View Full Version : NG Soldiers Disgrace the Fallen
Wow. The level of disrespect is stunning.
http://fox6now.com/2014/02/18/wis-national-guard-investigates-military-funeral-honors-controversy/
I couldn't help but notice the lack of former wartime service insignia on the right shoulders. Perhaps a deployment to Kunar Provence is warranted for these soldiers to fix their maturity problem. There are a few small FOBs that could use a hand...
platoonDaddy
02-18-14, 20:50
Frigging beyond belief!
Time for some UCMJ to kick-in!
montanadave
02-18-14, 20:52
I can understand a group of guys, after spending a lengthy period of time rehearsing a solemn military service, taking a moment to cut up a little. From what I read, it's a "training casket" and there were no actual remains involved. What I can't understand is why any of these guys would post these pictures on a social media site. The lack of judgement is a greater concern to me.
Working in the medical field, I've heard and participated in more than a few conversations infused with a healthy dose of gallows humor that I'm confident would have caused patients and family members to blanche. But I never saw anyone stupid enough to record it and put it on the internet.
scoutfsu99
02-18-14, 21:39
Not the first time stuff like this has happened. They should slam them. They're adults and old enough to know right and wrong.
From another forum:
http://cmsimg.airforcetimes.com/apps/pbcsi.dll/bilde?Site=M6&Date=20111213&Category=NEWS&ArtNo=112130303&Ref=AR&MaxW=640&Border=0&Casket-photo-sparks-investigation-Lackland
https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/t1/1656101_675695029159242_2133315542_n.jpg
They should make these worthless pricks cycle through evolutions of nut crunchers until half of them wind up in the hospital. Then they should deploy them all to hostile areas and make them pull latrine duty during mortar attacks.
Then they should come up with some form of harsh punishment.
REMF's!
montanadave
02-18-14, 21:47
Yeah, that second set of pics kinda seals the deal. Cutting the tension with a little humor is one thing. Making a mockery of the ceremony and lost/missing service members is way over the line.
Not the first time stuff like this has happened. They should slam them. They're adults and old enough to know right and wrong.
http://www.military.com/daily-news/2014/02/15/air-force-will-take-action-over-pow-mia-emblem-photo.html?ESRC=army.nl
Received this in email today from friend. This made me say somethings I don't normally speak anymore.
Moose-Knuckle
02-18-14, 21:58
They should make these worthless pricks cycle through evolutions of nut crunchers until half of them wind up in the hospital. Then they should deploy them all to hostile areas and make them pull latrine duty during mortar attacks.
Then they should come up with some form of harsh punishment.
REMF's!
After they pull shit burner detail they should be made to walk and find mines the old fashioned way.
After they pull shit burner detail they should be made to walk and find mines the old fashioned way.
That is still too easy. Route Clearance by ground pounding 1 boot at a time would still be too easy. Belly crawl all of Afghanistan is getting better.
When I saw the "Sucks 2 be U" I threw a TIA.
No humor there. USAF CC duty seems appropriate......maybe an EXTENDED stay in RC East........"Oh, time to rotate out? Uh, we lost your paperwork......but the XX Cav needs a combat controller, last one just got hit!"
POS, all of them.
Maybe after a few of them get the shit kicked out of them, some combat veterans can stand around their hospital bed and smile for photos and put them on the internet.
Maybe after a few of them get the shit kicked out of them, some combat veterans can stand around their hospital bed and smile for photos and put them on the internet.
I am in.
Wow. The level of disrespect is stunning.
http://fox6now.com/2014/02/18/wis-national-guard-investigates-military-funeral-honors-controversy/
I couldn't help but notice the lack of former wartime service insignia on the right shoulders. Perhaps a deployment to Kunar Provence is warranted for these soldiers to fix their maturity problem. There are a few small FOBs that could use a hand...
