View Full Version : Visual guide: How to fill out a Form 1 using EFORMS
Alternate Title: EFORMS for Dummies (as written by one)
REMINDER: EForms is only available for entities such as trusts/corps/LLCs to use. A person filing as an individual cannot file electronically at this time.
ETA 11/11/14: Silencer Shop has a created a YouTube video that walks you through the process. If you prefer to watch instead of read, here is a post (https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?147975-Visual-guide-How-to-fill-out-a-Form-1-using-EFORMS&p=2023841#post2023841) I made explaining some of the differences plus a link to the video.
ETA 2/8/16: Silencer Shop redid their video. You can watch the new one here (http://youtu.be/L0XajMZgsaE).
With all the discussion about the faster turnaround time (at least so far) of using the EFORMS system, there are more and more questions each day. I filled out a couple in December and the only real guide I found was the one on NFA Gun Trust Lawyer Blog by David M Goldman (http://www.guntrustlawyer.com/2013/08/gun-trust-and-submitting-atf-f.html). He’s done a great job explaining a lot of things about NFA, and has a couple screen shots included. However, there are still a lot of questions left to be answered. (He also says it's possible to file multiple items on one application, which is not true.) I filled out one more today and decided to take some more screen shots and add some verbiage to try and ease anybody’s nerves that hasn’t yet used EFORMS.
The ATF also released an EForms 101 document in December 2013...you're welcome to read through it as well. You can find it here, on Goldman's GunTrustLawyer site (http://www.guntrustlawyer.com/ATFeFormsNews12-18-13.pdf). There's also an EForms bulletin that I used a couple sections of in screen shots throughout this guide, and you can see it here, on John Pierce's website (http://johnpierceesq.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/eForms_Bulletin_9-17-13.pdf).
I will first say that I haven’t actually had the application done during the creation of this guide approved, so there’s no guarantee I’ve done it 100% correctly (update 4/26/14: paper Form 1 approved this using the same thought process I used during the EForms application; update 5/14/14: second paper F1 approved; update 5/19/14: my first two eForms approved using this guide). However, there have been a lot of topics here that involved single items on the Form. There are quite a few sources for figuring out how to fill out a paper Form 1, and if you do that first, it won’t be any issue transferring that information onto the electronic version. The following screen shots are how I filled out an eForm 1 for an SBR, along with a couple additional notes I added.
ETA: 6/4/14. The form filled out during the making of the Visual Guide has been approved. I'm now 4-for-4 getting forms approved following these steps. This is what the digital stamp looks like:
http://i751.photobucket.com/albums/xx151/thegreghorton/EFORMS/AEBA70D1-2A3E-435D-B999-02361C09DACB_zps0gsnxhlk.jpg
Please note: this is the only stamp you will receive. There is not a paper copy coming in the mail with a real adhesive stamp.
http://i751.photobucket.com/albums/xx151/thegreghorton/EFORMS/EForm1_zps99fe5d43.jpg
Note: I want to get this in before you register, and give you an alternative solution if you already registered. When you register, there is a Title field available. Notice it's after your name. This is not a title like Mr/Mrs/Dr, rather a title like Trustee. When you sign a paper form, you sign and print as Full Name as Trustee. In EForms, you sign electronically. Box 7 shows DIGITALLY SIGNED and Box 8 shows your name as registered. If you have Trustee in the Title field, your form will include that title after it prints your name. Here's an example of what one of mine looks like:
http://i751.photobucket.com/albums/xx151/thegreghorton/EFORMS/17E08954-75D5-4975-9CF1-A84A9BC93320_zpsigqizcuc.jpg
ETA 7/13/14: For clarification...you register as an individual that will represent the entity, using your name. You don't register as the entity itself. You will use the trust/corp name as the Licensee/Permitee (you'll see this in detail on a later screenshot).
If you have already registered, you can still add a title if you choose. Simply log into EFORMS and go to the My Profile tab at the top. Then look at User Information. The Title field is right below your name.
Notice that on both the Registration page and the User Information page there is not an asterisk next to the Title field. It is not required. Just like your middle initial isn't required. The trust you submit will have your name listed as Trustee. I've yet to see anybody post that they were denied because of Trustee not being present. Quite a few posted success with the Title field blank. I think it's a non-issue, but I wanted to point it out in case you wanted to use that field.
ETA: I registered with my "nickname" of Greg and my last name. After I submitted my first three forms, they each had Greg Lastname in Box 8. After the third form, and reading about somebody putting their title in their profile, I went back in and changed my first name to Gregory, added a middle initial and also added Trustee as a title. The fourth form showed Gregory S Lastname, Trustee when I previewed it. The more interesting fact is my first two forms actually have my full name and title on them in the Approved status. This may have happened because it updated when status went from Submitted to Approved. Or, it may have happened because the two forms had the DRAFT watermark, and the person I contacted said they'd have to reset the forms. The only way I'll really know is if the third form comes through cleanly without the DRAFT watermark so it doesn't have to be reset. I'll check to see how my name shows up in Box 8 and update this post. (Every one of my F1s, and my one F4, all had the DRAFT watermark and had to be reset. Didn't remember to look at the 3rd one to see how my name/title appeared.)
http://i751.photobucket.com/albums/xx151/thegreghorton/EFORMS/EForm2_zps72687ebf.jpg
NOTE from ATF EFORMS bulletin: An eForms industry member has brought to our attention that an important rule is missing from our password complexity rules, listed on the registration screen where you create your eForms password.
The requirements are currently displayed as follows:
Choose a password as per the following rules:
1. Must have at least twelve (12) characters in length.
2. Must contain at least one or more number(s) (0-9).
3. Must contain at least one or more special character(s) (!@#$%^&*(),).
4. Must contain at least one or more upper and lower case letter(s) (a-z, A-Z).
The rule that is missing is:
Must be no fewer than 5 alphabetic characters in your password.
Please adhere to this rule when you are creating or changing your eForms passwords.
Note: Thank you to the industry member who discovered and reported this problem.
(the “missing rule” has caused a lot of people problems)
http://i751.photobucket.com/albums/xx151/thegreghorton/EFORMS/EForm3_zpsf76988ce.jpg
http://i751.photobucket.com/albums/xx151/thegreghorton/EFORMS/EForm4_zps585df6e1.jpg
http://i751.photobucket.com/albums/xx151/thegreghorton/EFORMS/EForm5_zpsa296d521.jpg
http://i751.photobucket.com/albums/xx151/thegreghorton/EFORMS/EForm6_zpsaafc13a4.jpg
ETA 2/8/16: one item to mention...notice the bullet point on the slide above that says you cannot use eForms for reactivations. That's why you're not prompted to answer the Yes/No question you're used to on a paper form. The line item (4j) will still be on your form, but it will be blank.
ETA: uploaded a replacement slide below to add the note about the Internal Control Number
http://i751.photobucket.com/albums/xx151/thegreghorton/EFORMS/EForm7new_zpsad6e3c65.jpg
NOTE: The ICN will also show up in the emails you receive from EFORMS. It will be in the Reference No: field, and will also be part of the filename when you receive your Approved (or Disapproved) form
http://i751.photobucket.com/albums/xx151/thegreghorton/EFORMS/EForm8_zps4cf05276.jpg
http://i751.photobucket.com/albums/xx151/thegreghorton/EFORMS/EForm9_zps832016a4.jpg
From an EForms bulletin:
When an eForm 1 is submitted by a legal entity on an eForm 4 or 5, only the trust or LLC name should be entered as the applicant (Licensee/Permittee Name field on eForm 1) or as the transferee (Business Name field on eForms 4 or 5).
Do not list the identification of the trustee (for example, John Doe, trustee) as part of the applicant or transferee name. The identification of the entity members will be available in the information attached, to document the entity.
ETA 1/21/16: This is not new information, I've just never taken the time to add a note until now. There is a known defect in eForms that when you enter your ZIP, you sometimes cannot choose your correct county. This is mainly in situations where the ZIP spans multiple counties. It's a non-issue as far as approvals go. Simply enter your ZIP, select the City, then take whatever County it gives you. Many users have questioned the ATF on this issue, and here's one of the responses:
We are aware of the glitch regarding the county and do not have the funding to address at the present time. Submit with the incorrect county and this will not impact the processing of the application in this instance.
http://i751.photobucket.com/albums/xx151/thegreghorton/EFORMS/EForm10_zpse62c3622.jpg
http://i751.photobucket.com/albums/xx151/thegreghorton/EFORMS/EForm11_zps54eb635a.jpg
The wording from the EForms bulletin:
The proper way to identify the manufacturer of a firearm.
For those who will simply be modifying an existing weapon:
If you are modifying an existing firearm, typically a standard configuration rifle into a short barreled rifle, the form requires the name of the original manufacturer of the firearm. When submitting an eForm 1, on the line item screen, a window for the entry of manufacturer is opened after clicking the Add Firearm button. At this point, the applicant would enter a short version of the manufacturer’s name to bring up a list of names for selection of the manufacturer from the list. Select the correct manufacturer and proceed to the description screen. You may note that the manufacturer code field also populates. We issue a code to a manufacturer. While the original manufacturer information is captured, the applicant is the maker and registrant for purposes of the NFA and must mark the firearm.
For those who will be make their own item. (would include builds on 80% lowers)
If you are creating the firearm yourself, such as a silencer or a short barreled rifle (when finishing a receiver that is not yet a firearm), there is no original manufacturer. Because of the large number of makers (which includes filings by trusts), we do not issue a specific code to each maker. Instead, we use a generic code of FMI to denote a Form 1 registration. Thus, when submitting an eForm 1 where there is no original manufacturer, on the line item screen, a window for the entry of manufacturer is opened after clicking the Add Firearm button. At this point, the applicant should click the “By Manufacturer Code’ button and enter FMI as the manufacturer code and click Verify. The applicant will then select the United States as the country of manufacture and proceed to the description screen. Please note that ‘FORM 1 REGISTRATION’ will appear as the name of the maker on the PDF of the eForm 1. Again, the applicant is the maker and registrant for purposes of the NFA and must mark the firearm.
http://i751.photobucket.com/albums/xx151/thegreghorton/EFORMS/EForm12_zps91403385.jpg
http://i751.photobucket.com/albums/xx151/thegreghorton/EFORMS/EForm13_zps8f60ea40.jpg
ETA 2/16/15: For anybody submitting a Form 1 for a suppressor, here's some info before you get to the next screenshot. I submitted six recently...but no approval to guarantee this is right. But, based on my SBR forms and a lot of input from others, it should address the questions you may have:
The differences:
1. You'll use FMI as the manufacturer's code (that's listed on a slide somewhere, same thing as used with an 80% lower)
2. You'll choose Silencer from the dropdown, which will eliminate the barrel length block
3. Model is not required, but EForms forces you to choose. There's an N/A in the dropdown, which is what the dealers have put for barrel length on most of my paper F4s, so I chose that for my model. (If you want an actual model name, input whatever you want)
4. You do have to assign a serial number and choose a caliber (note: SN must have at least one numeral...it can be all numerals, or a combination of numbers/letters, but can't be all letters like a name)
5. I left the Additional Description box empty just like I did with an SBR.
Everything else seems to be the same.
ETA 4/17/15: all six of my stamps were approved on 4/12 using the "N/A" as model and leaving the Description box blank. I did upload a rough sketch, but many others have been approved without one.
http://i751.photobucket.com/albums/xx151/thegreghorton/EFORMS/EForm14_zps9d77dad2.jpg
ETA 7/4/14: the question gets asked quite often about which caliber to use, as far as format goes. Here's a snippet from an EForms bulletin that may help:
http://i751.photobucket.com/albums/xx151/thegreghorton/EFORMS/2E731681-2C6E-453B-B60C-0939959FA365_zpstqfbkgpk.jpg
In addition, I want to add another note/tip/suggestion here that is mentioned in a couple of the screenshots. If you put the checkmark and enter your own information, it is helpful to add an attachment at the end of the process (when you upload your trust/corp) to explain why. Removing any confusion for the examiners will do nothing but help to speed up the process. So, if you choose a manufacturer, but then your model number isn't in the dropdown, attach a pic showing the SN and Model. If you choose a manufacturer and then a model, but your caliber doesn't show up, attach a .doc explaining that you're building the firearm with an upper chambered in ### (whatever caliber you input).
