View Full Version : BCM MK12 or BCM RECCE for Precision Upper
I'm trying to decide between the:
BCM MK12 with the 13" larue handguard
http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-SPR-Mk-12-Mod-Bravo2X-p/bcm-urg-mk12-2x%20lt13.htm
BCM 16" SS410 RECCE with the 12" larue handguard.
http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-SS410-16-Mid-Length-Upper-Receiver-Group-p/bcm-urg-mid16%20ss410%20lt12.htm
The optic I have ordered for the upper is the Viper PST 2.5-10x FFP. The main use of the gun will be hog hunting (with 70 gr TSX's) and target shooting out to 500 yards.
What is ya'lls recommendation on which upper to go with? And how do ya'll feel about the ionbond coating for the SS410 barrels? Is it worth the exta $50?
Thanks!
For your uses I don't think you will see a difference in performance. At real long range, say 800 yards +, the extra length of the SPR would be useful.
davidjinks
02-19-14, 18:18
I have a HCS MK12 with LaRue 13.2" rail and a HCS RECCE with LaRue 13.2" rail.
For your requirements, I don't think you could go wrong with the BCM RECCE. I can easily put lead on steel at 300 with my RECCE w/a NF 1-4x24 as easily as I can with my MK12 w/a NF 2.5-10x24.
I personally don't think you'll be losing anything by going with a 16" over an 18" barrel.
SilverBullet432
02-19-14, 18:26
The real question is: what trigger you runnin'?
davidjinks
02-19-14, 18:29
Not sure of this was meant for me or the OP...
My MK12 runs a SSA-E and my RECCE runs a SD-C.
The real question is: what trigger you runnin'?
ScatmanCrothers
02-19-14, 18:30
The real question is: what trigger you runnin'?
When deciding on an upper? :confused:
Both have very small advantages over the other....
SPR......
1.) Slight velocity gain over the comparable 16" given both use the same blank, only difference being barrel lengths. (ultimately doesn't factor in the end game very much at all, and only when your shooting at the very limit of the full .223/5.56 distance/wind envelope.)
2.) Increased overall weight + the potential rifle length gas yields the ability to be a smoother/softer shooting rifle.
3.) Easier to bed down for use in prone or other supported position given it's added weight.
Recce.....
1.) Quite significant gains in portability...by means of both weight and OAL. Better suited for on the move type applications being both slightly more portable/mobile. Ultimately this goes a long way, and at least equal to the advantages to the SPR.
Get both, hold the barrel blank type constant...and see for yourself. That's what I did :)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dd_99TxLnwI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dd_99TxLnwI
Some of the better video I've seen of bullet trace!
When deciding on an upper? :confused:
Not completely irrelevant, but in this case it's a pair of uppers that do make the shooter the most likely weak link.
The Recce, especially with 77gr or 69gr SMK will do everything you want out to 500 just as well, in a slightly lighter package. Might be honestly worth putting the KMR handguard on the BCM recce, since that complete upper is right in the range of minimum weight for the performance out to 600m, since most of the weight is the barrel. They're in stock ATM as well.
While there's nothing wrong with the 18" units, I have two 18" SPRs and I find myself using my 16" because it's a bit handier.
SilverBullet432
02-20-14, 13:01
When deciding on an upper? :confused:
Well, I meant most precision rifles utilize some sort of tuned trigger, would you build a spr with a g.i trigger? ( not being an ass, im just tryna get my thought across). Staying on topic, id say mk12 upper. Also, I have it understood that using the correct ammo makes a day and night difference when shooting spr's???
ETA: I think Trident hit the nail on the head.
ScatmanCrothers
02-20-14, 15:50
Well, I meant most precision rifles utilize some sort of tuned trigger, would you build a spr with a g.i trigger? ( not being an ass, im just tryna get my thought across). Staying on topic, id say mk12 upper. Also, I have it understood that using the correct ammo makes a day and night difference when shooting spr's???
ETA: I think Trident hit the nail on the head.
Understood. I like my SD-E for what it is but there are plenty of shooters out there that would put me to shame with a QMS on a similar setup on a consistent basis. I get what you're saying though, also a part worth considering on his rig.
Not completely irrelevant, but in this case it's a pair of uppers that do make the shooter the most likely weak link.
The Recce, especially with 77gr or 69gr SMK will do everything you want out to 500 just as well, in a slightly lighter package. Might be honestly worth putting the KMR handguard on the BCM recce, since that complete upper is right in the range of minimum weight for the performance out to 600m, since most of the weight is the barrel. They're in stock ATM as well.
While there's nothing wrong with the 18" units, I have two 18" SPRs and I find myself using my 16" because it's a bit handier.
I'd say the 16 too. They'd both reach out to the distances desired. Working up a load with the 77 SMKs would give more of a benefit than the extra two inches/increased weight. I've had some really good results out of a couple VV powders and Varget/400 primers, crimped, but results vary from my different setups. Wish I was deciding between a new spr/recce to start the paces all over again with...
Yeah right now either upper would go on a stock colt 6920 lower, but my next project is to build it's own lower with a SSA-E. I really appreciate all the input from everyone.
Does anyone have any experience with BCM's ionbond coating they put on the SS410 barrels? I honestly like the bare stainless look better but if the coating has some significant advantages I might go with it instead of the plain stainless finish.
