View Full Version : 300 Win Mag: Reloading for a New Rifle
I have a 300 Win Mag enroute, and it should be here by the middle of next week. It is a Remington 700 "Long Range," with a 26", 1-10 twist, heavy barrel in a Bell and Carlson M40 stock.
It may be a while before I get it up and shooting, but I'm anxious to begin procuring supplies for reloading. I don't plan to run any factory ammo through this rifle; it simply costs too much to buy good stuff.
1. Reloading Dies
I was considering the Forster Neck Sizing Die and Benchrest Seating Die (http://www.forsterproducts.com/catalog.asp?prodid=700495&showprevnext=1). Please make recommendations concerning neck sizing vs. full-length for this cartridge, and die brand/style.
2. Brass
There is not a lot of availability in this regard. I have found some Norma in stock, but it is $1.40 per piece, which seems high, and that may be the reason that it is in stock. If anyone knows of a source for more affordable, new brass, please advise. The other option is to find some once fired brass, which I have also done. That source has FC '12 brass for $0.60 or $0.70 per piece, depending on quantity. I suppose that another option would be to buy factory ammo and shoot that to sight in, lay copper in the new barrel, etc., and then reload the brass. It is possible to find 300 Win Mag ammo in the $1.25-$1.50 per round price range. This seems like a waste of range time to me, but it is an option. I would prefer to find a more affordable source for new brass, if anyone has a source. I would also be glad to buy some once-fired brass from a M4C forum member- in that case shoot me a pm.
3. Projectiles
Considering the 208gr. AMax, the 210gr. Berger VLD, the 215gr. Berger Hybrid, or one of Sierra's heavier MatchKing offerings. My intent is to shoot targets at up to 800m., and to possibly hunt whitetail or elk at some point in the future. I have heard that the 210gr. Bergers are quite sensitive on seating depth. This is something that I have never worked with before on my AR, but I'm not opposed to fiddling with it and learning something new.
4. Primers/Powder
I don't really know where to start here. Winchester, Remington, and Federal are available locally. I shoot Remington 7.5s in my .223, but the 300 Win Mag is a new gig for me.
H1000 seems to be a go-to for powder for this cartridge. I have a local source for this as well, for as long as he can keep getting it. Some reloaders have also mentioned H4831 and Retumbo.
Thanks to everyone for your recommendations. Feel free to add anything I have overlooked.
Neck sizing is good if only used in one gun and or benchrest. Its not recommend when used for dangerous game as needing faster follow up shots. (From Old times/ dangerous game hunting) Brass I have just for my 308 "deer rifle" bolt action is only neck sized. I wasn't shooting maximum loads and easily getting 5-6 loading before needing trimmed. I started with 180 federal cases could work up loads at range. I'm just neck sizing if it's for a low volume shooter the cases are fire formed for the rifle why force the brass back to be reformed on firing. I think it will lead to more work hardening of brass meaning shorter useful life. If the ammo is for a semi auto or if multiple rifles in that caliber I'll full length size. I'm only neck sizing my 30-06 and 300 Win Mag cases for a T C Encore, no need to resize other than the neck to hold bullet.
I don't have a recommendation for powder or bullets I try to get one's that cover multiple caliber reloading. I stay in lighter weight bullets east of Mississippi river game :( no antelope, bears or moose. Much less a shot at 400-500 yards.
ICANHITHIMMAN
03-01-14, 18:29
You have put some thought into this but you never once stated the use for the load?
You have put some thought into this but you never once stated the use for the load?
It has been my desire to purchase a Magnum bolt gun for approximately 10 years, so I've had some time to think about it.
Under #3, Projectiles, I wrote that my intended use for the load is "to shoot targets at up to 800m., and to possibly hunt whitetail or elk at some point in the future." I'm not sure what other information about my use I can include. Targets will be a mix of paper and steel. The whitetail around here are medium-sized; not like the giant Illinois/Indiana deer, and not as small as the eastern deer.
