View Full Version : Colt is buying LWRC
http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2014/02/20/breaking-news-colt-buying-lwrc-60-million/
Markm is going to freak...
SeriousStudent
02-20-14, 20:26
Don't panic, boys. I think we might be able to talk him down.
Quick - somebody get a case of 175-grain Sierra Match Kings and distract him.
Quick - somebody get a case of 175-grain Sierra Match Kings and distract him.
...or 77's.
How will this affect his & Scottryan's relationship?
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StevieJ309
02-20-14, 20:41
Interesting. There was a post in the Colt forum on TOS back in November about Colt buying LWRC. Didn't think it would actually happen.
http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2014/02/20/breaking-news-colt-buying-lwrc-60-million/
Markm is going to freak...What will really get him riled up is the first "LWRC is owned by Colt, so they must be just as good" argument/thread.
http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2014/02/20/breaking-news-colt-buying-lwrc-60-million/
Markm is going to freak...
He secretly wants one with a keymod...lol
Stay calm markm... Think of the children!!!!
I knew I should have bought one when I had the chance.
Sorry guys, but I don't get it. Is this a good thing or bad thing that is happening?
Magic_Salad0892
02-20-14, 21:04
Sorry guys, but I don't get it. Is this a good thing or bad thing that is happening?
Good for the most part, IMO.
sinlessorrow
02-20-14, 21:09
LWRC announces DI rifles....Colt announces it's buying LWRC....I wonder.
I was surprised when I first heard it a few months ago, but then you couldn't find a 6940P and now we know why.
ElJefeDeJefes
02-20-14, 21:17
LWRC announces DI rifles....Colt announces it's buying LWRC....I wonder.
What a coincidence.....
The article clearly states that (at least) the M6IC will be branded as Colt. One could therefore reasonably assume that LWRC will be no more...
I never saw this one coming.
Markm hasn't posted here yet because he's probably still having convulsions. Someone should go check on him.
Colt just paid $60M for the rights to a candy cane shaped barrel fluting.
sinlessorrow
02-20-14, 21:27
I wonder what this means for their current rifles as well as the M16 and M4.
I'm going to call it now, Adams Arms wins the FRAK competition(just happens to have a revision for a bulky piston conversion) and Colt takes LWRC to make a piston conversion for the M4, you read it here first.....:confused::lol::sarcastic::jester:
jerrysimons
02-20-14, 21:33
All of the idiotic comments lamenting how LWRC is now going to "go
down hill with crappy quality", lol!
I wonder how much this is connected to Colt losing the gov manufacturing contract?
The IC lower does seem to be the best convinced execution of a truly ambidextrous configuration, which is about the only IP worth purchasing, IMO.
TurretGunner
02-20-14, 21:35
Colt becomes the new freedom group and takes a nose dive marketing to lowest common denominator like FG.
They know their GOV contract threshold is coming to an end.
Calling it now.
I am having a hard time seeing how this is going to benefit Colt.
None of LWRC offerings bring anything to the table, that Colt already can't do.
If Colt had been making the guns we wanted the entire time, they wouldn't of had to buy LWRC.
Colts monolith is better than LWRC 3 piece rail upper contraption. LWRCs rail is an antiquated POS. A rail that has a removable top is a completely ass backwards way of gaining access to the operating system. Any type of laser or IR sight will not stay zeroed regardless of LWRCs bullshit 1 MOA claim.
The only thing LWRC makes, that I want, is their compact stock that looks like an old school Colt CAR stock.
LWRC announces DI rifles....Colt announces it's buying LWRC....I wonder.
LWRC just sold the proprietary 6.8 DI bushing receiver sets that use 6.8 Pmags as part of a group buy on 68forums so this is interesting.
**** Colt.... That is all.
Colt just paid $60M for the rights to a candy cane shaped barrel fluting.
And a hammer forged barrel machine.
And a hammer forged barrel machine.
I thought lwrci got their chf barrels from someone else.
sinlessorrow
02-20-14, 22:34
I thought lwrci got their chf barrels from someone else.
Pretty sure they do.
JBecker 72
02-20-14, 22:42
In the words of another member on a completely unrelated forum....
Interesting.
Weird... I keep picturing the Pony with Adam Pini's head.
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Where is LWRC's manufacturing base? That might play into part of this decision making process, if it's in a right to work state, vice Commienecticut.
HardToHandle
02-20-14, 23:31
Where is LWRC's manufacturing base? That might play into part FBof this decision making process, if it's in a right to work state, vice Commienecticut.
Da
According to TFB, you may be on to something. Florida's space coast sounds like a slam dunk.
"The deal is supposed to close on 1 March. The Maryland company may relocate to Florida or Texas and the LWRC M6 Individual Carbine (M6IC) rifle will become a Colt branded product. "
Interesting, wonder what it will do to the values of currently owned or pre-Colt LWRC rifles.
Hmm Colt now has access to LWRCi's Florida manufacturing base and piston experience. Here's hoping Colt packs their gear and bails on CT.
Without digging too deep it would look to me like Colt now has a "high end" (sorry markm) AR builder for both piston and DI guns. Does anyone see this as their play into the Noveske, KAC, etc market by buying up the competition or am I on my own in this thinking? I could also see a Colt branded M6IC being put out there as a new M4 replacement.
StevieJ309
02-21-14, 00:06
Didn't Colt buy property in the Orlando, FL area a couple years ago? Pretty sure they did, but never moved any production there.
http://www.guns.com/2013/08/06/colt-may-move-forward-on-expansion-in-florida/
Yeah, my immediate thought is that if LWRC isn't in great financial shape, Colt can cheaply pick up a bit of IP regarding the LWRC lowers, and start shifting production with minimal impact (and draw minimal attention to moving their production to a more tax friendly environment).
