Review: Raven Vanguard 2 Holster [Archive]

View Full Version : Review: Raven Vanguard 2 Holster

Voodoo_Man

02-18-14, 13:25

http://i.imgur.com/VjmmtuW.jpg

Description:
Per the manufacturer's website, the VG2 is a minimalistic holster. It is injection molded plastic and attaches to the pistol via the trigger guard. This holster is designed specifically for "deep carry" and should not be put into the same realm as other AIWB/traditional holsters. I have had the VG2 for well over a year, bought it around the time they came out as I was not a big fan of the original VG kydex model. I bought it directly from the Raven website, paying retail for the full kit. I bought the kit because I wanted to try the cord to belt as well as their pull the dot setup.

The holster measures 3.625 inches from the bottom of screw attachment tab to top of trigger guard. With the strut attached it measures 4.5 inches long. It measures 1.25 inches wide without the strut and about two inches wide from pull the dot leather loop to end of holster. It is about 1.25 inches deep. There is no clearance between the first finger groove of my Gen4 G19 and pants. The Glock is exposed roughly 2.25 inches in the belt.

Read the full review at: http://vdmsr.blogspot.com/2014/02/raven-vanguard-2-holster.html

ggammell

02-18-14, 14:40

This holster played a huge part in me getting a Glock 27. I never thought I'd go IWB. I have been carrying a G23 with the VG2 for a year now. It's been eye opening. With the G23 looking at retirement soon and a G22 on the way to replace it, getting the G27 was a no brainer for off duty carry.

CoryCop25

02-18-14, 14:58

Excellent review Vodoo! I have this holster and my view of it mirrors yours.

JHC

02-18-14, 17:34

I've tried a few different holsters since first carrying AIWB in the early '80's and I think the VG2 is the most comfortable and concealable I have used (including some premiums). While one cannot reholster one handed; AIWB reholster is as safe as it can be; which is something.

JHC

02-18-14, 17:46

Voodoo_Man

02-18-14, 18:05

Voodoo man -

Can you expound on this point you made in the review? "This holster is designed specifically for "deep carry" and should not be put into the same realm as other AIWB/traditional holsters. "

You stated it; but I'd like to hear your rationale. I ask why not? I define deep carry as deep. As in its not going to be as quickly drawn like ankle, pocket, belly band under tucked in shirt, Smart Carry, and the deep carry like. Is it just the reholster thing for training reps (plus the heat)? Because functionally it's pretty much an AIWB holster.

When the VG2 was first released; Southnarc reported that they had been running them in beta testing through many evolutions of ECQC without weapon security problems. FWIW

It is an AIWB holster, I agree. By "deep carry" I meant it is invisible to many who are watching it. The issues I listed, lack of sight protection, potential magazine release issues as well as loud audible snap sound when drawing (or reholstering) make this holster a no-go.

Let me put it another way - if you knew you were going to get into a physical confrontation, that led to a shootout, would you bring this holster over another? I wouldn't for the reasons listed. While I understand Southnarc may have reported they are good to go, I have had holsters before that were labeled "good to go" and when I put them through a physical training session they crack, do not allow for proper deployment and do not protect the gun. You can see my G19 in that picture, its had the crap beaten out of it. I have broken front sights several times on this gun, during training and not even that physical of training.

It has its place, but its place is not like other AIWB/traditional holsters.

TomF

02-18-14, 18:28

Let me put it another way - if you knew you were going to get into a physical confrontation, that led to a shootout, would you bring this holster over another?

Full disclosure- I'm a former RCS employee who was involved with the development of the VG2.

I don't go planning for a gunfight at the start of my day, but I go as prepared as possible given my specific lifestyle parameters. One of those preparations is a G19 in a VG2, so yeah, I guess you could say I choose it over all others.

In the end, you're applying critiques to this product that you haven't experienced or proven. Is it a level 3 duty rig? Absolutely not. But compared to another open top AIWB holster? I think you might be surprised at what it can take. That was the tone of Southnarc's original comments - the VG2 is no worse than many other popular level 1 AIWB holsters out there (paraphrased, I am not trying to put words into Craig's mouth).

You're absolutely entitled to an opinion, but it should be based in experience rather than conjecture.

Voodoo_Man

02-18-14, 18:40

Full disclosure- I'm a former RCS employee who was involved with the development of the VG2.