I thought that putting the intended use with the bullet choice was most fitting, but maybe I should have written it at the beginning with the rifle description. Thanks for reading and replying.
Buy the NORMA Brass. It's worth it. RWS is good brass too. It's more robust, but not as nice as Norma.... yet still 100 times better than factory WIN/Rem etc.
I full length size every piece, every time. In order to get the max loadings out of nice 300 brass, you'll also need the Larry Willis Collet die that squeezes the brass back down by the belt. Otherwise, you'll get only 3-5 loadings (depending) and then the brass won't chamber anymore.
I run the Lee Collet neck sizing die after all of that. It produces ZERO runout at the neck. Those lee dies are a little high maintenance, but they're cheap and they work friggin good.
I load 200 gr Accubonds for Pappabear's hunting ammo, and 208 Amax for Long range target shooting. We've had the best luck with H1000 and WLR Primers. WLR primers shot better than Magnum primers.
I seat bullets using LE WILSON chamber seating dies and an Arbor press.
Thanks, Mark. You are a wealth of information.
Do you use the Willis collet die every time, or is that dependent on brass quality and loading pressure?
Is the Lee collet neck sizer only for insurance against run out?
The Larry Willis die has a guage on the top. You stick your brass in the top and if it wont seat to the belt, it needs a squeeze. It's a brilliant die, and a must have for a belted mag reloader. Incidentally it works for 338 Win Mag, 7mm Mag, etc. They're all the same at the belt. With the guage on the die, you only need to run the brass that's bulging.... instead of ALL the brass.
The Lee Collet neck die is for squeezing the neck down. It just happens to be the ONLY die I've had great luck with. I messed with bushing dies and everything.... so much inconsistency and frustration with those damned things.
With the LEE Collet, you need to polish the collet shoulder and grease it if to keep it from locking up if you run it a lot. Again... it's a little maintenance intensive... but well worth it. I run that die for .308 too. Also, there's no case lube needed for this die. I run the brass through the die and prime it at the same time.
Do you have a preferred full length die? I'm considering the same Forster seater with the full length die instead of the neck die. Do you bump the shoulder to get 1 or 2 thou of head space, or do you push it all the way back to spec?
Thanks for your help.
My sizing die kind of evolved. It's actually a bushing die... just with no bushing installed... effectively a body die. But I got sucked into the bushing nightmare briefly, as I stated earlier.
So if I was starting clean, I'd just buy a 300WM body die. I set up the die so that it just bumped the shoulder back enough to chamber a round. We took a tight fittig piece of brass and incrementally adjusted the die until the brass fit just right.
I'm effectively headspacing off the shoulder instead of the belt, and it seems to work pretty good.
1slow01Z71
03-04-14, 21:25
Im sizing for my third firing of some Winchester brass and its ridiculously hard to run it through my forster FL die. To the point I think Im going to stick a case. Ive FL sized before the initial firing and after the first firing so Im now on the third time of sizing this brass. This is the first belted magnum Ive loaded for so Im still learning a bit. The area right above the belt measures .002-.004 larger than new brass(.504). After the third sizing it still goes right in the chamber with a little resistance but Im puzzled by the resistance Im feeling on the press. Ive never had any case require that much pressure to size it. Even my 458 socom doesn't take that much pressure and it was tough.
I don't have much experience with the lee collet neck die. Ive used their FCDs with success but have only dabbled with the neck die in my 308. Ive read people say the rounded shoulder it gives is normal but it looks weird to me. Lee collet neck die left and rcbs FL die right
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b368/1slow01z71/Loads/20140304_210517_zpsospmll9c.jpg (http://s23.photobucket.com/user/1slow01z71/media/Loads/20140304_210517_zpsospmll9c.jpg.html)
Do you get a rounded looking shoulder on your 308 and 300WM with the collet neck die?
