View Full Version : Reticle choice - Leupold Mark 6
I'm buying a Leupold Mark 6 1-6x30 soon. There's two reticle a to pick and I can't find a clear answer. One is the TMR-D and the other is the CMR-W. Does anybody have thoughts? This will be for fun at the range to start, maybe for 3 gun if I get into it, and maybe on a rare chance as a patrol duty gun optic.
In 1-6x flavor, I'm partial to the CMR-W, since it can very closely approximate the TA-31H at 4x. The TMR seems more useful on higher magnification stuff where the fine reticle subtensions would be more practical than a BDC, but that's just the logic that led me to get the CMR-W on mine.
Failure2Stop
02-17-14, 08:09
While I am not a particular fan of it, I have friends that are good shooters that like the CMR-W.
I personally prefer the TMR-D, but I need more time behind it before giving it a full recommendation.
ETA: most folks are not aware of the new TMR-D reticle, and will be thinking of the old TMR, which was not nearly as fast to the eye as the TMR-D.
alphableak83
02-18-14, 16:50
If I were you and using it for what you stated as, I would have gotten the TMR-D.
However, I purchased mine for different reasons and chose the CMR-W. I will say that the CMR-W is an awesome "battle rifle" reticle. You can do a lot of things more quickly with it when compared with your typical bdc reticles.
I have only had the mk6 for a couple weeks but am really a big fan. Only downside thus far is the eye box is very small when on 6x.
Can you articulate why you think I'd get the TMR-D, or why you in my shoes would? It's the one I'm leaning towards but I can't put my finger on why I like it more. I really know very very little about long range shooting and how reticles play a role.
If I were you and using it for what you stated as, I would have gotten the TMR-D.
However, I purchased mine for different reasons and chose the CMR-W. I will say that the CMR-W is an awesome "battle rifle" reticle. You can do a lot of things more quickly with it when compared with your typical bdc reticles.
I have only had the mk6 for a couple weeks but am really a big fan. Only downside thus far is the eye box is very small when on 6x.
Tmrd is a precision reticle. Cmr is essentially an acog reticle with wind holds added in.
Cmr will get you close enough for government work (lol), but differences in ammo, barrel, etc. wont make it technically correct for more precise shooting.
If I got a mk6, it'd have the tmrd reticle.
I'm basically regurgitating what Jack told me via PM, but I agree with it.
I ended up getting the h27d reticle on the mk8... And I kind of wish I saved a whole lot of money and got the tmrd on a mk6 instead.
Kind of.
Hmm... I think the reason we're split, and why the OP asked in the first place is that the application is vague - I think alpha and I latched onto the potential patrol rifle setup, and maybe TacOptics 3Gun setup, which both slightly favor the CMR (for anybody who's partial to ACOG type reticles), but for something where you'd actually work on precision stuff, or for having fun at both ends of the magnification range the TMR can be much better - certainly better if you'll be doing much with the scope dialed all the way up and actually use the turrets - for my part now that I've got a really good feel of the zero from 33yd out to 280yd, I'm not touching the turrets.
The comment that the eye box for the 6x being unforgiving is spot on - field of view is far from stellar as well. I still feel like the Mk6 is a great but slightly overweight 1-4x optic, that allows the user to keep cranking on the magnification dial and get more zoom at the cost of eyebox and field of view, as well as really good utility on the reticle; but this is a set of traits I'm fairly happy with for a 5.56 rifle I have the optic on - 6x gets used to look closer at stuff, or get a bit more out of supported shooting positions, for everything else the 4x is where I shoot better anyway.
All that said, I'm still biased by the other Leupold optic I own, which is a Mk4 TS30A2 with the old style TMR reticle, and the fact that the Mk4 is a 2.8-8.6x optic and not a low powered variable.
alphableak83
02-19-14, 17:50
Can you articulate why you think I'd get the TMR-D, or why you in my shoes would? It's the one I'm leaning towards but I can't put my finger on why I like it more. I really know very very little about long range shooting and how reticles play a role.
TehLlama pretty much hit it on the head. With the TMR you can play more on the range and get precise with it. Once you know your holds you can transition to taking it on patrol and 3 gun as well.
Basically, if you don't plan on using the reticle only as a man shooter then go with the TMR-D. It will be immensely more fun on the range then having a BDC.
However, if your only plan is to engage people on a two way range at distance both quickly and effectively, without remembering holds and wind calls, then I would go with the CMR-W. Its a great reticle to get on target, apply wind calls, and your elevation holds without getting into sniper math in the middle of a tic while you are using an m4 or scar. In return all of that reticle clutter is preset for a particular round, traveling at a preset velocity with all of the environmental factors already factored into it. Meaning no matter what, the BDC will never be "dead on".
This is why for your situation in what you will be using the mk6 for, I would go with the TMR-D over the CMR-W. I hope this makes sense to you.
Thanks guys. I ordered the TMR-D reticle one today. I appreciate the help.
I have both, and prefer CMR. Since MK6 is FFP, at 6X it is very difficult to make out the hasmarks on TMR for ranging/BDC. with CMR, once you shoot it at known distances with your ammo and confirm the ballistics, I think it will be a little easier to use. Also, the illuminated part of TMR are the large, thich hashes around the reticle while CMR illuminates the horseshoe and the dot which I like better.
PatrioticDisorder
02-21-14, 20:55
I have both, and prefer CMR. Since MK6 is FFP, at 6X it is very difficult to make out the hasmarks on TMR for ranging/BDC. with CMR, once you shoot it at known distances with your ammo and confirm the ballistics, I think it will be a little easier to use. Also, the illuminated part of TMR are the large, thich hashes around the reticle while CMR illuminates the horseshoe and the dot which I like better.