NOTES:
1. barrel length includes any permanently attached muzzle device; can be found by inserting wooden dowel down barrel until it contacts closed bolt face
2. OAL is measured with collapsible stock in fully extended position
3. There have been multiple reports of all applications that used "multi" for caliber being rejected. It may have been ok years ago, but save yourself the hassle and pick a single caliber. Do not use "multi" or try and list multiple calibers.
LET ME REPEAT THIS...DO NOT SELECT MULTI AS THE CALIBER.
The drop down menus are populated based on what prior users have input...and not provided by the ATF. That's why an option that is available can still be incorrect. There are many users here that learned the hard way...it will get disapproved. ETA 5/30/14: I called and spoke with Gary to inquire about multi being in the dropdown. He said it was actually removed at one point but had to be put back. While it's not a valid selection on a Form 1, it is used on some other forms in certain situations (a sear on a Form 2 was one example) so it needs to be in the system.
http://i751.photobucket.com/albums/xx151/thegreghorton/EFORMS/EForm15_zps9efd5383.jpg
From EForms bulletin:
Attachment Limitations
The maximum size of a single upload for an attachment is 3 MB and the total size of the attachments cannot exceed 30 MB (with a maximum number of attachments of 10 at- tachment for the Forms 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 9, and 10). Forms 6 and 6A may contain a maximum of 10 line attachments per line item (the total submission cannot exceed 30 MB per submission).
Instructions NFA Trust Documents:
We have been advised that, for NFA forms, the size of the trust or corporate documents may exceed the 3 MB limit. If you encounter this situation, we suggest that you split the document into 2 or more ‘packages’ (as needed). When the attachments are added, identify the packages as, for example, ‘XXX Trust 1 of 3,’ ‘XXX Trust 2 of 3,’ etc.*
Note: After you submit the application attachments cannot be added. ETA 8/28/14: I have found this statement to not be true. You can add documents after the form is submitted but before it's approved. However, it's a little confusing. It will create a duplicate copy of the form in DRAFT status. At first, my Draft copy had the new attachment and the Submitted copy had the old attachments. When I checked the next day, all attachments were on both copies. I had the NFA branch confirm they saw the new attachment, and was told not to delete the Draft copy, as it would delete both. Several months later, I still have Draft copies of all my Approved forms just sitting there. (if you have any questions about this process, feel free to post them or send me an IM).
**also see the screen shot at the bottom of this guide to clarify when to add attachments**
http://i751.photobucket.com/albums/xx151/thegreghorton/EFORMS/EForm16_zps5a1019d4.jpg
http://i751.photobucket.com/albums/xx151/thegreghorton/EFORMS/EForm16a_zps22b14e3b.jpg
http://i751.photobucket.com/albums/xx151/thegreghorton/EFORMS/EForm17_zps339dbc23.jpg
ETA 9/18/14: The question of what to upload comes up fairly often in regards to a trust. It is not sufficient to simply upload the Certificate of Trust. You must include the entire body of the trust, with all signature and notary stamps, as well as any Schedule A/B/C or Assignment of Property sheets required, depending on how your trust is written. I also included the signed and notarized Acceptance of Trusteeship & Affidavit of Eligibility to Serve as Trustee sheet I have for each trustee. It's better to be safe than sorry, so I'd definitely opt to send more than less. I have sent the same Schedule A for all of mine, showing just the initial $200 I used to find the trust, and just keep an updated copy at home. Everything (both paper and EForms) I've sent in so far that way has been approved. I did remove any blank/extra pages, and also skipped the "Information about your NFA gun trust" and "Delivery Verification Acknowledgement" sections, which were just information for me and a confirmation for my lawyer. Because of the wide variety in how trusts are written, there's unfortunately not a simple "include pages 2-6, plus the Schedule A" answer here.
ETA 5/12/14: There's often a discussion about file size for attachments, and people having trouble getting their document scanned into a single file 3MB or less. I've always tried to point out that checking the settings is the key. B&W scans are significantly smaller than color, even if the document is nothing by black text. You also don't need extremely high dpi to make it readable.*
I took a single paper Form 1 I had (so there is one small color section, the stamp itself) and scanned it on my Brother multi-function printer multiple times using every quality option I had available. Here are the results:*
B&W 100dpi = 36KB
B&W 200dpi = 77KB
B&W 300dpi = 133KB
Color 100dpi = 113KB
Color 200dpi = 313KB
Color 300dpi = 573KB
Color 600dpi = 1,228KB
So, based on that sample, a color scan is 3-4.5 times the size of a B&W scan. My trust scanned in at ~7MB at the default setting of 200dpi color. I submitted a 200dpi B&W copy which was only 1.7MB.
http://i751.photobucket.com/albums/xx151/thegreghorton/EFORMS/EForm18_zps77050244.jpg
http://i751.photobucket.com/albums/xx151/thegreghorton/EFORMS/EForm19_zpse2c94b2a.jpg
http://i751.photobucket.com/albums/xx151/thegreghorton/EFORMS/EForm19a_zps37dd4077.jpg
http://i751.photobucket.com/albums/xx151/thegreghorton/EFORMS/EForm20_zps5a54257b.jpg
http://i751.photobucket.com/albums/xx151/thegreghorton/EFORMS/EForm21_zps0b80bdf8.jpg
http://i751.photobucket.com/albums/xx151/thegreghorton/EFORMS/EForm22_zps67c0f808.jpg
http://i751.photobucket.com/albums/xx151/thegreghorton/EFORMS/EForm23_zps6d14964d.jpg
http://i751.photobucket.com/albums/xx151/thegreghorton/EFORMS/EForm24_zps99a7eb4f.jpg
http://i751.photobucket.com/albums/xx151/thegreghorton/EFORMS/EForm25_zpscd1f6709.jpg
http://i751.photobucket.com/albums/xx151/thegreghorton/EFORMS/EForm26_zps4d5f2837.jpg
http://i751.photobucket.com/albums/xx151/thegreghorton/EFORMS/EForm26a_zpsdc0809eb.jpg
http://i751.photobucket.com/albums/xx151/thegreghorton/EFORMS/EForm27_zpsa5d4f048.jpg
One thing to point out here...the Permit/Control No is the Control Number you'll see at the top of your EForm 1 once it's submitted, and will match the Permit Number you'll see on the Home Screen. That's not to be confufsed with the Internal Control Number you may have used to help identify your submissions. The ICN will show up in the Reference No: field you see in these examples.
http://i751.photobucket.com/albums/xx151/thegreghorton/EFORMS/EForm28_zpsca1484f1.jpg
To close the loop on my actual application (the one with the yellow warning for unknown model)...I got the email at 6:15p tonight indicating my submission changed to SUBMITTED/IN PROCESS. Subtracting the 48 hours for the weekend, that's just under 24 hours. The screen shown above the two emails now indicates a Permit Number for all three, with a Submitted Date of 1/13/2014 for the top line.
If you have the yellow warning, your form will have a DRAFT watermark across it when you view/print it. When you get the email notifying you it's now SUBMITTED/IN PROCESS (same as Pending), you can view/print your form and see it now has a SUBMITTED watermark.
If anybody knows for certain that something in the above is incorrect, let me know and I’ll fix it. Hopefully this gives you an idea of what’s involved in filing online. As a reminder, this is available for entities only (trust/LLC/corps) and not individuals. Your first one may take a little longer, but I know I can fill one out faster than I could actually read all of the information on my screen shots (assuming the system is running OK…as attaching the files and using pay.gov sometimes goes really slow). I went overboard in trying to make sure everything possible was covered.
-Greg
ETA 9/19/14: I mentioned earlier how you could get a duplicate form in the DRAFT folder when uploading attachments after they're in the SUBMITTED status. There are other things that cause this as well, not all of which are known. This has happened as recent as the day I'm adding it with somebody simply logging in to look at their form and hitting Save. It created a Draft copy, which the user deleted after verifying the Submitted copy was there...and they both disappeared. All is not lost, as the ATF still has the Submitted form, but they'll have to email it to you since it's not in the system any longer. Here's a snippet from an EForms bulletin that addresses it:
http://i751.photobucket.com/albums/xx151/thegreghorton/Mobile%20Uploads/6F434D76-9AF6-4CAD-B88E-2157DDE230CB_zpslrjfg31b.png
ETA 2/12/14: there have been several questions asked in various threads that I'd like to address. The first pertains to answering all the questions on the back of the Form 1, specifically sections 10 & 11 (the Yes/No questions about age, being a fugitive or illegal alien, having been found mentally defective or being dishonorably discharged). These questions are not asked in EFORMS, because the entity filing cannot answer those questions. A trust cannot be addicted to drugs, and an LLC can't be convicted for domestic violence. There is no need to print out a copy, answer the questions, and then upload it as an attachment.
The other commonly asked question focuses on the need for a Certification of Compliance, the form known as the 5330.20. It is not required for an entity. A lot of people fill it out anyway when they mailed in their paper forms, just in case. I did that on my first two. However, the ATF addressed this in one of their earlier EFORMS bulletins. The screen shot below has some good info, and the top-right section answers the 5330.20 question:
http://i751.photobucket.com/albums/xx151/thegreghorton/EFORMS/124885D3-76B3-43B4-A2BD-E73EE5E6120E_zps5vprlnc9.jpg
ETA 5/8/14: for those of you that printed a copy of your form, I want to clarify a couple things that have been discussed several times:
1. You should've put your entity (trust/corp) in the Licensee/Permitee field and left the Trade Name field blank. The Licensee/Permittee name (and address) will show up in section 3b. However, you'll also notice that the entity name is duplicated in field 3a, the Trade Name. This is not a problem, it's the way EForms works.
2. Section 4j ("Is this firearm being reactivated?") will not have a mark in either "Yes" or "No". You were never asked this question when filling out the form. Multiple users with approved forms have confirmed this section is blank on their forms, and I've yet to see anybody say they were disapproved for this reason.
3. The entire back (page 2) of the Form 1 will be blank. This is the benefit of filing as an entity. You didn't have to provide photos (section 12) or CLEO sig and info (section 13). You also don't have to provide fingerprints. In addition to that, sections 10 & 11 will be blank, as you were never asked those questions. You weren't asked those questions because the entity is the applicant, and not you as an individual. Your entity can't be an illegal alien, can't be addicted to a controlled substance, can't be a fugitive, can't have been dishonorably discharged, can't have renounced its US Citizenship, etc. Same rules would apply to a paper F1, although a lot of people seem to check the boxes anyway. It is not required to answer these questions when filing as an entity, therefore you haven't done anything wrong resulting in unanswered questions.
For now, although not specific to EForms, I'm going to post something that gets discussed often. The question is what needs to be engraved.
The answer most of the time is:
Name of applicant (either individual or entity)
City, state of where maker made the firearm (not necessarily home address, or even same city)
Remember, when it comes to looking at the statutes as a Form 1 applicant, you are a maker, not a manufacturer. A Form 1 is an Application to Make and Register a Firearm. There are a whole different set of forms/regulations/taxes to be a manufacturer.
Here are the statutes behind those requirements:
§ 479.102 How must firearms be identified?
(a) You, as a manufacturer, importer, or maker of a firearm, must legibly identify the firearm as follows:
(1) By engraving, casting, stamping (impressing), or otherwise conspicuously placing or causing to be engraved, cast, stamped (impressed) or placed on the frame or receiver thereof an individual serial number. The serial number must be placed in a manner not susceptible of being readily obliterated, altered, or removed, and must not duplicate any serial number placed by you on any other firearm. For firearms manufactured, imported, or made on and after January 30, 2002, the engraving, casting, or stamping (impressing) of the serial number must be to a minimum depth of .003 inch and in a print size no smaller than 1/16 inch; and
(2) By engraving, casting, stamping (impressing), or otherwise conspicuously placing or causing to be engraved, cast, stamped (impressed), or placed on the frame, receiver, or barrel thereof certain additional information. This information must be placed in a manner not susceptible of being readily obliterated, altered or removed. For firearms manufactured, imported, or made on and after January 30, 2002, the engraving, casting, or stamping (impressing) of this information must be to a minimum depth of .003 inch. The additional information includes:
(i) The model, if such designation has been made;
(ii) The caliber or gauge;
(iii) Your name (or recognized abbreviation) and also, when applicable, the name of the foreign manufacturer or maker;
(iv) In the case of a domestically made firearm, the city and State (or recognized abbreviation thereof) where you as the manufacturer maintain your place of business, or where you, as the maker, made the firearm; and
(v) In the case of an imported firearm, the name of the country in which it was manufactured and the city and State (or recognized abbreviation thereof) where you as the importer maintain your place of business. For additional requirements relating to imported firearms, see Customs regulations at 19 CFR part 134.
