View Full Version : Which .556 to buy in bulk??
michael.mohr.92317
02-20-14, 08:03
There are so many different brands to choose from not sure what has the good ratings and what doesn't. Have a Daniels defense with a 1/7 twist I prefer to buy a 62 grain bullet... So many to choose from, XM193 , M855
PMC XTAC... Any ideas or input on the differences would be great. I'm looking to get about 2000 rounds
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cheeseburger1976
02-20-14, 08:09
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There are so many different brands to choose from not sure what has the good ratings and what doesn't. Have a Daniels defense with a 1/7 twist I prefer to buy a 62 grain bullet... So many to choose from, XM193 , M855
PMC XTAC... Any ideas or input on the differences would be great. I'm looking to get about 2000 rounds
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In all the years I have been shooting, the Magtech/CBC 5.56 ammo is the best BULK ammo I have encountered. It is FIRST quality 5.56 (not factory seconds made from rejected .mil brass).
Their 62gr is my favorite as it does NOT have the steel core (making it more accurate and allowing you to shoot steel targets without damaging it).
http://www.gandrtactical.com/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?preadd=action&key=CBC556B
C4
If you are looking to stock up on just one type of ammo I'd go with the M193 loading.
Although not miserably inaccurate, I've found M855 to be lacking in the accuracy department compared to M193 out of a number of rifles.
M193 is also more available and cheaper than M855.
PMC is not bad ammo. It's just weaker than M193. Your Daniel Defense should run it fine if it is a stock carbine gas gun. I'd test it though prior to purchasing 2k of it.
In all the years I have been shooting, the Magtech/CBC 5.56 ammo is the best BULK ammo I have encountered. It is FIRST quality 5.56 (not factory seconds made from rejected .mil brass).
Their 62gr is my favorite as it does NOT have the steel core (making it more accurate and allowing you to shoot steel targets without damaging it).
http://www.gandrtactical.com/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?preadd=action&key=CBC556B
C4
I haven't encountered this before. Interesting.
I know it is out of a 20" barrel but 3,166 fps is pretty strong.
How accurate is it?
I haven't encountered this before. Interesting.
I know it is out of a 20" barrel but 3,166 fps is pretty strong.
How accurate is it?
I don't own a 20" barrel so I cannot comment. I have shot sub 1MOA groups with it before.
C4
cheeseburger1976
02-20-14, 08:41
In all the years I have been shooting, the Magtech/CBC 5.56 ammo is the best BULK ammo I have encountered. It is FIRST quality 5.56 (not factory seconds made from rejected .mil brass).
Their 62gr is my favorite as it does NOT have the steel core (making it more accurate and allowing you to shoot steel targets without damaging it).
http://www.gandrtactical.com/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?preadd=action&key=CBC556B
C4
Thanks
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Particular brands/weights can be hard to find and overpriced in today's market. My approach to buying range ammo is to buy the least expensive (brass, not steel) that I can find. Recently, I've used Wolf Gold, PMC, Federal, and Armscor (each at about 0.35/round) and all were okay for blasting at the range.
I would go for the X-TAC. It's a really nicely made round. Don't confused it with PMC Bronze. X-TAC is much faster than Bronze.
For what it's worth, Steel Core does not damage steel targets and is perfectly safe to shoot on steel.... or should I say as safe as shooting any other standard bullet.
gunrunner505
02-20-14, 11:19
I've had good luck with PMC out of my DD M4V7. 855 and 193, runs just fine and it's accurate.
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In all the years I have been shooting, the Magtech/CBC 5.56 ammo is the best BULK ammo I have encountered. It is FIRST quality 5.56 (not factory seconds made from rejected .mil brass).
Their 62gr is my favorite as it does NOT have the steel core (making it more accurate and allowing you to shoot steel targets without damaging it).
http://www.gandrtactical.com/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?preadd=action&key=CBC556B
C4
This.
I was sold on this round while shooting 600 yards at a steel silhouette: it was consistent, and the most accurate out of all my other loadings.
cheeseburger1976
02-20-14, 11:53
Cool
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This.
I was sold on this round while shooting 600 yards at a steel silhouette: it was consistent, and the most accurate out of all my other loadings.
If you're shooting that far, switch to Sierra Matchkings. ;)
cheeseburger1976
02-20-14, 18:27
What is the difference on ammo that starts with an X? Xm193 vs M193
Or M855 vs XM855
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I'd put IMI M193 or CBC/Magtech 62 gr first. For cheap blaster ammo, Wolf Gold.
I don't think you can go wrong with the PMC XTAC.
Just buy whatever is cheapest.
