View Full Version : Is 380 acp Inadequate?
Number 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=79CodjHFwVI&feature=share&list=UUQN1DJNlSz3AlvY74jwflIg&index=1
Number 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=79CodjHFwVI&list=UUQN1DJNlSz3AlvY74jwflIg&feature=share
I pocket carry a KAHR P380 daily. I believe it would make somebody get off of me when they felt the stinging/burning.
I carry GDHP in one mag and FMJ in extra mag.
If you can carry something better (9mm) carry it. If you are somehow in that 1% of not being able to conceal a 9x19 in some circumstance than by all means carry 380acp. But understand it's limitations. If you do, I recommend finding an FMJ that runs reliably in YOUR weapon.
Personally, as a primary, I think it is generally lacking. Not to say that .380 can't do the job, as I have seen it put people down, and know people you have used it. I have also seen guys take multiple .45ACP and keep going. So first and last accuracy is key and you need to be able to put rounds on target where they need to go to stop the threat. However, on that same note, I don't generally find most .380s to be accurate enough beyond close range distances when compared to what I generally carry and personally don't like going below 9mm. Also up where I am at with the amount of layers a lot of people wear I don't feel that a .380 may reliably get to vitals.
The second argument that I get putting forward the thoughts above is that most shootings take place at close range under X distance. My response is simply that I am not betting my life on an 80% chance that if I am in the 1% or less situation of having to use it that it is a single attacker under so many yards. Prepare for the worst and hope for the best and all that you know.
That said, if you feel secure with it rock on. I have known guys who are happy carrying NAA .22LR mini revolvers and thought me carrying a 9mm with a reload was excessive since I had more than 3X the rounds before I had to reload. Also have run into guys who thought I was insane carrying a 9mm pussy round since it wouldn't stop a squirrel and anything below .45ACP was useless and that they carried a .44magnum because it was always a one shot kill. :rolleyes:
On a last note, having spoke to a man who has used a .380 in a defensive situation, shooting the other guy in the teeth appears to be rather effective.
FloridaWoodsman
02-19-14, 23:48
Pick good ammo and be prepared for a for a follow-up shot.
It's the only reasonable caliber I can comfortably conceal.
platoonDaddy
02-20-14, 04:44
Check out Post # 4 of following link:
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?76859-380-carry-ammo-Critical-Defense-vs-Golden-Saber-vs-Barnes
Number 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=79CodjHFwVI&feature=share&list=UUQN1DJNlSz3AlvY74jwflIg&index=1
Number 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=79CodjHFwVI&list=UUQN1DJNlSz3AlvY74jwflIg&feature=share
A thin modern day car door?......I have a .17 caliber pellet pistol that will shoot right through one. A melon?....I remember making rubber band powered sling shots that would launch a rock clean through a watermelon.
In comparison to standard service calibers.....it absolutely does suck. It is not capable of being loaded with a bullet with a decent sectional density rating.....thus why is it has very poor penetration characteristics. Particularly against laminated glass. 9mm or .38spl is the way to go in a subcompact. A cartridge that performs well and fits in a .380 sized gun can be done, but no one has marketed one. Idealy, a high pressure .30-.32 caliber bullet with a 110gr-115gr JHP traveling at least 900fps.
teutonicpolymer
02-20-14, 12:40
Personally, as a primary, I think it is generally lacking. Not to say that .380 can't do the job, as I have seen it put people down, and know people you have used it. I have also seen guys take multiple .45ACP and keep going. So first and last accuracy is key and you need to be able to put rounds on target where they need to go to stop the threat. However, on that same note, I don't generally find most .380s to be accurate enough beyond close range distances when compared to what I generally carry and personally don't like going below 9mm. Also up where I am at with the amount of layers a lot of people wear I don't feel that a .380 may reliably get to vitals.
The second argument that I get putting forward the thoughts above is that most shootings take place at close range under X distance. My response is simply that I am not betting my life on an 80% chance that if I am in the 1% or less situation of having to use it that it is a single attacker under so many yards. Prepare for the worst and hope for the best and all that you know.
