View Full Version : G19 vs G17?
strictly talking about shooting and handling, is there much of a difference between them?
Heavy Metal
02-09-14, 20:28
The 17 has a larger magwell, recoils a bit softer and has a slightly longer sight radius.
If I were confined to a duty belt Holster, I would pick the 17.
For concealment, I would take the 19. The 19 is a compromise but a damn good compromise IMO.
yea i have a 19, im about to finish LEO academy and dept uses 9mm i dont know if i should keep 19 or get 17
For some reason I shoot my 19 better than a 17. I had a 26 and felt the 19 filled all the roles very well.
Despite the seemingly small differences on paper they feel and handle surprisingly differently to me. If you're thinking of choosing between the two it'd be best to try them first.
I would go with the one that holds more ammunition.
I have had the 26, 19, 17 and 34, I still have the 19 and 26. I did not feel like the 17 did anything better than the 19.
yea maybe ill wait and see, what sights are you guys running
17 for duty, longer sight radius and more rounds. 19 for everyday carry and admin like court. Both can be picked up reasonably for blue label pricing. I use a warren tactical and heine sights on my Glocks. I used to go with trijicon sights but after getting more skilled I went with slimmer front blades since we've been shooting at distance during range sessions. Don't forget about an X300u, every duty gun should have a light. This is just my 2 cents, go with what works for you.
Psalms144.1
02-09-14, 21:11
Everything in life is a balancing act. The G17, for MOST shooters, is softer shooting, slightly more accurate, and obviously holds more rounds. The G19, for a lot of shooters, myself included is MUCH easier to conceal, across the spectrum of concealment scenarios (I'm plainclothes, and manage a G19 or equivalent sized pistol all day every day with no problem).
Were I going to be in a uniformed job, I'd opt for the slightly more capable G17. In fact, if I wasn't already heavily invested in G19s and leather/kydex for same, I would probably get the best of both worlds by getting a G17 and sending it to Cold Bore Customs for a grip chop to G19 length. That would give me all the shootability, without the added concealment hassle.
Regards,
Kevin
Voodoo_Man
02-09-14, 21:16
http://i.imgur.com/sbsFUTg.jpg
Both.
Failure2Stop
02-09-14, 21:20
I would go with the one that holds more ammunition.
G17 mags fit the G19, but a G17 isn't as concealable as a G19.
Anyway...
I used to be able to track a performance advantage in favor of the G17.
However, with more time focusing solely on the 19, the difference in performance slimmed to a margin within my normal performance variances.
I diverted from Glocks for a while due to competition, and am looking forward to getting back to them and a G41.
I originally shot the G19 much better, but it was also the gun I carried and shot the most. I picked up a G17 to switch to as a duty weapon and found that it was easier for me to control. Over time I've come to accept that I can run it a little better. My hands are just large enough that I can pinch my hand during some G19 reloads.
Now that I've spent a lot of time on both, I can shoot them both fairly equally, but the G17 gets it being that my hands don't hang off and the longer sight radius. I still keep my G19 to carry every now and then, but it's not my duty weapon.
G17 with the grip cut to G19 length.
That said I carry appendix so I carry a G19 everyday because the 17 slide is just barely too long.
___TomB___
02-09-14, 22:17
Shooting the G17 has less chance of getting brass to the face. I maybe wrong.
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The G17 has less chance of getting brass to the face. I maybe wrong.
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Negative, that was based off a run of Glocks, not solely G17's. I've seen quite a few G19's with the issue also.
___TomB___
02-09-14, 22:43
Negative, that was based off a run of Glocks, not solely G17's. I've seen quite a few G19's with the issue also.
I agreed with you. That was what I stated in my previous post. The G19's appear to have more BTF issues.
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scoutchris
02-09-14, 22:45
If it's a duty rig, get a 34. Same frame, an inch longer barrel, sight radius, and the corresponding velocity increase.
