View Full Version : Thinking of buying BCM EAG HS, am I going to be sorry for not buying FF rail?
SurplusShooter
02-09-14, 20:29
I'm thinking of buying this:
http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-EAG-HS-Mid-Length-Upper-Receiver-package-p/bcm-uh-eag2-hs.htm
As a lightweight iron-sight "keep it simple" rifle. I'll spare you the details of all of my decision making process, but after searching-around here and other sites I see this is a well-regarded option.
(there's already another thread on 14.5 pinned&welded vs 16" so not going into that here).
This version (link above) comes with handguard, instead of a Free-float rail.
I searched and saw the discussions already about free-float rail advantages. I already have a different rifle that I use for target-shooting, this rifle does not have to be that.
The version with FF rail is significantly more expensive, I don't think I need it right now. Stop me here if I'm wrong.
My question is:
1) I think I'm okay without having a free-float rail, like I said I want a "keep it simple" rifle that is lightweight this is not a target/bench shooting rifle.
_if_ I buy this version now, am I really going to be in some serious "oh crap I'm stuck" feeling later _if_ I have a change of heart and say "I really have to have a free-float rail" ?
My thinking is, If I really want to go that route later its easy-enough to get one of the rails that will go on the exsting barrel nut (e.g Centurion, etc) so even with a Pinned and Welded FH my options are still open to adding a rail later, right?
What say you? no big deal or "you're going to be sorry"
2) Deciding between the Standard A2X flashhider or BCM Gunfighter Comp, the price is only about a $45 difference, but its pinned-and-welded so want to "buy right" the first time. This will be the first time I've owned any AR that didn't have standard Birdcage. BCM Gunfighter Comp worth the $45 or don't waste my time and just go with the A2x ? Yes I did search on this, seems the BCM Gunfigher Comp hasn't been much reviewed yet?
Please advise, or stop me if I'm about to do something stupid.
You might, you might not. Lots of people like a longer hand guard than a MOE. Lots of people like a thinner hand guard than a MOE. It's all user dependent. Also plenty of people who use an AR for more than a lot of us are ever going to don't seem to struggle because they have quad rails.
Any good gunsmith can replace and pin on a new muzzle device if you end up not liking it.
I have one I bought this fall. I have been really happy with mine- I have not found any major issues with the barrel not being free floated - this thing runs like a top. You can always pay a smith later to free float the upper.
Also got mine with the BCM comp- it makes a big difference (to me) over the original A2 flash hider. Plus the MOE furniture is really light.
If you decide you wont like hanguards, there are a few rails who use the stock barrel nut so it's an easy job to put a rail on and FF it. Samson, Fortis, some Centurion rails, and if I'm not mistaken MI as well (and maybe a few other brands?).
Hanguards are more than fine tho. Sometimes simplier is better. Many who have railed guns also have non free floats also, and some find they use the non railed versions more just due to simplicity and weight.
Umm, ran a middy with an MOE forearm for almost two years, literally just replaced it with a DD Omega yesterday. Why? Well two reasons, am running an ACOG and have been finding myself playing with it to see if it will outshoot a 20 inch heavy barrel I own, and two because it was always the original plan. The fact that Rainier had them on a smoking hot sale didn't hurt. I personally like the feel of a rail, my opinion, and that is not to say that the MOE handguard is bad as I still have one on another AR I own and it will stay there. Also, I was more than able to get good groups from it with the MOE handguard, and I never felt it was holding me back. Rails are easier to mount things however, and that was an issue I was personally having with the MOE, and give you more options in how and wear you can mount things, which I am really liking at the moment with my DD rail. If it were me in your situation, and looking at the price difference I would honestly, and this is solely me, buy the one without the Larue rail and then buy me another Omega from Rainer and just drop it in there and roll that way. That is me, and then again I wouldn't likely be looking at a 14.5 either, but that is neither here nor there.
So from everything considered, flip a coin.
As far as muzzle devices I can give no real opinion since I am only running A2s at the moment.
No, your not stuck. C4 rails can be found cheap in like new condition in the EE quite often.
They are rock solid and you don't have to pay a smith to mess with the flash suppressor.