From my reading it seems the key to brass life in the belted magnums is to make them headspace off the shoulder instead of the belt so you don't get case separation right about the belt from the brass stretching so Ive been using the hornady comparator set to bump the shoulders back like I do on my 308 and it worked fine on the last sizing. Im just puzzled as to whether this extra resistance Im feeling is from the die bumping the case wall back in above the belt or if the brass has just expanded a lot and Ive got a loose chamber(R700 5R). I definitely plan to get the willis die, just trying to decide where to go from here die wise. I really like the forster seating die with the floating sleeve and micrometer seating stem. The FL die leaves a bit to be desired with the lock ring that does not have flats for a wrench. Seems like using a body die and a neck die is basically doing a FL die's work in two separate steps. I get less than .002 runout as it is with the forster setup. Just at a loss as to why this brass is so hard to run through the die.
Slow,
Your remarks about the force needed to FL re-size raises the question of what lube I ought to be using for this step and for the Willis collet die. Imperial sizing wax seems to be the most popular for larger cartridges.
That Lee neck collet made the shoulder of the cartridge on the left look as goofy as a rubber crutch! What is going on there?
Agreed. I'm not getting that from my Collet die. My GUESS is you have the die turned down too much so that after the collet jaws have squeezed the neck your press still has travel that's mashing the case. Back the die out an eighth turn or so.
And for your 300, you definitely will need the Larry Willis at some point. Full length sizing won't squeeze the belt area back down. Imperial is what the directions state.
For everything else, I use Dillon Case lube. I don't get any significant resistance when sizing my magnum brass.
1slow01Z71
03-05-14, 07:46
Slow,
Your remarks about the force needed to FL re-size raises the question of what lube I ought to be using for this step and for the Willis collet die. Imperial sizing wax seems to be the most popular for larger cartridges.
That Lee neck collet made the shoulder of the cartridge on the left look as goofy as a rubber crutch! What is going on there?
Figured out what my problem was. It was a combination of a couple of things. First, when my buddy used my dies last he did not tumble his brass before sizing so the die was dirty. Second, my brass was cold from being left out in the garage so once it came back inside it has some moisture on it. Third, I was sizing 100 brass instead of 50 like I normally do for 300wm and I did not spray enough case lube on them. So between those three things I was having problems. Probably any one of those by themselves wouldve been no big deal but combined caused problems.
I cleaned my die, ran a hair dryer over the brass then sprayed them good again with dillon case lube and all was well. I like dillon case lube because it works really well. Ill never do the individual apply method with imperial or roll them on a pad. Thats way too labor intensive especially for mass blasting ammo. I used hornady one ahot for a while which worked well doing the shake and bake method but the dillon case lube spoiled me. You get a small box, toss your brass in there and spray it then shake it around and load. This allows me to lube more cases at once. Now that I know I like the stuff there are tons of recipes to make it at home for pennies on the dollar so its cheaper than any other option. I do stick every 20thish case neck into imperial wax to lube the expander ball.
On the lee neck die, I have no idea what the deal is but I've read from many people that theirs does the same so I dont know. Ive been very happy with my results FL sizing so I havent pursued the neck die route much further. Im still not convinced on the neck sizing with occasionaly body die vs the fl every time crowd. I see merits on both sides so I'm running 100 308 brass to failure with fl sizing then another 100 with neck sizing and a body die to see what works best for me.
On the lee neck die, I have no idea what the deal is but I've read from many people that theirs does the same so I dont know.
The other thing is... the Collet neck dies need to be polished and greased. They collet action will get sticky and damage brass otherwise. I pull mine apart and hit the curve of the outside on the collet jaws and the bevel they squeeze into with 400 grit, and then clean and grease those bearing surfaces.
It's a pain in the ass, but worth the effort.
1slow01Z71
03-05-14, 08:13
The other thing is... the Collet neck dies need to be polished and greased. They collet action will get sticky and damage brass otherwise. I pull mine apart and hit the curve of the outside on the collet jaws and the bevel they squeeze into with 400 grit, and then clean and grease those bearing surfaces.