Marshall Dillon
02-09-14, 22:49
I've owned and shot both for over 20 years...thousands of rounds through multiple generations of each.
Personally, the G17 would be my choice for duty and the G19 concealed carry. I'm 5'10" / 185 lbs and I have no trouble concealing either the G19 or G17. However, the G19 is a little easier in the summer when out and about in cargo shorts and a t-shirt carrying OWB at 4 o'clock. Less worry with respect to the butt printing. It's not a big deal but the G19 is a little bit easier to conceal.
In terms of accuracy, I shoot them both really well. They're not target guns and they both shoot the same size groups in competent hands.
With respect to your question, if it were my choice, I would go G17 since it's a duty gun and I would want the maximum amount of rounds possible on the job. I'd shoot the piss out of it and would have zero issues carrying it concealed when off duty.
If it's a duty rig, get a 34. Same frame, an inch longer barrel, sight radius, and the corresponding velocity increase.
If money allows, this is the best solution.
Generally the G17 is easier to shoot (sight radius and recoil). Some people who shoot 19s a lot and try a 17 prefer the 19 because the grip angle is a bit different. I also run a G17 with shortened grips to take g19 mags my edc.
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Most of my shooting in 2013 was with a gen4 G19, including several classes, matches, and projects. Early in January, I started a new gen4 G17 and will likely do a majority of shooting with it through 2014. What I've noticed so far...
G17... fewer initial gripping errors, more consistent mag insertion at speed during reloads, lower frequency of riding the slide stop lever, shot speed and splits are better with the G17, but the time and accuracy differences are very small.
G19... better performance shooting SHO and WHO, which was particularly noteworthy during some recent low-light training, and better slow-fire OH groups at distance.
I think last year's focused effort with the G19 helped close that gap between the guns. The same focused effort on the G17 may open it up a bit, but we'll see. I'll also note that I use different sights on each gun, I-Dot Pros on the G17, Trij HDs on the G19. Some differences (or lack thereof) may be attributable to that.
Shooting the G17 has less chance of getting brass to the face. I maybe wrong.
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On what do you base that?
If money allows, this is the best solution.
I don't have a dog in the fight but many people are suspect that the slide cuts could lead to a stoppage if debris or something worked into the channel. I tend to think it's an unlikely circumstance but that the 17 is such a great shooting gun as is then why take that risk.
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For those noting sight radius as an advantage favoring the G17 over the G19 (or G34 over G17), have you actually shot groups at distance, measured, and quantified the difference between them?
g-men10455
02-09-14, 22:59
http://i.imgur.com/sbsFUTg.jpg
Both.
I not a Glock guy but I pay for a setup like that. Very nice!!!
___TomB___
02-09-14, 23:06
On what do you base that?
My own experience and my research.
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My own experience and my research.
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Interesting. Can you provide more detail? Specifics of the guns? Quantity of rounds fired, frequency of BTF within?
imho/fwiw:
- Wait till you graduate, keep the G19: Carry it Off Duty, add a G17 . . . Why? It happens to most of us ;)
Again, IMHO: Save your money, Buy Ammo, Take a Handgun Class from an ALIAS Instructor = Better Investment than adding another Glock ;)
Q: Is Gxx, better than Gxx?
A: NO
^ Facts: Shooter makes the difference. Same shooter: Equal FAIL or Equal WIN . . . edit: "PROPER" Practice makes Prefect
For those noting sight radius as an advantage favoring the G17 over the G19 (or G34 over G17), have you actually shot groups at distance, measured, and quantified the difference between them?
Seems like increased sight radius is an accepted aide to accuracy. Even if someone did what you said they wouldn't be able to isolate sight radius as the guns would also have different barrels/etc.
But I hear what your saying and personally can shoot a g26 pretty accurately in slow fire. It's the recoil and grip surface difference that makes it drop off at higher rates of fire.
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Wreckingball911
02-09-14, 23:48
Shoot, I'd pick the 19 just for the comfort of it. I own a 17 and 19 and feel the performance difference is negligible.