That said, if you feel secure with it rock on. I have known guys who are happy carrying NAA .22LR mini revolvers and thought me carrying a 9mm with a reload was excessive since I had more than 3X the rounds before I had to reload. Also have run into guys who thought I was insane carrying a 9mm pussy round since it wouldn't stop a squirrel and anything below .45ACP was useless and that they carried a .44magnum because it was always a one shot kill. :rolleyes:
On a last note, having spoke to a man who has used a .380 in a defensive situation, shooting the other guy in the teeth appears to be rather effective.
I have actually seen some very accurate .380s like mauser hsc's. I think it is owed to the fixed barrel.
Tomahawk_Ghost
02-20-14, 13:01
My niece went through a stupid stage in her life at 17. Parents got divorced she decided to get back at them. Was dating a guy who was an ex star football player who was dealing Oxycontin. In Gadsden, Al he gets into it with a gangster. Gangster pulls a stolen .380, her boyfriend jumps in the car and yells drive. She turns and the gangster shoots through the back window (three feet from the window). Bullet hits her in the face at the corner of her left nose nostril, goes through the roof of her mouth, stops next to her jugular. She floors the gas, gangster still shooting, she drives the wrong way down highway 431 for a mile to a gas station dodging traffic. Jumps out of the car, runs into the restroom, splashes her face with water and feels the hole. Surgeons at UAB would not take the bullet out, afraid they would kill her. Two years later she thought she had strep throat, gargling with salt water she spits out blood and the bullet. It went through her tonsils not the hole it made. Surgeon at UAB said in 20 years he had never seen that. She showed me the bullet, it was a HP dark looking(probably because of corrosion) maybe a Winchester design.
I retired my West German Walther PPK/s from carrying after that. Typically carry a 9mm or 40S&W.
Oh yes, gangster was caught and got 20 years in the state prison.
My niece has her act together now, works for AT&T and lives a normal life. Only has a small scar by her nose from the bullet wound. Had braces and surgery. Still says she has headaches when the weather changes but she is good considering.
Why carry .380 when it does not have higher capacity than 9mm, and most .380 now have a 9mm variant that is hardly any bigger if that.
I have one .380 an H&K HK4, its .380. with a .22lr barrel and mag as well. Cool gun, nothing I ever carry, and barely shoot.
My Khar PM9 is smaller, more powerful, more comfortable to shoot and more accurate, with the same recoil. It also shoots all of the thousands of rounds of 9mm I have around for my 6 9mm pistols.
But to answer your question directly yes it is inadequate by comparison to other guns of the same dimensions.
soldier_twiggy
02-20-14, 13:22
^Holy f**k...glad it worked out!
I have also always wondered the merits of the .380. I looked up the energy each round produced and on the chart I saw the .380 "out performed" the .38. Ans I'm very confident in my .38, so I'm starting to play with the idea of a .380 for the ole lady.
sent from my secure, NSA proof satellite uplink.
.380 is what I carry when I can't carry a gun.
As soon as I finish typing this out, I'm off to the store to pick up my new 9mm Shield. The Shield will fill many of the roles that my .380 fills now (esp. on duty backup to my G17 or 19), but I still see a reason to keep my Bodyguard around. It's a nice gym/jogging/pocket carry gun.
As for why not carry something else of comparable size? Since I carry under LEOSA, my department can say what I can and can't carry. This may change shortly, but keep in mind for some people, there are other regulations in play.
^Holy f**k...glad it worked out!
I have also always wondered the merits of the .380. I looked up the energy each round produced and on the chart I saw the .380 "out performed" the .38. Ans I'm very confident in my .38, so I'm starting to play with the idea of a .380 for the ole lady.
sent from my secure, NSA proof satellite uplink.