How is the illumination CMR-W vs. TMR-D?
PatrioticDisorder
02-21-14, 20:56
I have both, and prefer CMR. Since MK6 is FFP, at 6X it is very difficult to make out the hasmarks on TMR for ranging/BDC. with CMR, once you shoot it at known distances with your ammo and confirm the ballistics, I think it will be a little easier to use. Also, the illuminated part of TMR are the large, thich hashes around the reticle while CMR illuminates the horseshoe and the dot which I like better.
How is the illumination CMR-W vs. TMR-D?
It's about the same at 1X. However, when you zoom in, the illuminated parts on TMR will be around the center of the reticle, and useless as an aiming point, while on CMR the center dot is illuminated and can be used when shooting against targets in dark background.
How is the illumination CMR-W vs. TMR-D?
Failure2Stop
02-22-14, 07:27
I have both, and prefer CMR. Since MK6 is FFP, at 6X it is very difficult to make out the hasmarks on TMR for ranging/BDC. with CMR, once you shoot it at known distances with your ammo and confirm the ballistics, I think it will be a little easier to use. Also, the illuminated part of TMR are the large, thich hashes around the reticle while CMR illuminates the horseshoe and the dot which I like better.
I have no issue with mils at 6x.
I find that mils are a little tough for ranging at 4x, but still usable for holds.
Of course, your opinions are valid, I'm not saying that you are wrong, simply that my experience is different than yours.
It's about the same at 1X. However, when you zoom in, the illuminated parts on TMR will be around the center of the reticle, and useless as an aiming point, while on CMR the center dot is illuminated and can be used when shooting against targets in dark background.
Just center your target in the segmented ring.
Most applicable at 1x, but usable at mid to max magnification as well.
Definitely stands out better than the CMR-W at 1x with no illum on dark spots.
Unreconstructed
02-22-14, 18:07
I prefer the TMR-D and find the mils usable at 6x
I shoot 77 grain at range, and the Leup 5.56 reticle BDC In the CMR-W is calibrated for M855.
Leup 7.62 reticle BDC in the CMRW is callibrated for 175 gr., which will match 5.56 77 gr. better than CMRW 5.56 reticle
Any more opinions on these reticles?
I prefer a faster reticle that is accurate enough to get decent hits out to 400 yards- I believe I was hitting 10-12" plates. That is where I got with my ACOG before selling it then moving.
I like the mil scale on the CMR-W and its other ranging features along with the BDC, Which is why its winning me over. I shoot CBC 62gr normally so it may be close to M855- I never compared them at distance. Shooting M193 with my COG's BDC was not a drastic change so I assume it will be the same with the CMR.
The only downside I see with it is the 200m zero. Will a 200 yard zero work? How much the loss of 18yds effect it?
As with the TMR-D, I expect it to be a Mil reticle like my Vortex. So I do not have many questions regarding it.
But, how are both reticles NOT illuminated at 1x? Can they still be quickly used?
PatrioticDisorder
07-20-14, 07:50
Any more opinions on these reticles?
I prefer a faster reticle that is accurate enough to get decent hits out to 400 yards- I believe I was hitting 10-12" plates. That is where I got with my ACOG before selling it then moving.
I like the mil scale on the CMR-W and its other ranging features along with the BDC, Which is why its winning me over. I shoot CBC 62gr normally so it may be close to M855- I never compared them at distance. Shooting M193 with my COG's BDC was not a drastic change so I assume it will be the same with the CMR.
The only downside I see with it is the 200m zero. Will a 200 yard zero work? How much the loss of 18yds effect it?
As with the TMR-D, I expect it to be a Mil reticle like my Vortex. So I do not have many questions regarding it.
But, how are both reticles NOT illuminated at 1x? Can they still be quickly used?
F2S already stated TMR-D is quicker on 1x without illumination in post number 14, he has time on both and prefers TMR-D although he reported some like the CMR-W. I can tell you the CMR-W is plenty bright illuminated and I'd expect the TMR-D to be at least that bright and maybe a smidge easier to pick up.
If you run the numbers with the CMR-W vs. Whatever load you want to run you can see how close ballistically your load will match with the CMR-W reticle. You could also plug in 50, 75 and 100 yard zeroes to help get your load to better match your BDC (at least at distances that are relevant). For example I've crunched the numbers and if you wanted to use XM193 with the 5.56 CMR-W then you should be very close using a 100 yard zero out to 500-600 yards...
If you run the numbers with the CMR-W vs. Whatever load you want to run you can see how close ballistically your load will match with the CMR-W reticle. You could also plug in 50, 75 and 100 yard zeroes to help get your load to better match your BDC (at least at distances that are relevant). For example I've crunched the numbers and if you wanted to use XM193 with the 5.56 CMR-W then you should be very close using a 100 yard zero out to 500-600 yards...
Thanks. I will keep that in mind. Once I get start getting out to at least 400 yards I would test the BDC with different loads and zeros.
I could not tell from your post, but do you have the MK6 in the CMR-W, if so how are you liking it?
PatrioticDisorder
07-20-14, 10:46
Thanks. I will keep that in mind. Once I get start getting out to at least 400 yards I would test the BDC with different loads and zeros.
I could not tell from your post, but do you have the MK6 in the CMR-W, if so how are you liking it?
No I don't, I have looked through them. I've been wanting one for a while now but too many irons in the fire with me buying any and all NFA related stuff before the end of the year I likely won't have one until some point next year.
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