I don't go planning for a gunfight at the start of my day, but I go as prepared as possible given my specific lifestyle parameters. One of those preparations is a G19 in a VG2, so yeah, I guess you could say I choose it over all others.

In the end, you're applying critiques to this product that you haven't experienced or proven. Is it a level 3 duty rig? Absolutely not. But compared to another open top AIWB holster? I think you might be surprised at what it can take. That was the tone of Southnarc's original comments - the VG2 is no worse than many other popular level 1 AIWB holsters out there (paraphrased, I am not trying to put words into Craig's mouth).

You're absolutely entitled to an opinion, but it should be based in experience rather than conjecture.

I believe I made it entirely clear that I used this holster before reviewing it. I did not open the box and do the review posted, as many others have.

I never said the holster cannot take the abuse, in fact I said the retention is excellent. I listed the reasons why the VG2 is a no go, if you choose to read and understand them, that is on you.

You are correct, I did not take this holster to war, did you? That is not the context of my review but from a practical application of the holster which I experienced.

Read my review, actually sit there and read every sentence. If you feel as though it is just conjecture and not based on real life experience then we are on two different planets.

Dollylamma

02-18-14, 19:48

Voodoo- thanks for the review. You may have mentioned this, but what kind of front sites were broken during your training?

TomF

02-18-14, 21:34

I believe I made it entirely clear that I used this holster before reviewing it. I did not open the box and do the review posted, as many others have.

I never said the holster cannot take the abuse, in fact I said the retention is excellent. I listed the reasons why the VG2 is a no go, if you choose to read and understand them, that is on you.

You are correct, I did not take this holster to war, did you? That is not the context of my review but from a practical application of the holster which I experienced.

Read my review, actually sit there and read every sentence. If you feel as though it is just conjecture and not based on real life experience then we are on two different planets.

I did read the review, but my reply here was mostly aimed at your post. There is a pre-conceived notion among many that the VG2 can't quite be a "real holster" because of it's size. For some, they require one handed reholstering and that automatically rules this one out, I get that.

I took issue with the suggestion that the VG2 was not as durable as other options within its category (level 1 retention IWB holsters). Among those doing the work, that is simply untrue.

Let me word it to you this way- Where has your VG2 failed that a holster within the same category has excelled? Have you lost retention of your weapon or broken sights as you mentioned above?

I don't really have a dog in this fight, I'm not compensated to defend this product, but some of your review appears to me to be riding on first impressions rather than definitive testing. You have highlighted a number of features I personally like about it and I think your review was thorough overall. I do appreciate your willingness to respond civilly even if there is a disagreement on interpretation.

MegademiC

02-18-14, 21:56

I have similar feelings about it. I love the holster for what it is, and I train with it quite often as I use it to EDC... I can hide an mp fs no problem with it... but if im wearing a jacket or doing any other type of training other than concealed draw practice - im using the als.

I don't doubt the durability of it (my VG 1 cracked, VG2 is a MUCH better design in every way), but the use of it is just not the same as a full sized holster - go figure :cool:

Voodoo_Man

02-19-14, 03:10

Voodoo- thanks for the review. You may have mentioned this, but what kind of front sites were broken during your training?

I have broken two sets of AmeriGlo pro-i sights and a set of their CAP sights.

I did read the review, but my reply here was mostly aimed at your post. There is a pre-conceived notion among many that the VG2 can't quite be a "real holster" because of it's size. For some, they require one handed reholstering and that automatically rules this one out, I get that.

I took issue with the suggestion that the VG2 was not as durable as other options within its category (level 1 retention IWB holsters). Among those doing the work, that is simply untrue.

Let me word it to you this way- Where has your VG2 failed that a holster within the same category has excelled? Have you lost retention of your weapon or broken sights as you mentioned above?

I don't really have a dog in this fight, I'm not compensated to defend this product, but some of your review appears to me to be riding on first impressions rather than definitive testing. You have highlighted a number of features I personally like about it and I think your review was thorough overall. I do appreciate your willingness to respond civilly even if there is a disagreement on interpretation.

As I stated in my review, the design overall, and what it does has improved over the original VG. The retention is excellent, and the holster makes for easy and effective concealment. The issues I have with it I stated, and they aren't issues I just assumed occur. I wore this holster for a good period of time, sometimes daily. But it is not on the same level as others.