Uhhh.....no. A .380 is not in the same realm as a .38spl. Typical .38spl loads of 110gr-135gr rival those in 9mm. The .38spl 135gr+P Gold Dot out of a 4" service revolver will meet all of the FBI protocol tests including penetrating up to 12" after passing through a windshield. Virtually ALL .380acp loads will only penetrate up to 4" in gel after passing through a windshield. More and more vehicles now days are using laminated class on all of their windows, not just he windshield. Do you plan on shooting through laminated glass?.......maybe, maybe not. However, the FBI tests represent different levels of stresses a bullet can undergo during a potential gun fight.......many of which cannot be predicted ahead of time. Do you want to carry something that has clearly failed a time tested self defense standard, or do you want to at least take the precaution of meeting that standard before you have throw down?
Some reading on the .380acp and other BUG sized guns:
http://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?4336-BUG-s-380-ACP-vs-38-Sp
soldier_twiggy
02-20-14, 14:21
Uhhh.....no. A .380 is not in the same realm as a .38spl. Typical .38spl loads of 110gr-135gr rival those in 9mm. The .38spl 135gr+P Gold Dot out of a 4" service revolver will meet all of the FBI protocol tests including penetrating up to 12" after passing through a windshield. Virtually ALL .380acp loads will only penetrate up to 4" in gel after passing through a windshield. More and more vehicles now days are using laminated class on all of their windows, not just he windshield. Do you plan on shooting through laminated glass?.......maybe, maybe not. However, the FBI tests represent different levels of stresses a bullet can undergo during a potential gun fight.......many of which cannot be predicted ahead of time. Do you want to carry something that has clearly failed a time tested self defense standard, or do you want to at least take the precaution of meeting that standard before you have throw down?
Gotcha...like I said, that info was from some chart I found via Google awhile back.
My guess was the lighter weight bullet coupled with a higher pressure cartridge is how the .380 could even be on the same playing field as the .38...again, nothing gospel here, just something I read somewhere.
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Wasn't that cop in Orlando using a .380 when he killed the guy at the theater last month?
I recall a Detroit cop being killed by some guy w/ a .380 around 2008. So, yes, like all small flying metal projectiles, it can work. But there are better choices.
soldier_twiggy
02-20-14, 14:30
I totally agree, but the threads about em, so I thought I'd check that info I read "once upon a time."
I carry a G17 cut to accept G19 mags and I use a Carry Clip instead of a holster as I'm a skinny little s**t and it's hard to hide any gun/holster on me.
sent from my secure, NSA proof satellite uplink.
Gotcha...like I said, that info was from some chart I found via Google awhile back.
My guess was the lighter weight bullet coupled with a higher pressure cartridge is how the .380 could even be on the same playing field as the .38...again, nothing gospel here, just something I read somewhere.
sent from my secure, NSA proof satellite uplink.
The problem with the .380 is that it cannot use longer bullets, which also have a higher sectional density rating:
http://www.firearmstactical.com/tacticalbriefs/volume4/number1/toc.htm
Couple that with the .380's low velocity, and you get the worst of both worlds.
Generally you need either high velocity, or high sectional density in order for a bullet to punch through barriers well and penetrate deeply after a JHP has expanded. The .38spl is relatively low velocity, but it is capable of using a very high sectional density bullet. The 9mm on the other hand is able to do BOTH.......which is why it is a superior caliber to both. You just can't make the .380 fast enough, and you cannot load it with a higher sectional density bullet in order to make up for its shortcomings. By all accounts, it is a dead end cartridge.
Tiny Killer Robot
02-20-14, 18:27
My niece went through a stupid stage in her life at 17. Parents got divorced she decided to get back at them. Was dating a guy who was an ex star football player who was dealing Oxycontin. In Gadsden, Al he gets into it with a gangster. Gangster pulls a stolen .380, her boyfriend jumps in the car and yells drive. She turns and the gangster shoots through the back window (three feet from the window). Bullet hits her in the face at the corner of her left nose nostril, goes through the roof of her mouth, stops next to her jugular. She floors the gas, gangster still shooting, she drives the wrong way down highway 431 for a mile to a gas station dodging traffic. Jumps out of the car, runs into the restroom, splashes her face with water and feels the hole. Surgeons at UAB would not take the bullet out, afraid they would kill her. Two years later she thought she had strep throat, gargling with salt water she spits out blood and the bullet. It went through her tonsils not the hole it made. Surgeon at UAB said in 20 years he had never seen that. She showed me the bullet, it was a HP dark looking(probably because of corrosion) maybe a Winchester design.
