Glock 19/17 Gen3 vs Gen4 Magazine/Slide Release - Grip Shift ; Reload Ergo

[SPDGG]

* * * * Focusing strictly on Grip Ergo: Reach; Mag/Slide Release from Gen3 to Gen4 * * * *

Hello,
Apologize in advance if this has been covered. I did search for this here as well as Google. Couldn't find anyone that had both & posted or sold off one Gen for another.

Interested if anyone owns both the Gen 3 & Gen 4 frames in the same size, 19/23; 17/22; 34/35, & has compared both Gen(s) for reload speed.
- Is there a noticeable difference between the two or do you find them equal?

* Currently I have/use Glock Gen3 small frames with Ext. Vicker's Tactical Mag Catch/Releases.
Been debating if I should sell off my Gen3 Glocks & buy Gen4 replacements.

Seems the Gen4's larger Mag release & the slight grip reduction using No back-straps would help with hand/finger placement during reloads.
Visually the Gen4 mag release size seems it would help with the larger engagement area, I would swap out & use Glock OE Extended or Vicker Tactical Gen4 Mag Releases.

* I have Medium size hands & am trying to reduce the amount of RH grip shift I currently have to do to firmly press the Gen3 release & press down on the Slide release.
I do not have issues performing a reload, but I'll take any ergo advantage :)

Appreciate any feedback/input.

Have a great one

[SW-Shooter]

You are over analyzing. Build muscle memory with practice and don't think it to death.

[SPDGG]

You are over analyzing. Build muscle memory with practice and don't think it to death.
Thank you for your opinion/post, but I disagree on the over analyzing. Similar threads pop up regarding all platforms. You could say to make do with what you have for everything, but we fortunately have options.

Agree: "Proper Practice" - "QUALITY Training" is key

As stated in my post above, I don't have an issue with shooting the current Gen3 frames I have.
I'm interested to hear if there is an advantage from shooters that have had spent time with both & hopefully with similar hand size.

imho: Nothing wrong with trying to improve on ergonomics, which helps with weapon manipulation

fwiw: Been fine shooting the Gen1-3 Glock frames for many years but, with the Gen4 there is a OE option with minor "enhancements" that might be "improvements" to some. Trying to see if the Juice is worth the squeeze on changing out.

[FChen17213]

I can't speak for others, but for me, the answer is yes. Gen4 is a bit faster and easier. On the pro timer, I've shaved an average of .15 sec on my shot to shot. This is shot to shot with slide lock reload. I have smaller hands though...at least in my opinion. That being said, I still use Gen3 very often due to other reasons. I will say that I think the Gen4 issues have been mostly worked out in both the newer G17s and G19s.

I agree with the above posts though. The important thing is to keep training and building those neurological pathways. Burn those pathways into your brain until you ideally have good subconscious gun handling skills. That will take a lot of good repetitions.

[Yojimbo]

My primary carry is a Gen 3 G19 and I have medium sized hands. Using the support hand thumb on the mag release eliminates having to shift your grip on the pistol. I learned this technique years ago from the late Paul Gomez and I've found it to work really well for me.

See this video by Paul on maintaining the full firing grip. He explains using the support hand thumb on the mag release.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?list=PLI5UnCaw12ivZ4sP6ld4hoty4f6F46wVp&feature=player_detailpage&v=foKToYxAAxM

[kevN]

The gen4 can also be converted to trigger finger side for the mag release. On the TacTV glock episode SuperDave Harrington endorsed that option.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Intransigent]

I have Gen 2, 3, and 4 Glocks in 9mm, I don't think the juice is worth the squeeze to go from a Vickers release in G3 to the larger pad in G4. I believe the Vickers part addresses the shortcoming of the factory part well. Having spent so much time with the Gen2-3 mag release location that I don't really agonize over the reload. If I were buying the pistol new, I might go with the Gen4, because I have a good one and the larger surface area is nice but the earlier version works just fine for me. Practicing reloads is part of my dry fire practice with old, worn out mags (my wife hates this when we are watching T.V. or a movie, "Stop with the Clickety-Clickety!").

[Surf]

I do not have large hands or long fingers so I cannot reach the magazine release on a Gen 3 without shifting my primary hands grip on the pistol. While I am an old school 1911 guy and am used to "flipping" the pistol, I still find that method to be less efficient and does from time to time cause more inconsistency when I re-establish the grip and presenting back on target. If I don't hit it right the first time, it may indeed slow my follow up shot after the reload or cause a decrease in accuracy if I don't slow things down. This is not a consistent issue but it does happen on occasion, enough to make me want a better alternative.