But how exactly do we deal with the nationwide problem of self-obsessed, narcissistic, nihilistic, perpetually emotionally and psychologically adolescent dimwits, who have descended like a plague upon modern civilisation, which produced cretins such as this?
http://petapixel.com/2014/02/06/high-school-girl-takes-selfie-cadaver-wins-vote-repulsive-selfie/
http://www.stripes.com/news/us/air-force-will-take-appropriate-action-over-viral-pow-mia-emblem-photo-1.267780
Moose-Knuckle
02-19-14, 03:18
But how exactly do we deal with the nationwide problem of self-obsessed, narcissistic, nihilistic, perpetually emotionally and psychologically adolescent dimwits, who have descended like a plague upon modern civilisation, which produced cretins such as this?
http://petapixel.com/2014/02/06/high-school-girl-takes-selfie-cadaver-wins-vote-repulsive-selfie/
http://www.stripes.com/news/us/air-force-will-take-appropriate-action-over-viral-pow-mia-emblem-photo-1.267780
Well the methodology in which to deal with such umm "people" would not be accepted as "legal" or "politically correct" by the modern standards of our society. However history tells us that wrongs will be made right through eradication. All great civilizations decay from within.
I seriously doubt this people considered that their pic may have been taken out of context when they took it. We ALL know soldiers can sometimes have a strange sense of humor. And I strongly suspect they are all thinking "oh shit, that was dumb" about now.....
About now, before the advent of instant camera's, social networking that the internet, a good First Sergeant would have them all burning shit while he screamed at them to get their head out of their ass, and the Company Commander would be standing over at the side just shaking his head. Sometimes the instant availablity of worldwide broadcast of stupidity isn't a good thing. BUT WE DO NOT NEED TO OVERKILL THIS. I suspect that 90% of those in the pic are good soldiers, who a good ass-chewing will make them even better.
But how exactly do we deal with the nationwide problem of self-obsessed, narcissistic, nihilistic, perpetually emotionally and psychologically adolescent dimwits, who have descended like a plague upon modern civilisation, which produced cretins such as this?
http://petapixel.com/2014/02/06/high-school-girl-takes-selfie-cadaver-wins-vote-repulsive-selfie/
http://www.stripes.com/news/us/air-force-will-take-appropriate-action-over-viral-pow-mia-emblem-photo-1.267780
Maybe a start would be for parents to stop naming their kids things like "Cherish" and letting them grow up being told constantly they are "extra special."
Of course this is nothing new, people will be as screwed up as society permits them to be. Currently we are an extremely permissive society that tolerates LOTS of things. Even worse when somebody does something wrong, instead of being corrected, they are often told it isn't their fault and allowances are made.
When I was in 6th grade I knew better than to pull any of that shit and it wasn't because the military had taught me better. All it takes is a parent who is more interested in making sure you are a good person rather than trying to be your BFF.
SilverBullet432
02-19-14, 12:25
Asshats, asshats everywhere!
Maybe a start would be for parents to stop naming their kids things like "Cherish" and letting them grow up being told constantly they are "extra special."
Unfortunately good parenting went out the window some time ago.
Of course this is nothing new, people will be as screwed up as society permits them to be. Currently we are an extremely permissive society that tolerates LOTS of things. Even worse when somebody does something wrong, instead of being corrected, they are often told it isn't their fault and allowances are made.
Yep.
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-iX20cY6qLZ4/Ua0S2PM8DGI/AAAAAAAAAOw/vKrDeV9bfsY/s1600/400000000000000174973_s4.jpg
When I was in 6th grade I knew better than to pull any of that shit and it wasn't because the military had taught me better. All it takes is a parent who is more interested in making sure you are a good person rather than trying to be your BFF.
Our Decadent Elites
by Peggy Noonan
"We’re at a funny point in our political culture. To have judgment is to be an elitist. To have dignity is to be yesterday. To have standards is to be a hypocrite—you won’t always meet standards even when they’re your own, so why have them?"
http://blogs.wsj.com/peggynoonan/2014/02/18/our-decadent-elites/
Drop the word "political" from her commentary and the sentiment is still accurate.
Only people capable of self-control are capable of self-government.
"No free government, or the blessings of liberty, can be preserved to any people, but by a firm adherence to justice, moderation, temperance, frugality and virtue, and by frequent recurrence to fundamental principles."