Those are the general guidelines...then the ATF clarified for NFA items:
The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) authorizes licensed manufacturers and licensed importers of firearms, and makers of National Firearms Act (NFA) firearms, to adopt the serial number, caliber/gauge, and/or model already identified on a firearm without seeking a marking variance, provided all of the conditions in this ruling are met. Licensed manufacturers seeking to adopt all of the required markings, including the original manufacturer’s name and place of origin, must receive an approved variance from ATF. ATF Ruling 75-28 is superseded, and ATF Industry Circular 77-20 is clarified.
Held, pursuant to 27 CFR 478.92(a)(4)(i) and 479.102(c), ATF authorizes licensed manufacturers and licensed importers of firearms, and makers, to adopt the serial number, caliber/gauge, and/or model already identified on a firearm without seeking a marking variance, provided all of the following conditions are met:
1. The manufacturer, importer, or maker must legibly and conspicuously place on the frame, receiver, barrel, or pistol slide (if applicable) his/her own name (or recognized abbreviation) and location (city and State, or recognized abbreviation of the State) as specified under his/her Federal firearms license (if a licensee);
2. The serial number adopted must have been marked in accordance with 27 CFR 478.92 and 479.102, including that it must not duplicate any serial number adopted or placed by the manufacturer, importer, or maker on any other firearm;
3. The manufacturer, importer, or maker must not remove, obliterate, or alter the importer’s or manufacturer’s serial number to be adopted, except that, within 15 days of the date of release from Customs custody, a licensed importer must add letters, numbers, or a hyphen (as described in paragraph 4) to a foreign manufacturer’s serial number if the importer receives two or more firearms with the same serial number;
4. The serial number adopted must be comprised of only a combination of Roman letters and Arabic numerals, or solely Arabic numerals, and can include a hyphen, that were conspicuously placed on the firearm; and
5. If the caliber or gauge was not identified or designated (e.g., marked “multi”) on the firearm, the manufacturer, importer, or maker must legibly and conspicuously mark the frame, receiver, barrel, or pistol slide (if applicable) with the actual caliber/gauge once the caliber or gauge is known.
Held further, licensed manufacturers seeking to adopt all of the required markings, including the original manufacturer’s name and place of origin, must receive an approved variance from ATF.
So...the quick list of required engravings:
1. Serial Number
2. Model (if designated)
3. Caliber
4. Name
5. Location
A maker on an F1 can reuse the SN and model. They must engrave caliber if it's not present anywhere else, (i.e. if lower is marked "multi" and barrel isn't marked). You add your name, or name of entity that is the registered owner. Then, as maker, the city, state of where it was actually made. For a build from scratch, like an SBR using an 80% lower, or a Form 1 suppressor...you'd need to engrave everything on the list.
That information can be on the frame, receiver, barrel, or pistol slide. But, it must always be on the firearm. That simply means if you choose to engrave on an AR upper or barrel, you'd have to engrave every upper/barrel you plan to use. That's why most will engrave the lower receiver. The serial number, however, must be on the frame or receiver (could be upper or lower depending on which part the ATF has defined as the "firearm").
Notice only the SN has the 1/16" minimum size. Everything else is only held to the .003" minimum depth.
If you want to read the documents yourself, you can find 27 CFR 479.102 here (http://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/27/479.102) and ATF ruling 2013-3 here (https://www.atf.gov/sites/default/files/assets/pdf-files/atf-ruling-2013-3-adopting-identification-on-firearms.pdf).
ETA 1/22/16: Inevitably, at some point in the engraving discussion, somebody will ask this question: "What if I don't engrave...what's the penalty?" Well, the NFA rules/penatlies are in CFR › Title 27 › Chapter II › Subchapter B › Part 479
27 CFR 479.181 - Penalties.
Any person who violates or fails to comply with the requirements of 26 U.S.C. Chapter 53 shall, upon conviction, be subject to the penalties imposed under 26 U.S.C. 5871.
26 U.S. Code § 5871 - Penalties
Any person who violates or fails to comply with any provisions of this chapter shall, upon conviction, be fined not more than $10,000, or be imprisoned not more than ten years, or both.
For anybody that wants an easy way to remember this...follow the advice I often give but failed to follow myself: read the dang form!
Directly from the instructions on the Form 1:
9. Penalties. Any person who violates or fails to comply with any of the requirements of the NFA shall, upon conviction, be fined not more than $10,000 or be imprisoned for not more than 10 years, or both. Any firearm involved in a violation of the NFA shall be subject to seizure and forfeiture. It is unlawful for any person to make or cause the making of a false entry on any application or record required by the NFA knowing such entry to be false.
It's also in Chapter 15 of the NFA Handbook...which also references the $250K penalty that's often mentioned, and quotes the Statutes listed above:
15.1.1 Criminal. The acts prohibited by the NFA and prosecutable as Federal offenses are listed in 26 U.S.C. 5861(a) through (l). As provided by 26 U.S.C. 5871, any person who commits an offense shall, upon conviction, be sentenced to imprisonment for not more than 10 years or fined. Although the fine specified in the statute is an amount not exceeding $10,000, an amendment to Federal law provides for a fine of not more than $250,000 in the case of an individual or $500,000 in the case of an organization.[224]
[224] 18 U.S.C. 3571(b) and (c)
Thanks for going to the trouble to put this all together.
Thanks! I used your guide this morning for a form 1.
Very helpful.
Your effort is very much appreciated.
Sincere thanks,
Harold
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
ramairthree
02-20-14, 07:50
Thank you for taking the time to do this.
I did one in November, and one in December.
Today and a handful of other days since January I have tried to do another but form 1 does not open when clicked. Just a circle for a while and then nothing. I have even gotten an email from ATF saying they are working on the sight.
EDIT:
So, the point is, even if you do everything right, just wait.
I have never gotten Internet Explorer to work right with it.
I have submitted using Google Chrome.
I have never logged into with Firefox because it has been down when I tried.
Many times you will go to sign in and get:
eForms Outage
Due to daily maintenance, the e-Forms system is temporarily unavailable.
We apologize for any inconvenience and thank you in advance for your cooperation and patience.
ASSISTANCE:
Please direct questions to the OST Customer Support Help Desk at 1-877-875-3723 or Helpdesk-OSTCS@atf.gov.
Some times that comes up after you have been unable to get in.
In addition to doing the forms as posted above,
the browser you use,
timing to log in when it is not down for maintenance,
or luck of not trying to do it when system is not acting up
are also all factors.
Absolutely true. I've found my iPhone to be the easiest, except I have to log on from my laptop to add attachments. Lucky for me, my company issued laptop uses IE8, the recommended browser. My December applications went MUCH smoother than the times I've logged in recently to get a screenshot for somebody.
ramairthree
02-21-14, 10:40
Absolutely true. I've found my iPhone to be the easiest, except I have to log on from my laptop to add attachments. Lucky for me, my company issued laptop uses IE8, the recommended browser. My December applications went MUCH smoother than the times I've logged in recently to get a screenshot for somebody.
I am actually starting to get kind of POd about it.
In over a month I have usually not been able to log on.
I have gotten as far as not able to open a form 1,
and as far as filling it out to step 4.i,
but not able to save or continue before freezing up. And this is during the whopping few one hour periods a day between shut downs to reboot it they say is fixing it.
And the pay system will be shut down this weekend for changes, and who knows how long that will end up being down.
Edit: Nevermind. I found my answer.
Sparky5019
02-26-14, 18:51
Tag for dummy.
Continuing to add clarifying information as needed. Added snippets from EForms bulletins to address:
1. What name to use as applicant
2. How to choose manufacturer
3. Details about attachments
JR TACTICAL
02-26-14, 20:01
Great post BigWaylon, and I thank you for helping me out even prior to this post. This will really help people through the process, it answered all the questions I had when I was going through the process.
Well I just submitted my first ever NFA application in the form of an efile Form 1 for an SBR. I hope the turnaround time on eforms is as quick as they say it is. If so then I should be in business around early July.
Wanted to say thanks, just got a pair of Form 1s entered.
Wanted to say thanks, just got a pair of Form 1s entered.
Glad it could help. I made several updates to the original one I posted on ARFCOM. I'll see if I can update the OP with them. Too bad I can't just copy/paste it over here due to some formatting that doesn't work the same.
ETA: as of Sat 6/28, I think I've added all the other stuff I added to the other site. There was one picture and a couple extra bits of info I learned.
Does anyone know how to actually make the PDF smaller? Mine is at 3.6MB...
Does anyone know how to actually make the PDF smaller? Mine is at 3.6MB...
How many pages? Do you have a scanner?
If you have a scanner, did you see the info at the bottom of the first half of the guide? Scanning at 200dpi in B&W is plenty clear enough to read. B&W creates a much smaller file than color.
As close as you are to 3MB, you could also just split it into two files and be done with it.
There's software out there (I think the full version of Adobe will do it) that allows you to shrink the file, but mine was ok after the first scan using proper settings.
How many pages? Do you have a scanner?
If you have a scanner, did you see the info at the bottom of the first half of the guide? Scanning at 200dpi in B&W is plenty clear enough to read. B&W creates a much smaller file than color.
Just figured it out.
Selected the pages under "Print" and then re-saved.
Thanks.
Can someone make this a Sticky???
I second the motion. This is one of the best and most informative, if not THE best and most informative, posts I've ever seen in this forum.
I found this post to be invaluable when filling out my eForms. Definitely sticky worthy.
Just filed my first form 1.
First time even though I have been in the NFA game since 1994.
Thanks for the guide it did help.
Now the wait begins.
FWIW - some of the screens have changed from those shown in this guide but they are not too radically changed.
FWIW - some of the screens have changed from those shown in this guide but they are not too radically changed.
You remember what was different? Nobody else has ever mentioned it, and I haven't filled a new one out. As far as I knew, they just turned the F1 back on.
I can fill one out just to get some updated screen shots if needed.
ETA: I just stepped through one all the way to the pay screen and didn't notice anything different...I'll gladly take the input if you remember what changed. (I do think I'll update an early slide to mention the Internal Control Number field)
You remember what was different? Nobody else has ever mentioned it, and I haven't filled a new one out. As far as I knew, they just turned the F1 back on.
I can fill one out just to get some updated screen shots if needed.
Just minor crap with added column for more info usually.
i didnt put my trust name at all, i didnt know thats where it goes. i also didnt put anything for unit of measurement. will it get rejected, or will they let me correct it?
The guide is crystal clear... Did you read it? It's not like the form is even that complicated. Forgetting to put the name of the registering entity on the form is a pretty big screw up. They're going pretty fast right now, so you shouldn't have to wait too long to get rejected, at least.
Unfortunately I found this thread about 3 hours after I submitted it :(
The guide is crystal clear... Did you read it? It's not like the form is even that complicated. Forgetting to put the name of the registering entity on the form is a pretty big screw up. They're going pretty fast right now, so you shouldn't have to wait too long to get rejected, at least.
The guide is crystal clear... Did you read it? It's not like the form is even that complicated. Forgetting to put the name of the registering entity on the form is a pretty big screw up. They're going pretty fast right now, so you shouldn't have to wait too long to get rejected, at least.
They are going fast, received my stamp in 19 days.
i didnt put my trust name at all, i didnt know thats where it goes. i also didnt put anything for unit of measurement. will it get rejected, or will they let me correct it?
You're probably going to need to ask to have that one cancelled and resubmit. Refund will be automatic in a couple weeks, so just go ahead and refile as soon as it's cancelled.
If you want to try one thing, you can email ted (dot) clutter (at) atf (dot) gov and see if he can correct it. I've seen at least one person get theirs corrected after it was submitted.
Resubmitting will be about as fast as waiting for a reply.
