View Full Version : Old guys - care to share some wisdom? Career advice...
Eurodriver
02-26-14, 18:18
So I'm at a crossroads in life. I'm a year out from taking (and hopefully passing) my CPA exam. Marine Corps veteran. College graduate (getting my Masters until I run out of GI bill $$$) And I have no earthly idea what I want to do. Today I went to a career fair and I spoke to a plethora of organizations, from the FBI to a privately owned food distributor to a public accounting firm to a local Sheriff's Dept to the U.S. Secret Service. I also called the local USMC Officer Selection Officer to see about going back into the USMC on the dark side. Given that this forum has a lot of those in professions that I am interested in, I figured I'd post here for advice. Instead of typing a long ass narrative that no one will read anyhow, I'll list a few bullet points.
Some concerns:
I like the idea of being a part of something with substance and having that close group of guys. It's what I miss most about the USMC and one of the reasons I'm leaning toward an LE/Mil job.
I don't like federal organizations moving me around the country. The FBI, USMC (duh) and SS all said that I can expect to spend several years as a rookie wherever they want me to go. I like where I live. I've never seen snow and I don't deal with non-CCW/NFA states very well. (Spent a long time in Hawaii dealing with that) But they also pay better and have better opportunities for advancement than local LE organizations.
I don't like the idea of sitting in a cubicle for 30 years as a CPA. I've interned at PriceWaterhouseCooper and they've got a great corporate culture, pay well, and after 5 years there you can get some seriously big dollar job offers in private industries. But it's 60 hour weeks for 5 years doing nothing but staring at excel spreadsheets.
Money talks. Sheriff starts out at 45k, I know a few guys at 10 years making close to 70k with overtime. FBI is around the same, but pay increases are better. USMC is pretty good too as an O1E, especially when you factor in BAH, BAS, health insurance, etc. I can live with those numbers, but Jacksonville, NC sucks. CPAs start out at close to 60k and if you go the partner track you will be in the triple digits.
I like my field. Accounting is fun. I know I have to choose whether I want to kick in doors or shuffle paperwork but I enjoy both equally. This is what confounds me the most. I would love LE, but I know I'm going to be doing patrol for 10 years and I'll never get to put my education to use.
I love the USMC and my dream since I was a little kid was to be an officer, but I'm not the best PT'er. While I can pass OCS and TBS I don't want to be one of those one and done Captains that wants to be career designated but his 20:00 run time is too slow and gets him kicked out. Then I'd be in my early 30s right back where I started. I've literally seen 1stLts sweating their asses off regarding retention and I don't want my future to be so easily cut short. I'm squared away and everything, don't get me wrong. It just seems like it's too iffy and I don't want to place my future on something as flexible as Marine Corps retention policy.
Any input is appreciated.
montanadave
02-26-14, 18:44
How about forensic accounting in one of the alphabet fed agencies? Use your accounting skills to lock up some banksters or drug dealers or shitbirds funneling money to terrorist groups.
Addressing the primarily desired feedback element as "old guys" will probably get you all the meaningful responses deserved. This being the hearty young go-getter you are of course.
random thoughts
- you're going to have to pay your dues with any new profession. I'd get over the initial adversity to relocation. I'd be willing to make whatever short term sacrifices are necessary to make "it" happen whatever "it" may be. Remember there are a lot of sharp people out there who will.
- I know a lot of local LEO, some of which are friends. I worked with a detective who became a special agent with the FBI. It wasn't an easy process, but from what I can tell extremely rewarding for him.
- very few LEO jobs are going to pay you real money. When I say real I'm thinking $120k+
- if you hate the "cubical" office environment, forget CPA
So in your shoes based on the very limited info provided, I'd lean heavily towards Federal LEO.
Option B: open your own CPA firm and make it rain
You thought about fire departments too? Close group of guys, excitement, and people love FF's ... (for the most part).
How about entering the admin side of the house on a PD? Is than an option? Still be a sworn officer/deputy, but not on the beat.
USN - NCIS? Similar fields with other branches? Are you set on staying greenside? I can tell you, OIS with the Navy will probably be a cake walk.