It's a pain in the ass, but worth the effort.
Do you neck turn your precision loads and if so what tool do you use? I think that's one of my mext investments. I may need to chuck my mandrel up in the drill to get a little more neck tension. IIRC I was only getting about a thousandth of neck tension with the 308 neck die.
Do you neck turn your precision loads and if so what tool do you use? I think that's one of my mext investments. I may need to chuck my mandrel up in the drill to get a little more neck tension. IIRC I was only getting about a thousandth of neck tension with the 308 neck die.
I do not turn necks. I just don't use standard factory brass for 30 cal bolt gun ammo. Neck turning is a whole other world of torture. I'd do it if I felt there was something to gain... but running good brass like Lapua, Norma, and RWS has been good to me.
In 300 WM, we suffered for months trying to get ammo that'd shoot good. It finally started popping when we switched to good brass.
I'd turn my Collet stem down if I were loading for a gas gun. But I've not had any issues for bolt gun ammo. I know what you're saying though.... another thousandth of neck sizing would be just right.
1slow01Z71
03-05-14, 08:40
Ive got 250 norma 300wm brass and 200 lapua 308 brass ready to go but I want to make sure I've got my process nailed down before I bog off into the expensive ass brass. Ive gotten pretty good results imo from the hornady 308 brass and winchester 300wm brass so far. Once I figure out if I want to be part of the fl or neck sizing club I'll probably break out the good stuff. Theres just so dang many opinions out there its hard to read through the bs and figure out what the best way is. Reminds me of reading vehicle tuning threads, everyone has their own opinion and a million different ways to get to the same end result.
If you believe evetything you read on the internet you'd think the regular ole green box rcbs dies are junk but they produce some of the lowest eunout of any of my dies and make some of the most consistent COLs.
1slow01Z71
03-05-14, 08:42
Damn phone double
Yep... I'd suggest loading in small batches of no more than 50 til you find your process. Sounds like you're already thinking that way though.
I'm still worried about your shoulder shape above. Something isn't right.... The idea of the collet is to just hit the neck. All other dimensions on the brass go untouched.
1slow01Z71
03-05-14, 09:20
I believe that bulg is from me not knowing exactly how the die worked. Ive since taken it apart and understand how it works. I was only getting a thousandthish neck tension and though by cranking it down I could get a little more kinda like the FCD die gets more crimp when tightened down. I realize now that neck tension with that die is set by the diameter of the madrel. Reloading has definitely made me have to slow down and think about things. Its been a good lesson in patience for my impatient ass.
Yep. You got it! Those dies are cheap. I may just try spinning the stem down. The thing is... you can you spin the bottom of the stem? It's in the chuck. And you can't chuck the other end because of the shape.
1slow01Z71
03-05-14, 10:24
http://leeprecision.com/custom-undersized-mandrel.html
How much neck tension are you 308 and 300wm neck dies giving you? I might just order some custom madrels.
http://leeprecision.com/custom-undersized-mandrel.html
How much neck tension are you 308 and 300wm neck dies giving you? I might just order some custom madrels.
I'm getting just enough. I really guage off of the feel when seating bullets since measuring neck diameter doesn't give you actual tension. That's more of rough guide.
In fact... I intentionally have not measure it that way so my brain doesn't fixate on the nominal, but I guess I'm right about where you are too.
1slow01Z71
03-05-14, 11:14
I'm getting just enough. I really guage off of the feel when seating bullets since measuring neck diameter doesn't give you actual tension. That's more of rough guide.
In fact... I intentionally have not measure it that way so my brain doesn't fixate on the nominal, but I guess I'm right about where you are too.
How does measuring before and after seating the bullet not give you neck tension? I can definitely say with the neck sized brass it took a lot less effort to seat vs the rcbs and forster dies regardless of what it actually measured. It failed the tabletop press test but as you said we're using these in bolt guns so its not all that important.