I retired my West German Walther PPK/s from carrying after that. Typically carry a 9mm or 40S&W.
Oh yes, gangster was caught and got 20 years in the state prison.
My niece has her act together now, works for AT&T and lives a normal life. Only has a small scar by her nose from the bullet wound. Had braces and surgery. Still says she has headaches when the weather changes but she is good considering.
Even with a 9 or .40 it is all about shot placement.
I am 8 weeks and a day out from being shot in the chest at near contact distance with a 115 gr JHP 9mm. Shot hit me about 3" right and an inch high of my solar plexus. it hit me close to center mass and defected slightly downward. Summary of damage: Broken rib (#7), nicked pericardial sac, collapsed left lung, perforated diaphragm, perforated stomach, perforated liver, perforated intestine. The bullet is at rest near my spine and surgeons left it in as they felt going after it was not worth the risk and further damage. My diaphragm wouldn't drop and my left lung collapsed, so breathing was very difficult, but I was not, and I repeat not incapacitated. In hindsight, the exploratory abdominal surgery (full on laparotomy) is what is taking so long to recover.
I have actually seen some very accurate .380s like mauser hsc's. I think it is owed to the fixed barrel.
That is precisely why I stated most. :D I have seen Sig 238s and Khars that shot very accurately. Also got to shoot an LCP that I was holding groups pretty decent when I did very slow fire. The issue was that with a Glock 26 I could keep the same size group at the same distance as that LCP and put two to three rounds in the same time.
Also, while we are on the topic. The CZ model 83 is supposed to hold groups well. Also, the Beretta 84 is also considered to be very accurate by a friend of mine who at one point did carry one. Of course he has carried damn near everything except for a Desert Eagle and an 8 inch barrel revolver.
Even with a 9 or .40 it is all about shot placement.
Even with a .45acp, it is all about shot placement. Some OISs in the last 5 years:
Officer Keith Borders shooting: Officer scored 6 torso hits on perp with 200gr .45acp+P Gold Dots, but it took a well placed head shot to stop the guy from shooting back.
Officer Tim Gramins shooting: Officer scored 17 total hits on perp with 230gr .45acp HSTs, including 4 torso hits, but it took head shots to stop him as well.
Officer Randy Seitz shooting: Officer scored 7 torso hits on perp with 230gr .45acp Gold Dots through a windshield, but it took another 5 minutes before the perp stopped returning fire and bleed out.
Those three are available for a detailed read on Law Officer. There are a number of 9mm and .40S&W shootings that have similar degrees of failure/success that I have been privy to over the years from Texas DPS, Colorado HP, and Florida HP. Including a high number of failures to stop quickly from .45acps and .40S&Ws. Handguns poke holes......so the size of the hole punch is not as important as how deep it punches.
Tiny Killer Robot
02-20-14, 19:08
I agree completely Symmetry.
I agree completely Symmetry.
Hope you get better soon, Tiny. It's amazing just out damaging a gun shot wound can be to the body once a surgeon finally gets in there and gets to work on you. Thank God it wasn't a rifle wound.
How deep, and where they are.
I've seen firsthand how important shot placement is. Also, an opponent's hands and arms are rarely just at their sides; they're often moving I front of them, holding something. They may also react to being shot, like holding up a hand or turning a shoulder to the gunfire. These are de facto barriers that your rounds have to contend with on their way to target.
Tiny Killer Robot
02-20-14, 20:07
Hope you get better soon, Tiny. It's amazing just out damaging a gun shot wound can be to the body once a surgeon finally gets in there and gets to work on you. Thank God it wasn't a rifle wound.
Thanks my friend. I am about 80% of the way there. I agree about the rifle, that might not have been 'gut it out'able. As surreal as it was getting hit, when I got rolled into the ER, they transferred me to a bed and immediately rolled me into an MRI machine. I remember thinking DAMN! as the doc started running down the damage he could see. I started having trouble focusing and got tunnel vision (apparently my BP was dropping as I was bleeding out) and I remember one of the surgical team getting right over my face and talking and I said "I can't hear you." Next thing I knew, I was waking up in post op with a tube in my side, one down my throat, one in my nose, and IV's in both arms.