Colt probably has as much if not more piston experience than LWRC. Colt had piston designs going back at least 25 years or so. I also think that Colt has more money and the ability to conduct more R&D if they wanted to.
Don't look for any kind of Colt or other branded M4 replacement anytime soon. It's not going to happen.
Hmm Colt now has access to LWRCi's Florida manufacturing base and piston experience. Here's hoping Colt packs their gear and bails on CT.
Without digging too deep it would look to me like Colt now has a "high end" (sorry markm) AR builder for both piston and DI guns. Does anyone see this as their play into the Noveske, KAC, etc market by buying up the competition or am I on my own in this thinking? I could also see a Colt branded M6IC being put out there as a new M4 replacement.
Magic_Salad0892
02-21-14, 02:41
I am having a hard time seeing how this is going to benefit Colt.
Manufacturing capability is increased?
Where is LWRC's manufacturing base? That might play into part of this decision making process, if it's in a right to work state, vice Commienecticut.
They testified during our gun bill fiasco last year that they would likely leave MD if it passed. May have something to do with their decision.
https://www.facebook.com/lwrci/posts/10151460884334162
http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2014/02/20/breaking-news-colt-buying-lwrc-60-million/
Markm is going to freak...
I sense he will wrath redirect to POF
http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2014/02/20/breaking-news-colt-buying-lwrc-60-million/
Markm is going to freak...
Hey... Maybe they'll fire all the FUKKTARDS and make the company legit. ??? I think they'd even need to blow out the Janitor to give this mess a chance.
They can't make their junk any lower in quality.
Weird... I keep picturing the Pony with Adam Pini's head.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
:laugh:
1slow01Z71
02-21-14, 07:41
Hey... Maybe they'll fire all the FUKKTARDS and make the company legit. ??? I think they'd even need to blow out the Janitor to give this mess a chance.
They can't make their junk any lower in quality.
Maybe I missed it but what is so bad about them? Ive never paid much attention to them as I'm not interested in a piston gun.
And a hammer forged barrel machine.
Colt Canada already has a CHF machine.
ETA: If this gets two gun manufacturers to move out of anti states that they no longer have to pay tax money to a state that will use the money to try and shut them down then it is a win.
Yeah, my immediate thought is that if LWRC isn't in great financial shape, Colt can cheaply pick up a bit of IP regarding the LWRC lowers, and start shifting production with minimal impact (and draw minimal attention to moving their production to a more tax friendly environment).
That may be true but I don't see how that is worth $60M
Originally Posted by TehLlama
Yeah, my immediate thought is that if LWRC isn't in great financial shape, Colt can cheaply pick up a bit of IP regarding the LWRC lowers, and start shifting production with minimal impact (and draw minimal attention to moving their production to a more tax friendly environment).
That may be true but I don't see how that is worth $60M
I agree with scottyran. Definitely not worth $60M for an ambi lower especially since Colt introduced their their own ambi lower for the 5.56 platform at SHOT.
Mike
Maybe I missed it but what is so bad about them? Ive never paid much attention to them as I'm not interested in a piston gun.
They build cheap garbage, Astroturf the forums with fake positive feedback (posing as happy customers), flood the gun rags with bullshit, go on the shooting/Mil channel shows and throw fukking ridiculous lies like "our barrels last twice as long as everyone elses", etc.
They market trash as premium.
They build cheap garbage, Astroturf the forums with fake positive feedback (posing as happy customers), flood the gun rags with bullshit, go on the shooting/Mil channel shows and throw fukking ridiculous lies like "our barrels last twice as long as everyone elses", etc.
They market trash as premium.
Tell us how you really feel. :sarcastic:
Funny, if you read the post beneath this one on the Washington Times POS article dumping on the M4 and ask why Colt would do this, you'd almost have to think that the fix is in for the military to go 6.8 spc in the near future.
Apricotshot
02-21-14, 10:08
Funny, if you read the post beneath this one on the Washington Times POS article dumping on the M4 and ask why Colt would do this, you'd almost have to think that the fix is in for the military to go 6.8 spc in the near future.
HIGHLY doubt 6.8's adoption.
6.8???
Is that retarded shit still even around?
Wow, glad I got my M6IC early last year. Just installed the UCIW stock yesterday and it runs perfectly. Haven't owned any Colt rifles since I had an old SP1 in the 80's. After what they did to gun owners in the late 80's and 90's. I would never support them again. I guess most if you don't remember that! Colt will screw it all up again!
On Monday, the girl at LWRCI that I talked with had no clue. I asked when they were moving! She said, "Hopefully, never. I like my job."
On Monday, the girl at LWRCI that I talked with had no clue. I asked when they were moving! She said, "Hopefully, never. I like my job."
She's probaly employed as a full time Astroturfer. :D
But not surprising that they have employees with NO CLUE.
Magic_Salad0892
02-21-14, 10:42
6.8???
Is that retarded shit still even around?
I liked it when I owned it, but .300BLK makes it obsolete due to parts commonality. TBH, 6.8SPC is very rapidly becoming irrelevant. Except as maybe a hunting round, but even then...
That may be true but I don't see how that is worth $60M
No telling what IP is there that none of us know about. Before deals like this go through, the purchasing company gets to do a deep dive into what they're buying, basically seeing everything, so obviously Colt saw something worth paying $60M for. It could very well be that the book value of LWRC minus IP (ie factory, machinery, land, etc etc) was a significant percentage of the $60M, in essence letting them pay somewhat less than the $60 for the IP....
6.8???
Is that retarded shit still even around?
It makes a great hog gun. An 85gr TSX @ 3000 fps isn't anything to sneeze at. Expensive as hell to shoot though. :p
wetidlerjr
02-21-14, 10:48
They build cheap garbage, Astroturf the forums with fake positive feedback (posing as happy customers), flood the gun rags with bullshit, go on the shooting/Mil channel shows and throw fukking ridiculous lies like "our barrels last twice as long as everyone elses", etc.