SurplusShooter
02-09-14, 21:59
I forgot to mention in my OP, I have a barrel-nut wrench and a upper-receiver vice block, so If possible I can add these rails "from the back" of the barrel install, no reason to have to hire a gunsmith to cut & reweld if I understand correctly?
(I have the tools but I've never had occasions to use them yet). I'm wondering if someone's going to tell me "don't ever take-part a factory assembled upper" for some reason or I will lose all the "BCM good-ness" if I mess with it like that?
To quantify: the price difference between the BCM complete upper-halves with LaRue vs the Magpul MOE, is $450 (the LaRue version also has the BFH Barrel so the price difference is not only the rail). It's a budget-breaker for me, right now. Based on the advice I am seeing here, its okay for me to save my money and I can get a FF rail later, probably even under that price-point easily (e.g. if I go with a Samson rail, see below).
If you decide you wont like hanguards, there are a few rails who use the stock barrel nut so it's an easy job to put a rail on and FF it. Samson .....
Sliding off topic here, but..... Interesting that you mention them, I saw the other thread about Samson, coincidentally I bought a Samson rail for one of my other Rifles (but that was installed "from the front" over a low-pro gasblock) and if I like it after a while I might add to this BCM later (or sooner :) ).
Edit to add: following the advice that is often given, I'm probably just going to "shoot the gun as-is" for a while before I decide on the rail / no-rail / which rail.
TacticalMark
02-09-14, 22:25
I think your making a good choice. I would stick with a standard A2X unless you really want a comp. If your thinking of going the comp route I would look at PWS FSC556 or BC1.5. I've shot both and currently have a FSC pinned on my 14.5" and like it. As far as freefloat goes I didn't notice any accuracy difference switching from a MOE handguard to a C4 rail under normal shooting conditions offhand ext.
jonbondave
02-10-14, 01:04
I just bought one of these uppers with the BCM comp. It's a smoking deal, and if you bought it parted out it would be nearly a hundred dollars more. MOE works for me on this carbine, because weight savings was always the goal for the build. That being said, I would not hesitate to recommend either the DD Omega rail or the Centurion rail. I currently run a Centurion 12 inch FSB cutout on my 14.5 carbine length BCM. I haven't shot this new one yet, but I'll try to remember to post a review when I do. That said, if anyone is planning to attend an EAG class soon and would like my $100.00 certificate. Send me a PM.
American military personnel have been killing turds for over 40 years with handguards on their rifles. Not having one isn't the end of the world.
I forgot to mention in my OP, I have a barrel-nut wrench and a upper-receiver vice block, so If possible I can add these rails "from the back" of the barrel install, no reason to have to hire a gunsmith to cut & reweld if I understand correctly?
I think that will only work if the rail you choose can be added after the barrel and new barrel nut is installed and torqued. Otherwise you won't be able to tighten the barrel nut with the new rail in the way. So, maybe only a two-piece freefloated rail would work in that instance.
Just go with a 16" gun that isn't perm'ed. Decide if you like it or not without free-float. If you do, sell it and buy the EAG.
Or, just buy the EAG and run it. If it doesn't work for you, sell it and get something that does.
However, when you don't know what will work for you or not, a 16" is never the wrong answer. 14.5" perm'ed is only the right answer when you are absolutely sure, otherwise you'll lose money selling or paying the smith if you're incapable of doing the work yourself.
jonbondave
02-10-14, 13:46
I frequently peruse local (NW WA state) firearms classifieds and have yet to see a 14.5 quality rifle/upper sell for under a quality 16 rifle/upper everything else being equal. If you buy a 14.5 set up properly the way you want it, or you wish to use one of the many great rail systems that utilize the standard barrel nut I don't see a tone of reasons to remove the muzzle device anyhow. I would say having a FSB is much more of a handicap in regards to fore ends than a permanently attached device. Personally I want the handiest carbine I can own, and in WA state that means no SBR's for anyone.... 14.5 it is for me.
Just go with a 16" gun that isn't perm'ed. Decide if you like it or not without free-float. If you do, sell it and buy the EAG.
Or, just buy the EAG and run it. If it doesn't work for you, sell it and get something that does.