-George Mason
"A general dissolution of the principles and manners will more surely overthrow the liberties of America than the whole force of the common enemy.... While the people are virtuous they cannot be subdued; but once they lose their virtue, they will be ready to surrender their liberties"
-Samuel Adams
CarlosDJackal
02-19-14, 15:59
My first thought when viewing that picture was "Who the hell was in charge of that detail?" As a former Officer myself, I would never have let that picture see the light of day. If they want to do something that goofy, they can take a picture without the casket OR the American Flag.
The HMFIC needs to stand before the man and these Soldiers should receive a Negative Counseling Statement at the very least.
I suspect that 90% of those in the pic are good soldiers, who a good ass-chewing will make them even better.
What?! You can't be serious. A good soldier recognizes when it's time to **** around and when it's time to maintain their military bearing. Those soldiers displayed a severe lack of character and judgement with their actions.
In addition, the leadership there needs some scrutinizing. The NCOs should have been doing a FAR better job of instilling a sense of solemn duty on that detail. Period.
There is a screenshot floating around FB of that female Soldier's team leader who tries to justify the actions of her Soldier. It's infuriating.
I can understand a group of guys, after spending a lengthy period of time rehearsing a solemn military service, taking a moment to cut up a little. From what I read, it's a "training casket" and there were no actual remains involved. What I can't understand is why any of these guys would post these pictures on a social media site. The lack of judgement is a greater concern to me.
Working in the medical field, I've heard and participated in more than a few conversations infused with a healthy dose of gallows humor that I'm confident would have caused patients and family members to blanche. But I never saw anyone stupid enough to record it and put it on the internet.
This. Doing a thing and recording a thing in a media for others to see (pics, vid, etc) and posting for public viewing are two very different things. The judgement fail here is off the charts. The lack of character for the act is a given, the lack of judgment for the rest is astounding.
Maybe a start would be for parents to stop naming their kids things like "Cherish" and letting them grow up being told constantly they are "extra special".
I am so stealing this for work.
What?! You can't be serious. A good soldier recognizes when it's time to **** around and when it's time to maintain their military bearing. Those soldiers displayed a severe lack of character and judgement with their actions.
In addition, the leadership there needs some scrutinizing. The NCOs should have been doing a FAR better job of instilling a sense of solemn duty on that detail. Period.
There is a screenshot floating around FB of that female Soldier's team leader who tries to justify the actions of her Soldier. It's infuriating.
Effin THANK YOU. If ANYBODY should know better than this kind of shit, it should be members of the military.
There is a discipline problem in this unit and the CO needs to chew the asses of everyone in the Chain of Command between the CO and the people who pulled this bone headed stunt. Everyone involved in the incident need to lose some stripes.
mkmckinley
02-19-14, 20:42
I agree but the sad fact remains that there are different shades of "in the military".
SeriousStudent
02-19-14, 20:50
A longtime ago, I spent a month performing burial details in southern California. In the summer, in my dress blues. I still have my NCO sword that I carried on that detail. I'd probably use it to smite someone, if I ever witnessed something like this.
I am curious. What did they think the reaction would be, coming from the families of those they laid to rest? You can never present a folded flag to a crying widow, or a stunned child, and not be changed. I still have that speech burned into my head.
I'd burn something different into their brains, assuming they have one.
Warriors deserve infinitely better than this.
I am so stealing this for work.
Please do. One of the worst things I was ever handicapped with as a child was being told how "unique" and "special" I was so I basically tried to coast through anything hard because I had that "special edge" and that simply translated into me not understanding how things went wrong and then trying to play catch up.
Not surprisingly, one of the few things I developed real talent for at an early age was in the martial arts. Of course that was "pre Karate Kid" days when instructors didn't tell you how awesome you were. We were told when we were slow, sloppy or weak and you knew it was "passable" when your instructor only had a few criticisms.
Knowing exactly where the bar is and where you are in relation to that bar is far more useful than any bullshit motivational technique. It's one thing if you are from an affluent family and they can afford to carry your ass and have hookups to make sure you don't dig ditches for a living, but if you are going to go out in the real world on your own, it's better to not have a bunch of delusions about how you are better than everyone else you come into contact with.