It was most definitely an experience.
Even with a .45acp, it is all about shot placement. Some OISs in the last 5 years:
Officer Keith Borders shooting: Officer scored 6 torso hits on perp with 200gr .45acp+P Gold Dots, but it took a well placed head shot to stop the guy from shooting back.
Officer Tim Gramins shooting: Officer scored 17 total hits on perp with 230gr .45acp HSTs, including 4 torso hits, but it took head shots to stop him as well.
Officer Randy Seitz shooting: Officer scored 7 torso hits on perp with 230gr .45acp Gold Dots through a windshield, but it took another 5 minutes before the perp stopped returning fire and bleed out.
Those three are available for a detailed read on Law Officer. There are a number of 9mm and .40S&W shootings that have similar degrees of failure/success that I have been privy to over the years from Texas DPS, Colorado HP, and Florida HP. Including a high number of failures to stop quickly from .45acps and .40S&Ws. Handguns poke holes......so the size of the hole punch is not as important as how deep it punches.
These incidents fit the profile of people in our area who were shot while under the influence of Methamphetamine. A good CNS hit is usually required to put one of these people down.
These incidents fit the profile of people in our area who were shot while under the influence of Methamphetamine. A good CNS hit is usually required to put one of these people down.
Toxicology on all three subjects were clear of any known drugs. Another good one is Officer Peter Soulis' shooting where he dumped an entire magazine of .40S&W 180gr Ranger Talons from his Glock 22 into the COM of his perp. The perp turned around, ran back to his vehicle, and engaged the transmission to drive away. His toxicology only showed small traces of alcohol in his system. Real world stories generally cannot show any performance difference between the standard service calibers. Either you hit something important, or you keep shooting until you do.
When it comes to stopping a determined 2 legged predator, all handguns suck. Calibers like .380, .32, 25, and 22 just suck a LOT more. Have I carried a. 32? Yep - but that was only when the situation forced me to go that route and before I had my snubby.
Doc and others in his arena will often recommend FMJ ammo for carry in a .380. That should tell us something. If I had to carry one, I'd probably consider Defoor's methodology and candy-cane the mags (JHP, FMJ, JHP, FMJ, etc). It's certainly better than nothing, but I'd take my 5 shot 38/357 with 135gr Gold Dots anyday over anything in the pocket calibers.
I am curious though... Anyone have/seen data from real world shootings with the .380 Barnes X bullets? A few companies offer them and that bullet seems to perform exceptionally well in the larger calibers. Being solid copper I wonder if it shows improvement in .380.
RogerinTPA
02-20-14, 20:42
Why carry .380 when it does not have higher capacity than 9mm, and most .380 now have a 9mm variant that is hardly any bigger if that.
I have one .380 an H&K HK4, its .380. with a .22lr barrel and mag as well. Cool gun, nothing I ever carry, and barely shoot.
My Khar PM9 is smaller, more powerful, more comfortable to shoot and more accurate, with the same recoil. It also shoots all of the thousands of rounds of 9mm I have around for my 6 9mm pistols.
But to answer your question directly yes it is inadequate by comparison to other guns of the same dimensions.
Agreed.
The OP is better off with a quality light weight single stack 9. Having said that, I do have a Ruger LCP for a jogging/run to the store/backup gun with every other round being a GDHP and ball ammo.
I am curious though... Anyone have/seen data from real world shootings with the .380 Barnes X bullets? A few companies offer them and that bullet seems to perform exceptionally well in the larger calibers. Being solid copper I wonder if it shows improvement in .380.
The Barnes bullet tends to offer better penetration than its lead counterparts. The funny thing about the solid copper bullets is that you cannot do an apples-to-apples sectional density comparison to lead core bullets. It gets much more complicated as you add the function of specific gravity of copper to the equation. Unfortunately, the testing data I have seen keeps the 80gr Barnes bullet in the same performance levels as all the other loads. There is some gel test data on brass fetcher.
edit: I heard wrong, sorry.