Old guys - care to share some wisdom? Career advice...
Since I am an old guy, and you asked for it, here goes. But just remember there is more than one way to skin a cat.
Now retired, I was a business guy my whole adult life, specifically the financial business. What I learned was don't think that just because you start one place doesn't mean you should not end up somewhere else. And that applies to both companies and geography. I am very comfortable in my retirement, but I must credit my willingness to change jobs and geography over the years. I would be nowehre near as well off as i am if I had stayed with my first employer all those years.
So my advice is not to worry so much about your first job after your CPA - it need not last forever and you will probably be better off if it doesn't. So don't think your whole future life depends on this decision. It most likely doesn't.
Consider this next job a learning experience about what you really want to do in life, and where you want to do it. I made 5 company changes with multiple geographies associated with each. Each move was difficult, but all were very worthwhile to me in long run. Good luck!
Eurodriver
02-26-14, 20:26
Thanks guys. I never thought that adversity to relocating was going to adversely affect future performance, even though it makes perfect sense now that I think about it. Since that is the case, I may just go Federal LEO. FBI is desperate for Special Agent Accountants with CPAs. But I've heard that they (and other federal agencies) are trying to hire minorities and those that speak foreign languages aggressively.
I know several early-30s somethings that started at PWC and now own their own CPA firms doing taxes for Partnerships/LLCs and NFPs and they most definitely make it rain, they never look at excel spreadsheets, and their offices have views that are just incredible. But they strike me as more the exception than the norm.
Addressing the primarily desired feedback element as "old guys" will probably get you all the meaningful responses deserved. This being the hearty young go-getter you are of course.
Have you ever seen a t-shirt like this?
http://cdnll.theparagon.com/images/500/26956.jpg
It's a term of endearment directed toward those who I respect for having been there/done that and are willing to share their thoughts.
montanadave
02-26-14, 20:38
My dad had a college buddy who worked for the FBI. After my folks had relocated to Montana in the fifties, he told my dad that the metaphorical Sword of Damocles that every FBI supervisor dangled over their minions was the threat of a transfer to the Butte, MT field office. :D
So I guess if you get offered an FBI position in the Butte, MT field office, you might want to reevaluate your career options.
SeriousStudent
02-26-14, 20:51
How about forensic accounting in one of the alphabet fed agencies? Use your accounting skills to lock up some banksters or drug dealers or shitbirds funneling money to terrorist groups.
This. There are a lot of TLA's out there that like CPA's, like prior military, and want people that can figure out puzzles. I had a bunch of organizations, most of them focusing on some sort of law enforcement, chat with me when I got out of the Corps.
Something to consider about re-entering the military: With the level of projected cuts, retention is going to be a challenge. They will look for every chance to hurl people over the side. Factor that into the decision, along with the travel.
Have you thought about Treasury Department, and something like FinCEN? Their Financial Intelligence Unit does very interesting work. I'm not sure if all of them are 1811's or sworn agents toting ironmongery.
http://www.fincen.gov/careers/
It's a tough gig, but somebody has to go to the Caymans and investigate all that money laundering. :cool:
I'd also strongly recommend taking some computer security or information assurance classes, to go with the accounting/finance.
SeriousStudent
02-26-14, 20:54
I always thought Butte was the cultural mecca of the Effa Bee Eye?
For me, that would be like pitching me in the briar patch. Low crime, wide open country, hunting and fishing galore?
Hellz yeah, send me to Butte!
I'm not an old guy, just early 30s but I basically do what you are trying to do. You do have a one up on me in having a degree in accounting versus criminal justice, which, ironically is probably the worst degree to have if you want to be a part of any prestigious federal law enforcement agency.
I've been in federal law enforcement for a little over five years. I would say right now is a pretty difficult time to get on unless you have some pretty special skills such as a high demand language, former SOF or the like. I've actually been trying to get into another agency and have been finding it difficult. I'm a veteran, have a bachelor's, can speak Cantonese and Spanish fairly well, and currently serve as a federal LEA.
