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I am curious if anybody with hands on experience with the BCG from Aero Precision could share their thoughts. I searched some, but did not turn up anything.
Thanks
http://aeroprecisionusa.com/spare-parts/aero-precision-complete-bolt-carrier-group.html
No experience with that BCG but I would guess it would serve you just fine. I don't think AP has been making BCG's long as to why no reviews out there.
How about you pick one up and let us know :)
No hands-on, but the specs look good. However, the price point for tried and true seems to be around $180. That always leaves me with a feeling of "what's missing here"...
After what they pulled last round, who cares. I would find a more respectable company to support.
What stunt did they pull?
I also doubt anything is missing per say. They just know they aren't going to compete at the price of the others. Which the "Standard" needs to lower the price back down to somewhat normal.
I also doubt anything is missing per say. They just know they aren't going to compete at the price of the others. Which the "Standard" needs to lower the price back down to somewhat normal.
A corner cut may be another way to say it when I think of something "missing", like batch testing instead of individual.
After what they pulled last round, who cares. I would find a more respectable company to support.
I would be interested if you could elaborate on this or provide links as I was toying with the idea of a build and in planning it out was looking at using a fair amount of their products.
The only thing I can think of is when the market went crazy they raised prices of their strip lowers to like $180 or something like that. They were the ONLY place to get receivers though so I can't fault them too bed for that. They would sell out instantly for the normal price.
If there is something else please inform us. I have an AP lower on my last build but if they are a shotty company I wouldn't mind getting rid of it.
What stunt did they pull?
I also doubt anything is missing per say. They just know they aren't going to compete at the price of the others. Which the "Standard" needs to lower the price back down to somewhat normal
I would be interested if you could elaborate on this or provide links as I was toying with the idea of a build and in planning it out was looking at using a fair amount of their products.
The only thing I can think of is when the market went crazy they raised prices of their strip lowers to like $180 or something like that. They were the ONLY place to get receivers though so I can't fault them too bed for that. They would sell out instantly for the normal price.
If there is something else please inform us. I have an AP lower on my last build but if they are a shotty company I wouldn't mind getting rid of it.
They promised everyone that they wouldn't raise prices when released, the first thing the did was raise them, then right in the middle of the offering they raised them again up to $200. The price change right in the middle of several orders, lots of people click add to cart at $150 but during check out they were $200.
basically they pulled a spikes type of deal.
And then how they handled it afterwards was not good.
That is good to know. What was the product they did the price swap on and when did this happen?
Can a bolt be HPT/MPI marked if they are only batch tested?
That is good to know. What was the product they did the price swap on and when did this happen?
Can a bolt be HPT/MPI marked if they are only batch tested?
It happen last year with lowers, as far as I know they didn't sell a BCG then.
Not sure on your other question.
Can a bolt be HPT/MPI marked if they are only batch tested?
Of course, otherwise it would be a lottery for who is lucky enough to get the marked one.
ETA: I'd prefer if websites specified batch or individual testing in their descriptions so you know what you are buying up front. Some sites do, some don't.
I would be interested if you could elaborate on this or provide links as I was toying with the idea of a build and in planning it out was looking at using a fair amount of their products.
Price gouging. Giving their sellers the shaft by selling stuff direct instead of fulfilling back orders from shops & retailers. Also by releasing a good number of way out of spec AR57 lowers. Aero & SAA both took the panic to the extreme, much more than even cheaper than dirt did. What was the worst, is a lot of good companies who had been waiting on backorders to be fulfilled were basically shafted because AP would rather sell direct, thus making as much money as possible on each sale due to the gouging.
(BTW I own numerous AP lowers, so not like I'm a non owner talking trash about them).
I might add that AP has been good about getting the lower price points back in service. If that BCG is up to snuff then that is more affordable than some of the others. Most businesses have a skeleton or two in their closet.
SilverBullet432
02-26-14, 19:48
Going to order an ap lower here soon.
No hands-on, but the specs look good. However, the price point for tried and true seems to be around $180. That always leaves me with a feeling of "what's missing here"...
I bought many "tried and true" BCGs when most of them (I don't own a colt) were $130, no matter where you bought one. I don't see any reason for them to now be $180 other than because they can. If anyone is taking advantage of the current circumstances, I believe it is the BIG NAMES going for $180+. But hey, what do I know?
I bought many "tried and true" BCGs when most of them (I don't own a colt) were $130, no matter where you bought one. I don't see any reason for them to now be $180 other than because they can. If anyone is taking advantage of the current circumstances, I believe it is the BIG NAMES going for $180+. But hey, what do I know?