I carry a g21 on duty and while it is a sweet shooter it is also a tremendous brick on my hip that really digs in while driving.
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warpedcamshaft
02-09-14, 23:58
My 2 cents:
I've carried both, shot many thousands of rounds with both, been to training courses with both, and tracked my performance with both... Which is something very few individuals seem to mention when posting their opinions.
The Glock 17 does offer an advantage for me of maybe about 5-10 percent in several types of standardized drills... such as the Hackathorn Standards or "The Test" by Larry Vickers.
I am aware of the advantages of the 17, but select the 19 when considering concealment for most seasons. If concealment is not a factor, I will choose the 17 if it is an option.
(If I had to own 1 Glock, it would still be a 19)
xjustintimex
02-10-14, 00:00
Most of my shooting in 2013 was with a gen4 G19, including several classes, matches, and projects. Early in January, I started a new gen4 G17 and will likely do a majority of shooting with it through 2014. What I've noticed so far...
G17... fewer initial gripping errors, more consistent mag insertion at speed during reloads, lower frequency of riding the slide stop lever, shot speed and splits are better with the G17, but the time and accuracy differences are very small.
G19... better performance shooting SHO and WHO, which was particularly noteworthy during some recent low-light training, and better slow-fire OH groups at distance.
I think last year's focused effort with the G19 helped close that gap between the guns. The same focused effort on the G17 may open it up a bit, but we'll see. I'll also note that I use different sights on each gun, I-Dot Pros on the G17, Trij HDs on the G19. Some differences (or lack thereof) may be attributable to that.
On what do you base that?
this mirrors my experience as well except I will add that the g17 is much more forgiving for me on initial grip errors. It shoots just enough softer that during bill drills and repetitive speed based shooting that the g17 is noticeably different and more consistent - but when your on-top of it with the g19 times are pretty much the same. My hands are small enough that reloads are about the same for me. The grip angle on the g17 just seems to lock down better - because the differences in shoot-ability are so minimal but for me the difference in conceal-ability is night and day... I just stick with the g19 to include idpa matches/classes exc.
Heavy Metal
02-10-14, 00:15
For those noting sight radius as an advantage favoring the G17 over the G19 (or G34 over G17), have you actually shot groups at distance, measured, and quantified the difference between them?
Yes, at 25, I score about 5% better with the 17. In closer, the difference vanishes.
It's negligible but measurable.
And I agree with F2S. Run the 19 heavy and don't touch the 17 and the difference closes.
Put the 19 down and run the 17 a couple of weeks and it will come back as your muscle memory adapts from one grip to the other.
For those noting sight radius as an advantage favoring the G17 over the G19 (or G34 over G17), have you actually shot groups at distance, measured, and quantified the difference between them?
No. I don't know that it matters for groups. I find the longer sight radius easier to track in recoil.
http://i.imgur.com/sbsFUTg.jpg
Both.
This. I have a G17 cut this way and it's truly the best of both worlds.
Okie John
strictly talking about shooting and handling, is there much of a difference between them?
With enough trigger time on each the "shooting and handling" differences are negligible.
Whatcha gonna use it for?
I agreed with you. That was what I stated in my previous post. The G19's appear to have more BTF issues.
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My bad, I screwed up. I meant to say I have seen plenty of G17's do it. My G17 did it for a while until I replaced a few parts.
I'd also like to see your stats and research, because I have seen plenty of both that did it.
EXCELLENT replies given here so far.
Reread all replies up to the post before this one.
Reread them again, and you will have a great grasp on the answers to your questions.
Any additional posts after mine would be repetitive and redundant.
brickboy240
02-10-14, 11:23
I have a 2nd gen G17 and 3rd gen G19.
For some reason...I shoot the G19 better.
I think it is because the G19 has less of pronounced "hump" on it's backstrap than the G17. This is more like the 1911, Hi-Power and SIGs I own...with flatter backstraps.