Keep in mind, many agencies will state that mobility is a factor, but I would say that is highly agency dependent, and after that, more dependent on the particular office or sector you fall under. I have friends who are criminal investigators with HSI and the USMS who have been in the Southwest for several years (up to eight). Reason being, this is an extremely busy corridor/sector/office. I don't know any DEA guys that well, but I would bet it's safe to say they won't be forced to move out of here either. On the other hand, if you work for the Department of State as a DSS agent or a plain 1811, you are pretty much guaranteed to travel. The FBI, which as much as I hate to say it, is the premier federal LE agency out there really likes people with practical degrees such as accounting, sciences, and the like. They also like former Marines (they share a common training area at Quantico). I don't know any FBI guys well enough to tell you how often they are expected to move. You haven't stated where you are or what part of the country you are willing to move to.
Also, like someone else mentioned, you can work under various capacities for federal agencies other than as a LEO/A. There's tons of positions in mission support and intelligence. If that's too boring, there are armed positions such as asset forfeiture/seized property specialists for many agencies. I'm sure you know about it already, but the best place to look is USAJobs.com.
If you have some questions for me, PM me and I'll do my best to help you out and give honest advice.
You could always look into the right private banking firms. The numbers game is right up your alley and the ability to learn and pass the requisite tests seems very feasible. Junior people start out working on a team of five or so people handling everything for the clients finances. It's a great field if you have the right mindset for it and there is a big initiative around hiring military veterans at a couple of the nations largest firms. I have contacts at mine, and a few of the other big players. If you're interesting in hearing about some of the perks PM me.
Magic_Salad0892
02-26-14, 22:24
You could apply at the Treasury Dept. with a resume like yours. They have a Financial Investigation unit that primarily deals with fraud and the like.
Maybe you should look into it.
SeriousStudent
02-26-14, 22:38
You could apply at the Treasury Dept. with a resume like yours. They have a Financial Investigation unit that primarily deals with fraud and the like.
Maybe you should look into it.
Exactly why I recommended it in post number 9. ;)
Magic_Salad0892
02-26-14, 22:39
Exactly why I recommended it in post number 9. ;)
Derp. I missed that one. Lol. That's what I get for not reading through an entire thread before posting.
Being CPA, One of the craziest, easy going Feds I every worked with was a Criminal Investigator for the IRS. When working Narcotics we brought him in to track the proceeds of the drug money. He loved chasing the crooked money. He was funny as hell.
Forget all that nonsense.
Move to FL and pull your FFL. Then just sit back and get stinking rich on $10 transfers.
Just over 50 you would call it old. I say 80 is old :)
Done a few things no regrets but always carved my own path while it's tough being on your own you don't answer to anyone :)
So I prefer the small biz route
One of my HS buds was military now teaches at Huachuca makes good money and likes his job he has no regrets
While you think 50 is old and far away it's not before ya know it it's on you IMHO do what you want to do and what you enjoy used to hear some friends bitching about a suck job etc...
At 50 you don't heal as quick don't feel like jumping off quite as big a cliff and think before ya do stupid fun stuff so if the option comes up to do something you like that is more physical do it now when ya can better handle it
If you can do something ya like come out at 55 with some retirement benefits 55 is young enough to start over a new career path using your mind more than physical for another 20 some years IMHO I will never retire will always want to work
I did not Mary till I was in my later 30s super solid marriage most likely cause we knew what we wanted and were not dumb kids :)
Live life do what you want !
Treasury thing sounds cool :)
Gov job could be good for benefits down the line and connections later on to start your own biz when ya get that 25 years retire and start over
While not old and only 8 years in law enforcement, I would make a mention towards ICE and DEA your skill set would be interesting to them as well. ICE handles a lot of money tracking and at least for the agency I work for has been very helpful when we make money seizures and tracking that money down and finding people that need a stay in jail. ICE is definitely overlooked and I would guess your skill set would not be wasted.
No matter what job you take, something about it sucks. The Suck is your friend. The ones who get past The Suck are the ones who go places and The Bigger the Bucks the Greater the Sucks.
