View Full Version : HK45 LEM vs Glock
So, I've got my HK45 and love it. However, I'm left handed so I need an ambi safety. Naturally, the clowns at HK Germany are being total dorks about releasing the ambi safety. It was originally a late 1st Qtr or early 2nd Qtr release. Now it's "We don't know".
As an alternative I was thinking of trying the LEM trigger. None of the shops local to me have LEM HKs in stock for me to fondle. As my forum name shows I'm a Glock shooter and was wondering if anyone has some input on how the LEM (with light springs) compares to a standard Glock trigger? Close enough?
And don't tell me to trade the HK45 in on two M&P45s. That's just cruel.
I see them as totally dissimilar systems; the LEM (or the DAK system on SIG's) is more like a lighter, shorter revolver pull; the Glock "Safe Action" trigger/action system is more analogous to a single-action system trigger (I know, I know...the blasphemy has been spoken...) like that on a 1911 pattern pistol. It would be very, very interesting to see how an experienced, objective user of both Glock and 1911 system compares them out.
While I have zero pretensions as to my experience and/or expertise, while the 1911 has a shorter, crisper triggerpull and shorter reset, I find that somewhat offset by the manual safety. I like both systems, but for me, I actually find the Glock system simpler and slightly faster (but I also find myself trounced in matches by experienced 1911 shooters).
I prefer the Glock action/trigger to that of either the LEM or DAK. It's faster, and has a shorter reset (although both LEM and DAK can be customized regarding the reset distance, and, in the case of the HK, the triggerpull weight also). I think that it really boils down to individual preferences, or organizational mandates. Arguably, the LEM/DAK is a bit safer in the sense that greater trigger travel is necessary to fire the chambered cartridge-but I view safety of any system as a matter of training and familiarity with the system used on the part of the shooter.
In short, while I appreciate all three systems (LEM, DAK and Glock) I personally am more comfortable and preferential towards the Glock. Between the LEM and the DAK, I prefer the DAK, because of what I perceive as its smoothness, and I like having the two reset/triggerpull weight options. Those preferring the HK system seem to feel that smoothness is acquired over time, and that it's shorter reset is more preferable to that of the DAK.
Realistically, each system has its pros and cons. My advice would be to choose one, and concentrate on mastering it.
Best, Jon
The Dumb Gun Collector
05-22-08, 18:48
Just run it with the safety off!:D
Well, that's certainly an option for the HK45, but it's not a particularly good idea with a 1911...
Best, Jon
I had the same problem with being left handed. What I did was just send my HK USP 40 back and they switched the safety to the other side, It only took 2 weeks. So that's something you could do.
Gutshot John
05-22-08, 19:11
Isn't it great being a lefty? Talk about the largest group in our country that is discriminated against. :cool:
No seriously. I eventually settled on the Glock as it was simply the best available compromise for the left handed shooter...as it really doesn't discriminate.
I've shot the LEM and I agree it's a totally different system/feel. I didn't like it but that doesn't mean you won't.
I used to have a 9mm USP which I sent back to them to convert to v3. They charged me for the part, but they were quick and responsive. I ended up selling it when I went to the Glock.
The Dumb Gun Collector
05-22-08, 19:14
JoninWa,
Well, that's certainly an option for the HK45, but it's not a particularly good idea with a 1911...
Not a problem in the 1911. I just call it "safe action" and don't worry about it!:p
I had the same problem with being left handed. What I did was just send my HK USP 40 back and they switched the safety to the other side, It only took 2 weeks. So that's something you could do.
Unfortunately, you can't with the HK45. HK doesn't have anything but the V1 (safety set up for a righty) or the LEM system currently available for the HK45.
I've heard that the LEM with the light springs has a light, almost zero weight takeup until the end, when it breaks around 4.5-5 lbs. Similar to the Glock. The standard LEM has a heavier takeup and then an 8lb break (or thereabouts so I've heard).
Plan A was to wait for HK to release the ambi safety, which will hopefully occur in my lifetime, but no one is sure.
Plan B was to get the LEM conversion. Not trivial at about $200 with shipping. Naturally, HK hates us enough not to let us buy the LEM kits for us to install. You can do that for every other HK, except the HK45.
Plan C is to trade it in on two M&P45s.
The Dumb Gun Collector
05-22-08, 20:32
Plan A was to wait for HK to release the ambi safety, which will hopefully occur in my lifetime, but no one is sure.
Let's remember, the HK45 has only been availible about 6 months. Plus, the equipment for manufacturing the pistols has apparently been moved to the U.S.A. for domestic production. The bits will probably be out pretty soon.
Plan B was to get the LEM conversion. Not trivial at about $200 with shipping. Naturally, HK hates us enough not to let us buy the LEM kits for us to install. You can do that for every other HK, except the HK45.
So far! Again, this being a new model, the goodies just aren't in the pipeline. I doubt their are enough LEM kits out their for HKUSA to be selling them yet. They are probably hoarding them for their own conversions.
Plan C is to trade it in on two M&P45s.
I will have to go with ol' LAV and say that the HK will probably be more bomb-proof than the M&Ps, but probably not more bomb-proof than TWO!!
SingleStacker45
05-22-08, 20:56
I looked hard at the HK45 but settled on the glock 21SF. The grip was nicer on the HK but that's about the only benifit I could see. The glock SF had a higher round count was half the price and extra mags are half the price. I put a ghost rocket in mune and a extended slide release and i't's the best glock I have ever had and I have had plenty of them.
Mule
I'm a Glock shooter and was wondering if anyone has some input on how the LEM (with light springs) compares to a standard Glock trigger? Close enough?
FWIW, shooters using HK's (and Sig's) generally perform at the bottom of the pack at Rogers Shooting School, and according to them, those using the LEM being the worse.
My personal best score at Rogers (been there three times now) was a 121 (out of 125 ... no student has ever scored 125). It was shot with a P220ST back in '03.
Last week I was there shooting my M&P9, and as much as I love the gun, the best score I managed for the week was a 117. :mad: Of course, I blame the gun. ;)
The Dumb Gun Collector
05-23-08, 00:07
Gasp! Not a double action with the DREADED high-bore axis!!:p
Gasp! Not a double action with the DREADED high-bore axis!!:p
I'm told they'll give you a bad case of the crabs too :cool:
SingleStacker45
05-23-08, 08:09
My personal best score at Rogers (been there three times now) was a 121 (out of 125 ... no student has ever scored 125). It was shot with a P220ST back in '03.
Last week I was there shooting my M&P9, and as much as I love the gun, the best score I managed for the week was a 117. :mad: Of course, I blame the gun. ;)
I Always blame the gun! It's much easier to fix than teqnique. Just go out and buy a new one. :p
Mule
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