A longtime ago, I spent a month performing burial details in southern California. In the summer, in my dress blues. I still have my NCO sword that I carried on that detail. I'd probably use it to smite someone, if I ever witnessed something like this.
I am curious. What did they think the reaction would be, coming from the families of those they laid to rest? You can never present a folded flag to a crying widow, or a stunned child, and not be changed. I still have that speech burned into my head.
I'd burn something different into their brains, assuming they have one.
Warriors deserve infinitely better than this.
If I wasn't worried they'd somehow **** it up, I'd actually sentence each one of them to exactly that duty. Maybe then they'd be able to figure it out. But given how they can't be trusted to exercise good judgement, I hope they go with T2Cs plan.
Belmont31R
02-19-14, 22:55
Amazing how many people can be ****ed up all at once.
What?! You can't be serious. A good soldier recognizes when it's time to **** around and when it's time to maintain their military bearing. Those soldiers displayed a severe lack of character and judgement with their actions.
In addition, the leadership there needs some scrutinizing. The NCOs should have been doing a FAR better job of instilling a sense of solemn duty on that detail. Period.
There is a screenshot floating around FB of that female Soldier's team leader who tries to justify the actions of her Soldier. It's infuriating.
There are two soldiers in the back row (left side as you view the photo) that look uncomfortable to me, I think they did not think the class photo was appropriate.
FWIW, if you guys are interested, the WI Nat'l Guard Facebook page has several posts addressing this issue. Nothing seems to be happening other than "we're investigating," but at least it's getting attention of the higher ups.
Oh, and if you find this topic on TOS, there's some good links to various articles once you scroll past the folks getting PO'd.
There are two soldiers in the back row (left side as you view the photo) that look uncomfortable to me, I think they did not think the class photo was appropriate.
Yeah and the 0317s pissing on talibs looked like they didn't want to do it either, but they got hammered didn't they.
And those that say military folks won't take arms against civilians if ordered !
Look at these folks cause they will be the one to do it if it happens !
brushy bill
02-20-14, 19:50
Reprehensible.
Grand58742
02-27-14, 15:16
Related acts and didn't want to start a new thread:
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/stupid-selfie-soldier-posts-pic-avoiding-flag-salute-article-1.1702076
A U.S. Army soldier is in hot water for snapping a selfie and boasting about hiding in her car to avoid saluting the flag. Pfc. Tariqka Sheffey is catching serious heat for uploading the image, where she appears in full uniform, to Instagram.
Related acts and didn't want to start a new thread:
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/stupid-selfie-soldier-posts-pic-avoiding-flag-salute-article-1.1702076
My goodness, that one just, well let's just say I'm extremely disappointed that anyone in our military would conduct themselves in the manner described in your example and the other ones in this thread. I'm not one to bury someone over a lack of respect and poor judgement by suggesting "Dishonorable Discharges" for all involved, BUT "General Discharges" for the ones in charge and loss of rank and privileges for the subordinates for conduct unbecoming of a soldier. The Army wants to cut back on personnel, well there's probably no better place than to start with these yahoos. :(
TurretGunner
02-27-14, 16:23
BFG. As a combat vet and someone who has done funeral details... this is a non story.
A bunch of pogues joking around.
The shit I have seen, heard and said would make most women have a heart attack. Has zero to do with a solder who can and will do their job when they need to.
Anyone not a vet has no business if even talking about it. Those that are, need to come down off their high horse. Either they are hypocrits or must have been shitty company to be around durring shit details and jobs.
:rolleyes:
BFG. As a combat vet and someone who has done funeral details... this is a non story.
A bunch of pogues joking around.
The shit I have seen, heard and said would make most women have a heart attack. Has zero to do with a solder who can and will do their job when they need to.
Anyone not a vet has no business if even talking about it. Those that are, need to come down off their high horse. Either they are hypocrits or must have been shitty company to be around durring shit details and jobs.
Agreed. We need to start a military only sub-forum so that only vets can comment on the retarded shit that some of our fellow service members do. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to people who rises and sleep under the blanket of the very freedom that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it....:rolleyes:
snackgunner
02-27-14, 20:32
If any of those pogues were ever in Iraq or Afghanistan and they actually went outside the wire on patrol and saw one of their brother's get shot or killed I guarantee they would have never have pulled what they did in the photo.