How does measuring before and after seating the bullet not give you neck tension?
Tension would not be measured in thousanths. It'd be measure in pounds and/or ounces. The force require to push my bullet from my neck with my amount of bullet to neck contact is NOT going to be the same as yours, for example. Even though we may have the exact .001" of press fit into our necks.
When you have inconsistent necks that haven't been annealed in sevral firings, the neck tension varies greatly. They're all .001" or whatever the case may be.... But they are most certainly not all at the same neck tension.
That, in fact, is the reason I started to anneal. I could feel the varying neck tensions when seating bullets and it was driving me nuts.
Likewise... I think it's the reason that lightly crimping my .223 rounds cuts my group sizes to less than half. Consistent neck tension even though they're all probably at .002-.003"
I have 1 box of Winchester, 1 box of PMC, 2 boxes of FNM, and 15 rounds of Federal .300 Win. Mag. brass for a total of 95 rounds. It is all once fired brass. I will take $50 shipped if you are interested in it.
Alaska3006
04-21-14, 08:20
I have a 300 Win Mag enroute, and it should be here by the middle of next week. It is a Remington 700 "Long Range," with a 26", 1-10 twist, heavy barrel in a Bell and Carlson M40 stock.
It may be a while before I get it up and shooting, but I'm anxious to begin procuring supplies for reloading. I don't plan to run any factory ammo through this rifle; it simply costs too much to buy good stuff.
1. Reloading Dies
I was considering the Forster Neck Sizing Die and Benchrest Seating Die (http://www.forsterproducts.com/catalog.asp?prodid=700495&showprevnext=1). Please make recommendations concerning neck sizing vs. full-length for this cartridge, and die brand/style.
2. Brass
There is not a lot of availability in this regard. I have found some Norma in stock, but it is $1.40 per piece, which seems high, and that may be the reason that it is in stock. If anyone knows of a source for more affordable, new brass, please advise. The other option is to find some once fired brass, which I have also done. That source has FC '12 brass for $0.60 or $0.70 per piece, depending on quantity. I suppose that another option would be to buy factory ammo and shoot that to sight in, lay copper in the new barrel, etc., and then reload the brass. It is possible to find 300 Win Mag ammo in the $1.25-$1.50 per round price range. This seems like a waste of range time to me, but it is an option. I would prefer to find a more affordable source for new brass, if anyone has a source. I would also be glad to buy some once-fired brass from a M4C forum member- in that case shoot me a pm.
3. Projectiles
Considering the 208gr. AMax, the 210gr. Berger VLD, the 215gr. Berger Hybrid, or one of Sierra's heavier MatchKing offerings. My intent is to shoot targets at up to 800m., and to possibly hunt whitetail or elk at some point in the future. I have heard that the 210gr. Bergers are quite sensitive on seating depth. This is something that I have never worked with before on my AR, but I'm not opposed to fiddling with it and learning something new.
4. Primers/Powder
I don't really know where to start here. Winchester, Remington, and Federal are available locally. I shoot Remington 7.5s in my .223, but the 300 Win Mag is a new gig for me.
H1000 seems to be a go-to for powder for this cartridge. I have a local source for this as well, for as long as he can keep getting it. Some reloaders have also mentioned H4831 and Retumbo.
Thanks to everyone for your recommendations. Feel free to add anything I have overlooked.
I shoot a Rem 700 Tactical 5R 26" 300 Win Mag
H1000
76.0 with 220 Sierra MK
75.0 with 230 Berger OTM (Favorite)
Fed 215GM
FC 09 Brass
Note be careful with FC 12 brass very hot load so primer pockets are very loose on most fired brass
Alaska3006
04-21-14, 08:24
I shoot a Rem 700 Tactical 5R 26" 300 Win Mag
H1000
76.0 with 220 Sierra MK
75.0 with 230 Berger OTM (Favorite)
Fed 215GM
FC 09 Brass
Note be careful with FC 12 that used 220 MK brass very hot load so primer pockets are very loose on most fired brass
Suggest stick with miltary brass like FC 09 that used the 190 MK not as hot and easier on brass.