.380 was enough for Trayvon.
.380 was enough for Trayvon.
What?
.380 was enough for Trayvon.
Mr Martin was shot once in the chest with a KelTec 9mm.....not a .380.
Not to shabby...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6WMMr5ANHlw&feature=c4-overview&list=UUAWFWuY7JafjZNE_dG8BshA
The OP has a Shield 9mm I wear OWB. I normally wear cargo style shorts from 50 degrees up 7 days a week. I have a long torso and no butt. I wear instructor belts as they are more adjustable. My pants still slide South due to my upside down light bulb figure. Always had trouble keeping my Sam Browne and all the kit attached from heading down, especially when running.
The Shield is one of the best pistol purchases I have made. The Sig 239 can stay at home and keep the 226 company.
My Bersa Thunder 380 is a very accurate 380. Scored TOP with it every qual I shot it at to carry whenever.
This post and video is/was just something to get people to thinking, the 380 has a place and you and it should know its limitations. I was surprised it penetrated the windshield glass. I have seen lots of bullets hit and skid up into the roof trim.
I don't have experience with them but I have read that the Buffalo Bore .380 100gr➕p ammo is very good. It is a hard cast lead flat nose bullet that is supposed to penetrate as well as a FMJ but also cut a better wound channel due to the flat nose. I can't imagine that load would be much fun to shoot out of my LCP though.
That being said it is still a .380
warpedcamshaft
02-21-14, 08:05
Go listen to some interviews with Claude Werner... he talks a lot about small guns and has done many studies on shootings. There was a good one on ballistic radio that was pretty interesting.
Whenever someone asks a question like: is this enough gun, or is a caliber adequate... It really depends on who you are and what you do from my view.
I work in an environment where I would lose my job if I had a handgun spotted on my person... I would not be breaking the law, but I have worked hard to get a good career and make a good salary. I also have to move equipment and work in plain view of others frequently, and have had my shirt ride up multiple times lifting things that I can't put down. I plan to work for the company I am with for 30 or 40 years, and having a gun spotted on my person would be a very bad career move.
There are also different consequences for being "made" as carrying a concealed firearm for people with different careers. (Think off duty law enforcement vs average Joe)
For this reason, I may theoretically choose pocket carry at work with a CM9/S&W 442... When I'm off work, I'll carry a bigger gun... but I have to make sacrifices while I'm in the workplace.
You can ask 10 different people and get 10 different answers... and ultimately, you have to weigh the options and make a decision.
If a .380 is all you have, it'll get you out of trouble. You have to do your part though. Personally, there are so many good sub compact 9mm's out there, I'd just go with one of those instead.
Shooting through an intermediate barrier, such as a car door, with a .380 Auto cartridge is not a realstic test. The .380 Auto is not a U.S. LEO service pistol cartridge, because the round, as loaded in the U.S., was not designed to perform this way.
For engaging a threat without firing through an intermediate barrier, the .380 Auto may be adequate. I destroyed several injured animals with the .380 Auto over the years and the recovered projectiles from my current defensive ammunition all expanded. Penetration in deer was between 8" and 12". On one occassion I shot a really large raccoon running away from me and measured 12" of penetration with great bullet expansion.
For another perspective on penetration in gelatin, read the data on this link: http://firearmstactical.com/ammo_data/380acp.htm .
I believe barrel length weighs heavily on terminal ballistic performance when shooting defensive calibers out of small revolvers and autos. In a confrontation in the open without cover, I believe the .380 Auto is adequate with the right handgun/ammunition combination. Of course as with any other caliber shot placement is the most important factor.
Mr Martin was shot once in the chest with a KelTec 9mm.....not a .380.
Oops, I listened to the wrong news report (had heard it was a .380)
Just a general observation - what the hell is with the choosing of the minimal gun for the run to the store? I mean you see that everywhere. When dost one need a full size more in the day to day of plain jane folk?
btw I think any gun is good gun. .22, .380 whatever. For me it's a G26/G19 but I've been goodly scared with a 5 shot snub once. There won't be a second.