Just wondering i submitted my form 1 and are the Additional Requirements boxes all supposed to be blank?(when i vewed print version) i followed the write up to the T
**** NVM I somehow missed that lil bit of info you posted about that at the end, my apologies******
It was mentioned on the busiest slide in the guide when you got to that point. You didn't do anything wrong. Not sure if the examiner actually sees what you out there or not, but it doesn't show up on the Draft version or the Approved version.
http://i751.photobucket.com/albums/xx151/thegreghorton/EFORMS/EForm14_zps9d77dad2.jpg
Well...we tried.
So......does this mean the site won't make this thread a sticky? If ever a thread should be a sticky it's this one.
So......does this mean the site won't make this thread a sticky? If ever a thread should be a sticky it's this one.
Dunno. I haven't been around here real long, and the NFA forum is the only one I actually check. Maybe one of you whose word carries a little more weight could ask. I'm not even sure who handles that stuff.
SeriousStudent
08-31-14, 20:00
In the words of Pharaoh: "So let it be written, so let it be done."
ETA: The thread is now stickied. BigWaylon, thank you for the time and effort you put into this, it is much appreciated.
In the words of Pharaoh: "So let it be written, so let it be done."
ETA: The thread is now stickied. BigWaylon, thank you for the time and effort you put into this, it is much appreciated.
Sounds good. Hope it continues to help people. I'll make sure to update it when I update the original.
SeriousStudent
08-31-14, 21:15
It's been a help to me. I'm going to e-file a pair of Form 1's in a couple of weeks.
Thanks again.
Just got a email from Ted, mine was denied. I'm actually, now I know how to fill this out.
Just got a email from Ted, mine was denied. I'm actually, now I know how to fill this out.
After you get it resubmitted, follow these instructions (http://www.guntrustlawyer.com/2014/07/what-to-do-if-your-atf-eform-i.html).
Just got done re submitting, can't believe I messed that up the first time.
When using my Trust, which has been created, notarized, witnessed, I see there is a sheet at the end where I can add things to the trust, assignment sheet it is called. It appears it too requires witnesses signatures and notarization.
Do I have to use it? I'm getting mixed messages.
When using my Trust, which has been created, notarized, witnessed, I see there is a sheet at the end where I can add things to the trust, assignment sheet it is called. It appears it too requires witnesses signatures and notarization.
Do I have to use it? I'm getting mixed messages.
Do you have to use it? Or do you have to include it with the copy of the trust you send to the ATF?
I'd say the answer is "yes" to both. Whether yours uses a Schedule A/B/C or Assignment of Property pages, or whatever...they want to see it all.
However, I will say that I've never sent an updated copy of my Schedule A. The thirteen submissions I've done in the last year or so simply show $200 cash as the only property. 9 have been approved, and 4 still pending. However, there is an current updated copy with my trust at home.
Waylan....thank you for your excellent work here.
I had my trust notarized and witnessed, dated, all kosher.
Then I got home and saw the assignment page, requiring witnesses and dates and so forth, so I'm wondering if I've already blown the trust paperwork.
Should I have had the Assignment Page dated, signed and witness together with the rest of the Trust, the main body of the Trust.
Do I put my lower I'm submitting to the ATF on it? Or just show I put some money into the trust?
I'm picking up my lower this afternoon and would love to get the Form 1 eFile process rolling with your excellent instructions, but ... got caught up short by this "Assignment" page.
Then I got home and saw the assignment page, requiring witnesses and dates and so forth, so I'm wondering if I've already blown the trust paperwork.
Should I have had the Assignment Page dated, signed and witness together with the rest of the Trust, the main body of the Trust.
Do I put my lower I'm submitting to the ATF on it? Or just show I put some money into the trust?
IANAL, and all the other disclaimers pertinent to this discussion.
In almost all cases (as I have to assume there's an exception somewhere), a trust is not valid unless it's funded. Meaning it can't be empty. Most people initially fund theirs with something simple like a $1 bill. That's because it's inexpensive and has a serial number.
I've never dealt with one that has Assignment pages, so I'm not able to answer some of those questions. My Schedule A simply says "$200 cash". No serial number, no date, no signature, no witnesses, no notary stamp...but that's how my trust is written.
You can fund the trust with the lower if you want. I've just never added one until after it was approved, since I had the cash initially in there. Some people do that with a note of "pending approval", but there's nothing wrong with putting a non-NFA item in the trust (unless there's verbiage in your trust prohibiting it).
The remainder of the questions are things I would've cleared up with my lawyer...but I'm not sure if you used one or did it online.
OK, thanks, I understand the situation better now.
SeriousStudent
09-05-14, 22:15
This is a stickied thread. I have just removed unneeded posts from it. We hold threads like this to a higher standard, and there needs to be a lot less bickering and eye-rolling. You know who you are, so stop doing it.
Let's keep this resource on track.
Just submitted my Form 1 and the forms were all approved/accepted by ATF for processing. Wish me luck!
Hope it goes through quickly, and hope I didn't screw something up on it. :)
This guide was tremendously helpful.
IANAL, and all the other disclaimers pertinent to this discussion.
In almost all cases (as I have to assume there's an exception somewhere), a trust is not valid unless it's funded. Meaning it can't be empty. Most people initially fund theirs with something simple like a $1 bill. That's because it's inexpensive and has a serial number.
I've never dealt with one that has Assignment pages, so I'm not able to answer some of those questions. My Schedule A simply says "$200 cash". No serial number, no date, no signature, no witnesses, no notary stamp...but that's how my trust is written.
You can fund the trust with the lower if you want. I've just never added one until after it was approved, since I had the cash initially in there. Some people do that with a note of "pending approval", but there's nothing wrong with putting a non-NFA item in the trust (unless there's verbiage in your trust prohibiting it).
The remainder of the questions are things I would've cleared up with my lawyer...but I'm not sure if you used one or did it online.
First, thanks for the info. I had questions similar to ptmccain's. I see your trust is set up different so if anyone has dealt with this please chime in.
I have a trust with assignment pages as well. So the way I understand it, I can submit the trust without those pages. If/when it comes back approved I would simply go and addthe lower to the trust assignment page? Or would I somehow be in possession of an illegal NFA item seeing as the now SBR lower isnt actually part of the trust for a day or so?
Im sure there is an obvious answer but its late and I'm new to the NFA haha. Also my trust does show funding of $10.
ETA: I just read through the posts again. I think im in the same boat as ptmccain. Mine is funded as well so I should be ok to submit the Eform and add the lower after approval
Question: The only way I'll know if my Form was approved is when I get an email from the ATF with the tax stamp, correct?
Or does something change/happen with the info on my "submitted" form on the ATF eForm site?
12 business days and counting here since eForm 1 submission earlier this month.
You should get an email. However, some report they don't...or maybe a spam filter gets it.
I believe this is your first one, right? So you have a SUBMITTED branch in the tree on the Home Page. You may also have a DRAFT branch. When your form is processed, you'll either notice an APPROVED (hopefully) or DISAPPROVED branch has been added.
At that point you can view the form and either print it or save it.
There's a chance that when it's approved, it'll have the DRAFT watermark across it, along with the stamp and signature. It happened to all five of my EForms. Nobody knows why. You just have to email them (or use Ask The Experts) and they'll correct it.
Just a note...there are several actions you can take that will create a duplicate copy of your form again in the DRAFT folder. DO NOT delete those if it happens. Just leave them me. I have Draft copies of four Approved forms that will just sit there forever.
The current ones I've seen are running 25-35 days, so you still have a couple weeks.
Thanks for the quick response, yes, at this point I have both the "draft" branch and the "submitted" branch on the "tree" on the Home Page.
Although I know that sometimes the discussions turn into arguments, I added a section at the bottom of the Visual Guide to address engraving requirements. :D
worked like a charm, i got approved today.
8.5 300 blk
noveske uppr lowr
hiperfire trigg
optic (undecided)
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a357/skt4271/Mobile%20Uploads/20140912_213345_zpshnmtbjdv.jpg (http://s15.photobucket.com/user/skt4271/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20140912_213345_zpshnmtbjdv.jpg.html)
thanks for the guide. I used it to fill out a form 1 this afternoon.
cagekicker
10-28-14, 15:18
Thank you for this guide I used it and received my approved form 1 today. I have been putting off building an sbr for awhile but you explained everything in detail and I did it. I am glad I did, thank you very much.
Glad it's still working for y'all. I actually looked back through it when I filed one back on 10/10...first one since Jan.
heartbreakridge01
10-30-14, 09:02
Well I submitted my eform1 today and after I submitted it I realized I fat fingerd the serial number.... In the process of trying to get it canx now so I can resubmit it! argh.
Well I submitted my eform1 today and after I submitted it I realized I fat fingerd the serial number.... In the process of trying to get it canx now so I can resubmit it! argh.
No reason to wait. Resubmit it now, and ask for the other to be cancelled. Serial number isn't going to match the wrong one, so no conflict. Last reports I saw was it was taking 60+ days for the refund, so if you were hoping for it to be immediate you're probably out of luck.
One option to try before that is email Ted Clutter and see if there's any chance he can change it. I know I've seen a report or two of people having luck with that, but who knows?
heartbreakridge01
10-30-14, 12:04
No reason to wait. Resubmit it now, and ask for the other to be cancelled. Serial number isn't going to match the wrong one, so no conflict. Last reports I saw was it was taking 60+ days for the refund, so if you were hoping for it to be immediate you're probably out of luck.
One option to try before that is email Ted Clutter and see if there's any chance he can change it. I know I've seen a report or two of people having luck with that, but who knows?
Can you PM me his email address?
I submitted an email to the "Ask the Experts" with my permit number on it just waiting to see what they say. It would be alot eaiser if they could kick it back and let me change the serial number, but I am sure that is not the case and it will have to get cancelled and resubmitted.
I think they can alter it on their end, but can't kick it back for you to alter. Whether they will or not is a different issue.
PM inbound.
Uniform Tango 74
10-30-14, 16:41
Thanks for posting. I used your post recently as a guide for my AR SBR application. November 2nd is my day WOOHOO!!!
heartbreakridge01
11-02-14, 14:41
I emailed Ted on Thursday afternoon and he disapproved my form 1 that evening. I resubmitted it and another form one for two AkSU builds, the 15th I am submitting another F1 for a 10.5" AR build! Which I woukd have started this sooner!!
jimmyheadgear
11-06-14, 20:17
Thanks for the great post BW!!
My search fu isn't working.
What are reasons I'm building my SBR? You said it may depend on the state I live in as far as what answer I put.
Can I say it's for my collection?
"All lawful reasons" or "all legal reasons" are what most people use/recommend.
jimmyheadgear
11-06-14, 21:42
"All lawful reasons" or "all legal reasons" are what most people use/recommend.
Thanks again for all your help.
I never would have been able to fill this out correctly.
hamholfarm
11-07-14, 09:12
Hello,
I applied for my first form 1 following this great tutorial.
One Problem!
After I selected the "Sign & Submit" button, and added my password, I received the following:
ERROR: ORA-01400 Cannot Insert Null Into ("EPS." "EPS_Line_Item_Template". User_ID")
What is this?
I also received the message: "The application has been validated successfully."
On the home page it states: "Submitted/In Process"
Thanks!
Edit: at the bottom of the home page it states: "No Current Alerts"
jimmyheadgear
11-07-14, 09:18
Hello,
I applied for my first form 1 following this great tutorial.
One Problem!
After I selected the "Sign & Submit" button, and added my password, I received the following:
ERROR: ORA-01400 Cannot Insert Null Into ("EPS." "EPS_Line_Item_Template". User_ID")
What is this?
I also received the message: "The application has been validated successfully."
On the home page is states: "Submitted/In Process"
Thanks!
I got the same thing.
When I go through the process The Sign and Submit are greyed and so is the Pay button. But I don't think I successfully uploaded my trust pdf.
hamholfarm
11-07-14, 09:22
Jimmy,
I went back and checked, and it "looks" like I submitted my trust pdf correctly. I don't know!
I got the same thing.
When I go through the process The Sign and Submit are greyed and so is the Pay button. But I don't think I successfully uploaded my trust pdf.
You can go back in and view the form and attachments.
As a reminder, if anything you do ends up creating a new Draft form, don't delete it. Just let it sit there. I still have four duplicates sitting there.
jimmyheadgear
11-07-14, 10:14
You can go back in and view the form and attachments.
