come of any of this.
Any time large investment corps start buying up small privately own
companies, eventually the small companies will suffer from corporate greed.
That means they will find ways to boost manufacturing wile trying to reduce cost, R&D will go by the way side, long term employees making good money will find them self with out jobs, quality will suffer, manufacturing machine will not be maintained and so on and so forth........... with in a few years the the big investment corp. will weed out the company's that can't keep up with there,
mostly unrealistic demands and profit margins and will ether sell them off or liquidate them. you will see this start to happen in as little as five years. watch and see my friends.

Gutshot John
05-20-08, 07:25
Forgive my ignorance, but do capital investment groups fall under the watch of anti-trust laws? It is a little disturbing that they are buying up all the American small arms manufacturers.

Yes they do fall under the Sherman act, but the question is whether the constitute a "trust."

For the time being they still only own a minority of firearms manufacturers and so it wouldn't apply...yet.

Nathan_Bell
05-20-08, 08:08
Nothing good can come of any of this.
Any time large investment corps start buying up small privately own
companies, eventually the small companies will suffer from corporate greed.
That means they will find ways to boost manufacturing wile trying to reduce cost, R&D will go by the way side, long term employees making good money will find them self with out jobs, quality will suffer, manufacturing machine will not be maintained and so on and so forth........... with in a few years the the big investment corp. will weed out the company's that can't keep up with there,
mostly unrealistic demands and profit margins and will ether sell them off or liquidate them. you will see this start to happen in as little as five years. watch and see my friends.

The companies that Cerebus has been buying were doing what R&D? How could their products be pushed any cheaper? Have you seen a modern gun mfg's plant? They have already cut out as much of the skilled force as they could without completely compromising quality.

The damage you fear happened over the past 20 years as the gun companies pumped the money they would have spent on R&D and QC improvements into legal and lobbying fees. So a big money player steps in, one that has a major amount of political clout thanks to ownership of Chrysler, and it is suddenly going to get worse?

rubberneck
05-20-08, 08:32
Forgive my ignorance, but do capital investment groups fall under the watch of anti-trust laws? It is a little disturbing that they are buying up all the American small arms manufacturers.


They are but there are no where near being close enough for the government to even to begin to care. Think of all the AR manufacturers not under the Cerberus umbrella. Colt, Armalite, LMT, Sabre, Stag, S&W, LWRC, Double Star, Les Baer, Wilson Combat, Charles Daly, etc., etc., etc........ That list doesn't include American handgun manufacturers where Cerberus has next to no footprint.