Because of this above issue I do indeed like the Gen4 without any backstraps. The shorter reach profile of the Gen4 grip and the larger sized magazine release button allows me to maintain my primary shooting hand grip throughout the reload. It isn't faster mechanically to do a physical reload, but the speed comes from not having that momentary pause if I didn't hit the grip correct. With the Gen 4 magazine release button I also re-contour the factory button itself which IMO is a big improvement on even the already enlarged Gen4 magazine release button.

I will note that I also run a factory extended slide stop as I cannot reach the stock slide stop lever with the primary shooting hands thumb as indeed I use the slide stop as a slide release. It may sound like over thinking or splitting hairs to some, but I had a video at one time comparing 4 methods. My slide stop reload technique is just as fast as a pure speed reload and just as consistent. It is over .5 of a second quicker than the next method where I use the off hand thumb to release the slide. Yes I do split hairs at this point in my shooting and a half a second is a big difference.

[SPDGG]

Thank you to everyone above for the feedback :)

[SPDGG]

I do not have large hands or long fingers so I cannot reach the magazine release on a Gen 3 without shifting my primary hands grip on the pistol. While I am an old school 1911 guy and am used to "flipping" the pistol, I still find that method to be less efficient and does from time to time cause more inconsistency when I re-establish the grip and presenting back on target. If I don't hit it right the first time, it may indeed slow my follow up shot after the reload or cause a decrease in accuracy if I don't slow things down. This is not a consistent issue but it does happen on occasion, enough to make me want a better alternative.

Because of this above issue I do indeed like the Gen4 without any backstraps. The shorter reach profile of the Gen4 grip and the larger sized magazine release button allows me to maintain my primary shooting hand grip throughout the reload. It isn't faster mechanically to do a physical reload, but the speed comes from not having that momentary pause if I didn't hit the grip correct. With the Gen 4 magazine release button I also re-contour the factory button itself which IMO is a big improvement on even the already enlarged Gen4 magazine release button.

I will note that I also run a factory extended slide stop as I cannot reach the stock slide stop lever with the primary shooting hands thumb as indeed I use the slide stop as a slide release. It may sound like over thinking or splitting hairs to some, but I had a video at one time comparing 4 methods. My slide stop reload technique is just as fast as a pure speed reload and just as consistent. It is over .5 of a second quicker than the next method where I use the off hand thumb to release the slide. Yes I do split hairs at this point in my shooting and a half a second is a big difference.
^ BIG Thanks to "Surf". Greatly appreciate the depth of info. Your experience/post Hit it on the nail & why I posted looking for feedback between the two frames.
- Seriously, Thank you for the detailed post.

Everything you posted I can relate with 100% & AGREE with you 100% = Hand size, Flipping, reach, reacquiring/position, Inconsistencies.
* Practiced various methods over the years, but nothing beats your primary hand releasing both mag/slide catch. Eliminating the amount of grip shift & reacquiring is a Big Deal, at least for those with smaller hands.

imho: I can't change my hand size no matter how hard I train.

I see ergonomics the same as any other fitment application: Baseball, Golf, Tennis, Archery, Rifle Comb Height-LOP; etc.
- Each person is built different & to get the most of anything, you want hardware to fit the software. Software of course being the performance variable with each.

[ST911]

I have both gen3 and gen4 guns, and quantified performance on both. There isn't much difference in raw task time between models. However, there is greater consistency with the gen4 than gen3 due to the reduced grip circumference and subtle change to grip angle. I see it most in reloads, where I am less likely to ride the slide top, get more consistent slide lock when empty, and hit the mag release more definitively without any shift. In rhythm drills, the aggressive grip texture keeps my grip in place.

I'm in the process of swapping all my gen3s over to gen4s.

[givo08]

I run a gen4 G35 in USPSA production and carry a gen3 G19 from time to time. My best USPSA reloads (not slide lock) on both are in the .85-.95 sec shot to shot range. Slide lock reloads top out around 1.1-1.2 sec on average.

I really notice no difference between the two, and I think this is splitting hairs. In my opinion, the biggest advantages to a gen4 are the grip texturing, the adjustments for smaller hands for trigger reach, and the reversible mag catch for lefties. If a gen 3 fits your hand, and you are right handed, I don't see a real pressing reason to switch if you already have the gen3's.