Look, we've all done some crazy, stupid stuff, and said some downright offensive things in our lifetime. I sure as hell wouldn't be putting up any evidence of it on social media sites. To be in uniform, representing the armed forces of the USA and those veterans that came before them, and then have the serious lack of judgement in allowing it to be posted in the public domain, how could they not have expected the public's backlash. They put their superiors in a position to react overaggressively due to public pressure whether it's deserved or not.
brushy bill
02-27-14, 22:04
I'm retired mil and I completely disagree with your post. We owe the American citizen much better. Don't have to be a vet to comment on bad conduct and abhorrent behavior by those in uniform. You consider paying homage to our fallen comrades as "shit detail"??? Trying to give you the benefit of doubt, but totally confused by your post.
This has nothing to do with a bunch of active duty personnel acting out and everything to do with them showing lack of respect for our fallen comrades.
I don't see anything wrong with those who are not Veterans making comments.
Belmont31R
02-27-14, 22:18
I'm retired mil and I completely disagree with your post. We owe the American citizen much better. Don't have to be a vet to comment on bad conduct and abhorrent behavior by those in uniform. You consider paying homage to our fallen comrades as "shit detail"??? Trying to give you the benefit of doubt, but totally confused by your post.
Having been in a unit that did that detail the vast majority are retirees that haven't been in a uniform in decades. I'm not making excuses for this behavior but with the tempo people have been under I can see how someone would be less than thrilled to go spend another week away from their family. I'd rather have seen these kinds of details be volunteers than voluntold. Most of the people on these details are junior enlisted who don't have the frame of mind to grasp what they are doing. I know for me I wouldn't have.
Anyone not a vet has no business if even talking about it. Those that are, need to come down off their high horse. Either they are hypocrits or must have been shitty company to be around durring shit details and jobs.
I'm gonna disagree. That is like suggesting that anyone who has not been in public service doesn't have the right to criticize Congress or the President. Similarly we don't have to have been in law enforcement to have the right to criticize bad cops.
This isn't a forum of hippies calling veterans baby killers. It's a safe bet 95% support the military and always give the benefit of the doubt. But when people do ****ed up shit that reflects very badly on the military, it is our appreciation for the military that is the basis of our criticism.
You will find us very forgiving for the most part, especially when it comes to combat vets. But if somebody who wears BDUs for a living gets drunk and takes a piss at Arlington we are going to get very, very upset and we don't need to have served in the military ourselves to have the "right" to be upset by something like that.
Belmont31R
02-27-14, 23:05
I'm gonna disagree. That is like suggesting that anyone who has not been in public service doesn't have the right to criticize Congress or the President. Similarly we don't have to have been in law enforcement to have the right to criticize bad cops.
This isn't a forum of hippies calling veterans baby killers. It's a safe bet 95% support the military and always give the benefit of the doubt. But when people do ****ed up shit that reflects very badly on the military, it is our appreciation for the military that is the basis of our criticism.
You will find us very forgiving for the most part, especially when it comes to combat vets. But if somebody who wears BDUs for a living gets drunk and takes a piss at Arlington we are going to get very, very upset and we don't need to have served in the military ourselves to have the "right" to be upset by something like that.
The military is no different than society. There's a ton of junior enlisted and junior/senior NCO's and all manner of people doing great things everyday. There's people doing Spur Rides and marches and CQ and all manner of things all the time.
What?! You can't be serious. A good soldier recognizes when it's time to **** around and when it's time to maintain their military bearing. Those soldiers displayed a severe lack of character and judgement with their actions.
In addition, the leadership there needs some scrutinizing. The NCOs should have been doing a FAR better job of instilling a sense of solemn duty on that detail. Period.
There is a screenshot floating around FB of that female Soldier's team leader who tries to justify the actions of her Soldier. It's infuriating.
Effin THANK YOU. If ANYBODY should know better than this kind of shit, it should be members of the military.