[QUOTE=michael.mohr.92317;1860081]There are so many different brands to choose from not sure what has the good ratings and what doesn't. Have a Daniels defense with a 1/7 twist I prefer to buy a 62 grain bullet... So many to choose from, XM193 , M855
PMC XTAC... Any ideas or input on the differences would be great. I'm looking to get about 2000 rounds
My favorite bulk ammo is the Magtech/CBC 5.56 referenced above by Grant. Although I haven't done anything other than ad hoc comparison accuracy testing, my "impression" is that my 6920, BCM BHF 16" mid and 14.5 mid length Noveske are slightly more accurate with the M193 than the M855. Both flavors are more accurate in my hands than ADI, Lithuanian and even IMI. This is only out to the 100 yard paper target limit of my local range. That being said, I also seem to be far more successful hitting steel silhouettes (same range) out to 300 yards with with an H-1 or Vortex PST 1-4 mounted than I am with any other bulk ammo.
I don't think it is possible to do better bulk-wise and Grant has had very competitive prices given the limited availability of Magtech/CBC elsewhere (last time I looked about a month ago). Cost/accuracy ratio is reasonable for me given the times we live in.
kiwi57
One thing I will say is to diversify your ammo. By this, I mean don't just buy xxx brand and xxxxx lot numbers. This way in the event of a recall your not stuck trying to exchange thousands of rounds of ammo. I used the Magtech ammo, IMI and the Federal M193 loadings and they have all been solid performers. I wish that there was more of the IMI stuff available.
What is the difference on ammo that starts with an X? Xm193 vs M193
Or M855 vs XM855
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It seems to be ATK's way of distinguishing their ammo from ammo that actually and up-front meets the milspec (M193, M855). No manufacturer that I'm aware of claims to actually meet the milspec. Do all these M193 clones come close? Probably.
What is the difference on ammo that starts with an X? Xm193 vs M193
Or M855 vs XM855
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my understanding is X is their bulk packed ammo and not first quality. I have received some with dented cases and significant tarnish. I found a few out of every case that wouldn't cycle in my gun...
my understanding is X is their bulk packed ammo and not first quality. I have received some with dented cases and significant tarnish. I found a few out of every case that wouldn't cycle in my gun...
The Govt pays for brass from lake city whether it meets specs or not (tax payer dollars at work). When brass does not pass for the .Mil contract, it is sold or used on the commercial side. Typically, the brass just has discoloration or a dent in it. In some instances though, the vent hole between the primer and the powder is out of spec (too big). This results in a KABOOM! Most every AR I have ever seen blown up was from an "X" load (XM193, XM855). The round that cooked off in my AR during a class and nearly blew off my foot was an XM855 load.
This is why we no longer shoot X load's and also do not stock this ammo any more.
C4
The Govt pays for brass from lake city whether it meets specs or not (tax payer dollars at work). When brass does not pass for the .Mil contract, it is sold or used on the commercial side. Typically, the brass just has discoloration or a dent in it. In some instances though, the vent hole between the primer and the powder is out of spec (too big). This results in a KABOOM! Most every AR I have ever seen blown up was from an "X" load (XM193, XM855). The round that cooked off in my AR during a class and nearly blew off my foot was an XM855 load.
This is why we no longer shoot X load's and also do not stock this ammo any more.
C4
Holy crap I did not know this. I have shot a bunch of XM193 and thought it was good ammo. Now I know to look for M193 instead.
Holy crap I did not know this. I have shot a bunch of XM193 and thought it was good ammo. Now I know to look for M193 instead.
Slow down, Buddy. You should look at this in the Grand Scheme.....
No one knows exactly why any given lot of XM ammo is wearing the designation on the box. I don't care what they say.
XM193 has been produced in the BILLIONS since 2000. There is NO WAY that much bad brass has been produced. It'd be one of the worst manufacturing blunders in American History.
Military specs on the items produced for them have all kinds of whacky requirements..... Batches of brass can be bounced for any number of silly reasons. I'd guess that some may not have enough primer sealant or neck sealant at worst. Most likely this is simply overun NATO brass put into production.
Lastly... I've probably pulled apart more XM193 ammo here than anyone. Nothing I've found would be bad enough to even raise an eyebrow. I'm not capable of conducting an element analysis of the brass, but I'm willing to throw caution to the wind and roll forward without that info.
Finally.... M193 is a crude, nasty, ball ammo that MIGHT shoot 2 MOA on a good day. Lusting for "GOOD" M193 is nonsense. If you're stressing over ammo quality, you shouldn't be buying M193 in the first place. And for what it's worth, I'll take XM193 over some foreign crap ANY day of the week.