The G17's backstrap is unlike most other pistols and takes getting use to or I instantly shoot high with the thing. A Grip Force extender or grip mod might change that for the G17 but I always felt the G19 has a more comfy grip.
-brickboy240
Failure2Stop
02-10-14, 11:42
One thing to chase all of this, especially as sight radius is frequently brought up.
The reason for the preponderance of the G35 in competition is mostly because the longer barrel allows weaker ammo to make major PF.
I have seen no data to suggest that the G34 or G17 are more accurate than a G19. There are individual examples of each that will outperform the data spread of the others, however, as a whole, they all shoot about the same.
Rosco Benson
02-10-14, 12:30
The Gen 3 17 feels better to me than the Gen 3 19. The uppermost finger groove is smaller (narrower, top to bottom) on the G19 than on the G17. This causes my middle finger to ride slightly atop the hump rather than in the groove. Oddly, the uppermost groove on the G26 is the same size as the G17's. Strange. I presume they had a reason for this.
This is not the case with the Gen 4 pistols. The uppermost groove is the same size across the spectrum.
Rosco
One thing to chase all of this, especially as sight radius is frequently brought up.
The reason for the preponderance of the G35 in competition is mostly because the longer barrel allows weaker ammo to make major PF.
I have seen no data to suggest that the G34 or G17 are more accurate than a G19. There are individual examples of each that will outperform the data spread of the others, however, as a whole, they all shoot about the same.
^ Agree 100%
Shoot my 19 better than my 17. Can't comfortably conceal the 17.
17 is nice to have as it is the original Glock, bedside that it has very marginal gains over a 19.
FChen17213
02-10-14, 14:11
The 17 is more accurate than the 19 in general. We can generally quantify this looking at people's scores for slowfire at a 25 yd bull. Targets used are NRA B-8 Repair Centers at 25 yards. 10 round slow fire strings are scored. For most people (myself included) the scores with the 17 are about 5-7% higher. A 19 with a good match barrel can also improve the score by a good bit. Very good shooters often shoot high 90s or 100 with a 17 with match barrel. Another good measurement is comparing the 700 Aggregate scores of shooters shooting the 17 and 19. Almost across the board, people will score 5-7% better with the 17 than the 19.
I haven't seen a lot of scores done with a 26 or 34 so I don't know the results of those, but I have a few speculations. I am going to guess that the 26 scores are going to be more than 5% lower than the 19 scores. I suspect this will be due to an even shorter sight radius and reduced 2 fingers gripped on the gun with pinky hanging off. I am also going to guess that the 34's scores will be less than 5% better than the 17 scores. Since lots of people already shoot 90s with the full framed 17, it is going to be very difficult to score 5% better. The difference between a low 90s shooter and a mid 90s shooter is actually tremendous. Lots of people plateau in the low to mid 90s. To go from a mid 90s to high 90s score consistently is supposed to be super super difficult. I don't shoot that well so I dont know.
One other thing that we may want to bear in mind when talking about accuracy is this. Bench rested in a machine, the mechanical accuracy between a 19 and a 17 may be very small....it might even be negligible. However, why is it that when people actually shoot the guns, there is a larger difference? I suspect this is all due to the human error being magnified. When we squeeze the trigger and screw up our sight picture/sight alignment, that messup is going to cause a much uglier picture downrange the shorter the sight radius is. This is mainly from angular deviation. Angular deviation in a G26 will wreak havoc on the results much more than angular deviation with a G17 due to the decreased length of the slide.
I sold off two G34's after learning that I consistently shot my G19s far better.
I shot both 17 and 19 before making my purchase I also wanted something I could conceal easily I shot both guns about the same but I chose the 19 and haven't looked back.
Voodoo_Man
02-10-14, 16:12
Totally depends on the shooter.
34/17 is more forgiving for grip issues and the recoil isn't as felt as the g19. The g19 is a concealment dream but also really accurate, recoil needs to be managed.