However, when you don't know what will work for you or not, a 16" is never the wrong answer. 14.5" perm'ed is only the right answer when you are absolutely sure, otherwise you'll lose money selling or paying the smith if you're incapable of doing the work yourself.
It shouldn't sell under because you've paid more for an extended muzzle device to be permanently attached. But you'll often lose the expense of the perm job. Disregard if you can do it yourself.
If the 1" makes a difference for you in WA, consider a bull pup or a pistol AR with the sig brace.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
jonbondave
02-10-14, 14:08
I suppose you lose out on 50 bucks in most cases. in regards to the EAG HS upper, even with paying for perma install you're still ahead of the game in cost. 800.00 dollars for a complete quality upper is a steal. The exact set up in a 16 inch non BFH lightweight middy with the other parts that come with the EAG is 807.90. with the BCM comp the EAG is 809.95. with the standard A2X flash hider the EAG upper is 770.00. AS far as bullpups go, I did strongly consider them. But I'm already in 4 AR's deep, so in terms of spare parts, spare magazine, being able to use accessories across a platform etc... Not to mention years of platform familiarity.
FF handguards are the exception in my AR pile. The ergo and length of a handguard are more important. So if you can replace later with a drop in that you like... no biggie.
SurplusShooter
02-10-14, 19:52
I just hit the "buy" button on the BCM EAS HS, with BCM Comp. Thanks everyone for your advice.
Congrats! You will not be sorry. I love my HS upper. I went with foilage furniture too.
You can do just fine without a FF rail:
http://looserounds.com/2013/08/05/what-will-the-m4-do-at-1000-yards/
jonbondave
02-11-14, 02:24
I just hit the "buy" button on the BCM EAS HS, with BCM Comp. Thanks everyone for your advice. Over & Out.
You won't be sorry. Let us know what you think. I'll post my review as soon as the weather and scheduling cooperate. Budget build AR that might turn into my favorite. We'll see. Also still waiting for my new aimpoint h-1 which is taking an extra couple days to get through the weather.
I don't understand why they keep perpetuating the stupid gov't profile.
I can see offering it in a 14.5" carbine configuration for clone builders, but why make that profile standard on everything they make?
I have a similar rifle, I added the DD Omega rail to get a free float barrel. I would buy another if needed.
SurplusShooter
02-11-14, 10:07
(edit: my answer moved to a more appropriate thread).
I just hit the "buy" button on the BCM EAS HS, with BCM Comp. Thanks everyone for your advice.
Thank God!!! A lot of people would have hemmed and hawed, burnt incense, waited for planet alignment, consulted a therapist, worn off skin tissue from hand wringing, consulted a Ouija Board, emailed the Dalai Lama, and still would have bought a Del-ton. You managed to step up to the plate in just over 24 hours. That must be a friggin record! Dude, you rock! Good on ya.
richiecotite
02-11-14, 23:33
I don't understand why they keep perpetuating the stupid gov't profile.
I can see offering it in a 14.5" carbine configuration for clone builders, but why make that profile standard on everything they make?
EAG HS has a lightweight profile
Thank God!!! A lot of people would have hemmed and hawed, burnt incense, waited for planet alignment, consulted a therapist, worn off skin tissue from hand wringing, consulted a Ouija Board, emailed the Dalai Lama, and still would have bought a Del-ton. You managed to step up to the plate in just over 24 hours. That must be a friggin record! Dude, you rock! Good on ya.
LoL I love this. It's so true. Congratulations OP, I'm sure you'll love your BCM.
SurplusShooter
03-09-14, 15:33
Thank God!!! A lot of people would have hemmed and hawed, burnt incense, waited for planet alignment, consulted a therapist, worn off skin tissue from hand wringing, consulted a Ouija Board, emailed the Dalai Lama, and still would have bought a Del-ton. You managed to step up to the plate in just over 24 hours. That must be a friggin record! Dude, you rock! Good on ya.
LoL I love this. It's so true. Congratulations OP, I'm sure you'll love your BCM.