The Govt pays for brass from lake city whether it meets specs or not (tax payer dollars at work). When brass does not pass for the .Mil contract, it is sold or used on the commercial side. Typically, the brass just has discoloration or a dent in it. In some instances though, the vent hole between the primer and the powder is out of spec (too big). This results in a KABOOM! Most every AR I have ever seen blown up was from an "X" load (XM193, XM855). The round that cooked off in my AR during a class and nearly blew off my foot was an XM855 load.
This is why we no longer shoot X load's and also do not stock this ammo any more.
C4
This is good know.
This is good know.
No. There is NO WAY Federal/ATK is going to release a know dangerous product to the public. It's a liabilty NIGHTMARE.
Now is is conceivable that a piece of brass could have a large flash hole? Sure. No more risk for Lake City than any other ammo manufacturer.
In my opinion XM193 is loaded too hot. I don't shoot it for classes. And I no longer stash it because I've converted to all heavies.... 75-77 grain.
Well there is some different opinions out there I guess. Heck what am I saying. I'll shoot whatever I can get anyway at the moment.
No. There is NO WAY Federal/ATK is going to release a know dangerous product to the public. It's a liabilty NIGHTMARE.
Now is is conceivable that a piece of brass could have a large flash hole? Sure. No more risk for Lake City than any other ammo manufacturer.
In my opinion XM193 is loaded too hot. I don't shoot it for classes. And I no longer stash it because I've converted to all heavies.... 75-77 grain.
This is actually incorrect from what I know. It is a calculated risk that the out of spec brass round will blow up a gun and they will have to buy them a new AR. It is far cheaper to do this than to throw away thousands and thousands of brass a year.
In the old days, the Govt paid for a rifle (no matter if it was in spec or not). The guns that did not pass inspection were typically sold to foreign militaries.
Another example of the above where the manufacturer looks the other way and just covers the cost of a malfunctioning gun is Remington and their 700's. Remington has always known that this gun could fire without pulling the trigger, but since it doesn't happen all that often, they accepted the risk.
http://www.outdoorlife.com/forums/guns/rifles/centerfire/remington-model-700-triggermisfire-issues & http://www.cnbc.com/id/39554936
So it is somewhat naive to think that companies won't let out products that will either malfunction or blow up for sake of the all mighty dollar.
C4
Is the CBC stuff reloadable? Are the primers crimped into place?
Is the CBC stuff reloadable? Are the primers crimped into place?
Yes. Annealed casing, sealed primer, etc.
C4
Doc Safari
02-21-14, 17:27
Wasn't there a controversy a couple of years ago about XM193 having a lot of blown primers in a couple of batches or something?
I seem to remember that's why I quit buying the stuff.
I've got two steel ammo cans of XM193 on stripper clips with Federal's label on the outside and I won't get more.
The thing I debate in my mind is whether to take a chance and shoot the stuff in my "everyday" rifle, or save it for barter when the world starts coming to an end. :D
Not to hijack but on the XM debate don't think the suppliers don't have bean counters deciding the risk vs the profit where
your safety is concerned. This is not just with ammo but all big business.
Not to hijack but on the XM debate don't think the suppliers don't have bean counters deciding the risk vs the profit where
your safety is concerned. This is not just with ammo but all big business.
Bingo.....
Plumber237
02-21-14, 21:48
The Govt pays for brass from lake city whether it meets specs or not (tax payer dollars at work). When brass does not pass for the .Mil contract, it is sold or used on the commercial side. Typically, the brass just has discoloration or a dent in it. In some instances though, the vent hole between the primer and the powder is out of spec (too big). This results in a KABOOM! Most every AR I have ever seen blown up was from an "X" load (XM193, XM855). The round that cooked off in my AR during a class and nearly blew off my foot was an XM855 load.
This is why we no longer shoot X load's and also do not stock this ammo any more.
C4
Grant, is this the case with the PMC X-TAC ammo? I know most of what I have on hand says XP193, but since PMC is a foreign company is that still rejected brass?
Grant, is this the case with the PMC X-TAC ammo? I know most of what I have on hand says XP193, but since PMC is a foreign company is that still rejected brass?
The XM193 ammo being discussed here is by Federal and the brass has the LC (Lake City) head stamp.
I can see how ammo that is produced by the hundreds of millions could result in a few bad rounds of ammo being unintentionally released. Stands to reason for anything being mass produced on that scale.
Even if you were talking a hundredth of a percent getting through out of say half a billion rounds, that's 50,000 rds of bad ammo. Recalls happen with all the big ammo manufacturers and are most likely discovered / reported by the end user unfortunately.
I've shot a lot of XM193 ammo and have never had a problem of any kind. Not going to worry about it.
Grant, is this the case with the PMC X-TAC ammo? I know most of what I have on hand says XP193, but since PMC is a foreign company is that still rejected brass?
I really cannot say as I don't know much about that ammo.