I have went over the reasons in detail in my review and I do not care to retype them. I would suggest that you take a step back and consider what I am actually saying here, don't just have a knee jerk reaction because I was critical of a product from personal experience.

I specifically stayed away from doing the activities that would cause sight as to break and manifest magazine releases because I do not have the time or money to throw at a problem which can be avoided. I see these issues occurring because they have before with holsters that have similar characteristics, so running the holster until one of those things happens is pointless.

R0CKETMAN

02-19-14, 05:05

I have broken two sets of AmeriGlo pro-i sights and a set of their CAP sights.

you broke I-dots...that's odd...please elaborate

Voodoo_Man

02-19-14, 06:59

you broke I-dots...that's odd...please elaborate
Two I broke in training, just came loose and couldn't be tightened, just spun in place (the screw). Other had the orange filling fall out.

Before anyone cries poor install, Im not new to sight installation and know what I'm doing, it was the sights. Ameriglo did a great job of warranty replacing them, so huge plus one for that. I'm actually working on a review of the pro-I dots.

Jmacken37

02-19-14, 08:45

I usually carry my Kahr PM-9 front pocket. If/when I carry a glock, it is in a VG2. In my opinion, it is the best holster available for what it does.

TactTeam

02-19-14, 09:09

I would love to see a sight fragile enough to break while using the vg2 as when it is "in use" , the gun is in your pants and the sights would have to break while pressed against the wearer's skin or from a snag on clothing when drawing.

I have never used ameriglo so I cant speak to those but I have personally used trijicon sights to charge the weapon on a holster, boot, shield, wooden object, cinder block wall, etc.

I have also had a weapon come unholstered during training while going inverted about 30' up to break and rake for a hostage rescue entry. The sig frame cracked but it did not harm the sights at all.

I would not worry about this holster and quality combat sights. Your other impressions are user preferences based on thier intended use that will either make it a go or no go.

Voodoo_Man

02-19-14, 09:43

I have personally had two sets of oem glock trijicon sights break inside safariland holsters because of rough use. I worked with two other guys had same issue, spoke with range armorer who said its common with glock oem trijicon sights.

Had two sets ameriglos break from hard use, maybe three. Buddy of mine had a set of defoor front sight break off during training.

It happens, not really something that I would want to occur on a carry gun because poor planning.

TactTeam

02-19-14, 09:51

I have seen gas tubes come out, but never seen a sight shear off. The sight is still operational with a missing tube, though.

Its my understanding that oem glock sights only use teijicon tubes, not the entire metal sight. All of my Trijicon are aftermarket, not oem.

Defoor sights are actually manufctured by ameriglo. Mabe it is a difference in their metal that makes it more brittle and less resistant to shearing.

Im not saying it cannot happen but rather the fact that while the guns is holstered it isnt going to see the abuse strong enough to shear off a sight.

Voodoo_Man

02-19-14, 09:59

I have seen gas tubes come out, but never seen a sight shear off. The sight is still operational with a missing tube, though. Its my understanding that oem glock sights only use teijicon tubes, not the entire metal sight. All of my Trijicon are aftermarket, not oem.

Im not saying it cannot happen but rather the fact that while the guns is holstered it isnt going to see the abuse strong enough to shear off a sight.

I mean the front sight comes completely off or bends, becoming useless. Only reason I talk about it is because I have experienced it front hard use.

Just because a gun is holstered doesn't mean it is impervious to damage. A holster should serve as a layer of protection as well as retention.

TomF

02-19-14, 10:29

I would suggest that you take a step back and consider what I am actually saying here, don't just have a knee jerk reaction because I was critical of a product from personal experience.

It was not knee-jerk at all, I was looking for clarification on where the VG2 has failed you. Based on your further replies, I believe I can summarize that it has not failed you, but there are certain aspects you like/dislike based on your needs. The same could be said for a number of AIWB holsters. That was my original point and intent of posting.

FWIW, I think your review format and photo essays are nicely done. Have a good day.

Trajan

02-19-14, 11:28

I used a VG2 pretty much all of 2012 with my G17 with Dawson fiber optic front sight with the adjustable rear (my preferred irons). Never broke it. Swimming, hiking, picking up 100lbs+ oak logs and using my waist to hold them, whatever, the VG 2 performed.