Whatever job you decide to take, learn the rules and regulations and how to follow them. Those who know the book and how to follow it are those who do well. Notice I didn't say "those who follow the book". I said "those who know how to follow the book". I've found there is a distinct and important difference.
Once you decide what to do, do it. It's like your carbine. You won't know what works until you get out and shoot
Eurodriver
02-27-14, 07:48
Thanks for all of the good info so far. I never considered any of the alphabet soup agencies you guys are spitting out. My ideal situation would be to work in Federal LE with opportunities for advancement while doing accounting investigations (fraud, auditing, etc). I understand doing stuff like this I won't be kicking in doors or doing interviews but it sure beats doing P&L statements for beachfront hotels and Schedule C's for Bob's handiman service. $45,000/yr starting is okay if its doing something I enjoy and there is a decent step pay plan.
How would I go about applying for these? Are they all on USAJOBS like the FBI? What's the hiring timeline like? 1-2years?
The most frustrating thing about this whole process isn't being unknowledgeable about these agencies, it's not even knowing where to go to get information. I have dozens of acquaintences that are CPAs and could tell me all of the ins and outs of owning a firm, working for the Big 4, etc. I also have plenty of friends in local LE. But I've only met two Federal LE guys. One was an FBI Special Agent who I met at a wedding and was not in a chatty mood about his occupation, and the other one was DHS who spent every free second of his life ensuring his child wasn't pictured in any of his school's yearbooks or paperwork. (My ex was the school teacher)
When you look at a career, you must decide if you want a job that you LOVE (that doesn't pay well) OR get a job that you don't like (that pays well enough to support your personal interests).
Yes, there are jobs that pay very well (6 figures) and are cool (I have one). My only wisdom having gone through the military, been a defense contractor and now own my own multi-million dollar business is to realize that money does not buy happiness. Be content wherever you are in life. If you are an idealist, go for your dream job and don't worry about the money. If you have tons of hobbies, like to travel and live the high life (which I think is you), go after the career that will put you in the higher income bracket.
C4
I seem to recall the FBI preferred people with accounting backgrounds, and the added mil background, would seem to help. I don't know if that's a current hiring focus of the FBI, but it used to be at least.
Thanks for all of the good info so far. I never considered any of the alphabet soup agencies you guys are spitting out. My ideal situation would be to work in Federal LE with opportunities for advancement while doing accounting investigations (fraud, auditing, etc). I understand doing stuff like this I won't be kicking in doors or doing interviews but it sure beats doing P&L statements for beachfront hotels and Schedule C's for Bob's handiman service. $45,000/yr starting is okay if its doing something I enjoy and there is a decent step pay plan.
I believe that's a major area of focus for the FBI
How would I go about applying for these? Are they all on USAJOBS like the FBI? What's the hiring timeline like? 1-2years?
The most frustrating thing about this whole process isn't being unknowledgeable about these agencies, it's not even knowing where to go to get information. I have dozens of acquaintences that are CPAs and could tell me all of the ins and outs of owning a firm, working for the Big 4, etc. I also have plenty of friends in local LE. But I've only met two Federal LE guys. One was an FBI Special Agent who I met at a wedding and was not in a chatty mood about his occupation, and the other one was DHS who spent every free second of his life ensuring his child wasn't pictured in any of his school's yearbooks or paperwork. (My ex was the school teacher)
Google is your friend: https://www.fbijobs.gov/03.asp
Eurodriver
02-27-14, 09:16
Thanks Will. The FBI is still pretty in need of accountants for many of the reasons listed in this thread - mainly, that in the private sector they make so much more money. They recruit heavily at my university and no one even bothers talking to them.
Grant, it's a tough pill to swallow but I do like $$$...