BoringGuy45
02-23-14, 00:19
Given the size of gun that a .380 usually comes in and the lack of terminal ballistics, I see it as a round to use in a secondary or even 3rd option back up, or as a gun to throw in your pocket when you go out for a run. It's not really a "gun fighter" round, as much as it's a deterrent against the crackhead with a knife who is trying to mug you on your way through the parking lot after a late night at the office.
johnnywitt
03-12-14, 12:19
Maybe going to get some disagreement here, but I would just use a hotter Euro Spec .32acp Ball round like S&B, or GECO in a Kel Tec if I just HAD TO CARRY a super tiny pistol. Recoil and follow up shots are like a big .22 and the penetration is good as well. The Europeans had the original hot loaded .32acp pretty well dialed in IMO.
Otherwise, why not just get a 9mm Kahr, or a damn PPS.
I just don't get the whole .380/9mm Short thing with the advent of the newer super compact 9mm's, I guess.:confused:
Just hope he bleeds out during the fist fight you are about to have.:smile:
FloridaWoodsman
03-12-14, 15:05
...
I just don't get the whole .380/9mm Short thing with the advent of the newer super compact 9mm's, I guess.:confused:
That argument can be stretched out indefinitely. How about the new lightweight .45's? Just be glad the choices are out there.
Not a fan of the .380 in the new mini glock it may be ok but I would rather shoot +p 9mm out of one of the modern sub compacts than .380 out of one of the fixed barrel euro .380's.
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johnnywitt
03-12-14, 16:02
That argument can be stretched out indefinitely. How about the new lightweight .45's? Just be glad the choices are out there.
Well, it used to be if you wanted a small pistol you pretty much were stuck with a .32/.380 (not even considering a .25), with the .380 having a lot more recoil and less rounds. But now, you can get a pistol very, very, similar in size and weight to the .380 that is in 9mm. If you also factor in not having to buy more calibers that may cost more, it seems to me a no brainer. To each his own and all.
Even a sub compact .45 is going to have some mass and some bad ass recoil characteristics with no appreciable gain over a 9mm really.
Just to be clear, I'm not advocating a .32/.380, but if I need to carry a REALLY small pistol, I will pick a .32 with hot FMJ over the .380 because for me its much easier to shoot fast and hit with and the pistol is smaller and lighter than the equivalent .380, which is why somebody would have to carry one anyway. .32 ammo is kinda under the radar as well compared to .380. Even more so now with the Glock 42 out there. Either .32, or .380 is not all that effective anyway, but the Euro Spec .32 vs a .380 is underestimated in this country IMO. That being said, I carry a S&W 342 Ti most times because if I'm rolling around on the ground and have to shoot one handed its nice to have more than a single shot. YMMV and I'm sure it will.
I carry a Bersa Thunder .380 loaded with BB +P Barnes JHP. Shot placement is easy. It's an accurate gun with little recoil and it's easy to place your rounds where you want them.
Much more important that ammo or caliber though is shot placement. Let alone that oftentimes the mere SIGHT of a gun will send most people scampering off into the night.
Talywhacker
03-28-14, 16:13
No a .380 is not ideal. However it will deter an attacker . Don't let anybody tell you a .380 is inadequate . Like sclark stated above with the right ammo it will serve you well.
SpicyMcHaggis
03-28-14, 16:25
I carry a Ruger LCP back up to my .40. It's small and light and easy to conceal and pack around in a coat pocket in winter. It rides in my sun visor during warm weather. Aint much fun to shoot though...9 oz empty with a nasty trigger slap.
I like have two lcps with a total of 2200 rds through both. So far there have been no malfunctions I clean and lube after each outing. Installing Wolff 13 lb recoil springs reduced felt recoil and kept the slide fully forward and in battery 100% of the time. Mine have no trigger slap. Buffalo Bore 380 +p with the 100 gr lead flat point is accurate. But the package is still 380, and I see it as a last ditch effort requiring precise placement.
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