As a reminder, if anything you do ends up creating a new Draft form, don't delete it. Just let it sit there. I still have four duplicates sitting there.
When I view the form now it says Submitted across the pages instead of Draft.
Question about Page 2 on the form. Previously we checked the boxes in Section 10 and 11 before printing and mailing.
Now when I view in draft mode they are blank and there was no way to edit and these boxes never came up to start. Is this something new with EForms?
Question about Page 2 on the form. Previously we checked the boxes in Section 10 and 11 before printing and mailing.
Now when I view in draft mode they are blank and there was no way to edit and these boxes never came up to start. Is this something new with EForms?
If the applicant is an entity (which is has to be to use EForms), there's nothing on the back of a Form 1 to fill out. Not in EForms, not for a paper submission.
The applicant is the entity, not the individual. The trust/corp can't be an illegal alien, or addicted to drugs, or have renounced it's citizenship, or been dishonorably discharged, etc.
They don't disapprove paper F1s for checking the boxes, but there's zero requirement.
hamholfarm
11-08-14, 18:07
Hello,
I applied for my first form 1 following this great tutorial.
One Problem!
After I selected the "Sign & Submit" button, and added my password, I received the following:
ERROR: ORA-01400 Cannot Insert Null Into ("EPS." "EPS_Line_Item_Template". User_ID")
What is this?
I also received the message: "The application has been validated successfully."
On the home page it states: "Submitted/In Process"
Thanks!
Edit: at the bottom of the home page it states: "No Current Alerts"
So, Do you think I'm OK, or is there a problem, and what should I do?
Thanks
So, Do you think I'm OK, or is there a problem, and what should I do?
You see the form under Submitted, right? Then it's been submitted. Did you get the two email, one for payment and one to verify it was submitted?
If so, it's there. You should be able to log in and check to see if the attachment is there as well.
One other option is to send a note using Ask The Experts to verify they see the application and attachment(s).
So, Do you think I'm OK, or is there a problem, and what should I do?
Thanks
Same thing happened to me, just ignore it, you are fine.
hamholfarm
11-08-14, 19:41
Awesome!
Thank you!
johnpuga1982
11-08-14, 20:13
Awesome post! Thanks.
For those of you that like to watch instead of read, Silencer Shop made a video recently that contains most of the same info in <10 minutes.
Full disclosure...there are some things in there that are different. I talked to them several times about it and we got some things corrected. Others they chose to leave as-is after talking to their auditors (I'm assuming they meant ATF examiners, but not sure). Some examples:
1. They say ignore the Internal Control Number, while I explain how you can use it if you want
2. They give instructions on what to put in the Description box (equivalent to box 4h), while I recommend leaving it blank
3. They upload trust at the Line Item section, while I do it in the Electronic Documents section (which is where EForms bulletin says do it)
But...none of those are deal breakers. Just thought I'd post the video here and add it to the OP in case anybody wants to view it.
http://youtu.be/ZRbsltM3jyU
Just successfully submitted first E-form 1 thanks to this walk-thru (BW's not SS vid), hope all goes well. Thanks BigWaylon!
As said before, great info. Followed this guide for a recent Form 1 e-file and no problems at all. Thanks for all the leg work BW.
Glad to hear it's still paying dividends. Probably need to add a little info on filling one out for an F1 suppressor build, but I've never done one.
EricTheRed
12-15-14, 20:03
Thank you for doing this. Worked fine for me, just got approved today after 35 days.
For those wondering about assignments etc, FWIW I included a copy of my assignment page containing my other 2 NFA items.
jimmyheadgear
12-16-14, 10:17
BW you're the best!! Thanks for creating this how-to. I never would've been able to successfully fill the form out myself.
I got approved in 38 days.
Just successfully submitted first E-form 1 thanks to this walk-thru (BW's not SS vid), hope all goes well. Thanks BigWaylon!Got my approval email this morning.
Thank you for doing this. Worked fine for me, just got approved today after 35 days.
BW you're the best!! Thanks for creating this how-to. I never would've been able to successfully fill the form out myself.
I got approved in 38 days.
Got my approval email this morning.
Glad to hear the positive results!
Just had my first Tax Stamp get approved after 31 days using this set up. Thank you again for this. Do I just wait until the stamp shows up in the mail now?
Thanks
Rick
jimmyheadgear
12-22-14, 14:08
Just had my first Tax Stamp get approved after 31 days using this set up. Thank you again for this. Do I just wait until the stamp shows up in the mail now?
Thanks
Rick
It's attached to your email.
Even with the large DRAFT watermark?
Rick
Even with the large DRAFT watermark?
Rick
They did the same thing to me.
Call them and ask them to resend without the watermark.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
jimmyheadgear
12-22-14, 14:45
Edit.
It does, I will call them and get the final version resent.
Thanks, Rick
You can call. Or you can use Ask the Experts in EForms. Or you can email Ted Clutter.
The method they told me to use (had it happen 5 times) is to email nfa@atf.gov with the subject line "EForms DRAFT watermark". Include the applicant's name (your trust), along with serial number and control number from the top of the form (also shows up as permit number in EForms).
In addition to the copy you had attached to your email, you can log into EForms and view/print/save a copy.
Anyone else having issues with Eforms tonight? Trying to submit a couple Form 1's & every time I get to the "Pay" button, it hangs for about 5 minutes then kicks me back to the main page. I've tried IE, Mozilla, Chrome & Safari with no luck.
Is it me or the system?
Anyone else having issues with Eforms tonight? Trying to submit a couple Form 1's & every time I get to the "Pay" button, it hangs for about 5 minutes then kicks me back to the main page. I've tried IE, Mozilla, Chrome & Safari with no luck.
Is it me or the system?
EForms could be fine, but the pay.gov window is a different system. I wasn't in eForms last night to confirm any problems...just giving you a heads up.
EForms could be fine, but the pay.gov window is a different system. I wasn't in eForms last night to confirm any problems...just giving you a heads up.
Thanks. I tried again this morning on a different computer, on a different network and experienced the same issue. As soon as I click Pay, it just hangs for awhile then boots me back to the main page. The pay pop up window that you show in your tutorial never shows. I just wasn't sure if it's me that is doing something wrong or what.
Frustrating...
Probably nothing you're doing. If it was just coming up blank, I'd advise you to wait it out. I've seen/heard of it taking upwards of 30+ minutes for that window to populate. The fact that it's shutting down and sending you back to eForms indicates to me it's having an actual issue instead of just being slow. Hopefully you have everything saved up to that point, and are just trying to pay.
Two bits of info, as I don't know if this is your first form or you're completely familiar with the system:
1. EForms will be down tomorrow (like every Wed) from 6a-6p EST for maintenance, so definitely try again tonight
2. After you pay, you're not done...you have to go hit Sign & Submit and enter your password again. I know several people that paid and failed to do that, and wondered why they never got try submission email.
My forms are saved but I do have to "re-upload" my trust documents each time. Not sure if that is normal. I do get the green bar saying everything went through. Then I click 'confirm', then 'pay' after it becomes available and that's when things go south.
I did not know about the Wed shutdown so thanks for the heads up.
If you save after you upload, you shouldn't have to do it again. That's odd (unless you weren't saving it at that point before trying to pay).
You know, I don't remember if I did or not. I'll give it another shot this afternoon. Thanks again for the help.
You know, I don't remember if I did or not. I'll give it another shot this afternoon. Thanks again for the help.
Sounds good.
There's a known issue with a strange fix if you happen to try to upload, and the screen looks like it refreshes, but the attachment isn't there. When you try tonight, make sure it shows up in as an attachment. If so, save it and proceed. If it refreshes but it's not there, post up and let me know.
daddyusmaximus
01-06-15, 10:22
Thanks for this thread. I recently traded off my AR pistol to my boy. Plans are to SBR it, so I'm hoping he won't have the same 9 month wait I did if we e-file.
Thanks. I tried again this morning on a different computer, on a different network and experienced the same issue. As soon as I click Pay, it just hangs for awhile then boots me back to the main page. The pay pop up window that you show in your tutorial never shows. I just wasn't sure if it's me that is doing something wrong or what.
Frustrating...
I've had that happen too, but only from a corporate network. Couldn't resolve or load from the pay.gov domain for some reason. Any other network and it loads just fine.
Just wanted to say thanks for the detailed write up. Helped me get everything submitted.
So now I logged on and got right to the pay screen. I entered my CC info and that took. When I hit close on the screen that says my payment was successfully submitted, the whole shit crashes again. Now I can't even access the Eform login page. I get a blank white page that says "Service Temporarily Unavailable".
Now what the heck do I do? My payment was received, I assume, but I wasn't able to hit the Submit button.
So now I logged on and got right to the pay screen. I entered my CC info and that took. When I hit close on the screen that says my payment was successfully submitted, the whole shit crashes again. Now I can't even access the Eform login page. I get a blank white page that says "Service Temporarily Unavailable".
Now what the heck do I do? My payment was received, I assume, but I wasn't able to hit the Submit button.
You got the payment confirmation email? (Just to make sure it went through).
If so, you should be fine whenever you get back in. I had one crash at the same point in the process. When I got back in, it was set up for Sign & Submit.
ETA: I just checked and was able to log in from my laptop (IE8) and iPhone (Safari).
You got the payment confirmation email? (Just to make sure it went through).
If so, you should be fine whenever you get back in. I had one crash at the same point in the process. When I got back in, it was set up for Sign & Submit.
ETA: I just checked and was able to log in from my laptop (IE8) and iPhone (Safari).
I made it back in about 10 minutes later. You are correct, the payment was accepted & the submit button was available after I logged back in. I completed that form & the second one went off without a hitch. Now the waiting begins.
Thanks for all your help with this, I appreciate it.
Fireguy275
01-18-15, 22:58
Filed my first e-file form 1 yesterday after reading tutorial. Went smooth, no issues at all. Thanks for the information.
Great thread. Just submitted for my first SBR. For some reason when I submitted the first time, it showed "DRAFT" on the left hand side. I went back and signed again and now it shows "SUBMITTED/IN PROCESS". Why did it show DRAFT the first time? Maybe something got hung up on their servers? Either way, I think I'm in good shape and hopefully turnaround times aren't too bad.
Not sure on that one. But since it shows SUBMITTED/IN PROCESS now, you're good.
Just a reminder...if you ever go back in and view your form and end up with a duplicate (new) DRAFT copy, do not delete it. This happens if you add an attachment after you submit, and for other various/unknown reasons. I still have four copies of approved forms sitting in my Draft folder.
Yes don't delete it, but even if you do your form is still processed with no delay.
Rick
This is an absolutely great tutorial, BigWaylon. I used it tonight to submit two forms. I have been looking this tutorial over for a while now, but I still used it step by step on the first form and everything went smoothly. I got through with no stoppages, and I use Firefox.
I cruised through the second form on my own with no problems, but I did get a yellow alert box and research pending response email. I imagine that this stems from the model and caliber of my lower not being present in their respective drop down menus. I am confident that the pic I attached will support my submitted values, because the options were wrong. I know for a fact that I was submitting a form for a "5.56MM Defender 2000" and not a "22 Defendeder 2000", and there were more wrong options than that. I assume that this means that those have been submitted by someone, incorrectly.
I appreciate you taking the time to document this process so well. Good job, buddy.
By attaching the pic it should sail right through. I've had to check the box a couple times and add my own info. It's usually handled the next day. You will get another email saying it's gone to SUBMITTED/IN PROCESS, so you'll know as soon as it happens (especially since you won't be able to log in most of the day tomorrow to check).
After you get the first one done, the next ones are <10 minutes assuming the servers are working properly. I actually do most of mine from my iPhone, and only log in from my laptop to upload my attachments.
I also had an issue on the second form when I went to pay. It kicked me out to the home page after processing for a few minutes. I had everything saved up to that point, so I went right back to my form and it accepted payment with no problem the second time. All in all, I feel that eForms worked well and didn't give me many problems. I had waited so long to attempt to file a form so maybe the bugs would be worked out for the most part. I am satisfied, so far, with this strategy. After I receive approval for my forms, I will be completely satisfied.
P
I also had an issue on the second form when I went to pay. It kicked me out to the home page after processing for a few minutes. I had everything saved up to that point, so I went right back to my form and it accepted payment with no problem the second time. All in all, I feel that eForms worked well and didn't give me many problems. I had waited so long to attempt to file a form so maybe the bugs would be worked out for the most part. I am satisfied, so far, with this strategy. After I receive approval for my forms, I will be completely satisfied.