C4
The below from Thegunzone, was a conversation with ATK representative Jason Nash, Group Lead, Communications - ATK Ammunition and Related Products Group.
What does ATK's "XM" prefix and "PD" suffix actually mean?
TGZ: Please explain the nomenclature (i.e., the "XM" prefix and the "PD" suffix), and also explain how XM193, XM855-PD, XM118LR-PD and similar Lake City / ATK ammunition differs from milspec (i.e., M193, M855, M118LR) ammunition, so we may present the correct information to our readers.
ATK: We've had several questions regarding the XM designation and following is our official statement regarding what the product is.
XM193 ammunition is 5.56mm contract overrun material. It may not meet all of the mil-spec requirements, however, it does meet all requirements of commercial ammunition for pressure, form, fit and function.
Classic double talk out of a company lawyer. So it is contract overrun. When did "Contract Overrun" equate to "May not meet the mil-spec reqs." If it is contract overrun, then it SHOULD be the same quality as the ammo used in the contract.
The argument that ATK has always tried to push is that "X" = contract overrun. What they don't want to say (or never admit to) is that the ammo ALSO does not meet .Mil reqs. So to me, that means that it is rejected ammo.
C4
Classic double talk out of a company lawyer. So it is contract overrun. When did "Contract Overrun" equate to "May not meet the mil-spec reqs." If it is contract overrun, then it SHOULD be the same quality as the ammo used in the contract.
The argument that ATK has always tried to push is that "X" = contract overrun. What they don't want to say (or never admit to) is that the ammo ALSO does not meet .Mil reqs. So to me, that means that it is rejected ammo.
C4
I agree but, that shouldn't equate to too dangerous to shoot.
Chances may be more likely of getting a bad lot from "rejected" ammo but, still a one in a million chance.
I agree but, that shouldn't equate to too dangerous to shoot.
Chances may be more likely of getting a bad lot from "rejected" ammo but, still a one in a million chance.
If you would have had the recent convo I had concerning rejected brass, you would probably change your mind (or nearly shot your own foot from a weak primer that cooked off).
I really don't care what ammo people use, just be aware of what is really going on. For me, I only shoot FIRST QUALITY ammo (not contract overruns that fail .mil inspections).
Edited to add, that buying XM193 or XM855 is NOT a good deal compared to first quality ammo. The best deal I could currently find is 1k of XM193 for $380. 62gr 5.56 from Magtech is $390. So why bother with it??
C4
If you are wanting to find the most accurate M193,buy several different brands and find what shoots best in your weapon.
Each weapon is like a fingerprint and will shoot or prefer different ammo.
Quality aspect IMI is the best in my opinion,the mag tech/CBC falls in a close second with regards to mil spec ammo.
The mag tech/CBC would give the best value for your dollar if you are searching for accuracy and not "blasting" ammo.
Hey C4Igrant does the 62 grain have neck sealant?
If you would have had the recent convo I had concerning rejected brass, you would probably change your mind (or nearly shot your own foot from a weak primer that cooked off).
I really don't care what ammo people use, just be aware of what is really going on. For me, I only shoot FIRST QUALITY ammo (not contract overruns that fail .mil inspections).
Edited to add, that buying XM193 or XM855 is NOT a good deal compared to first quality ammo. The best deal I could currently find is 1k of XM193 for $380. 62gr 5.56 from Magtech is $390. So why bother with it??
C4
I don't disagree Grant. Buying M193 or any other military ammo that has passed inspection is a much safer route.
I fail to believe though that out of the billions of rounds of 5.56, 7.62, 9mm, etc that do pass inspection, a small percentage of it could be defective in some way.
Just because it passed inspection doesn't mean a bad lot doesn't get through.
I just spent my stash money with you on a BCM lower and I really don't have an urgent need for ammo at the moment. If I did I'd pickup some of your 62gr ammo and give it a run.
Wish you offered it by the 20rd box. I'd pick up a few to evaluate.
Hey C4Igrant does the 62 grain have neck sealant?
Will check.
C4
I don't disagree Grant. Buying M193 or any other military ammo that has passed inspection is a much safer route.
I fail to believe though that out of the billions of rounds of 5.56, 7.62, 9mm, etc that do pass inspection, a small percentage of it could be defective in some way.
Just because it passed inspection doesn't mean a bad lot doesn't get through.
I just spent my stash money with you on a BCM lower and I really don't have an urgent need for ammo at the moment. If I did I'd pickup some of your 62gr ammo and give it a run.
Wish you offered it by the 20rd box. I'd pick up a few to evaluate.