Have you thought about Treasury Department, and something like FinCEN? Their Financial Intelligence Unit does very interesting work. I'm not sure if all of them are 1811's or sworn agents toting ironmongery.
http://www.fincen.gov/careers/
It's a tough gig, but somebody has to go to the Caymans and investigate all that money laundering. :cool:
I just looked into this. Seems pretty interesting. I'd have to live in NOVA and I would qualify once I had my Masters of Accountancy.
https://www.usajobs.gov/GetJob/ViewDetails/362475700
montanadave
02-27-14, 09:33
Euro, just think of the possibilities. Make the right moves and in no time YOU could be doing this kind of work for the FBI (copy of email received this AM to follow):
FBI Headquarters in Washington, D.C.
Federal Bureau of Investigation
J. Edgar Hoover Building
935 Pennsylvania Avenue,
NW Washington, D.C. 20535-0001
27/02/2014
FEDERAL BUREAU OF INVESTIGATION (FBI)
ATTENTION:
We have been directed to inform you that we have been monitoring all
your contacts with some fraudsters/impostors on the internet that
claims to be working for the Nigerian Government and the FEDERAL
BUREAU OF INVESTIGATIONS (FBI) and this agency which is HOMELAND
SECURITY SERVICES AND THE CENTRAL INTELLIGENCE AGENCY (CIA) has been
on your aid in other to protect you from being prosecuted by the
International Crimes Department by asking you to secure the FREE
CITIZEN CERTIFICATE after the Clean Bill Certificate has been issued
to you previously by the FBI as we have it here in our database but
instead of you doing that you still continue you contact with the
Criminals on the internet that claim to be working for the release of
some fraudulent funds to you.
You are suppose to have been arrested earlier before now by the CIA
following the orders that were given by the International Crimes
Department, the Nigerian Government has been contacted on this
development and they are also helping us in tracking down on the
criminals that has been confusing you all this while.
So right now all you need to do in other to protect your image and
that of your entire country is to get the FRAUD CLEARANCE CERTIFICATE
as you have been warned because we are suppose to carry out the arrest
on you today but due to the fact that some assignments was carried out
by the fraud department of the FBI, it has been canceled and the new
date would be announced later.
This is the final notification that i would be sending to you because
we already have all your details/information and you ID in our
database which would be forwarded to the WORLD COURT as your name has
been enlisted in the WORLD SCAM RECORDS as a top 11 fraudster.
For the last time we are advising that you stop any further contact
with any person or group of persons that claims to be working for the
issuance of your funds because no such funds exist as far as we are
concerned and the only funds that was entitled to you of which the FBI
has been given the necessary order to necessitate the transfer is the
compensation funds which is valued at the sum of $12million usd that
was issued to by the Nigerian Government to compensate you for the
embarrassment and insults to your personality which the Nigerian
Fraudsters used your identity to dupe a German business man of a huge
amount of money and which we are still investigating until this
moment.
If you know that you really want to save your life and the future of
your family, we are advising that you secure the FRAUD CLEARANCE
CERTIFICATE so that your name can be shortlisted from the scammers
list which has already been submitted to the International Crimes
Department and this certificate will give access to the issuance of
your compensation funds.We have also spread our networks to the
following countries which are Australia, Canada, Africa, United
Kingdom, Asia and Poland.
All the people that have their names in the list would be inset in our
website any moment from now because we are charged to wipe away all
the fraudulent transactions being held on the internet in which many
people have lost their lives and properties. So it will be better for
you to update us on the actual date in which you would be able to make
the payment of $70 Usd to the agency over there in Nigeria for them to
issue the FRAUD CLEARANCE CERTIFICATE to you because that is the only
guarantee that would make us believe that your name and ID was really
forged and not real as claimed because the German Business Man has
contacted all the Crimes Agency on this matter and it was your ID that
he has placed in all the Crimes Department for a search of you.
This Certificate will be attached along with the previous Clean Bill
Certificate so that the attorney who is handling this process could
get everything mandated as you have only 12hours to co-operate with
this directives and this last Certificate as stated by the issuance
department would cost you the sum of $70 Usd and this fees should be
paid within a short while from now on.
The payment should be sent through either Western Union Money Transfer
or Money Gram Transfer with the below details:
Receivers Name: MBACHU CHIGBO
Location: LAGOS NIGERIA
Text Question: WHAT FOR
Text Answer: RED
Amount: $70 Usd.