Alaska3006
05-11-14, 11:55
I use Hornady Dies.........really like the bullet seater die.
While I never loaded 300 mag I have done 300 Weatherby mag . The finest quality brass should be the cheapest in the long run.
Localgrizzly
05-12-14, 14:29
My .300 is a custom build on a Remington 40XB action. I use Redding dies, neck sizing only.
I seat .005 off of the rifling measured with a Sinclair comparator.
For primers, I've had my best resullts with Remington 9 1/2M. Reloader #19 powder and 180 grain SMK bullets.
Since this rifle was built for accuracy, I shoot five shot groups rather than three shot, and shoot groups at 300 yards. My five shot groups will give me 2 1/8 inches at 300 yards. (average of five, five shot groups.)
Back in the days when I was young enough to carry a 12 lb rifle up and down the mountain all day, I switched out Sierra Game Kings for the match Kings for hunting.
IME, my Redding Ultramag press and Redding match dies will turn out ammo accurate enough for anything other than formal BR competition.
Thanks for all the replies, guys. I'm in the middle of final exams right now and I have been too busy to get out and shoot this rifle yet (and too busy to check the forums!). I should have some load data and range reports in the next couple of weeks. Stay tuned for the results if you are interested.
You should have sent the gun our way. We could have put a lot of throat erosion in your barrel while you were studying the liberal arts! :sarcastic:
Very funny... About sending you the rifle AND about being a non-traditional (read "old") student! It is great fun, especially being surrounded by 18-20 year-old slackers at a university. I finished the bachelor's degree last spring.
What a comedian...
You frat boys..... :sarcastic:
Well, I have fired a grand total of 2 rounds. The good news is that my eyeball bore sighting job was off by only 2 inches at 50yds. The bad news is that it probably doesn't matter because the rifle has a screwed up chamber (see pictures). I'm rather disappointed, and not sure where to turn. I know that I could send it to Remington, but I really want to shoot this summer. If big green gets their mitts on my rifle, I probably won't see it for several months. I'd rather take it to a local gunsmith to hone the chamber, even if it costs me. Problem there is that I don't personally know of any local, competent smiths. The last thing I want for this rifle right now is a wallered out chamber and a voided warranty. I'm in West Michigan if anyone has a suggestion for a gunsmith.
I guess I'm an idiot because I cant get pictures to upload. Here's the deal. I loaded up one round each of 208 Amax, WLRM primer, Win Brass, Hodgdon H1000 at 73 and 74 grains. Fired first round, case stuck in chamber, but a firm tug broke it free. Interesting. Thoroughly clean chamber and bore. No pressure sign on brass, but there were some slight markings about .385" up on the case wall from the face of the case. I thought I had maybe gotten some junk in there with my cartridge when I loaded the rifle. I shot the 74gr load this morning. This one really stuck in there. I the extractor removed a small piece of brass from the rim of the case and I had to bump the case free with a cleaning rod from the muzzle. This case has much deeper indentations; no doubt, the higher chamber pressure transferred the features of the jacked up chamber onto the brass much more clearly, but I can see that they are an exact replica of the markings on the first case. There is a ridge inside the chamber, approximately .166 from the cut for the belt. This ridge runs about 320* of the chamber. It looks almost like they used a chipped chamber ream at the factory. Hopefully an in-spec chamber ream could clean it up.
Damn. That sucks. Hopefully someone knows a guy in your area. Post this in the Bolt gun precision forum maybe... to get more eyes on your search for a bolt guy.
We get loads that would jam in our 300's and it would be confusing. Make sure your using good brass , Norma. Buy one box to figure your load and give yourself the confidence the gun will shoot.
Then you can mess with other brass.
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