They market trash as premium.And since Colt DOESN'T do this then their purchase of LWRC should be a good thing.
St.Michael
02-21-14, 11:18
I like my Noveske. This purchase affects me in no way. I am however enjoying this thread ;)
Heavy Metal
02-21-14, 11:28
I liked it when I owned it, but .300BLK makes it obsolete due to parts commonality. TBH, 6.8SPC is very rapidly becoming irrelevant. Except as maybe a hunting round, but even then...
I don't look at the Blackout and the 6.8 as serving the same niches. The 6.8 is a more powerful round.
HIGHLY doubt 6.8's adoption.
Yeah, agreed. I didn't mean to stir that pot - just pointing out the "conspiracy feel' of the two threads appearing at the same time.
I don't look at the Blackout and the 6.8 as serving the same niches. The 6.8 is a more powerful round.
Agreed. Just like I wouldn't replace my 556 rifles with BLKOUT, BLKOUT isn't going to replace the 6.8SPC. Yes, I have all three. Different niches.
.... Maybe another Windham like story in the future. :confused:
6.8???
Is that retarded shit still even around?
I liked it when I owned it, but .300BLK makes it obsolete due to parts commonality. TBH, 6.8SPC is very rapidly becoming irrelevant. Except as maybe a hunting round, but even then...
Well considering there's a huge loyal hunting and reloading following, Saudi and Jordan just bough a gazillion guns from them and Magpul makes a properly stacking mag to fit the lower... I'd say it's alive and well :)
No way in hell 300 BO is making it irrelevant. Two totally different rounds and markets.
Tell me a 6.8 manufacturer that can even keep up with the demand.
Agreed. Just like I wouldn't replace my 556 rifles with BLKOUT, BLKOUT isn't going to replace the 6.8SPC. Yes, I have all three. Different niches.
Agreed ;)
What's ignorant is saying one round is better than the other at EVERYTHING which is never the case.
People parroting things they've heard without hands on experience is also ignorant :rolleyes:
DreadPirateMoyer
02-21-14, 12:08
They build cheap garbage, Astroturf the forums with fake positive feedback (posing as happy customers), flood the gun rags with bullshit, go on the shooting/Mil channel shows and throw fukking ridiculous lies like "our barrels last twice as long as everyone elses", etc.
They market trash as premium.
Meh, let's at least be objective with our criticisms here. LWRCI doesn't do that stuff. That was done by a previous owner who, once found out by his own co-owners, was ousted from the company for dishonesty and a slew of other things. The rest of the company wasn't doing it, had no clue, and were the first to recognize it as awful/wrong/fraudulent the moment news appeared. Also, their barrels do last longer than most other AR barrels. That's just the nature of the nitride finish.
As for what's so bad about them, to those who asked, they cost twice as much as a Colt but don't do anything that a Colt doesn't. I've also had 2/3 bad customer service experiences with them: one where they outright refused to fix a very fixable issue (canted rail) that Wilson Combat ended up fixing for me, and another where they were shipping brand new M6IC lowers (one of which was mine) that had obviously too-short magazine catch teeth on them that wouldn't engage the follower on M3 PMAGs...but refused to admit the magazine catches were out of spec.
Finally, as an avid previous-LWRCI owner, the piston system not only gives you no additional advantages over DI systems, but it also provides you the hindrance of proprietary parts. Good luck repairing your gun if there's a gun ban and/or LWRCI goes under.
Not sure why Colt has any interest in LWRCI. It doesn't excite me. It doesn't bother me either. I'll stick with 6920s.
Magic_Salad0892
02-21-14, 12:44
Different niches.
I remember them both being developed for SBR applications. Am I wrong?
Hey... Maybe they'll fire all the FUKKTARDS and make the company legit. ??? I think they'd even need to blow out the Janitor to give this mess a chance.
They can't make their junk any lower in quality.
You're talking about Colt, right?
:dirol:
I remember them both being developed for SBR applications. Am I wrong?
No. 300BLK is an excellent performer in the very SBR category. 6.8SPC is an excellent performer in slightly longer SBRs all the way up to non-NFA lengths. 300BLK isn't gaining anything tangible from a non-NFA length barrel.
I feel like we've taken a bit of a tangent from the threads original direction.
I remember them both being developed for SBR applications. Am I wrong?
SBR and standard 14.5" with better terminal effects out to 300m+ than 5.56. The .30 caliber bullet was tried in the 6.8 case which duplicated 7.62x39 ballistics, but it was deemed to not have a flat enough trajectory for desert/mountain warfare.
Grand58742
02-21-14, 12:57
Isn't LWRC still collecting royalties from the Kingdom of Jordan from their licensed production? Another source of income for Colt?
Maybe Colt has decided to join the 21st century and use mid length :jester:
Seriously, wasn't the 6940 monolithic upper prototyped in a piston design? I may be wrong but IMO they probably don't need any knowledge from LWRC on piston designs. I think it has more to do with taking over their market especially foreign exports. It would seem to make business sense.
So when are 'they' going to nut-up and purpose-build a cartridge that has no limitations to conform to the existing platform?
300/6.8 have their strengths but are both compromises on a good day.
The good old 308/7.62 is not it, neither is 5.56/300/68.
Build a damn perfect cartridge (something with awesome ballistics and packaging that will service us for the next 50 years) and roll out a new M4/16/DI platform based around that cartridge.
Yeah it'll be and entirely different platform with new mags/barrels/uppers/lowers etc.
I think they've been bitching about the 5.56 cartridge long enough to justify spending a couple-hundred-billion to roll out something new, the right way. It's just money, right? Print more of the shit - never stopped them in the past. How much do we spend on all kinds of other shit?
So when are 'they' going to nut-up and purpose-build a cartridge that has no limitations to conform to the existing platform?
300/6.8 have their strengths but are both compromises on a good day.