I have a 26 that I am as accurate with as any other 9mm glock I have.
scoutchris
02-10-14, 16:19
One thing to chase all of this, especially as sight radius is frequently brought up.
The reason for the preponderance of the G35 in competition is mostly because the longer barrel allows weaker ammo to make major PF.
I have seen no data to suggest that the G34 or G17 are more accurate than a G19. There are individual examples of each that will outperform the data spread of the others, however, as a whole, they all shoot about the same.
If you provide the range I will prove to you that the 34 is objectively more accurate than the 17.
If you provide the range I will prove to you that the 34 is objectively more accurate than the 17.
I for one would really like to see the results of such a test. Frank Galli over on the Hide has wrung out incredible accuracy from 18" barreled .308 bolt guns. From my understanding, barrel length has far more to do with velocity than accuracy.
Failure2Stop
02-10-14, 16:35
If you provide the range I will prove to you that the 34 is objectively more accurate than the 17.
You might be able to prove that 1 G34 is more precise than most G17s, however, as a data set from benched guns, there is no difference between the 19, 17 and 34; and in fact the smaller (G26 size) guns actually tend to be the most precise.
The speculation is that the harder lockup of the short guns keeps the individual moving parts of the small guns together longer, resulting in higher inherent mechanical accuracy.
How one shoots the gun in hand, however, is what really matters, and I believe you if you say that you shoot your G34 better than your G17. As I said before, I tracked a performance difference at 25 to 50 yards that favored the G17 in my hands, however, when I was shooting the G19 primarily, that gap ceased to exist.
sierra 223
02-10-14, 16:52
I carry both a 17 and 19, at one time I carried the 17 only in uniform and carried my 19 when not in uniform and when off duty.
Now I carry the 17 99% of the time off duty as well.
Reasons for this has already been mentioned by some people.
For me the 17 is a little quicker and more sure on the draw due to the longer grip and a little easier on reloads for the same reason.
As far as my qualification scores they are pretty much the same. Sometimes I do better with one, next time the other.
I really don't think one model will be much more mechanically accurate than the other.
I think some individual guns are more accurate than the next and for personal reasons for some people one model just may interface better to their hand than another model.
With enough practice though you can get almost as accurate with one as the other.
The Dumb Gun Collector
02-10-14, 17:07
I have owned a bushel of both. I have a 19 now but, in my experience, the G17 is more reliable and less prone to BTF.
xjustintimex
02-10-14, 17:15
same almost all of my glock failures have been with the g19 platform. I really have not had problems with the g17s compared to a bucketload of g19 failures.
sierra 223
02-10-14, 17:49
Agreed 17 is usually more reliable.
I have both in the Gen 3 versions. I score better on drills/qualifications with the G17. I would go with the G17 for duty and G19 for PC or court if you are able. With LE pricing, you can get a solid duty weapon without breaking the bank.
Own both G19s and a 17. My choice for the day is contingent upon what I plan to do. It's rare including range days, instructing etc. that I will carry the 17. Shooting out to 25-50 is really the only time I prefer the longer sight radius of the G17 however it is a humbling challenge to train at that distance with the 19, my weaknesses really show up letting me know where I need to improve. CCW carrying AIWB for long periods w/o question the G19 is the go to. Attempted it with the G17 and it was too much for me. YMMV.
I currently own two handguns:a Gen3 17 and 26. After shooting a bunch of 19's guys at work own, I'm strongly considering ditching them both and picking up one 19 to do-it-all.
The 19 absolutely does feel different in the hand compared to both and the difference in accuracy between the two is negligible. I can't shoot well enough to tell, but I group roughly 3.5" at 25 yards with my 17 and 4.2" with the 26 and 124gr Speer +P.
I'm too small to conceal a 17 (5'7") AIWB, but the 26 melts into my waistline. A 19 is barely larger in the holster, but the increase in grip surface area is worth it. Plus, you can mount a white light for duty use.
