Difference between Wylde and CLE Match?

[Trumpet]

Hey there,
I'm contemplating a Douglas SS SPR barrel (or WOA or Nordic) for my upper and one of the choices is between a CLE match or Wylde Chamber. What's the difference?

Thanks

[SWThomas]

The way I understand it is that Frank's proprietary chamber is a tighter 5.56 chamber. While the Wylde is a 223. I went with the match on the Douglas I bought from them. I haven't assembled the rifle yet so I have no input on performance.

[bp7178]

I don't think that's an accurate way of explaining it. Both are a type of 5.56 chamber. The CLE will have a shorter freebore and the throat angle is different.

http://www.ar15barrels.com/data/223-556.pdf

I spoke with CLE about the differences a while back when I bought my Bartlien SPR barrel from them. I ended up going with the CLE match with a matched headspaced bolt.

[Steel head]

I don't think that's an accurate way of explaining it. Both are a type of 5.56 chamber. The CLE will have a shorter freebore and the throat angle is different.

http://www.ar15barrels.com/data/223-556.pdf

I spoke with CLE about the differences a while back when I bought my Bartlien SPR barrel from them. I ended up going with the CLE match with a matched headspaced bolt.

From what I could find this is the case..

I don't suppose you could give me some measurement from a fired case from the CLE could you?

[bp7178]

I stopped collecting my brass when I stopped reloading. Was just way too time consuming.

It will be awhile before I can get to the range as I'm waiting on a new scope for that rifle. I do still have an RCBS precision mic. I'd have to look at my reloading notes to see how the fired brass would compare between the CLE Match and a Noveske chamber. I know my Noveske was on the higher end of the headspace range though.

[taliv]

the CLE match is a 1 degree instead of nato standard 3 degree. wylde has a longer leade and handles the pressure better.

[sinister]

the CLE match is a 1 degree instead of nato standard 3 degree. wylde has a longer leade and handles the pressure better.

Correct. Frank's leade is particularly well-suited to rapid-fire and "Rattle Battle" loads using shorter-seated bullets -- which means the rifles may tend to shoot better a little longer (starting with a short throat).

For an 80-grain Sierra Match King you'll tend to seat bullets around 2.44, while a Wylde will be around 2.45. GI (Colt and USAMU) is around 2.500 inches cartridge overall length.

[taliv]

well i confess i didn't have that memorized. :) by total coincidence i ordered a krieger SPR barrel from them about an hour before i saw this thread, to replace the abysmal no-shootin barrels for this project https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?129224-latest-AR-build&p=1747295#post1747295 i should know in 2 weeks if the problem is the barrel or something in the rifle.

i quizzed them on the differences and of course selected the CLE even though all my other AR barrels are wylde. my reasoning was, for what i'm paying for the krieger, i'm not going to be dumping factory NATO ammo through it.

[opsoff1]

The CLE chamber has a 1 deg 50 min leade angle. The 556 NATO uses a 1 deg 20 min leade.
Virtually indistinguishable.
The SAAMI spec 223 REM uses a 3 deg 10 min leade.
Bill Wylde's chamber uses a 1 deg 25 min leade.

Most "match" chmabers use leade angles in the 1 -1/2 deg (1 deg 30 min) vicinity.

Additionally free bore lengths of the said chambers vary wildly;
to wit:
223 Wylde .0619"
CLE .025
556 NATO .0566


I'm looking at the prints as I type this.

[taliv]

hmm...

looks like i was misinformed a bit

http://i308.photobucket.com/albums/kk335/Evil_Lurker_photos/223chamberspecs.jpg

[opsoff1]

hmm...

looks like i was misinformed a bit

http://i308.photobucket.com/albums/kk335/Evil_Lurker_photos/223chamberspecs.jpg

The picture wouldn't display - what was it?

[taliv]

randall's chart of dimensions PTG, clymer and JGS reamers for rem match, 223 rem, wylde, CLE, 556nato

[opsoff1]

]I can't see the pic, and I am not sure who Randall is - but I will tell you this - I was looking at the reamer prints that were provided by the manufacturer (i.e. Clymer, JGS, PTG & Henricksen) I use the prints to verify reamer dimensions and design characteristics for specific applications. Guessing that the numbers you saw may have gotten mixed up somehow.

Attached is a .308 print from JGS - just for illustrative purposes. I happened to have this at work for another reason.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]24308[/ATTACH

[bp7178]

The CLE chamber has a 1 deg 50 min leade angle. The 556 NATO uses a 1 deg 20 min leade.
Virtually indistinguishable.
The SAAMI spec 223 REM uses a 3 deg 10 min leade.
Bill Wylde's chamber uses a 1 deg 25 min leade.

Most "match" chmabers use leade angles in the 1 -1/2 deg (1 deg 30 min) vicinity.

Additionally free bore lengths of the said chambers vary wildly;
to wit:
223 Wylde .0619"
CLE .025
556 NATO .0566


I'm looking at the prints as I type this.

Those are the exact same numbers from the chart that I linked in post #3 of this thread.

I don't get what the confusion is all about.