The good old 308/7.62 is not it, neither is 5.56/300/68.
Build a damn perfect cartridge (something with awesome ballistics and packaging that will service us for the next 50 years) and roll out a new M4/16/DI platform based around that cartridge.
Yeah it'll be and entirely different platform with new mags/barrels/uppers/lowers etc.
I think they've been bitching about the 5.56 cartridge long enough to justify spending a couple-hundred-billion to roll out something new, the right way. It's just money, right? Print more of the shit - never stopped them in the past. How much do we spend on all kinds of other shit?
"They" did.......it was the 7x46mm Murray.
Why is this thread being derailed with the same old 5.56 vs. 300 Blackout vs. 6.8 SPC posts? What, no room in the "Beyond 5.56/.223" and "Terminal Ballistics Info" Forums? Another Chinese telephone moment! :rolleyes:
PLEASE FOCUS ON THE THREAD AT HAND AND NOT WITH THE 6.8 v. 300 BO v. 5.56 v. 40MM plasma rifle stuff.
Doc Safari
02-21-14, 16:37
Colt's purchase of LWRC may simply have been a business decision. It adds extra capacity while putting a competitor out of business. LWRC may have sunk low enough the Colt simply saw them as a tasty snack that adds another building full of machines and stuff to Colt's manufacturing capability.
Maybe someone here can answer this: in the cancelled IC competition wasn't the LWRC and HK *supposedly* leading the pack when it was called off? Maybe Colt either has eyes on the LWRC piston or wants to snuff it out to make theirs a contender?
In the interest of full disclosure, I used to have LWRC's and currently do have a 6940P. IMHO the Colt gas is vented in a more controlled manner than the LWRC, which blows it all over everything up front. The Colt's gas piston is also easier to access. Just my 2 cents.
Just as an FYI, this story is NOT confirmed. Not saying that it couldn't happen, but no one has bought LWRC (and they are for sale).
C4
sinlessorrow
02-21-14, 18:31
Maybe someone here can answer this: in the cancelled IC competition wasn't the LWRC and HK *supposedly* leading the pack when it was called off? Maybe Colt either has eyes on the LWRC piston or wants to snuff it out to make theirs a contender?
In the interest of full disclosure, I used to have LWRC's and currently do have a 6940P. IMHO the Colt gas is vented in a more controlled manner than the LWRC, which blows it all over everything up front. The Colt's gas piston is also easier to access. Just my 2 cents.
LWRC did not submit because they lacked the capacity to produce the rifles in a timely manner.
From what I hear ADCOR was leading the pack and blowing everyone away........well according to adcor. Point is no one is willing to admit that their rifle was not greatly better than the M4A1.
Kalash9305
02-21-14, 18:45
Yeah, my immediate thought is that if LWRC isn't in great financial shape, Colt can cheaply pick up a bit of IP regarding the LWRC lowers, and start shifting production with minimal impact (and draw minimal attention to moving their production to a more tax friendly environment).
I can't say for sure but I have kept tabs on LWRC scuttlebutt for awhile now as I have an M6A2 SPR and like the technology. They supposedly had a pretty lucrative 6.8 deal that went through with the Saudis (or the Jordanians perhaps) so I doubt it was as much cash as manufacturing capacity. LWRC has some innovative designs but its ability to mass manufacture was sorely lacking. The whole 6.8 ramp-up for the Middle East customers along with some supplier issues delayed the IC rollout for almost a year. Their new ACB II bolt had an issue with bad CNC tolerances and had to be replaced in a significant amount of their rifles (including mine) because it would not extract. Good designs , so-so execution. This is where Colt and its ability to mass produce high quality product come into play. As far as LWRC ownership is concerned between the 6.8 contract and the success of the IC ( say what you want but it is selling pretty well ) they probably figured that now was the time to find a buyer. They have profitability and some interesting designs that would attract a company who could put those ideas to use on a much larger scale. Colt fills that bill without a doubt. But the details will all come out eventually I am sure.
justin_247
02-21-14, 18:59
Maybe someone here can answer this: in the cancelled IC competition wasn't the LWRC and HK *supposedly* leading the pack when it was called off? Maybe Colt either has eyes on the LWRC piston or wants to snuff it out to make theirs a contender?
No, LWRC fell out of the competition pretty early (during Phase I). I've heard numerous reasons, but the one repeated the most seems to be that LWRC lacked the manufacturing capacity required by the Army, so they could not proceed any further.
Secondly, I seriously doubt we're going to have another IC fiasco again anytime in the near future.
Out of curiosity, who is filling the 6.8 ammo order for those Middle Eastern purchasers?
Out of curiosity, who is filling the 6.8 ammo order for those Middle Eastern purchasers?
ATK/Federal.
RogerinTPA
02-21-14, 20:00
Maybe Colt has decided to join the 21st century and use mid length :jester:
Seriously, wasn't the 6940 monolithic upper prototyped in a piston design? I may be wrong but IMO they probably don't need any knowledge from LWRC on piston designs. I think it has more to do with taking over their market especially foreign exports. It would seem to make business sense.
This makes the most sense...and to snuff out the competition, while making some of LWRC's mediocre offerings better products with Colts known quality.
Kalash9305
02-21-14, 21:18
This makes the most sense...and to snuff out the competition, while making some of LWRC's mediocre offerings better products with Colts known quality.
Bro .. LWRC does build a very high quality rifle. This is what you would expect from a smaller "boutique" , if you will, manufacturer. They sold about 50K guns last year and they were all piston.
The IC is a killer showpiece rifle and if I didn't already have an SPR I would buy one, but only because I could luckily afford it and I dig higher end products, which it certainly is.
But it is what it says it is. A show pony, NOT a warhorse. Colt, as has been said many times on this forum, builds warhorses and is VERY good at it. You can't compare the 6940P with the IC as the Colt is a mil-spec piston AR designed for the battlefield, period.