I have no problem with a company letting a lemon out now and again (and blowing up a gun). The difference is that they KNOW that there is a problem and accept it. Calculated risk and they have had their attorneys evaluate this knowledge and deemed that it is acceptable to blow up a few AR's a year VS pulling all that brass that failed .mil inspection. Bottom line profit is everything.
The Magtech ammo comes in 50rd boxes and will probably offer it that way soon.
C4
The Magtech ammo comes in 50rd boxes and will probably offer it that way soon.
C4
If you decide to do that let us know.
I'll pickup a few boxes.
Hey C4Igrant does the 62 grain have neck sealant?
Got an e-mail back from Magtech on their 5.56. It is built to true NATO/MOPI specs. Sealed at the case neck (clear) and primer pocket (black or green). Primers are staked as well.
C4
Grant, do those bullets have cannelures?
I have purchased both the 55 and 62 grain from G&R and each has cannelures--and sealants as described.
Grant, do those bullets have cannelures?
I have no problem with a company letting a lemon out now and again (and blowing up a gun). The difference is that they KNOW that there is a problem and accept it. Calculated risk and they have had their attorneys evaluate this knowledge and deemed that it is acceptable to blow up a few AR's a year VS pulling all that brass that failed .mil inspection. Bottom line profit is everything.
The Magtech ammo comes in 50rd boxes and will probably offer it that way soon.
C4
Yeah please let us know. I'd probably buy 500 if I could just do that. Unless it comes back on sale at my local PX first. I had to make three trips over three days but I got 600 rounds for $0.23 per round a few weeks ago.
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If you're shooting that far, switch to Sierra Matchkings. ;)
I would not do that round justice.
Makes a lot of sense; recalls do happen. Seems like a reasonable approach to "lot diversification" among the same preferred manufacturer(s).
Also, 55/62 IMI is listed 'in stock' right now at Wideners for .42-.46/round before shipping.
One thing I will say is to diversify your ammo. By this, I mean don't just buy xxx brand and xxxxx lot numbers. This way in the event of a recall your not stuck trying to exchange thousands of rounds of ammo. I used the Magtech ammo, IMI and the Federal M193 loadings and they have all been solid performers. I wish that there was more of the IMI stuff available.
Yeah please let us know. I'd probably buy 500 if I could just do that. Unless it comes back on sale at my local PX first. I had to make three trips over three days but I got 600 rounds for $0.23 per round a few weeks ago.
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Wake, were they limiting you on a single purchase? I'm I reading that right?
I'd of bought a few thousand for that kind of money.
Wake, were they limiting you on a single purchase? I'm I reading that right?
I'd of bought a few thousand for that kind of money.
I could only buy 200 every day. Unfortunately I had to leave for the week and when I came back that Friday, they were all sold out.
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I could only buy 200 every day.
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I thought so. I would have made three trips myself for that price.
I thought so. I would have made three trips myself for that price.
Apparently they had the stuff in stock for months at double that price and none of it moved, so they decided to put it on sale. My mind was blown when I saw the price. I was told when they first did it they didn't have a limit so some guys got a lot. They also had Independence 193 for $.027 a round, I was able to get 100 of that too. If only my wife had her dependent ID at that point...
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I do a lot of reloading, but mostly I shoot PMC when I buy new ammo. It seems to be more available around here. I've also shot some Privi Partizan and it's been reliable but seems to be a little weak. But the cases are nice to reload.
thebarracuda
02-23-14, 18:07
I've shot a couple thousand rounds of PMC X-Tac in both the 55gr 193, and 62gr 855 flavors. Have not had any problems with either round. Accuracy is quite good for mass produced bulk ammo. My BCM prefers the 62gr for groups off a bench, but the preference is slight. If I'm shooting for groups, I'll shoot reloads and use an optic that can make use of the better ammo. If I'm using my BCM or similar RDS or iron sighted rifle, I use the X-Tac, which makes up about 90% of my shooting these days. I like it because I can find it a decent price, the brass looks great and is nice and consistent for reloading. I have never bought PMC Bronze.
I'm really liking the idea of buying some of what C4 has. I enjoy this site so its always a good move to support a sponsor.
I saw that. Unfortunately some asshole in CA won the Powerball and it wasn't me. But, yeah it's good ammo as is the Magtech which I have purchased from Grant in the past.
Makes a lot of sense; recalls do happen. Seems like a reasonable approach to "lot diversification" among the same preferred manufacturer(s).
Also, 55/62 IMI is listed 'in stock' right now at Wideners for .42-.46/round before shipping.
Particular brands/weights can be hard to find and overpriced in today's market. My approach to buying range ammo is to buy the least expensive (brass, not steel) that I can find. Recently, I've used Wolf Gold, PMC, Federal, and Armscor (each at about 0.35/round) and all were okay for blasting at the range.