Yeah right now either upper would go on a stock colt 6920 lower, but my next project is to build it's own lower with a SSA-E. I really appreciate all the input from everyone.
Does anyone have any experience with BCM's ionbond coating they put on the SS410 barrels? I honestly like the bare stainless look better but if the coating has some significant advantages I might go with it instead of the plain stainless finish.
Run the bare stainless if you like it, it's just fine. Ionbond is nice for a harder use barrel, I guess, but in that application it doesn't do much more than a parkerize treatment, and neither does much more than bare SS if you clean it each trip, as I suspect a precision upper my warrant for you.
The SSA-E (or, if you intend to stick with just one lower, you'd be truly amazed at how good the SSA is for light precision work, yet still 100% capable as a defensive carbine - if you want to run one lower and two uppers, I'd go SSA - two lowers, still an argument to be made for SSA) is an amazing trigger - just be aware that getting one Geissele trigger will incur the desire for another if you have a second lower. I liked my first so much, I'm now down to just two triggers that aren't a GSSA or GSSA-E - and they're KAC NM units.
A far as length - you have to be out where velocity matters, or shooting quick enough split times where tenths matter to see where the rifle gassed 18" units can outperform the 16". With heavier rounds, that velocity difference isn't as key until you're focusing on shooting MOA past 500yd where that bit of velocity can help deal with wind, but it has a lot more to do with minimizing how much adjustment is required from the shooter.
If budget is a major requirement, I'd look seriously at upgrading the Colt lower (SSA, better stock such as a SOPMOD type) since that's an upgrade which improves the performance of both uppers you'd own, and can certainly be kept on the 6920 as funds allow for completing the next rifle.
Obscenejesster
02-20-14, 18:44
Not completely irrelevant, but in this case it's a pair of uppers that do make the shooter the most likely weak link.
The Recce, especially with 77gr or 69gr SMK will do everything you want out to 500 just as well, in a slightly lighter package. Might be honestly worth putting the KMR handguard on the BCM recce, since that complete upper is right in the range of minimum weight for the performance out to 600m, since most of the weight is the barrel. They're in stock ATM as well.
While there's nothing wrong with the 18" units, I have two 18" SPRs and I find myself using my 16" because it's a bit handier.
What is the minimum weight for an upper for performance out to 600m?
I'm too busy this evening to look it through, but it's going to be at least a 1.5lb barrel in 16" length, probably closer to 2lb, with muzzle device, gas block, gas tube, upper, BCG, and CH. It's more so that anything lighter than the BCM KMR setups are likely running a thinner profile barrel, which is likely a reduction in potential precision, since there isn't anywhere else with available parts worth trying to shave off significant weight off an AR at the moment.
My less than rigorous look at the 16" Stainless barrel offerings awhile back showed that most 16" SS barrel weights hovered around the 2lb range, give or take a few ounces depending on the profile.
Obscenejesster
02-20-14, 23:39
My less than rigorous look at the 16" Stainless barrel offerings awhile back showed that most 16" SS barrel weights hovered around the 2lb range, give or take a few ounces depending on the profile.
Yup... I just spent about a month researching 16in. SS barrels and found that most of them were 32+ ounces. I wanted to do a RECCE build on the lighter side of things so I ended up finding a Rainier Select which weighs exactly 30 ounces. I'm going to pair it up with a 13" KMR which should make for a relatively light all purpose build.
Sent with a Gen 2 Nexus 7
Don't worry too much about a couple ounces, especially on a precision rifle. It helps to not have it be a boat anchor, especially towards the muzzle end, but it's not like the Rainier Select is a slouch - I just almost always have the feeling that for a precision rifle, there's some value in the expensive ones because it can delay next-rifle-itis. That with a KMR is going to be in the weight range of cheaper non-precision rifles, so most of the cost is likely to be an optic capable of that impressive capability range. Just under 9lb depending on optic/stock setup, and it does everything 5.56 excels at.
Obscenejesster
02-21-14, 16:37
Don't worry too much about a couple ounces, especially on a precision rifle. It helps to not have it be a boat anchor, especially towards the muzzle end, but it's not like the Rainier Select is a slouch - I just almost always have the feeling that for a precision rifle, there's some value in the expensive ones because it can delay next-rifle-itis. That with a KMR is going to be in the weight range of cheaper non-precision rifles, so most of the cost is likely to be an optic capable of that impressive capability range. Just under 9lb depending on optic/stock setup, and it does everything 5.56 excels at.
Yea, I guess you could say I'm going for a all purpose set up rather than a precision build. I just wanted to build something MOA accurate without being a pain in the ass to run and gun with.
I was thinking about using a SWFA SS 1x6.
Yea, I guess you could say I'm going for a all purpose set up rather than a precision build. I just wanted to build something MOA accurate without being a pain in the ass to run and gun with.
I was thinking about using a SWFA SS 1x6.
I don't have any time behind that optic - just realize that the low powered variable optics, after a mount, are going to be about 25% of the weight of the rifle, so worrying about a few ounces of barrel isn't that critical when the range of masses between optics is so massive. That said, between ways to save weight for money without giving up performance, both suffer from definite cases of diminishing returns as far as weight and cost go
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