I agree, but for economic reasons not ethical ones. I just feel that the big names have not priced themselves out of the market. If anything, brands like DPMS can now charge $130 for their offering.
quaesitor logica
02-26-14, 21:31
I remember being able to buy BCM bcg's for about $100 to $120 and lesser known brands for $80 Pre-travesty at regular prices, sales were naturally cheaper. I think that the same dynamics that make us joyfully thankful for gas prices at $3.00/g make us happy that we can get $180 dollar mil-spec bcg's
...the price point for tried and true seems to be around $180. That always leaves me with a feeling of "what's missing here"...
considering that you can get an entire Colt 6920 for under a grand, $180 for a bcg is simply profiteering - plain and simple.
quaesitor logica
02-26-14, 22:05
considering that you can get an entire Colt 6920 for under a grand, $180 for a bcg is simply profiteering - plain and simple.
Yep same goes for BCM and LMT.. etc But like we all clearly know.. they charge what the market will bear, in the end they are sold for that price because dealers can still make sales at that price point.
Yep same goes for BCM and LMT.. etc But like we all clearly know.. they charge what the market will bear, in the end they are sold for that price because dealers can still make sales at that price point.
Right on, man. I'm all for capitalism - we're not entitled to cheap prices.
I just call it what it is. And if AP gets some bashing for last year when there was an excuse, I'll bash the others for this year when there isn't.
Good thread. My AP lower works perfect, I'd have no problem running an AP BCG at that price.
No hands-on, but the specs look good. However, the price point for tried and true seems to be around $180. That always leaves me with a feeling of "what's missing here"...
Remember the $180 BCG was $139 a little over a year ago. I gotta say, with how Paul does quality control, $180 is still not unreasonable. Now that he has a reputation as one of the best, I don't mind that he is making a little more.
I did send Aero an "email" through their contact us form regarding batch or individual testing, and some other questions. If they reply, I will post it here.
Rainier bcg with limited lifetime warranty for $120?
Right on, man. I'm all for capitalism - we're not entitled to cheap prices.
Bull Crap! BCGs should be sold cheap no matter what! It's critical that RETARDS are able to buy 50 of them to stash in their closets!
FWIW, Rainier bolts are now listed as 9130 across their lineup, even the match grade NiB one. I don't know when they switched from Carpenter 158. If I had to buy a BCG that isn't an LMT Enhanced, I'd probably get the TN Arms Co Crusader NP3.
9130 seems to be coming up in a lot of places (PSA, AIM, Aero, Rainier, etc). I know that IG had a pretty thorough explanation of the differences between 9130 and C158 with the cost and lot size differences being pretty dramatic. I picked one up a little while back (NIB Bolt) to get free shipping on an entire order, and I'll put it through its paces at some point.
$40 for a bolt, saving $30 in shipping, I figured for ten bucks I can play guinea pig a bit...
Eurodriver
02-27-14, 10:45
I may be mistaken, but isn't AP a .mil supplier for Bolt carriers?
edit: Nvm it's Advanced Ordnance Precision.
justin_247
02-27-14, 11:21
They promised everyone that they wouldn't raise prices when released, the first thing the did was raise them, then right in the middle of the offering they raised them again up to $200. The price change right in the middle of several orders, lots of people click add to cart at $150 but during check out they were $200.
basically they pulled a spikes type of deal.
And then how they handled it afterwards was not good.
Hmmm, blaming Spike's for raising the prices on their lowers... which were, at the time, being supplied by Aero Precision? Blame Aero, not Spike's.
That being said, Aero produces good stuff, so say what you will about them. If you want to live in the past, that is your prerogative.
Have anybody else mentioned that this thread is about Aero BCGs, not Aero business practice history?
Specs look good, I'm not too worried about price. It's probably cheaper because they produce it in house and don't have to contract out. They have all the machinery to do so.
Buy it and shoot it. If it doesn't break, you saved yourself some money. If it breaks, send it back. When you get a replacement, you can sell it and risk your next BCG breaking as well or you can shoot the new one and hope it holds up. You're risking that something may break whenever you buy it, regardless of what it is, even a Glock.
AP seems like they'll take care of you if something goes wrong, and they're not a new company.
That being said, Aero produces good stuff, so say what you will about them. If you want to live in the past, that is your prerogative.
Never said they didn't. I would love to support them since they are local, but when you act like that, there are to many others to shop from.
Remember the $180 BCG was $139 a little over a year ago. I gotta say, with how Paul does quality control, $180 is still not unreasonable. Now that he has a reputation as one of the best, I don't mind that he is making a little more.