My SPR is a badass looking range toy but when it comes to real world combat forget about it. It is not designed to be produced en masse for 500,000 soldiers, but Colt sure as hell knows how to.
Case in point I just picked up a 6920 SOCOM 1 two weeks ago. It is a simplistically perfect pure killing machine. Compact, light, practically ergonomic, reliable and dead nuts accurate. Everything you would want or need in a combat/HD rifle and it will be the first thing I reach for if I am ever in a situation where armed response is required.
Can it compare with the bells and whistles of the IC ? Nope. Not supposed to. But what Colt would and should do is take some of those bells and whistles and figure out how to apply them to a better overall rifle that CAN be mass produced for our guys in the field. If they can do that then it's the mil-spec grunts that will be the winners in all this and I truly hope that is how it plays out.
In the end its kinda like the Staff Sgt. marrying one of them trophy blondes. She provides him with a bit of sophistication. He shows her the joys of prolonged repetitive action :D We'll just have to wait and see what kind of worthwhile offspring this union will produce. Our boys out there deserve it.
IMHO, the piston fad is starting to blow over. The hype about pistons isn't as strong as it was 5 years ago.
More people are buying DI AR-15s due to the obama panic and are realizing they don't need a piston.
Just as an FYI, this story is NOT confirmed. Not saying that it couldn't happen, but no one has bought LWRC (and they are for sale).
C4
There you go markm. Play the Powerball, win $425,000,000, and buy LWRC. Show up at LWRC with saber and flamethrower and proceed to slash and burn it to the ground! Put video on YouTube so we can all toast the last nail in the LWRC coffin. We can dream can't we? :cool:
http://i302.photobucket.com/albums/nn86/mechanicus1/IMG_20140220_135927_387_zpsce22a1d9.jpg
http://i302.photobucket.com/albums/nn86/mechanicus1/IMG_20140220_135927_387_close_zpsdb8a7d3e.jpg
http://i302.photobucket.com/albums/nn86/mechanicus1/IMG_20140220_135927_387_flute_zps513ab076.jpg
I saw this floating around, thought it was interesting. Seems like they are high on candy cane barrels.......
I thought lwrci got their chf barrels from someone else.
LWRC bought a hammer forge machine last year, whether its up and running 100% I dont know, im guessing yes.
they were using Ruger to hammer forge the barrels but with LWRC owened mandrels(the internal barrel profile) and with dedicated/designated lwrc inspecters there.
Grand58742
02-21-14, 23:01
IMHO, the piston fad is starting to blow over. The hype about pistons isn't as strong as it was 5 years ago.
More people are buying DI AR-15s due to the obama panic and are realizing they don't need a piston.
I think it has to do more with production numbers and cost rather than the piston vs DI debate. During the panic, people snatched up anything that came in anodized black that held a high capacity magazine regardless of operating system. I personally watched two LWRC rifles walk out a store within 10 minutes of each other during the initial stages of the panic.
Plus, I don't think most of the piston companies can keep up with production numbers when compared to Colt, Armalite, Bushmaster, etc so limited numbers means a higher price. And it's a hard sell to the hobby grade folks to pick up even a $1300 Adams Arms piston AR when its sitting next to a S&W Sport for half the price.
But you are correct in the interest starting to wan over the piston. Since the military's interest in a piston system is all but gone, the public interest has also gone with it.
Nra-Life-Member
02-21-14, 23:40
I am having a hard time seeing how this is going to benefit Colt.
None of LWRC offerings bring anything to the table, that Colt already can't do.
If Colt had been making the guns we wanted the entire time, they wouldn't of had to buy LWRC.
Colts monolith is better than LWRC 3 piece rail upper contraption. LWRCs rail is an antiquated POS. A rail that has a removable top is a completely ass backwards way of gaining access to the operating system. Any type of laser or IR sight will not stay zeroed regardless of LWRCs bullshit 1 MOA claim.
The only thing LWRC makes, that I want, is their compact stock that looks like an old school Colt CAR stock.
Could have not said it any better!
Colt becomes the new freedom group and takes a nose dive marketing to lowest common denominator like FG.
They know their GOV contract threshold is coming to an end.
Calling it now.
Good call, Colt has been out sourcing parts all along, and suffer the same QC problems that all the other manufactures are seeing. It is just that the Colt Fanboyz will still continue to follow no matter what quality they put out. Their are better guns for the money these days, even if you have to build it. Colt is not the same company they used to be.
Good call, Colt has been out sourcing parts all along, and suffer the same QC problems that all the other manufactures are seeing. It is just that the Colt Fanboyz will still continue to follow no matter what quality they put out. Their are better guns for the money these days, even if you have to build it. Colt is not the same company they used to be.
FYI, someone spouted off the same nonsense recently in another thread about Colt's QC.
Grant promptly cleared that up.
From where are you drawing your conclusion about Colt's QC?
Please do not parrot nonsense you hear or see. If you care to share some of your knowledge I am all ears. Colt has never claimed that they make everything in house and that is well known.
Good call, Colt has been out sourcing parts all along, and suffer the same QC problems that all the other manufactures are seeing. It is just that the Colt Fanboyz will still continue to follow no matter what quality they put out. Their are better guns for the money these days, even if you have to build it. Colt is not the same company they used to be.
Good call, Colt has been out sourcing parts all along, and suffer the same QC problems that all the other manufactures are seeing. It is just that the Colt Fanboyz will still continue to follow no matter what quality they put out. Their are better guns for the money these days, even if you have to build it. Colt is not the same company they used to be.
Please indulge us with a better build or factory built AR15 that kicks Colt's ass for $1000.00. Please provide links to such. List all parts, their manufacturer and their price. Us fanboyz gots to know!