Service with a smile from BATFE. What's next? I'm waiting for the locusts....
I have a hunch your tech issue and mine are due to their servers being overloaded with all of our requests before the new proposed rules kick in. Living in Texas, I probably didn't need to squeeze my request in during the rush as the rumor is Texas will pass a "shall sign" rule for CLEO, but I figured better safe than sorry.
My CLEO will sign already, but it is much easier and I much prefer to use a Trust anyway. I did notice that even though I filed one and then immediately started the next one, there was a number in between my form numbers.
I received notification this morning that my form that was pending research is now submitted/in process. So, don't be discouraged if you receive the same response following the submission of your form. Just like all ATF forms, make sure that the information you input is correct, and if there is any question, submit a picture to illustrate the data that may be in question.
If you already sent in a hard copy trust (did it about a year ago) , how would efile work? Can I just set up a different trust for efile?
If you already sent in a hard copy trust (did it about a year ago) , how would efile work? Can I just set up a different trust for efile?
Just to clarify -
Are you trying to change a currently pending paper Form 4 to an E File Form 4 or are you trying to send a new E File Form 4 for a new item?
If it's a new item, just scan a copy of you current trust and you will upload that to your E File application.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Submitted my form 1 on 12.30.2014 got my approval email today 2.6.2015. Should have done this about a year ago. Big Waylon you are the man thanks abunch
As info...added this to the OP:
ETA 2/16/15: For anybody submitting a Form 1 for a suppressor, here's some info before you get to the next screenshot.
I submitted three recently..but no approval to guarantee this is right. But, based on my SBR forms and a lot of input from others, it should address the questions you may have:
The differences:
1. You'll use FMI as the manufacturer's code (that's listed on a slide somewhere, same thing as used with an 80% lower)
2. You'll choose Silencer from the dropdown, which will eliminate the barrel length block
3. Model is not required, but EForms forces you to choose. There's an N/A in the dropdown, which is what the dealers have put for barrel length on most of my paper F4s, so I chose that for my model. (If you want an actual model name, input whatever you want)
4. You do have to assign a serial number and choose a caliber (note: SN must have at least one numeral...it can be all numerals, or a combination of numbers/letters, but can't be all letters like a name)
5. I left the Additional Description box empty just like I did with an SBR.
Everything else seems to be the same.
Quick question that I didn't see addressed in here yet.
I made it to the Pay screen, but when I hit submit to Pay, I got an error screen saying I lost connection to the server. I received the payment confirmation email from pay.gov, but the Sign & Submit button is still grayed out and the Pay button is still available to click. It looks like the eforms system is not recognizing that I've paid. Is there an easy fix or do I need to call?
Thanks!
Quick question that I didn't see addressed in here yet.
I made it to the Pay screen, but when I hit submit to Pay, I got an error screen saying I lost connection to the server. I received the payment confirmation email from pay.gov, but the Sign & Submit button is still grayed out and the Pay button is still available to click. It looks like the eforms system is not recognizing that I've paid. Is there an easy fix or do I need to call?
Thanks!
Haven't seen that happen. I've had it crash, but if I got the payment confirmation, the sign & submit button was highlighted. Probably need to call...not sure an email or Ask The Experts will be enough.
Haven't seen that happen. I've had it crash, but if I got the payment confirmation, the sign & submit button was highlighted. Probably need to call...not sure an email or Ask The Experts will be enough.
Thanks. They ended up having to cancel that payment and I just had to go through the Pay process again to Sign and Submit.
dieselgeek
02-23-15, 14:52
Well I've not been dissaproved yet, but I'm guessing it will be. I followed the guide, it said if I printed it that 4.h would not show up on the form. Well it looks like it does show up. Unless I'm missing something here. *edit I guess what he's saying it even if you fill it out, it shows up blank. Maybe I read that wrong.**edit 2. Yes, yes I did read it wrong.
http://i.imgur.com/dckG0by.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/CK5gXaW.png
Well I've not been dissaproved yet, but I'm guessing it will be. I followed the guide, it said if I printed it that 4.h would not show up on the form. Well it looks like it does show up. Unless I'm missing something here.
Why do you think that it will be rejected?
dieselgeek
02-23-15, 15:07
Why do you think that it will be rejected?
I might be wrong, but I was under the impression that I had to put my trust name , City and State in that box. I edited my OP, because I think I misunderstood what he originally wrote.
I believe what BigWaylon is saying in his tutorial is that it doesn't matter what you type in that field, nothing will show up when you print it. I left that field blank when I submitted a paper form, and it was approved. I also left it blank on a few e-forms, but they are still pending.
dieselgeek
02-23-15, 15:28
I believe what BigWaylon is saying in his tutorial is that it doesn't matter what you type in that field, nothing will show up when you print it. I left that field blank when I submitted a paper form, and it was approved. I also left it blank on a few e-forms, but they are still pending.
Roger that, and just confirmed w/ my buddies efiled one where he entered the information. He printed it out and it was blank.
I think I'm just down to the wire on getting it approved, and getting anxious. I've got a few things in process!
I've left mine blank for both paper and EForms. Never been denied or had an error letter for that reason.
The new paper F1 that's available is a little more descriptive in that field, but I don't know if any issues.
With the EForm, you can enter it but it won't show up...as you've found out. Not sure if the examiner can see what you enter or not.
dieselgeek
02-26-15, 18:49
I've left mine blank for both paper and EForms. Never been denied or had an error letter for that reason.
The new paper F1 that's available is a little more descriptive in that field, but I don't know if any issues.
With the EForm, you can enter it but it won't show up...as you've found out. Not sure if the examiner can see what you enter or not.
Stamp arrived today! All good.
Hey BigWaylon, thanks for the tutorial. It made doing a form 1 a lot more clear.
Submitted my form 1 electronically per this thread on Jan 25th, got tax stamp March 12th. Not too shabby!
I've gotten 2 of 3 forms approved so far, and the third should come in a couple weeks. The info here is definitely correct. Thanks again, BigWaylon.
Fantastic guide and follow up information. Thanks for taking the time to post and maintain all of this. Successfully submitted my form 1 tonight - had to redo it several times due to the website bombing but all was good in the end.
OrignalRECIPE73
03-23-15, 13:15
I've got my e form back approved today. I'm off to get my lower engraved as well. I printed out the form from the pdf to put in my safe as well. That's in a nutshell all I need to do right? I don't need to sign the copy that I made do I?
I've got my e form back approved today. I'm off to get my lower engraved as well. I printed out the form from the pdf to put in my safe as well. That's in a nutshell all I need to do right? I don't need to sign the copy that I made do I?
Nothing else to do. Form should show DIGITALLY SIGNED and have your name printed already.
OrignalRECIPE73
03-23-15, 14:46
Nothing else to do. Form should show DIGITALLY SIGNED and have your name printed already.
That it does! Many thanks!
Form 1 submitted! Thanks for this thread!
Standing by waiting to see if my first efile works.
My only concern is in the area regarding caliber identification for the SBR.
Sent from my iPhone 6 plus and posted via Tapatalk.
Standing by waiting to see if my first efile works.
My only concern is in the area regarding caliber identification for the SBR.
What's the concern?
What's the concern?
I picked 300 blackout from the drop-down menu and some are telling me that was not an acceptable choice and that the ATF will deny the application.
Sent from my iPhone 6 plus and posted via Tapatalk.
I picked 300 blackout from the drop-down menu and some are telling me that was not an acceptable choice and that the ATF will deny the application.
It's not necessarily that it's not acceptable. EForms just can't handle some of the choices people have used. I know I have an approved paper F1 that was approved last summer that says "300 Blackout". I know thinkings like 7.62x39 caused problems...and that the ATF EForms bulletin says:
http://i751.photobucket.com/albums/xx151/thegreghorton/EFORMS/2E731681-2C6E-453B-B60C-0939959FA365_zpstqfbkgpk.jpg
I don't know if Blackout causes the same technical issues or not.
I don't know if Blackout causes the same technical issues or not.
If they don't want it, why do they have it as an option on THEIR dropdown menu?
I'll just keep my fingers crossed and hope that it doesn't cause any problems in getting approved.
Thanks for the info.
If they don't want it, why do they have it as an option on THEIR dropdown menu?
I'll just keep my fingers crossed and hope that it doesn't cause any problems in getting approved.
Thanks for the info.
They didn't put it there. The dropdown menus are simply populated by info used on prior submissions.
Good bit of info I discovered using my POS gov't issue computer to access eforms. If you're using IE9, open eforms in compatibility mode. It will fix most of the errors and malfunctions.
Shooterman017
03-30-15, 15:24
2 submissions completed thanks to this thread.
One without a hitch, the other with a small hiccup at the end where verification/submission occurs after payment. After entering my password it showed "Submitted" instead of "Draft" on the Certify page. Sign/Submit is grayed out as well as the Pay and Certify check box..no confirmation of status change via email or on my Home showing my other eForms, whereas the other had almost instantaneous update and verification of such change with an email. Could just be a disconnect between submission time and status update, but regardless I Asked an Expert. Waiting to see the reply, hopefully it's not a big deal.
ETA-Google Chrome user here
Thank you so much for putting together such a comprehensive, yet, easy to follow guide.
Potro
Thank you! I used this tutorial and the video and just submitted my first form 1!
Thank you! I used this tutorial and the video and just submitted my first form 1!
If you watched the Silencer Shop video, hopefully you looked at the screen instead of just listening...and put your trust/corp name instead of your name. Several people have made that mistake.
If you watched the Silencer Shop video, hopefully you looked at the screen instead of just listening...and put your trust/corp name instead of your name. Several people have made that mistake.
Thanks for looking out! I actually read through your tutorial several times, then watched the video several times taking note of the captions and added info on the screen. Then I let the video walk me through it as I was completing the forms...it all took and I'm hoping I didn't miss anything!
I apologize in advance as this is going to be slightly off topic but I'm not sure where to look and I don't want to start a new thread just for this question. Is eFile for Form 4 up or down right now?
I apologize in advance as this is going to be slightly off topic but I'm not sure where to look and I don't want to start a new thread just for this question. Is eFile for Form 4 up or down right now?
Down. It's been over a year now (went down somewhere around 4/3/14).
Down. It's been over a year now (went down somewhere around 4/3/14).
Oh! But still up for Form 1? How does that make sense?
Oh! But still up for Form 1? How does that make sense?
Everything went down on the same date. They've slowly added back several forms (most of which us regular folk don't use). They started with 6 and 6A in late April. I think the F1 was sometime in June. They also have the 2, 5, 9, 5300.11 and the 10. The website and letters have said "very soon" and/or "near future" for months now regarding the 3 & 4.
The servers couldn't handle the volume of traffic, and the F3s/F4s were the biggest offenders...so they haven't been put back. Not sure we'll see them until EForms 2.0 comes out, and who knows when that will be.
Everything went down on the same date. They've slowly added backed several forms (most of which us regular folk don't use).
The servers couldn't handle the volume of traffic, and the F3s/F4s were the biggest offenders...so they haven't been put back. Not sure we'll see them until EForms 2.0 comes out, and who knows when that will be.
Gotcha. Still running 8-9 months for paper F4?
Gotcha. Still running 8-9 months for paper F4?
For a trust/corp? They're running <90 days most of the time. The bad news is the F3 have crept up to 6-10 weeks in a lot of cases.
For a trust/corp? They're running <90 days most of the time. The bad news is the F3 have crept up to 6-10 weeks in a lot of cases.
It'll be for a Trust, this time, so that's good news. The first time I did it, as an individual, back in 2013, it was pushing nearly 10 months.
jerrysimons
04-27-15, 23:16
Has anyone else tried to save an electronic copy of the approved Form 1 (e-forms, Approved, Form 1, Actions, View Form, open PDF in OSX preview) only to be prompted for the password of the creator? I have no idea what this is. It is not my e-forms login password or anything else I can think of. Is this done by the examiner? Why?
Has anyone else tried to save an electronic copy of the approved Form 1 (e-forms, Approved, Form 1, Actions, View Form, open PDF in OSX preview) only to be prompted for the password of the creator? I have no idea what this is. It is not my e-forms login password or anything else I can think of. Is this done by the examiner? Why?