Alright, this is not the Custom Build forum, but... this is not a custom build either; anyways I thought I'd share a picture just to close-out this thread:
http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t445/ResponsibleCitizen64/BCM4_EAG_HS/Photo-253_zpscc2817d2.jpg
Basically its a 100% BCM rifle. Aimpoint PRO, and Inforce WML light on a Magpul Scout mount (I had to modify it to slide-back 1/2 a slot so it didn't impact the FSB).
Don't beat me up about the Sling, I'm still experimenting with it and trying to figure it out (need to get the QD pieces for the sling).
TacticalMark
03-09-14, 15:43
How does it shoot?
SurplusShooter
03-09-14, 17:45
How does it shoot?
In front of the pistol grip is the Trigger (black curved lever), if I pull that it shoots. ;)
I don't understand why they keep perpetuating the stupid gov't profile.
I can see offering it in a 14.5" carbine configuration for clone builders, but why make that profile standard on everything they make?
That's why they offer LW profile :dance3:
What, do you want to see something similar to a s2w ordeal from DD?
Berserkr556
03-09-14, 19:03
Because people like me only buy the Govt. profile. Not everyone is into the whole lightweight thing. I still laugh when people tell me the AR is heavy.
I don't understand why they keep perpetuating the stupid gov't profile.
I can see offering it in a 14.5" carbine configuration for clone builders, but why make that profile standard on everything they make?
Because people like me only buy the Govt. profile. Not everyone is into the whole lightweight thing. I still laugh when people tell me the AR is heavy.
I still laugh when I see people pay money for a barrel that's light at the chamber end and heavy at the muzzle.
Tell us again how accurate it is how I need to hit the gym...
SpeedRacer
03-09-14, 20:31
Looks good to me. I ran a rifle with midlength MOE for years and it didn't slow me down. As I dialed in my needs through training I upgraded to a rail, but it took a long time until I found it to be a "necessity".
The only change I'd make is scooting that Aimpoint to the front of the receiver so you can use your rear BUIS without having to remove the optic.
Berserkr556
03-09-14, 20:43
My BCMs are accurate enough. If I want anything more I use a bolt gun. Go hit the gym.
I still laugh when I see people pay money for a barrel that's light at the chamber end and heavy at the muzzle.
Tell us again how accurate it is how I need to hit the gym...
SurplusShooter
03-09-14, 23:00
The only change I'd make is scooting that Aimpoint to the front of the receiver so you can use your rear BUIS without having to remove the optic.
The MBUS can deploy with Aimpoint in that position.
That's why they offer LW profile :dance3:
What, do you want to see something similar to a s2w ordeal from DD?
Nah. Something more like a Noveske N4...
The only change I'd make is scooting that Aimpoint to the front of the receiver so you can use your rear BUIS without having to remove the optic.
Yup. Get it a little further from your eye and it works much better with both eyes open, focused on the target.
Alright, this is not the Custom Build forum, but... this is not a custom build either; anyways I thought I'd share a picture just to close-out this thread:
http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t445/ResponsibleCitizen64/BCM4_EAG_HS/Photo-253_zpscc2817d2.jpg
Basically its a 100% BCM rifle. Aimpoint PRO, and Inforce WML light on a Magpul Scout mount (I had to modify it to slide-back 1/2 a slot so it didn't impact the FSB).
Don't beat me up about the Sling, I'm still experimenting with it and trying to figure it out (need to get the QD pieces for the sling).
Sling!!? I want to beat you up on the color fill! I take back my compliment grasshopper. :o Spikes, Del-Ton, RRA, BM, Olympic, are all designed and built for color fill. To color fill A BCM, DD, COLT, LMT, KAC, Noveske lower is like ..... It's just not done. Baby Jesus just cried, an angel lost it's wings, TOS members are celebrating with champagne. Are you French? LOL, Just kidding,nice set up. Did I mention how much I liked the color fill? :D
jonbondave
03-10-14, 02:10
My eag is essentially set up exactly the same but for a aero lower. And I use quick detach on my sling. I play around with other forearms too. I'm going to SBR my lower as soon as this legislation gores into effect and break the weld. Then buy a 12.5 kino configuration to split the time on the lower.
SurplusShooter
03-10-14, 07:33
Got it, I'll experiment with the red dot placement.
I think nailing down the FH/Comp you are ultimately going to prefer is going to be the tough part.
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