TFB has posted an update to the story. (http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2014/02/20/breaking-news-colt-buying-lwrc-60-million/)
sinlessorrow
02-22-14, 01:11
http://i302.photobucket.com/albums/nn86/mechanicus1/IMG_20140220_135927_387_zpsce22a1d9.jpg
http://i302.photobucket.com/albums/nn86/mechanicus1/IMG_20140220_135927_387_close_zpsdb8a7d3e.jpg
http://i302.photobucket.com/albums/nn86/mechanicus1/IMG_20140220_135927_387_flute_zps513ab076.jpg
I saw this floating around, thought it was interesting. Seems like they are high on candy cane barrels.......
almost 100% positive that was their IC entrant.
IMHO, the piston fad is starting to blow over. The hype about pistons isn't as strong as it was 5 years ago.
More people are buying DI AR-15s due to the obama panic and are realizing they don't need a piston.
I agree 100% with this. I have had a few piston guns but sold them off a long time ago. I much prefer the simplicity and weight savings of a DI gun. My DI guns do everything I need them to do well.
TFB has posted an update to the story. (http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2014/02/20/breaking-news-colt-buying-lwrc-60-million/)
I'm guessing Colt isn't too worried about the F&D claims. Either they feel they can settle for much less, LWRC was a deal even with the pending suit amount, or vetted and believe there's no merit.
Good call, Colt has been out sourcing parts all along, and suffer the same QC problems that all the other manufactures are seeing. It is just that the Colt Fanboyz will still continue to follow no matter what quality they put out. Their are better guns for the money these days, even if you have to build it. Colt is not the same company they used to be.
Really? When you are capable of providing details please let us know, in the mean time this may help with your future posts... www.grammarbook.com
IMHO, the piston fad is starting to blow over. The hype about pistons isn't as strong as it was 5 years ago.
More people are buying DI AR-15s due to the obama panic and are realizing they don't need a piston.
This may be the case right now. If Colt wins a large contract to sell piston carbines to a government agency, I think you will see the civilian populace buy more of them.
6.8???
Is that retarded shit still even around?
You need to get over your LWRC/6.8 hate!
https://www.lwrci.com/articles/SGNLWRCsix8.pdf
Good for them. Got much love for Colt and LWRC. Let's wish them a good marriage.
Good for them. Got much love for Colt and LWRC. Let's wish them a good marriage.
Hopefully Colt will continue with LWRC's dedicated 6.8 line-up.
Hopefully Colt will continue with LWRC's dedicated 6.8 line-up.
I don't own a 6.8, but given the fact they still market platforms chambered for it more than likely indicates that there are enough consumers out there that are interested. I don't see them not continuing it. It's probably one hell of a hog gitter.
You need to get over your LWRC/6.8 hate!
https://www.lwrci.com/articles/SGNLWRCsix8.pdf
He'd lose his street cred. He wouldn't be MarkM anymore. What would we do then??
I don't own a 6.8, but given the fact they still market platforms chambered for it more than likely indicates that there are enough consumers out there that are interested. I don't see them not continuing it. It's probably one hell of a hog gitter.
It is. I've shot a lot of hogs and white tail over the years, and there is a clear and observable difference between its terminal effects and those of the best .223 loads from my hunting experience. I would make the assumption that it would a similar difference could be observed with shooting two-legged critters too.
Looks like a good marriage to me
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6.8???
Is that retarded shit still even around?
I'm seem to recall you stated you don't hunt. Maybe if you did you would understand why the 6.8 is still around.
Once again this isn't a discussion about 6.8 or hunting so let's try and keep the focus here.
TurretGunner
02-22-14, 18:23
I for one am happy LWRC will be around for a while. As long as novices are buying junk/fad guns like pistons and shit, there will be less of a market for people looking for real guns like SR-15's and DD's.
The "things that make you go hmmm. . ."
Interesting discussions going on here. Curious to know the final outcome when it does.
Freedoooom
02-23-14, 11:43
LWRC dropping out of the competition had nothing to do with manufacturing capacity. The IC order was to be built by the winner and 2 competitors and they didn't want to have to reveal trade secrets.
I would speculate it would have something to with the handguards manufacturing.
Patents. Advertising. Data. Revenue influxes. In the instance Colt really did nab LWRCi they've got themselves a nice little packet to work with. Colt isn't fixing what ain't broken. For that they don't attempt to sell what they innovate on as vigorous a basis as other companies (commercially or otherwise). In fact one may note Colt only started looking to please civilian shooters in recent times. This leads me to think they don't innovate a whole lot regardless (relatively)*. Buying a company like LWRCi is a boost they can work into something. I don't really see it being implemented into their purely military intended weaponry without a lot of careful steps, though. We can expect Colt to be Colt. For sure they can make improvements with LWRCi in the mix overall if they so desire. Currently Colt's commercial faction is not as impressive as it could be. I don't know who's heading that. But it's finally there. I assume LWRCi style stuff would be a part of expanding that moreso than the military assemblies.
I'm aware of pretty much everything that ever was on the internet about all the nifty things Colt has been doing in innovation. Yes, they have done a lot for a long time up to today. Thank you.*
I see a couple of possibilities if this rumor proves to be true. Between the increased sales of last year and the foreign contracts, LWRC could have grown themselves out of business, depending on their access to capital. That might explain them being for sale in the first place. Just a guess. Secondly, Colt may be giving them a look based on the foreign contracts and manufacturing base in FL. Not really sure what else of real value could actually be at play.
TurretGunner
02-24-14, 07:55
I see a couple of possibilities if this rumor proves to be true. Between the increased sales of last year and the foreign contracts, LWRC could have grown themselves out of business, depending on their access to capital. That might explain them being for sale in the first place. Just a guess. Secondly, Colt may be giving them a look based on the foreign contracts and manufacturing base in FL. Not really sure what else of real value could actually be at play.
What is all the manufacture base in FL talk?