This is my approach. I have probably 7 different manufacturers represented: Wolf (steel), PMC (regular and Xtac), IMI, Federal, a few Hornaday and Magtech boxes, Sellier and Bellot (however you write that company). I think that's it, but the Hornaday, Magtech and S&B are probably less than 200 rounds each.
Grant, do those bullets have cannelures?
Yes.
C4
I've shot a couple thousand rounds of PMC X-Tac in both the 55gr 193, and 62gr 855 flavors. Have not had any problems with either round. Accuracy is quite good for mass produced bulk ammo. My BCM prefers the 62gr for groups off a bench, but the preference is slight. If I'm shooting for groups, I'll shoot reloads and use an optic that can make use of the better ammo. If I'm using my BCM or similar RDS or iron sighted rifle, I use the X-Tac, which makes up about 90% of my shooting these days. I like it because I can find it a decent price, the brass looks great and is nice and consistent for reloading. I have never bought PMC Bronze.
I'm really liking the idea of buying some of what C4 has. I enjoy this site so its always a good move to support a sponsor.
We appreciate that.
C4
Gahunter12
02-26-14, 20:44
In all the years I have been shooting, the Magtech/CBC 5.56 ammo is the best BULK ammo I have encountered. It is FIRST quality 5.56 (not factory seconds made from rejected .mil brass).
Their 62gr is my favorite as it does NOT have the steel core (making it more accurate and allowing you to shoot steel targets without damaging it).
http://www.gandrtactical.com/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?preadd=action&key=CBC556B
C4
I will second this. I picked up 500 rounds of CBC last year while looking for bullets for reloading, and was impressed with the results for factory ammo. I also like the CBC brass for reloading.
I will second this. I picked up 500 rounds of CBC last year while looking for bullets for reloading, and was impressed with the results for factory ammo. I also like the CBC brass for reloading.
Glad to hear it. My guess is that by late 2014, CBC will be extremely popular with knowledgeable shooters.
C4
The Ground Truth
02-27-14, 09:53
This is fantastic info, I had no idea that there was a difference in the round. Thanks
The Govt pays for brass from lake city whether it meets specs or not (tax payer dollars at work). When brass does not pass for the .Mil contract, it is sold or used on the commercial side. Typically, the brass just has discoloration or a dent in it. In some instances though, the vent hole between the primer and the powder is out of spec (too big). This results in a KABOOM! Most every AR I have ever seen blown up was from an "X" load (XM193, XM855). The round that cooked off in my AR during a class and nearly blew off my foot was an XM855 load.
This is why we no longer shoot X load's and also do not stock this ammo any more.
C4
Glad to hear it. My guess is that by late 2014, CBC will be extremely popular with knowledgeable shooters.
C4
Do we have to buy it 1000Rds at a time? your site says 1000rds
I buy any commercially loaded brass cased 5.56 that is the best price at the time I need it. I've never noticed any problems or differences with any of it.
If I want to turn my AR into some sort of precision rifle, I'll buy higher quality.
Otherwise, for range use and training class use, it doesn't make any difference, in my opinion.
Use Slick Guns, AmmoSeek, Gunbot, to grab the best deal you can.
Do we have to buy it 1000Rds at a time? your site says 1000rds
Currently, yes.
C4
Check out Wolf Gold, good brass cased ammo reasonably priced. Check SlickGuns for best pricing
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I acquired some of this>"Federal 5.56mm 62gr T556TNB1"< about a year or two ago, i can't find it any place now.
Does anyone know if it's still made or available?
I acquired some of this>"Federal 5.56mm 62gr T556TNB1"< about a year or two ago, i can't find it any place now.
Does anyone know if it's still made or available?
It seems that this ammo comes and goes.
Frank Mucus
02-28-14, 19:57
Saw that it was mentioned Wideners has the IMI M193 in stock as well. I'm curious as to which is a better quality between what Grant is selling vs Wideners since at Grant's I can't purchase a small amount to test first. Any input would help. Same with the 9mm Luger offerings as well.
Can't comment on the 9mm Magtech/CBC; haven't purchased any as yet. The IMI is great ammo IMO, but I seem to do slightly better accuracy-wise with the Magtech/CBC. QC seems excellent and it meets my intended purpose. Best of all, you'll save a small chunk of change if you go with G&R's Magtech/CBC over the IMI through Wideners. Grant has been frank about what he thinks of the Magtech/CBC and that carried weight with me. No regrets.
Saw that it was mentioned Wideners has the IMI M193 in stock as well. I'm curious as to which is a better quality between what Grant is selling vs Wideners since at Grant's I can't purchase a small amount to test first. Any input would help. Same with the 9mm Luger offerings as well.