Look, we've all done some crazy, stupid stuff, and said some downright offensive things in our lifetime. I sure as hell wouldn't be putting up any evidence of it on social media sites. To be in uniform, representing the armed forces of the USA and those veterans that came before them, and then have the serious lack of judgement in allowing it to be posted in the public domain, how could they not have expected the public's backlash. They put their superiors in a position to react overaggressively due to public pressure whether it's deserved or not.
3 AE is right, IMHO. Was it boneheaded? YES. Was it insensitive? YES Does there need to be some serious ass chewing, conseling statements, and maybe even a company grade Article 15 to make a point? ABSOLUTELY. But, unless this is a pattern, it does not deserve the level of Congressional investigation, or a GO inquiriy (which I guaranty is happening) and careers ruined? NO. Does the image and reputation of all NG or Army need to suffer for the dumbassery of a few? NO. Rule #1: DON'T BE AN IDIOT. Rule #2: If you are bound and determined to ignore Rule #2, NO PICS YOU IDIOTS.
For the most part, Soldiers can have a weird and morbid at times sense of humor. Looks to me like some are clearly uncomfortable. This stuff can escalate waaay out of control and garner more attention than necessary.
Case in point: MANY years ago, in the 90's, when I was a Company Commander, some of my Soldiers got into a little 'trouble' at the NCO club. They wern't bad Soldiers, they worked hard for me and they had been pulling some long hours. Anyway, that night was the 'hot legs' contest at the NCO club, and some of them, after a few, decided to get up on stage and dance to the 'funky cold medina' in their BVD's...
The crowd loved it; a CSM present at the club had a shit fit and wanted their asses, so badly that the club CSM (who had given them permission to do it), threw this other CSM out. I heard all about this the next morning.
Anyway, shortly thereafter I got a call to report to the Brigade Commander's office. Figured I was about to get relieved. Luckily I had a down-to-earth Bde Cdr who managed to get across that, while kinda funny, a repeat peformance would not be tolerated. I went back and had a conseling session with the new 'rock stars', and after a little knashing of teeth and a few choice words repeating the Bde Cdrs message, we actually had a huge ass laugh over it; I told them that as Tankers, I expected them to be BOLD, AUDACIOUS and DECISIVE, but not STUPID. THANK GOD THIS WASN'T 2014 with digital cameras and social networking; it would have forced the over-reaction and we'd all been done then. Some of those involved later when on to be CSM's; the Bde Cdr became a 2-star Division Commander, and I even dog-robbed for him for a few years...
P.S. If there had been an actual corpse in that casked rather than a training session, THAT would be the crossed line I wouldn't forgive...
Grand58742
02-28-14, 11:02
3 AE is right, IMHO. Was it boneheaded? YES. Was it insensitive? YES Does there need to be some serious ass chewing, conseling statements, and maybe even a company grade Article 15 to make a point? ABSOLUTELY. But, unless this is a pattern, it does not deserve the level of Congressional investigation, or a GO inquiriy (which I guaranty is happening) and careers ruined? NO. Does the image and reputation of all NG or Army need to suffer for the dumbassery of a few? NO. Rule #1: DON'T BE AN IDIOT. Rule #2: If you are bound and determined to ignore Rule #2, NO PICS YOU IDIOTS.
For the most part, Soldiers can have a weird and morbid at times sense of humor. Looks to me like some are clearly uncomfortable. This stuff can escalate waaay out of control and garner more attention than necessary.
Case in point: MANY years ago, in the 90's, when I was a Company Commander, some of my Soldiers got into a little 'trouble' at the NCO club. They wern't bad Soldiers, they worked hard for me and they had been pulling some long hours. Anyway, that night was the 'hot legs' contest at the NCO club, and some of them, after a few, decided to get up on stage and dance to the 'funky cold medina' in their BVD's...
The crowd loved it; a CSM present at the club had a shit fit and wanted their asses, so badly that the club CSM (who had given them permission to do it), threw this other CSM out. I heard all about this the next morning.