LWRC's are made in Cambridge,MD. Colt is made in CT.
How are either of them related to FL?
What is all the manufacture base in FL talk?
LWRC's are made in Cambridge,MD. Colt is made in CT.
How are either of them related to FL?
From the blog post on thefirearmblog.com:
"A well placed source just told us that Colt is buying LWRC for $60 million. The deal is supposed to close on 1 March. The Maryland company may relocate to Florida or Texas and the LWRC M6 Individual Carbine (M6IC) rifle will become a Colt branded product."
TurretGunner
02-24-14, 12:12
From the blog post on thefirearmblog.com:
"A well placed source just told us that Colt is buying LWRC for $60 million. The deal is supposed to close on 1 March. The Maryland company may relocate to Florida or Texas and the LWRC M6 Individual Carbine (M6IC) rifle will become a Colt branded product."
"May" means they could also set up production on MARS.
The company will relocate to whereever is the most aventageous supply chain wise along with the best tax situation (credits/breaks).
People here say Colt has been trying to years to get out of CT. Doesn't look like they have tried hard enough.
KingsideRook
02-24-14, 15:30
"May" means they could also set up production on MARS.
The company will relocate to whereever is the most aventageous supply chain wise along with the best tax situation (credits/breaks).
People here say Colt has been trying to years to get out of CT. Doesn't look like they have tried hard enough.
It's true that, with no other manufacturing location besides CT, Colt doesn't have as much incentive to MOVE out, but they could very well BUY their way out, a piece at a time. If they set up an expandable LWRC facility in another, friendlier state, they may be able to end up moving some/a lot of production there. How much depends on the future, and Factors G through Z, none of which I am privy to. This is all speculative until there's a press release, but Remington's expansion to Alabama may set the tone for the firearms industry, to never expand in a state that bans your product, but move the new jobs where the political climate is friendly, and state tax incentives and credits pay you to arrive.
"May" means they could also set up production on MARS.
The company will relocate to whereever is the most aventageous supply chain wise along with the best tax situation (credits/breaks).
People here say Colt has been trying to years to get out of CT. Doesn't look like they have tried hard enough.
http://angrywhitedude.com/2011/12/colt-firearms-puts-bullet-in-united-auto-workers-with-fla-move/
press release was already out on 12-12-13.
leibermuster
02-25-14, 17:37
I for one am happy LWRC will be around for a while. As long as novices are buying junk/fad guns like pistons and shit, there will be less of a market for people looking for real guns like SR-15's and DD's.
To call piston guns a fad is ignorant considering how many small arms manufactures use them. Not to mention HK416 are a top choice, that being said I own a rifle from both companies you mentioned their and they all go bang and perform well.
To call piston guns a fad is ignorant considering how many small arms manufactures use them. Not to mention HK416 are a top choice, that being said I own a rifle from both companies you mentioned their and they all go bang and perform well.
Agreed.
http://forum.lwrci.com/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=15042
Mac at the bangswitch has a decent opinion on the sale, would post link but my tablet has other plans, like Colt, like Lwrc, it will be interesting to see what happens
I went to a HK 416 demo in Vegas several years ago. Over a one week period, we put almost 5k rounds of M193 through that 416 using only H&K mags, and only the initial cleaning and lube before we started. We experienced only 3 failures to fire which we attributed to the ammo, and no other malfunctions. We didn't purposely dump any dirt in the action, but a couple of days were in around 105 degrees and we had the usual Vegas dust blowing around. It's definitely interesting to see what a well made piston system is capable of.
http://forum.lwrci.com/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=15042
WOW, they really don't like Colt over there.
WOW, they really don't like Colt over there.
And LWRC gets absolutely no love over here. Ironic, isn't it?
civiliansheepdog
02-27-14, 16:52
^ Ditto.
So when are 'they' going to nut-up and purpose-build a cartridge that has no limitations to conform to the existing platform?
300/6.8 have their strengths but are both compromises on a good day.
The good old 308/7.62 is not it, neither is 5.56/300/68.
Build a damn perfect cartridge (something with awesome ballistics and packaging that will service us for the next 50 years) and roll out a new M4/16/DI platform based around that cartridge.
Yeah it'll be and entirely different platform with new mags/barrels/uppers/lowers etc.
I think they've been bitching about the 5.56 cartridge long enough to justify spending a couple-hundred-billion to roll out something new, the right way. It's just money, right? Print more of the shit - never stopped them in the past. How much do we spend on all kinds of other shit?
That post was so far off topic it isn't even funny.
However, it is also the best post I've read thus far this year.
We need to ditch the legacy shit and move on with new designs.
Amazingly no one seems to ever say "I won't buy that new pistol because it can't use my favorite glock mags. They require Walther mags. How dare they?!?"
Sorry for jumping off topic.
To call piston guns a fad is ignorant considering how many small arms manufactures use them. Not to mention HK416 are a top choice, that being said I own a rifle from both companies you mentioned their and they all go bang and perform well.
We aren't talking about piston driven guns is general. We are talking about piston driven AR-15s. This was obvious from the context of the discussion.
Regalkismet
02-27-14, 20:15
That post was so far off topic it isn't even funny.
However, it is also the best post I've read thus far this year.
We need to ditch the legacy shit and move on with new designs.
Amazingly no one seems to ever say "I won't buy that new pistol because it can't use my favorite glock mags. They require Walther mags. How dare they?!?"
Sorry for jumping off topic.