I like the IMI and I will wait till the price hopefully drops. PMC 5.56 is a good choice as well.
So is the CBC/Magtech stuff used by the Brazilian army as actual service ammo, or just for training and so forth? If they are using it in the field, was there any particular reason they did not want it to be steel cored like M855?
So is the CBC/Magtech stuff used by the Brazilian army as actual service ammo, or just for training and so forth? If they are using it in the field, was there any particular reason they did not want it to be steel cored like M855?
I don't really know much about what the Brazilian Army uses for ammo. CBC has contracts for various militaries throughout central and south america.
It is one of the few (if not the only) 62gr FMJ available. I much prefer this grain weight in my 1/7 to 55gr ammo as I tend to get better accuracy with it at distance.
C4
have you or anybody else tested it in gel? I'm curious if it has shown indications that it would exhibit terminal ballistics in tissue at least on par with M193 or M855.
The Ground Truth
03-01-14, 21:25
Hopefully Grant will jump in on this. I found this through ammobot which linked me to a site I do not care for. They are showing the CBC having a steel penetrator and labeled as "XM855". Should we staying away from this type of CBC then or is it mislabeled? I thought it was the same stuff as what is for sale on G&R but the description reads very differently. Just need some clarification.
Manufacturer: Magtech CBC556B
Item: 2-MTCBC556B
UPC: 754908201617
"CBC XM855 5.56x45mm NATO ammunition is loaded to Military specification at the CBC Brazilian facility. This particular load uses the SS109 bullet which is a 62 grain full metal jacket bullet with a steel penetrator. The finished rounds consist of sealed primers which is ideal for long term storage and moisture protection.
SS109 62 Grain full metal jacket steel penetrator bullet
Muzzle velocity: 2992 fps
Muzzle energy: 1323 ft/lbs
Uses: Personal Protection or Self Defense"
Are you not allowed to post the site?
The Ground Truth
03-01-14, 21:41
Are you not allowed to post the site?
Some sites don't like people posting vendors that aren't sponsored so I didn't put in a link. It's cheaper than dirt.
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Flankenstein
03-01-14, 21:45
^you shouldn't be buying anything from cheaper than dirt regardless...
The Ground Truth
03-01-14, 21:48
^you shouldn't be buying anything from cheaper than dirt regardless...
I wasn't planning on it which is why I stated it was a site that I didn't like. I was just searching for the CBC ammo and the description was different from what I was expecting.
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Thanks Truth, I was searching on GunBot, must not have got that far yet. I hear you guys,i never liked ctd.
Flankenstein
03-01-14, 22:08
I wasn't planning on it which is why I stated it was a site that I didn't like. I was just searching for the CBC ammo and the description was different from what I was expecting.
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Gotchya
Does the cbc bullet fragment?
Hopefully Grant will jump in on this. I found this through ammobot which linked me to a site I do not care for. They are showing the CBC having a steel penetrator and labeled as "XM855". Should we staying away from this type of CBC then or is it mislabeled? I thought it was the same stuff as what is for sale on G&R but the description reads very differently. Just need some clarification.
Manufacturer: Magtech CBC556B
Item: 2-MTCBC556B
UPC: 754908201617
"CBC XM855 5.56x45mm NATO ammunition is loaded to Military specification at the CBC Brazilian facility. This particular load uses the SS109 bullet which is a 62 grain full metal jacket bullet with a steel penetrator. The finished rounds consist of sealed primers which is ideal for long term storage and moisture protection.
SS109 62 Grain full metal jacket steel penetrator bullet
Muzzle velocity: 2992 fps
Muzzle energy: 1323 ft/lbs
Uses: Personal Protection or Self Defense"
When companies see 62gr, they always assume that it has a steel core. This ammo does not have a steel core.
C4
The Ground Truth
03-02-14, 13:56
When companies see 62gr, they always assume that it has a steel core. This ammo does not have a steel core.
C4
Do you have any plans to sell 500 rounds at a time?
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Do you have any plans to sell 500 rounds at a time?
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We just added it as an option!
http://www.gandrtactical.com/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?preadd=action&key=CBC556BH
C4
The Ground Truth
03-02-14, 14:11
We just added it as an option!
http://www.gandrtactical.com/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?preadd=action&key=CBC556BH
C4
Fantastic, I'll be placing an order this week.
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We just added it as an option!
http://www.gandrtactical.com/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?preadd=action&key=CBC556BH
C4
Awesome - order placed.
I don't envy you having to break up the 1,000 round cases to repackage these to meet customer requests. Those cases are packed in tighter than a tick.
We just added it as an option!
http://www.gandrtactical.com/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?preadd=action&key=CBC556BH
C4
I don't envy you having to break up the 1,000 round cases to repackage these to meet customer requests. Those cases are packed in tighter than a tick.