My current pistol stable includes only Gen 3 9mm Glocks and a dedicated .22 Glock 17.
My home defense and class gun is a Glock 17 with X300.
My CCW and IDPA gun is a Glock 19.
From around 20 yards and in I can tell no difference in accuracy between the two, but I personally tend to shoot the 17 better on longer IDPA stages, but that probably has more to do with shooter than pistol.
I'm 6'4" 240lbs or so and my hands fit a Gen 3 17 like it was made for me. The shorter grip of the G19 makes seating a magazine a more conscious effort as my hand can easily prevent the mag from fully seating unless I shift my grip or run the longer G17 mags in the 19.
Otherwise for me operation is identical.
I'll echo previous sentiment and say that if concealment were not an issue I'd run a G17 all day and never look back. Since it is however, I choose to run both.
Heavy Metal
02-10-14, 19:29
You might be able to prove that 1 G34 is more precise than most G17s, however, as a data set from benched guns, there is no difference between the 19, 17 and 34; and in fact the smaller (G26 size) guns actually tend to be the most precise.
The speculation is that the harder lockup of the short guns keeps the individual moving parts of the small guns together longer, resulting in higher inherent mechanical accuracy.
How one shoots the gun in hand, however, is what really matters, and I believe you if you say that you shoot your G34 better than your G17. As I said before, I tracked a performance difference at 25 to 50 yards that favored the G17 in my hands, however, when I was shooting the G19 primarily, that gap ceased to exist.
Jack, sometime when you are at the top of your game with the 19, shoot a couple targets for record. Put the 19 down and switch to the 17 for a few weeks and then shoot a couple targets for record on a good day and compare.
I think part of the reason you shoot so close with the 19 is muscle memory and familiarity. If you are like me, 90+% of your Handgun Rounds come out the muzzle of a G-19. I think that is biasing things a bit in favor of the 19.
I am like you, I really couldn't see a difference till I stepped away from the 19 and trained with the 17 for a bit. Your brain is just too 'timed' to the 19.
voiceofreason
02-10-14, 19:42
Depends on how they fit your hand. The G17 fits my hand far better, the bumps don't match up well for me on the 19
Wouldn't be too difficult to borrow or rent the G17. Run a course of fire you're familiar with running both guns off a time and score your run.
If the G17 is very close to the G19 you regularly train with, then it'll probably be better in the long run.
G17 for duty and G19 for concealed carry works for many people
I'm one of the people that the G17 fits my hand far better, but it too large to conceal easily. G19 is pushing it for me.
if the 19 fits your hand better, then it can be a jack of all trades
My G17 gets CC'd most of the time.
I do have a G19 that I haven't shot much so I have not carried it yet.
Like the post before mine the G17 fits my hand better but I really want to like the G19.
I've owned and shot both for over 20 years...thousands of rounds through multiple generations of each.
Personally, the G17 would be my choice for duty and the G19 concealed carry. I'm 5'10" / 185 lbs and I have no trouble concealing either the G19 or G17. However, the G19 is a little easier in the summer when out and about in cargo shorts and a t-shirt carrying OWB at 4 o'clock. Less worry with respect to the butt printing. It's not a big deal but the G19 is a little bit easier to conceal.
In terms of accuracy, I shoot them both really well. They're not target guns and they both shoot the same size groups in competent hands.
With respect to your question, if it were my choice, I would go G17 since it's a duty gun and I would want the maximum amount of rounds possible on the job. I'd shoot the piss out of it and would have zero issues carrying it concealed when off duty.
Agree very much. I have 26,19,17,34 and 17L. I've shot thousands of rounds through all. 19 for ccw, 17 for duty. Either could fill the role of the other nicely in my opinion. You should be able to reload in your sleep with any weapon you trust your life to. Everyone is so hung up on capacity. If you can shoot well and reload fast, life is good.
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