Need to hide a real sized gun with no printing? VG 2 is your answer. It's just not a class type holster.

I owe the VG 2 quite a bit. It is the holster that got me into AIWB, it is also the holster that got me to carry everywhere.

CCK

02-19-14, 20:27

I have one of these too. I had the original VG and like it with a clip draw but find the VG2 superior. What I have done to mitigate some movement was to buy this http://www.amazon.com/Galco-TBL13-Triton-Belt-Loops/dp/B0048KMJAC/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1392863096&sr=8-4&keywords=galco+triton

and attach so the loop not attached to the strut is closer to the slide. I find that it does not change the concealment of the gun but does add stability.

Thanks for the review,

Chris

Voodoo_Man

02-20-14, 03:31

R0CKETMAN

02-20-14, 04:31

Two I broke in training, just came loose and couldn't be tightened, just spun in place (the screw). Other had the orange filling fall out.

Before anyone cries poor install, Im not new to sight installation and know what I'm doing, it was the sights. Ameriglo did a great job of warranty replacing them, so huge plus one for that. I'm actually working on a review of the pro-I dots.

gotcha..so the lack of FS coverage being a contributing factor. I've got 7 of 8 IDots on the front of Glocks and think they could do a better job with "fitment" to the slide. Too much lateral play.

I need a vanguard to attachment to my motorcycle pack.

Beat Trash

02-20-14, 09:06

JHC

02-20-14, 10:24

Does anyone use a VG2 in other than a AWIB carry? I'm looking for feedback for anyone using one in about the 3:30-4:00 position. Gun would be a Glock 19. BUt anything from a M&P9c to a M&P9fs or a Glock 17 would help me get an idea how well this would work.

I have. It's a plan B. It minimally functionally works IWB but no where near as slick. IMO.

sparky-kb

02-20-14, 11:55

Nice review. I'm also a huge fan of the VG2. I primarily use it with a G26 under a t-shirt during the summer and agree that it's about as low profile/comfortable as can be. I also like It for long car trips since it's really easy to pop on and off.

I did make a minor modification to mine that has made it more comfortable for me. I cut off that little lanyard loop with a pocket knife and then sanded it smooth so it looks factory finished and doesn't dig into me anymore.

http://i1091.photobucket.com/albums/i394/sparky-kb/Guns%20and%20Gear/G26Vanguard_zpsb6ee5c55.jpg (http://s1091.photobucket.com/user/sparky-kb/media/Guns%20and%20Gear/G26Vanguard_zpsb6ee5c55.jpg.html)

MegademiC

02-20-14, 17:47

Does anyone use a VG2 in other than a AWIB carry? I'm looking for feedback for anyone using one in about the 3:30-4:00 position. Gun would be a Glock 19. BUt anything from a M&P9c to a M&P9fs or a Glock 17 would help me get an idea how well this would work.

Quite a few times, it works well. If you were carrying mostly 4:00 I'd opt for something else, but if you aiwb and carry 4:00 occasionally,the vg2 works well.

ggammell

02-20-14, 22:05

Does anyone use a VG2 in other than a AWIB carry? I'm looking for feedback for anyone using one in about the 3:30-4:00 position. Gun would be a Glock 19. BUt anything from a M&P9c to a M&P9fs or a Glock 17 would help me get an idea how well this would work.

I go pretty close to 3:00 on a Glock 23. I like it a lot. A slight forward cant and it's good to go. Even if it straightens up it's still nearly invisible. AIWB just doesn't fit my body style.

TactTeam

02-21-14, 07:15

I did make a minor modification to mine that has made it more comfortable for me. I cut off that little lanyard loop with a pocket knife and then sanded it smooth so it looks factory finished and doesn't dig into me anymore.

http://i1091.photobucket.com/albums/i394/sparky-kb/Guns%20and%20Gear/G26Vanguard_zpsb6ee5c55.jpg (http://s1091.photobucket.com/user/sparky-kb/media/Guns%20and%20Gear/G26Vanguard_zpsb6ee5c55.jpg.html)

Thats a good Idea. Might have to pick up a third vg2 to chop up. (Right now Im just rocking 2 limited run versions and dont want to mod them).