Yep, I remember.
Bottom line: Price is what you pay, value is what you get.
considering that you can get an entire Colt 6920 for under a grand, $180 for a bcg is simply profiteering - plain and simple.
I don't know if I would buy an entire rifle to satisfy my need for a single part/assembly. :p j/k I understand your point.
If a company offers a product at a ridiculously high price, in most cases, you can go somewhere else for a comparable product with lower price. However, if "all boats rise" within an entire industry, then I guess we start asking if [insert brand name's] $130 BCG is the next BCM (et al). Good luck, ya'll!
I can't speak for anyone else, but for fifty bucks more than the going rate for a complete DPMS BCG (or some of these other offerings), I'd like to have the "heart" of my rifle the best it can be. YMMV
quaesitor logica
02-27-14, 22:12
The bcg from Aero looks like the real deal and the equivalent of any quality mil-spec bcg. Unless they are falsely advertising this for a quick buck at the expense of everything they have built this far.
The steel isn't MilSpec... They build good parts, but out of spec is out of spec.
Waiting to see if IG chimes in on the metallurgy.
What steel is not mil spec?
I think it looks pretty awesome for the price. To clarify the website does state that the bolt itself it HP/MPI, Shot Peened, and Carpenter 158. The carrier itself is 8620 steel M16 pattern (full auto)
What steel is not mil spec?
Read it wrong. Bolt IS C158...
The response below from Aero. I asked them if the bolts were individually tested or batch tested, if they were branded, who actually manufactures them, and any other relevant information they could provide...
"Individually tested. They are not branded. They are made for us by the company who produces them for the M16 contract."
1slow01Z71
03-04-14, 09:25
While I'm totally against price gouging what AP did and CTD were totally different. Had the assault weapins ban gone through CTD wouldnt have been out of business as they sell a lot of other stuff. They were simply gouging the hell out of everyone. AP wouldve been out of business had the ban gone through, they were simply trying to make max profit before their business was banned. All you high mighty people wouldve done the same damn thing. If your business was about to be banned youd want as much money in your pocket as you could too.
With that said they brought their prices right back down after the legislation failed. Try to think about things more objectively rather than being an emotional woman about it.
I like their receivers, and scope mounts, I'm sure this bcg will be nice as well. Theyre not known for putting out crap products.
While I'm totally against price gouging what AP did and CTD were totally different. Had the assault weapins ban gone through CTD wouldnt have been out of business as they sell a lot of other stuff. They were simply gouging the hell out of everyone. AP wouldve been out of business had the ban gone through, they were simply trying to make max profit before their business was banned. All you high mighty people wouldve done the same damn thing. If your business was about to be banned youd want as much money in your pocket as you could too.
With that said they brought their prices right back down after the legislation failed. Try to think about things more objectively rather than being an emotional woman about it.
I like their receivers, and scope mounts, I'm sure this bcg will be nice as well. Theyre not known for putting out crap products.
You do realize many companies DIDN'T price gouge, so what you said is non applicable. Almost all mfg's didn't start gouging during the panic. They were also fulfilling back orders the best the could. (LMT was working insanely hard at fulfilling back orders before they would sell direct). BCM never changed a price, neither did Seekins or Noveske. AP was one of the few companies along with their sole Distributor SAA to go buko crazy. On top of that, at the time they were releasing a bunch of non consistent parts. But anyways this if off task.
Glad to hear the news about individual testing. I'm guessing they are just going over the companies prints rather than their own to keep cost down.
ScatmanCrothers
03-04-14, 10:55
While I'm totally against price gouging what AP did and CTD were totally different. Had the assault weapins ban gone through CTD wouldnt have been out of business as they sell a lot of other stuff. They were simply gouging the hell out of everyone. AP wouldve been out of business had the ban gone through, they were simply trying to make max profit before their business was banned. All you high mighty people wouldve done the same damn thing. If your business was about to be banned youd want as much money in your pocket as you could too.
With that said they brought their prices right back down after the legislation failed. Try to think about things more objectively rather than being an emotional woman about it.
I like their receivers, and scope mounts, I'm sure this bcg will be nice as well. Theyre not known for putting out crap products.
The raised prices weren't the issue. The issue was with dishonesty to their customers, both contractual and individual. Charge whatever you want, that's business. But if you sell (aka contractually promise) product to your distributors and offer a product at a specific price to individuals then don't go back and renege on open orders and take that same promised product to individuals where you up the sell price between "submit order" and "charge order." CTD might have gouged like a mofo but Aero was completely dishonest and deceitful. It was a complete amateur hour on their part. It's all personal preference in whether you choose to overlook that or not.