You download the file to your computer, there should be no reason to save it.
If you marked the PDF file unintentionally it may interpret your actions as a modification attempt.
I would try downloading it again.
Sent from my iPhone 6 plus and posted via Tapatalk.
jerrysimons
04-28-15, 11:15
You download the file to your computer, there should be no reason to save it.
If you marked the PDF file unintentionally it may interpret your actions as a modification attempt.
I would try downloading it again.
Sent from my iPhone 6 plus and posted via Tapatalk.
You are right. I didn't realize it already download before I was able to view it. The save is taken as an attempt to alter the form. thanks
My first Form 1 was approved today. I used this thread as a guide. Thank you Big Waylon!
My first Form 1 was approved today. I used this thread as a guide. Thank you Big Waylon!
Congrats!
Somewhere 70-75 days?
Congrats!
Somewhere 70-75 days?
73 days. Some who submitted 2/19 like me got their's approved on 5/2, according to NFATracker. Mine was approved today.
Shooterman017
05-18-15, 15:18
One without a hitch, the other with a small hiccup at the end where verification/submission occurs after payment. After entering my password it showed "Submitted" instead of "Draft" on the Certify page. Sign/Submit is grayed out as well as the Pay and Certify check box..no confirmation of status change via email or on my Home showing my other eForms, whereas the other had almost instantaneous update and verification of such change with an email. Could just be a disconnect between submission time and status update, but regardless I Asked an Expert. Waiting to see the reply, hopefully it's not a big deal.
Ended up having to refund and delete the original eForm I had issues with, and just resubmitted it. Took 4 or 5 days for the refund to show up in my bank account. Might take longer for approval, but at least it's properly submitted now.
Outstanding. It has been a few years. I think VT is about to pass a suppressor bill! I am planning to buy one ASAFP! This will help.
Anyone tried logging in to eform lately? Just went to check on the status of my stamp and I'm getting a page that states eform will be down on Wednesdays from 6AM to 6PM...but it's now Friday and I'm still getting this same message....
I just logged in no problem (6:40p ET). Might need to do an F5 refresh (or equivalent, depending on browser).
Anyone tried logging in to eform lately? Just went to check on the status of my stamp and I'm getting a page that states eform will be down on Wednesdays from 6AM to 6PM...but it's now Friday and I'm still getting this same message....
Try clearing your cache/cookies.
Thanks...worked!
Still showing "submitted/in process"
I'm at 45-50 days and getting anxious!
Thanks...worked!
Still showing "submitted/in process"
I'm at 45-50 days and getting anxious!
Don't get too anxious. Your probably at least 30 days out still.
Form 1 submitted! Thanks for this thread!
I'm at about 80 days now and haven't heard anything. I haven't logged in to check on it, I figured I'd get an email if there were any issues or when it was approved. Should I be concerned?
I'm at about 80 days now and haven't heard anything. I haven't logged in to check on it, I figured I'd get an email if there were any issues or when it was approved. Should I be concerned?
you should log in and check status. Mine was turned around in 45 days earlier this year. 80 days seems too long, unless you have some hair on your background check.
you should log in and check status. Mine was turned around in 45 days earlier this year. 80 days seems too long, unless you have some hair on your background check.
No issues in background, I'm sure of that. This is my first time using my newly created trust. Would that cause any delays? (Besides issues with how it's created)
I'm at about 80 days now and haven't heard anything. I haven't logged in to check on it, I figured I'd get an email if there were any issues or when it was approved. Should I be concerned?
Nothing to be too concerned about at 80 days. They've been approving forms in the 3/10-3/18 range this week.
I would suggest logging in and checking every day or two, as sometimes the approval emails don't make it to your Inbox.
I'm at about 80 days now and haven't heard anything. I haven't logged in to check on it, I figured I'd get an email if there were any issues or when it was approved. Should I be concerned?
I would login if I were you because I never received an email for a denial or any of my approvals.
90 days seems to be about the point of approval at the moment.
Sent from my iPhone 6 plus and posted via Tapatalk.
They will send email if denied. I submitted a spikes lower with a caliber as multi and it was denied with reason stated "multi" is not acceptable. They sent an email and a denied copy of the application attached with the explanation. Took about 90 days.
My response earlier this year took 45 days. I have been through numerous background checks before so I'm guessing that helped.
Also forgot to mention that if you're denied you have to resubmit another $200 and then wait up to three months to receive a refund on your original $200.
Only the government can get away with taking up to three months to submit a refund.
Sent from my iPhone 6 plus and posted via Tapatalk.
My response earlier this year took 45 days. I have been through numerous background checks before so I'm guessing that helped.
Not a bit. Times earlier this year were 30 days, and have steadily grown to 90+. Prior approvals really don't have anything to do with.
Nothing to be too concerned about at 80 days. They've been approving forms in the 3/10-3/18 range this week.
I would suggest logging in and checking every day or two, as sometimes the approval emails don't make it to your Inbox.
Where do I look once I login?
Where do I look once I login?
The first place to look is the tree on the left, to see which branches you have...like this:
http://i751.photobucket.com/albums/xx151/thegreghorton/EFORMS/23D838D1-136A-4DAA-A010-72FCEE20FFE5_zpszvptyke4.jpg
Then, find the form in question and view it. Sometimes it'll get approved, have the stamp and signature, but also have a big DRAFT watermark. I've also seen them Approved, but still in the Submitted branch. It's really crazy and inconsistent.
I'll have to double check mine tonight...it's been showing "sudmitted/in process" since the day I submitted. I got an email that it was submitted but nothing since. Not too worried...only about 60 days in at this point.
I'll have to double check mine tonight...it's been showing "sudmitted/in process" since the day I submitted. I got an email that it was submitted but nothing since. Not too worried...only about 60 days in at this point.
Definitely not to yours yet. They're approving mid-March submissions right now.
The first place to look is the tree on the left, to see which branches you have...like this:
http://i751.photobucket.com/albums/xx151/thegreghorton/EFORMS/23D838D1-136A-4DAA-A010-72FCEE20FFE5_zpszvptyke4.jpg
Then, find the form in question and view it. Sometimes it'll get approved, have the stamp and signature, but also have a big DRAFT watermark. I've also seen them Approved, but still in the Submitted branch. It's really crazy and inconsistent.
Here's what I see.
http://i1195.photobucket.com/albums/aa393/officerfrasher/FF8F3812-1D44-4F54-9B98-883103DBE535_zpsn7ang73s.png
http://i1195.photobucket.com/albums/aa393/officerfrasher/1309AC4A-9E03-4CA2-96C3-A6E066A8E586_zpszeagkfeb.png
You can click the eyeball icon, and then the View Form button at the top...if you want to see the form itself.
You can click the eyeball icon, and then the View Form button at the top...if you want to see the form itself.
When I hit View Form it wants to Save As. Is that what's it's supposed to do?
ETA: I saved and opened it and there's a watermark that says SUBMITTED. So I guess it's not approved yet.
Nothing to be too concerned about at 80 days. They've been approving forms in the 3/10-3/18 range this week.
I would suggest logging in and checking every day or two, as sometimes the approval emails don't make it to your Inbox.
Any idea where they're at now? I'm still waiting on mine.
Any idea where they're at now? I'm still waiting on mine.
depending on where you live, the approval time frame moves around a bit, but Mine was approved after 97 days on Monday the 29th of June.
Form 1 submitted! Thanks for this thread!
BAM!
Got this email this morning!
http://i1195.photobucket.com/albums/aa393/officerfrasher/4E6A8828-ADC3-48E9-ABDD-0D191FB1F2DE.png_zpsknw3vhbg.jpeg
Be sure to go back in and print a paper copy. You will not receive a hard copy in mail.
Be sure to go back in and print a paper copy. You will not receive a hard copy in mail.
Already done!
My form 1 for a suppressor still waiting. I submitted 4/2/15.
My form 1 for a suppressor still waiting. I submitted 4/2/15.
They might get your next week. Mine (SBR) took 97 days.
Saw this posted elsewhere in a new thread, might be helpful for others.
http://i1195.photobucket.com/albums/aa393/officerfrasher/1E6A99A2-3125-41C1-9400-9068941FC8AF_zpsobxn0b37.png
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?171053-SBR-Form-1-rejected-for-quot-AR-15-quot-in-4d-Model-field
Saw this posted elsewhere in a new thread, might be helpful for others.
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?171053-SBR-Form-1-rejected-for-quot-AR-15-quot-in-4d-Model-field
It's also covered in the initial guide...
http://i751.photobucket.com/albums/xx151/thegreghorton/EFORMS/EForm14_zps9d77dad2.jpg
enter the Model exactly as engraved on the lower/firearm
95 days and counting...gotta be getting close!!!
Let me once again reiterate how important it is to put the correct caliber for your SBR.
I put 300 Blackout and it was rejected, after resubmitting with an additional $200 fee and the correct entry of "300" it was then approved but I had to wait 112 days for my $200 refund.
http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/07/25/ced858596026bff85529a32444ac5065.jpg
Saw this posted elsewhere in a new thread, might be helpful for others.
http://i1195.photobucket.com/albums/aa393/officerfrasher/1E6A99A2-3125-41C1-9400-9068941FC8AF_zpsobxn0b37.png
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?171053-SBR-Form-1-rejected-for-quot-AR-15-quot-in-4d-Model-field
As I am still waiting, now over 100 days I was reading back through and this caught my eye. I did put AR15 in this field as my lower from Wilson has NO model engraved on it. It has the wilson symbol, place of manufacture, and serial number. No A15, no X15, no nothing...
Any thoughts on whether this will be an issue?
Should I contact ATF and try to send them pictures or anything to try and eliminate any issues?
Thanks all!
As I am still waiting, now over 100 days I was reading back through and this caught my eye. I did put AR15 in this field as my lower from Wilson has NO model engraved on it. It has the wilson symbol, place of manufacture, and serial number. No A15, no X15, no nothing...
Any thoughts on whether this will be an issue?
Should I contact ATF and try to send them pictures or anything to try and eliminate any issues?
Thanks all!I would first contact Wilson Combat and ask them.
As I am still waiting, now over 100 days I was reading back through and this caught my eye. I did put AR15 in this field as my lower from Wilson has NO model engraved on it. It has the wilson symbol, place of manufacture, and serial number. No A15, no X15, no nothing...
Any thoughts on whether this will be an issue?
Should I contact ATF and try to send them pictures or anything to try and eliminate any issues?
Thanks all!
You could contact Wilson. If it's something other than AR-15, you'll probably get denied. If they happen to not have a model listed, you should be approved, but no telling. Technically, you'll have to engrave AR-15 on it if approved. Model is an "if designated" item, so N/A would've been appropriate if it didn't have one.
Also, you can upload additional docs directly into eForms (if that's how you submitted yours). It will create a second Draft copy, and you do not want to delete the duplicate.
At this point I'd glady have it engraved....I swear I read not to use N/A and also that using or entering something that wasn't listed would cause problems but it was a while back and I may be mistaken.
At this point I'd glady have it engraved....I swear I read not to use N/A and also that using or entering something that wasn't listed would cause problems but it was a while back and I may be mistaken.
All of my F1 cans (via eForms) were approved with N/A, because I didn't want to engrave a model name.
Entering something that wasn't listed usually caused a delay of 48 hours or less, but is the proper way to do it if what you wanted wasn't in the drop-down. For that matter, there's a LOT of stuff in the drop-downs will get you denied...since it's all based on previous users' input and not actually the ATF providing valid options for users to choose from.
Guess I'll just keep my fingers crossed...don't know that it makes sense to attach additional pictures or anything at this point...does it?
APPROVED! Thanks again for all of the help and the great info.
Originally submitted 4/19 and approved 8/3 so for anyone still waiting...just over 100 days...
BigBoss300
09-22-15, 09:44
I went the eform route but when i go check my form its still under draft? is this normal? on the certify section all the sign, pay, and next button are all greyed out? the only email i got was the confirmation of payment.
I went the eform route but when i go check my form its still under draft? is this normal? on the certify section all the sign, pay, and next button are all greyed out? the only email i got was the confirmation of payment.
After paying, did you go back and hit Sign & Submit? This would've required you to enter your password again.