Maybe the six8....lol
quaesitor logica
02-27-14, 22:04
I hope Colt doesnt force the LWRC guys to make M-4 cuts like this (off a new Colt AR15A4 5.56 M16A2)
http://pics.gunbroker.com/GB/396445000/396445546/pix546817396.jpg
ScatmanCrothers
02-27-14, 22:10
I hope Colt doesnt force the LWRC guys to make M-4 cuts like this (off a new Colt AR15A4 5.56 M16A2)
http://pics.gunbroker.com/GB/396445000/396445546/pix546817396.jpg
Not sure if serious
I hope Colt doesnt force the LWRC guys to make M-4 cuts like this (off a new Colt AR15A4 5.56 M16A2)
http://pics.gunbroker.com/GB/396445000/396445546/pix546817396.jpg
The photo posted does not appear to be M4 cuts made by Colt. It looks like somehow a rifle barrel extension was placed on an M4 receiver.
Is this Colt brand new? Did the person selling it try go pull a fast one, it appears so.
Is it an AR15A4 or an M16A2? They are two different firearms.
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk
The cuts aren't the problem. That is a rifle barrel extension and someone probably got something mixed up. Guess what? It happens.
I hope Colt doesnt force the LWRC guys to make M-4 cuts like this (off a new Colt AR15A4 5.56 M16A2)
http://pics.gunbroker.com/GB/396445000/396445546/pix546817396.jpg
BoringGuy45
02-28-14, 00:20
I don't really find LWRC as bad so many people here do. Of all the piston ARs, they're among the better quality manufacturers. I don't there's anything inherently wrong with the idea of a piston in an AR. The piston AR is not that much younger than the DI version as everyone here knows. I know we have some people who won't forgive them for what Leitner-Wise did, the same way many still refuse to forgive Ruger over Bill Ruger's anti-gun stance when he was alive. But overall, their current offerings are pretty good. That said, are they worth $2000+? Give me a break.
Half of the reason the piston craze died down is the realization that quality DI AR rifles function just as reliably, and in some cases more so, than other types of rifles that use the conventional piston, even when hot and filthy. But I think the main reason was the unreasonable costs LWRC, HK, Colt, and LMT were charging for their piston ARs. When costs compared to DI guns were $500, $1000, $2000 more, people just couldn't spend the coin, no matter how much the "cooler, cleaner" design was pimped. Yeah, maybe if you paid $100-200 more for a piston gun, people would have been lining up, but when the cost is double, it becomes prohibitive. Companies like LWRC, Adams Arms, etc tried hard to play that the DI AR was so unreliable that the difference between dropping the extra money for their guns and "settling" for a standard AR could be the difference between life and death. But end users of the standard AR dispelled this myth and thus, people are taking that $2400 they had set aside for the LWRC and spending it on a 6920 plus a new trigger, optics, rails, and ammo.
quaesitor logica
02-28-14, 11:57
The photo posted does not appear to be M4 cuts made by Colt. It looks like somehow a rifle barrel extension was placed on an M4 receiver.
Is this Colt brand new? Did the person selling it try go pull a fast one, it appears so.
Is it an AR15A4 or an M16A2? They are two different firearms.
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk
Colt made them, they just messed up the assembly, it should have never left the factory. That is for sure. I know shit happens but this is a rookie mistake from the a company that has been making this type of rifle for decades, q.c should have caught that in the factory.
Tha being said, I am still ordering a 6933 because I can get a new one for about 1k and all said and done Colt still does more things right than they do wrong.
http://i62.tinypic.com/51vbj6.jpg
I went to a HK 416 demo in Vegas several years ago. Over a one week period, we put almost 5k rounds of M193 through that 416 using only H&K mags, and only the initial cleaning and lube before we started. We experienced only 3 failures to fire which we attributed to the ammo, and no other malfunctions. We didn't purposely dump any dirt in the action, but a couple of days were in around 105 degrees and we had the usual Vegas dust blowing around. It's definitely interesting to see what a well made piston system is capable of.
A good DI gun can do that too
I've done over 5K with a suppressor on one without additional lube or cleaning...
A good DI gun can do that too
I've done over 5K with a suppressor on one without additional lube or cleaning...
5k suppressed is pretty damn impressive. I bet that shit was Nasty!
A good DI gun can do that too
I've done over 5K with a suppressor on one without additional lube or cleaning...
What kind of lube were you using, and was the BCG chromed or MP3ed?
And LWRC gets absolutely no love over here. Ironic, isn't it?
Not really - there are only a few internet communities where people will actual fire their firearms to failure, and this is one of them. Brands like RRA, DPMS (for 5.56), and Bushmaster are still held in high repute among those who will never in the course of their ownership of a rifle fire the number of rounds defined by the mean rounds between stoppage with a DoD TDP Spec M4. The LWRC forum is one of those places, but at least justified by the fact that it's a manufacturer sponsored forum, not one which purports to be an unbiased resource of any kind.
I've seen LWRC guns run quite well, even suppressed. I don't consider them to be bad rifles, just that anybody can have a DI system for cheaper that runs as well or better, and does without some of the QA issues that tend to follow smaller companies with less research, development, testing, evaluation, and validation resources; especially when working with less proven technologies (See how KAC spends money on that stuff and is roughly the same size on the civilian side as LWRC - and which one gets recommended here).
What kind of lube were you using, and was the BCG chromed or MP3ed?
I suspect it was ran wet on an otherwise stock parkerized BCG (I know that has been done), but knowing KB might also have been an E3 setup.
Q: I get what's in this purchase for LWRC, but what's in it for Colt? What does LWRC posses Colt requires the purchase of LWRC?
Q: I get what's in this purchase for LWRC, but what's in it for Colt? What does LWRC posses Colt requires the purchase of LWRC?
Customer base that prefers "show ponies" over "war horses"? :blink:
dwhitehorne
03-04-14, 16:50
Who knows what is going on behind the scenes. When I attended a dog and pony in 2010 at LWRC after they moved to Cambridge, MD half of their rifle assembley was housed in a warehouse that was manufacturing plastics. Milk crates if I remember correctly. LWRC claimed they were going to start making there own furniture. Also I remember Matech and LWRC had a relationship around that time. LWRC has a few .Gov contracts also so we don't really know what they will get out of it. David
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