Having received an "Aero Precision" lower parts kit in the mail yesterday, I'm on the fence about the quality now.
While a minor inconvenience, if a company cannot be honest about their product, they don't deserve my money. While I'm sure it's an alright LPK, I was under the impression I was purchasing an AP LPK, but instead received a DPMS kit. Had I known, I would have ordered the kit from BCM and receive it next day (or 2nd business day) rather than the week wait.
Having received an "Aero Precision" lower parts kit in the mail yesterday, I'm on the fence about the quality now.
While a minor inconvenience, if a company cannot be honest about their product, they don't deserve my money. While I'm sure it's an alright LPK, I was under the impression I was purchasing an AP LPK, but instead received a DPMS kit. Had I known, I would have ordered the kit from BCM and receive it next day (or 2nd business day) rather than the week wait.
This is disappointing to me a long with their reply "They are made for us by the company who produces them for the M16 contract."
To me, it would be nice (I understand it is not common), for a company to be up front and state who made their goods, and there shouldn't be an issue telling an inquiring potential customer when asked.
This wouldn't keep me up at night. It happens a lot more in the carbine business than you would think. For the longest time PSA premium barrels had no manufacturer tied to them, and it was only alluded to that they came from FN.
Probably the best kept secret in this industry... How few people are making these parts! GH
JBecker 72
03-05-14, 15:52
BCM never changed a price
So I'm just imagining the $130 BCM BCG's that went up to $220 with a $30 NRA donation, and have now settled at $190 and don't look to come back down to normal ever? They said they went up in price to curb the price gouging that people were causing by flipping them, so they themselves raised their price, and never went back to the original like many other companies did when it settled down.
Don't get me wrong, I like BCM, but there are basically 0 companies in the industry who didn't capitalize on the panic and make out like bandits from it. Some are just more egregious than others.
Having received an "Aero Precision" lower parts kit in the mail yesterday, I'm on the fence about the quality now.
While a minor inconvenience, if a company cannot be honest about their product, they don't deserve my money. While I'm sure it's an alright LPK, I was under the impression I was purchasing an AP LPK, but instead received a DPMS kit. Had I known, I would have ordered the kit from BCM and receive it next day (or 2nd business day) rather than the week wait.
Very few to no companies produce an entire LPK's. The only one I can say that does is Colt. They also outsource parts as well (to the TDP specs). DD, LMT, S&W and DPMS are probably the three main companies that make several components in house.
C4
This is disappointing to me a long with their reply "They are made for us by the company who produces them for the M16 contract."
To me, it would be nice (I understand it is not common), for a company to be up front and state who made their goods, and there shouldn't be an issue telling an inquiring potential customer when asked.
Most every company out there sources BCG's. Colt is one of the very few companies that do both (make them in house and outsource them).
Outsourcing BCG's isn't a problem AS LONG AS the company provides the manufacturer with specs (materials used, dims, coating, hardness, etc). Then, they HPT and MPI (use an accredited Lab to check) each and every one. If a company just orders "BCG" they will get whatever the manufacturer has sitting around. It is 100% realistic for a company like Colt or BCM to reject BCG's, send them back to the manufacturer and then they send them to a dealer that doesn't do the same level of QC.
Read the BCM upper receiver thread that I wrote about them rejecting nearly 50% of the receivers they were getting in.
C4
So I'm just imagining the $130 BCM BCG's that went up to $220 with a $30 NRA donation, and have now settled at $190 and don't look to come back down to normal ever? They said they went up in price to curb the price gouging that people were causing by flipping them, so they themselves raised their price, and never went back to the original like many other companies did when it settled down.
Don't get me wrong, I like BCM, but there are basically 0 companies in the industry who didn't capitalize on the panic and make out like bandits from it. Some are just more egregious than others.
In 2012, BCM raised prices on their BCG's by $5 dollars from the beginning of the year to the end. In 2013, they went up about $15 dollars. The reason for the increase was simple. Supply and demand. They could not meet the demand because of all the shortages throughout the industry. If you cannot meet demand, there is no reason to sell them for as cheap as you can.
Even going back to 2011, BCM BCG's did not retail at $130. The reason I know this is because that's not far off my cost for them.
Colt BCG's typically sell for $200-$250. So to me, the BCM's are fairly priced.
YMMV.
C4
Very few to no companies produce an entire LPK's. The only one I can say that does is Colt. They also outsource parts as well (to the TDP specs). DD, LMT, S&W and DPMS are probably the three main companies that make several components in house.