The payment details should be sent once the payment has been sent and
don't forget to include the Senders Name and Address and the MTCN
NUMBER.
This is our advise to you and we do hope to get a positive feed back
from you as soon as possible.
BEST REGARD
AGENT WALTER SKINNER
FBI SPECIAL AGENT FOR CRIMES/FRAUD
You want a contact. I'd start with Walt. :D
Now I gots to go as apparently I only have 12 hours left before the feds kick my door in and haul me away as a "top 11 fraudster."
Shit, I didn't even make the top ten.
With a BA/ BS degree and background in accounting the Federal LE agencies that would line up well in my opinion are the FBI and IRS (Criminal Investigator).
As for pay, once you are a journey level agent and have put your time in pulling a six figure salary is very probable.
The only downside to the FBI is that they are extremely selective on who they hire. A very good friends daughter was hired two years ago and both her resume and educational background were beyond impressive. That agency attracts a lot of the ivy league type candidates because of the prestige and recognition enjoyed by the agency.
The IRS is hiring people constantly.
Other Federal LE agencies will be easier to get into than the FBI and retain just as worthy a mission.
From the description of your work and education background, as others suggested, I would look at FBI, IRS, and Secret Service.
USAJobs is going to be your best search tool. However, you could also contact the local field office of the agency you are most interested in for additional information on the job and recruiting process.
As Grant said, money is not always the most important factor. You have to decide what your priorities are and if dedicating yourself to the service of others in your community is your calling.
Good luck in your search.
P.S. If you are a single guy and don't own your home it is pretty much a given that a FED LE job will result in relocation.
How about forensic accounting in one of the alphabet fed agencies? Use your accounting skills to lock up some banksters or drug dealers or shitbirds funneling money to terrorist groups.
That was what I was going to suggest. My nephew is getting his degree in accounting and is being courted by the FBI.
Grant, it's a tough pill to swallow but I do like $$$...
Working at a Govt job, city, state or fed level, you will probably never make the $$$ of private sector CPA's. In the private sector a fraud investigator for Insurance or securities exchange may make significantly more dollars/hr also..
I'd also strongly recommend taking some computer security or information assurance classes, to go with the accounting/finance.
Holy shit great advice to be found here: if you're looking to do anything other than primarily accounting, this will open doors. It seems odd that so many suggestions revolve around security side of finance, but the remainder of your resume points towards exactly that.
Dammit... anyway...
If you're down with living in NoVA, opportunities get hilariously plentiful. Been looking at residency opportunities for my wife out there, since I'd have to put effort into being unemployed there - as long as you live in MD it won't be the fking Haole experience all over again as far as NFA/CCW stuff.
Thanks Will. The FBI is still pretty in need of accountants for many of the reasons listed in this thread - mainly, that in the private sector they make so much more money. They recruit heavily at my university and no one even bothers talking to them.
If money is an essential issue, not sure why you looking at LE at all then. Senior FBI agents, depending on some factors, can be decent $$ and have excellent benefits, etc. However, it's no unusual for a LEO in a city that pays well to make more when you add in the details and such they do. But they work hard for that $$$.
You don't get into LE to get rich, that's for sure.
Eurodriver
02-28-14, 12:10
If money is an essential issue, not sure why you looking at LE at all then. Senior FBI agents, depending on some factors, can be decent $$ and have excellent benefits, etc. However, it's no unusual for a LEO in a city that pays well to make more when you add in the details and such they do. But they work hard for that $$$.
You don't get into LE to get rich, that's for sure.
Never said money is an essential issue and in my OP I said a local S.O. makes 45k starting and I'm good with that.
I am saying the reason the FBI has a tough time filling all of its needs for accountants is because most accountants want to make it rain.
Apricotshot
02-28-14, 13:19
The agents I work with are for the most part GS12 and 13's. Too bad we are in a hiring freeze for the forseeable future. We are going to hire Enforcement Officers (1801s) in the St. Pete Divisional Office. Might want to look at that. PM me if you want more info.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.5 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.