Ya, I am not looking forward to this.
C4
One thing I will say is to diversify your ammo. By this, I mean don't just buy xxx brand and xxxxx lot numbers. This way in the event of a recall your not stuck trying to exchange thousands of rounds of ammo. I used the Magtech ammo, IMI and the Federal M193 loadings and they have all been solid performers. I wish that there was more of the IMI stuff available.
Wally World in my town has Federal XM193 and XM155 in 420 round Ammo box for about .39 cents each. Been this price a few months thus an Ammo can a week I usually pick up. No shipping just pay and walk out. I have not found ammoseeking.com beating the price when ya add shipping.
I'm going thru some inventories:
http://i.imgur.com/Bpk5fl.jpg
I'm still reading more about this here and my initial impressions that they are NOT the home defense ammo I should be using. I don't own or plan getting a handgun nor shotgun. I'm still shooting the BCM middy I got from Grant. I'm constantly reading post here to find that ideal .223/5.56 for HD.
Must continue reading into this and truly appreciate everyone's contribution
WickedWillis
03-18-14, 17:40
We just added it as an option!
http://www.gandrtactical.com/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?preadd=action&key=CBC556BH
C4
Thanks for doing that Grant, I will be ordering 500 today because I wasn't sure if I'd like it enough to commit to 1000rds if I didn't care for it.
Flankenstein
03-18-14, 17:48
I don't envy you having to break up the 1,000 round cases to repackage these to meet customer requests. Those cases are packed in tighter than a tick.
Ya, I am not looking forward to this.
C4
My 1k case came packed pretty loose. Perhaps it was already broken up?
shaneinhisroom
03-18-14, 18:38
I buy as much of the Independence ammo as I can. It's basically imported IMI. Shoots awesome.
WickedWillis
03-18-14, 18:39
I buy as much of the Independence ammo as I can. It's basically imported IMI. Shoots awesome.
Really? I hadn't heard that at all. It performs well for you though?
shaneinhisroom
03-18-14, 19:01
Yup, no problems whatsoever, plus it's actually not that badly priced. On part with the Magtech.
Are you talking the "Independence" stuff? Comes in blue and white boxes?
My 1k case came packed pretty loose. Perhaps it was already broken up?
The lids on the 1k box is usually glued down tight.
C4
Magtech M193 is now in stock for $370!
http://www.gandrtactical.com/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?preadd=action&key=CBC556A
C4
shaneinhisroom
03-19-14, 10:06
Are you talking the "Independence" stuff? Comes in blue and white boxes?
Yes, that's it.
Flankenstein
03-19-14, 10:53
The lids on the 1k box is usually glued down tight.
C4
Oh. Perhaps it was. The inside of the box wasn't tight. Had a few styrofoam inserts also. Everything GTG- just not packed tight like I was expecting based off the comments in this thread.
For bulk purchases, my first choice is XM855 green tip, then XM193. They are reliable, you know pretty much what you are getting, and the cases get cut & reloaded for my 300 blk. And my neighbor on the north 40 has a fabrication shop & he is always bringing home different pieces of metal plate to play around with the 855.
I'm going thru some inventories:
http://i.imgur.com/Bpk5fl.jpg
I'm still reading more about this here and my initial impressions that they are NOT the home defense ammo I should be using. I don't own or plan getting a handgun nor shotgun. I'm still shooting the BCM middy I got from Grant. I'm constantly reading post here to find that ideal .223/5.56 for HD.
Must continue reading into this and truly appreciate everyone's contribution
For bulk purchases, my first choice is XM855 green tip, then XM193. They are reliable, you know pretty much what you are getting, and the cases get cut & reloaded for my 300 blk. And my neighbor on the north 40 has a fabrication shop & he is always bringing home different pieces of metal plate to play around with the 855.
I've only encounter one indoor range that prohibits XM855. In a way its good, I still have plenty of the green tips. Bad, I cannot convince myself to use these for Home Defense. :(
Again, not a pistol or shotgun-type.
cheeseburger1976
03-20-14, 17:56
Decisions , decisions,, PMX XTAC 1000 rounds delivered for 430 or IMIM855 1200 rounds shipped for 580.... HELP
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ReverendOD
03-20-14, 18:09
Decisions , decisions,, PMX XTAC 1000 rounds delivered for 430 or IMIM855 1200 rounds shipped for 580.... HELP
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I got PMC XTAC M193 for $405 shipped from cheaperthandirt.com
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Flankenstein
03-20-14, 18:14
I got PMC XTAC M193 for $405 shipped from cheaperthandirt.com
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Weak.
I'm trying the Magtech 62 grain,it should be here by Wednesday.
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