C4
Oh, yeah I know there's very few actual makers of small parts. For me it was the fact that they listed it as theirs, yet the invoice states DPMS.
Either way, I'm sure it's OK for an LPK.
JBecker 72
03-05-14, 16:30
So I'm imagining buying a BCM BCG at $130-$135 in 2011? How about the uppers that used to be $419 and are now $459? I get supply and demand, but that time has passed, stuff is sitting on shelves compared to a year ago.
And I don't put much stock in Colt individual prices, they can kick rocks there. Black Friday you could get a 6920 for $950 shipped. If you were to build that rifle in pieces it would be $2000.
This is coming from a guy with BCM and Colt rifles in the safe. I just don't get why they get a pass on the price increase and everyone else gets nailed to the wall here.
Oh, yeah I know there's very few actual makers of small parts. For me it was the fact that they listed it as theirs, yet the invoice states DPMS. Why not just sell it as a known LPK if that's what it is?
Either way, I'm sure it's OK for an LPK.
Understand. Most every company does this (fyi). So you should pretty much assume that a company did NOT make the LPK's they are selling.
The reason they cannot sell it by the name of the manufacturer is because:
1. Most people have never heard of the companies that make parts (so it is meaningless).
2. Don't want to divulge where they get parts.
3. They source parts from several different companies. So it always changes.
We source our (G&R) LPK's from two main companies. One of them is LMT. Unfortunately LMT does not make things like springs and detents so we have to go to another company that does.
From what I know, I only use LPK's (in my own guns) from these places:
1. Colt
2. BCM/KAC/LMT/G&R
YMMV.
C4
So I'm imagining buying a BCM BCG at $130-$135 in 2011? How about the uppers that used to be $419 and are now $459? I get supply and demand, but that time has passed, stuff is sitting on shelves compared to a year ago.
And I don't put much stock in Colt individual prices, they can kick rocks there. Black Friday you could get a 6920 for $950 shipped. If you were to build that rifle in pieces it would be $2000.
This is coming from a guy with BCM and Colt rifles in the safe. I just don't get why they get a pass on the price increase and everyone else gets nailed to the wall here.
You might have for a little while. Somewhere in the middle of that year BCM raised prices. There were two main reasons for this. Shortages of parts and they added distributor sales. Once they did this, they had to raise prices so that the distributor and dealer could make a certain percentage.
It is just as difficult to get quality items now as it has ever been. BCM (for instance) continues to add more QC, contract out more parts (made only for them) than ever before. All of this has a price.
A company that doesn't do as much (or any) QC, doesn't in house HPT and send everything out to an independent lab for MPI and have a dealer sales network, can easily sell BCG's for $130.
Cost of living, overhead, shortages in raw materials all takes its toll. If it bothers you stick to companies that sell cheaper gear.
C4
JBecker 72
03-05-14, 16:50
If it bothers you stick to companies that sell cheaper gear.
C4
It doesn't, as you can tell from the last paragraph of the post you quoted. I'm merely stating my confusion for why certain companies price increases during the same time period are "shady", and others are fine. I plan on ordering another BCM BCG in the next week or 2 because I know it's a quality product, and the rifle it's going in isn't a toy. But at the same time I have to wonder if I'm paying $50 more for the name, when I could get a CMT M16 BCG from Bravo Company for $130.
It doesn't, as you can tell from the last paragraph of the post you quoted. I'm merely stating my confusion for why certain companies price increases during the same time period are "shady", and others are fine. I plan on ordering another BCM BCG in the next week or 2 because I know it's a quality product, and the rifle it's going in isn't a toy. But at the same time I have to wonder if I'm paying $50 more for the name, when I could get a CMT M16 BCG from Bravo Company for $130.
I think the difference is that BCM told you why they did it. Other companies just let you guess. That's the difference.
Less Colt, I don't know any company that does more QA/QC than BCM. The amount of money they spend on fixtures to check every critical dim is breath taking! On top of this, their give chit factor is extremely high.
Buy with confidence.
C4
JBecker 72
03-05-14, 16:59
Less Colt, I don't know any company that does more QA/QC than BCM. The amount of money they spend on fixtures to check every critical dim is breath taking! On top of this, their give chit factor is extremely high.
Buy with confidence.
C4
That's why I continue to support them, and to a lesser extent, Colt.
Grant, thanks for your input. It has given a greater understanding that a lot of cost to the end purchaser is almost certainly due to higher standards and more intensive quality control procedures.
Grant, thanks for your input. It has given a greater understanding that a lot of cost to the end purchaser is almost certainly due to higher standards and more intensive quality control procedures.
You are welcome!
C4
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