Anyway, shortly thereafter I got a call to report to the Brigade Commander's office. Figured I was about to get relieved. Luckily I had a down-to-earth Bde Cdr who managed to get across that, while kinda funny, a repeat peformance would not be tolerated. I went back and had a conseling session with the new 'rock stars', and after a little knashing of teeth and a few choice words repeating the Bde Cdrs message, we actually had a huge ass laugh over it; I told them that as Tankers, I expected them to be BOLD, AUDACIOUS and DECISIVE, but not STUPID. THANK GOD THIS WASN'T 2014 with digital cameras and social networking; it would have forced the over-reaction and we'd all been done then. Some of those involved later when on to be CSM's; the Bde Cdr became a 2-star Division Commander, and I even dog-robbed for him for a few years...
P.S. If there had been an actual corpse in that casked rather than a training session, THAT would be the crossed line I wouldn't forgive...
Biggest thing I see about your analogy here? Apples and oranges. It happened on a base where the exposure was and could be controlled. It's not like they were out at the local dive doing it in their Class A's.
But I certainly disagree with this portion of your post:
Does the image and reputation of all NG or Army need to suffer for the dumbassery of a few? NO.
I think in a perfect world the reputation and image of the Armed Forces as a whole wouldn't be degraded by the actions of the few as most people would recognize the basic fact of "few." But unfortunately, this isn't the case and we've seen time and time again where the entire service(s) are lumped into the same pot. It's been going on for years and will continue through this.
Problem is when the normally internal stuff taken for fun gets leaked into the "world" of social and multimedia. As the old saying goes, if you think it's stupid when you're doing it, it's probably going to be even more stupid later. And the chances of people taking anything one says or does out of context if it was to get out? Extremely high. So there is the thoughts of the good of the service that is necessary in these situations whether it be a group taking a picture in front of a flag draped empty casket or an idiot PFC who decides to post up a picture of hiding during retreat and bragging about it.
Perception is reality and even more so in the military that's generally held in a higher regard and to higher standards in the public. And it doesn't matter if the (juvenile) intentions were innocent, there is still that image that is broadcast onto the entire military in the eyes of the public as a result of the actions of the few.
The military is no different than society. There's a ton of junior enlisted and junior/senior NCO's and all manner of people doing great things everyday. There's people doing Spur Rides and marches and CQ and all manner of things all the time.
I think everyone knows that. I don't think these guys represent the majority of the military any more than Phelps represents most Christians. And that is why these people get criticized so harshly.
brushy bill
02-28-14, 19:07
Having been in a unit that did that detail the vast majority are retirees that haven't been in a uniform in decades. I'm not making excuses for this behavior but with the tempo people have been under I can see how someone would be less than thrilled to go spend another week away from their family. I'd rather have seen these kinds of details be volunteers than voluntold. Most of the people on these details are junior enlisted who don't have the frame of mind to grasp what they are doing. I know for me I wouldn't have.
We talk a lot about ops tempo because the generation after the Vietnam War but before 9-11 honestly didn't have to sacrifice as much. I know some very senior folks who never had a short tour. But remember that some of those retirees who haven't been in uniform in decades were away from their families for a lot longer than the typical tour of duty now. WWII, they might not have been home for years. If the junior enlisted don't have the frame of mind to grasp that, then their NCOs and officers are failing. Even that doesn't excuse the type of shenanigans we've been seeing in this case and with the AF at Dover. I personally won't trouble the military for anything when I pass, but I'd be honored even now to pay respects to a veteran who served in WWII, Korea, Vietnam, Iraq, or Afghanistan or wherever.
Related acts and didn't want to start a new thread:
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/stupid-selfie-soldier-posts-pic-avoiding-flag-salute-article-1.1702076
http://www.military.com/daily-news/2014/03/08/army-wont-disclose-punishment-of-soldier.html?comp=700001075741&rank=3
This sentence in the article, "Administrative punishment provides a range of options, including "verbal counseling." Does "verbal counseling" entail a A-1 Military Grade Ass Chewing from a superior, or is more like a "Let's sit down and discuss if you have some issues that made you feel that you needed to express yourself in a less than exemplary fashion."? I'm thinking the latter but can a commanding officer tear someone a new one as long as it doesn't refer to race, sex, color, blah, blah, blah, or is it considered verbal abuse?
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