In addition to the payment confirmation, I've always gotten a confirmation that it either went In Process or Pending Research...even for those that I never got an Approval email on.
When you look at the main screen in EForms, and click to where you can see your list of forms...does it have a Permit Number and/or a Submitted Date? If not...I don't believe it's actually Submitted.
BigBoss300
09-22-15, 13:33
After paying, did you go back and hit Sign & Submit? This would've required you to enter your password again.
In addition to the payment confirmation, I've always gotten a confirmation that it either went In Process or Pending Research...even for those that I never got an Approval email on.
When you look at the main screen in EForms, and click to where you can see your list of forms...does it have a Permit Number and/or a Submitted Date? If not...I don't believe it's actually Submitted.
yes I signed and submit after i payed and on the bottom of the certify tab on the bottom where it list confirmation is says "Your application has been submitted for processing" but when i go back home it still list the eform under draft. Is this a glitch?
yes I signed and submit after i payed and on the bottom of the certify tab on the bottom where it list confirmation is says "Your application has been submitted for processing" but when i go back home it still list the eform under draft. Is this a glitch?
Sounds like it. Is there a Submitted Date and/or Permit Number? Seen in this view:
http://i751.photobucket.com/albums/xx151/thegreghorton/EFORMS/EForm26_zps4d5f2837.jpg
BigBoss300
09-22-15, 13:55
it looks exactly like this:
http://i751.photobucket.com/albums/xx151/thegreghorton/EFORMS/EForm26a_zpsdc0809eb.jpg
but i did not give me a permit number nor submission date. Gave them a call but the line was busy....
Waylon,
It was great to follow your forms as I completed the Form 1 on a SBR.
Thanks for creating a great resource!
Eric
Waylon,
It was great to follow your forms as I completed the Form 1 on a SBR.
Thanks for creating a great resource!
Eric
Glad people are still finding it and getting use out of it.
-Greg
Whiskey_Bravo
12-16-15, 16:07
Awesome walk through. I will be using it in the next couple of days.
Thank you for this walk through.... just went through the process and it helped a ton.
Now I wait..............
Whiskey_Bravo
01-05-16, 14:50
Thanks again for the walk through. Helped a lot as I filled a couple out today.
So now that I have my approved Form 1, do I add this item (SBR) to my "Assignment To The XXXXX Trust" form?
So now that I have my approved Form 1, do I add this item (SBR) to my "Assignment To The XXXXX Trust" form?
All depends on the state and trust. Did yours come with instructions, or if you had a lawyer do it ask them.
Some states have Assignment of Property pages, some have Schedules. Some have both. Some states required witnesses and/or notaries.
Mine has nothing but a Schedule A...no signatures required. So, I simply type the info and print a new copy.
All depends on the state and trust. Did yours come with instructions, or if you had a lawyer do it ask them.
Some states have Assignment of Property pages, some have Schedules. Some have both. Some states required witnesses and/or notaries.
Mine has nothing but a Schedule A...no signatures required. So, I simply type the info and print a new copy.
I had mine done by Coyote Rifleworks. I wrote in a Glock 22 on the form in the beginning to giving it "value" or whatever, after it was created, before I e-filed for the SBR.
http://i1195.photobucket.com/albums/aa393/officerfrasher/5EA5E36A-15A1-4A55-90A1-D1BDA4791CEA_zpshyxthcok.jpg
The reason for asking is I'm about to file for another SBR and I don't want there to be any hiccups.
The reason for asking is I'm about to file for another SBR and I don't want there to be any hiccups.
I've never rescanned my trust with an updated Schedule. They've approved 30+ stamps with nothing but "$200 cash" on mine. I just keep the current one at home. They'll even accept a blank Schedule according to everybody I know that's tried it. They just want the Schedule to be included if the trust uses one.
This is the only thing I've ever sent in mine:
http://i751.photobucket.com/albums/xx151/thegreghorton/Mobile%20Uploads/C79DAB69-65C2-4EBB-8B61-CE7E84FC67AD_zpslnndvk8e.jpg
I've never rescanned my trust with an updated Schedule. They've approved 30+ stamps with nothing but "$200 cash" on mine. I just keep the current one at home. They'll even accept a blank Schedule according to everybody I know that's tried it. They just want the Schedule to be included if the trust uses one.
This is the only thing I've ever sent in mine:
http://i751.photobucket.com/albums/xx151/thegreghorton/Mobile%20Uploads/C79DAB69-65C2-4EBB-8B61-CE7E84FC67AD_zpslnndvk8e.jpg
Thanks.
I just submitted the F1. Took SEVERAL times to get it completed and sent. The website kept freezing up or saying "service unavailable." I'm sure they're pretty flooded right now. We'll see how long this takes.
So with the new 41F rules, does my F4 have to be approved before the changes take effect in July or just be submitted? (To avoid everyone on the Trust doing cards and pics)
Submitted.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
So with the new 41F rules, does my F4 have to be approved before the changes take effect in July or just be submitted? (To avoid everyone on the Trust doing cards and pics)
The announcement said Pending or Postmarked prior to 7/13/16.
The postmarked clearly refers to paper forms, so I'd have to think anything submitted meets the "pending" requirement. The one gray area to me would be something you submitted, but it goes into Pending Research (usually for manufacturer, model or caliber). In eForms, it doesn't actually get a Submitted date until it moves from PR to S/IP.
Added this note today, just below the screenshot of where you fill out the Licensee/Permittee info:
ETA 1/21/16: This is not new information, I've just never taken the time to add a note until now. There is a known defect in eForms that when you enter your ZIP, you sometimes cannot choose your correct county. This is mainly in situations where the ZIP spans multiple counties. It's a non-issue as far as approvals go. Simply enter your ZIP, select the City, then take whatever County it gives you. Many users have questioned the ATF on this issue, and here's one of the responses:
We are aware of the glitch regarding the county and do not have the funding to address at the present time. Submit with the incorrect county and this will not impact the processing of the application in this instance.
Thank you for taking the time to post all of this info! I just filled out my first form1 online and it went smooth with no problems. The site was slow but all my trust info loaded up fine and payment accepted. Now the wait begins.
Just wanted to say a HUGE thank you to BigWaylon for taking the time to create this guide. Answered a bunch of questions for me while doing my submission. Now the wait....
You're welcome...
Also...I made a couple updates. Silencer Shop redid their YouTube video, so I noted that with a new link. Also added a note addressing why you don't get asked question 4j about whether the item is being reactivated (answer: because, for whatever reason, eForms can't be used for reactivations).
hillpuller
02-29-16, 23:06
Hi new to the forum here. I just wanted to give a big THANKS for the great tutorial. I could not have filled the eform out correctly with out the information you put together. I can only imagine how much effort you have put into this. Thanks again BigWaylon!
You got it!
Too bad it may be of no use in ~4.5 months. :(
Thank you for taking the time to put this together. It is Outstanding! I just filled out three.
I have been looking for a photo of one of my lowers but can not find it. I don't think I have one because it's been stashed away for years waiting to become an SBR. BCM changed their name/rollmark! I used Bravo Company Inc. for the form 4 on my Factory BCM SBR in 2009. It is in the 2400 serial number range. The BCM lower I am doing a form 1 for today is in the 3500 serial number range. I have Bravo Company Inc. in my Trust paperwork but it looks like it might be Bravo Company MFG Inc. I wonder if it will be approved. Can I send a photo in while the form is in process? The lower is an hour away now.
I think this is what my roll mark looks like:
http://i859.photobucket.com/albums/ab160/usmcvet0331/BCM%20Lower_RollMark_zpsosprfyx3.jpg (http://s859.photobucket.com/user/usmcvet0331/media/BCM%20Lower_RollMark_zpsosprfyx3.jpg.html)
My first form 4 says Bravo Company Inc.
I changed it this time to Bravo Company MFG for the form 1 but it's Bravo Company Inc. in my trust. I will snap photos of the Factory SBR and the Lower I'm doing the form 1 for so I can share it with ATF.
This is their newer rollmark:
http://i859.photobucket.com/albums/ab160/usmcvet0331/BCM%20New_zpskfofzzhv.jpg (http://s859.photobucket.com/user/usmcvet0331/media/BCM%20New_zpskfofzzhv.jpg.html)
Not sure it'll matter.
You can upload additional attachments (as long as you don't already have 10) after its submitted. Just be aware it may create a duplicate Draft copy. Don't delete the draft, as it'll delete both. I have multiple approved forms from 2014 & 2015 that still have a draft copy sitting in eForms.
Thanks again. I revived email all 3 were received. I just dropout two form 4's off at the LGS now to wait. I saw the draft folder and one that said submitted or pending. When I clicked on them nothing opened up. I will log in again Monday to check.
Mine says:
SUBMITTED/IN PROCESS
Does that mean it's not gone to Pending yet? I submitted Form 1 E-file mid-December. I am thinking it'd be close to being done by now but am getting nervous regarding the 'in process' part.
Mine says:
SUBMITTED/IN PROCESS
Does that mean it's not gone to Pending yet? I submitted Form 1 E-file mid-December. I am thinking it'd be close to being done by now but am getting nervous regarding the 'in process' part.
You're good. S/IP is the eForms equivalent to Pending in the world of paper forms.
I've seen several mid-Dec forms get approved in the last week. I'm keeping a close eye on them because I have a 12/19 eF1 in the system.
Mine says:
SUBMITTED/IN PROCESS
Does that mean it's not gone to Pending yet? I submitted Form 1 E-file mid-December. I am thinking it'd be close to being done by now but am getting nervous regarding the 'in process' part.
That's normal. It goes from that to "Approved". (Provided nothing is wrong)
You're good. S/IP is the eForms equivalent to Pending in the world of paper forms.
I've seen several mid-Dec forms get approved in the last week. I'm keeping a close eye on them because I have a 12/19 eF1 in the system.
Roger that, thanks!
12/19 is the day for both of us! Here's to hoping...
no need to include Schedule w/ trust upload on F1 efile right?
Roger that, thanks!
12/19 is the day for both of us! Here's to hoping...
I'd expect any day now. I had one submitted 12/11 & it was approved 3/10. They seem to be averaging around the 3 month mark, give or take...
I'd expect any day now. I had one submitted 12/11 & it was approved 3/10. They seem to be averaging around the 3 month mark, give or take...
Yeah, any day. I've seen 12/19 forms approved a couple weeks ago, but then 12/4 forms approved in the last couple days. Just enough to keep me antsy...have about 3 dozen stamps, but this is my first SBS (also have my first AOW pending, but it's a paper F4).
no need to include Schedule w/ trust upload on F1 efile right?
If the trust references a Schedule, they usually want to see one...even if it's blank.
91 days in on a Form 1. Hopefully it'll be approved in the next 7-10 days!
91 days in on a Form 1. Hopefully it'll be approved in the next 7-10 days!
Approved! 98 days in total. Thanks again for this guide!
Thank you for this. It helped a lot and dumbed things down for me.
How are you guys doing stripped lowers (AR9 lower specifically)? Just guesstimate the final OAL?
Thank you for this. It helped a lot and dumbed things down for me.
How are you guys doing stripped lowers (AR9 lower specifically)? Just guesstimate the final OAL?
You've got to get it as close as you can. On the AR platform, it's often barrel length plus 19". The AR9 may be slightly different, but not by much.
Thanks to my attorney and this guide, I got off my butt and joined the NFA club.
I put in a form 1 for my SLR-107UR and a second for my SR-15 lower. Next up is a paper form 4 for a can.
FYI, I was given an ID ending in 364 on 5/12 and the second ID was 851 on 5/14. Assuming the ID auto-increments, it's amazing how many people are submitting forms right now.
Again, thanks to all involved in the hard work and info on this thread. The eForms system is not hard to use but the first time can be a bit daunting. I was happy to have a step by step guide and everyone's experience to reference.
FYI, I was given an ID ending in 364 on 5/12 and the second ID was 851 on 5/14. Assuming the ID auto-increments, it's amazing how many people are submitting forms right now.
There are definitely a lot of people submitting forms, but remember there are also a handful of industry forms still available, so if they pull from the same consecutive list of IDs, it's not as many F1s as it looks like.
Just wanted to say thanks to BigWaylon and everyone else who has contributed info to this thread. I just submitted a Form 1 on 5/14. Hopefully if it is still taking around 100 days it will be approved the end of August.
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