Are all Mini red dot sights durable for slide mounted use? [Archive]

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patriot_man

03-03-14, 04:20

Hello everyone,

I have a question regarding slide mounted red dots.

I've heard a year ago that there was a problem with slide mounting Trijicon RMRs a while back but is this problem resolved now?

Are there certain models I should avoid for mounting on a slide?

Do the Insight MRDS hold up well? I can get one for a decent price over a Trijicon so that is potentially the option I will go with.

Thanks.

Failure2Stop

03-03-14, 07:33

The RMR, T1, and DeltaPoint have the best track records.
T1 has had some issues with decreased slide velocity, seems to be a bigger issue with cheap practice/bulk ammo than duty ammo.
The DeltaPoint 2 is supposed to be coming out by this summer.

eaboecke

03-03-14, 07:52

I have a rmr and an insight mrd. The rmr is 10x better then the Mimi mrd. The rmr is on my daily carry glock. The mini mrd is on a Hunting shotgun. The rmr I trust. The mrd not so much.

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discreet

03-03-14, 10:23

eaboecke

03-03-14, 12:45

The batteries don't last as long. I saw too many stop working mounted on top of ACOGs in AFG and it, this is subjective, it doesn't feel as durable or as we'll made.

Personally I would happily pay the premium for the RMR.

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bikerdog

03-03-14, 16:08

Slide mounted red dots take a hell of a beating. Because of that there aren’t many red dots that will hold up to the abuse. Some would even argue that none of the red dots will hold up over time to the abuse. The top 3 are the aimpoint micro, the trijicon rmr, and the leupold deltapoint. I personally feel that none of the others are even worth considering and if you buy one of the cheap red dots you will be replacing it very soon after installing it.

patriot_man

03-03-14, 16:52

bikerdog

03-03-14, 16:59

Thanks for the input guys.

I definitely won't be running an Aimpoint, I gave it some thought beforehand but I did expect slide velocity to be effected and the size is too large.

Is there a particular model of RMR that works best? Dual illuminated, LED or adjustable LED?

I haven't given the Luepold Delta Point a look, thanks for the suggestion. I'll take a closer look.

I've run all three types of RMR's and found I like the 6.5 MOA dot rmr02 the best. The adjustable RMR's look great on paper but in reality they kinda suck. And the dual illuminated can wash out under certain circumstances.

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CFII

03-03-14, 20:15

I havent had any issues running a T1 on my Glock 22. The main ammo I use for range is Blazer and Atlanta Arms reloads.

TurretGunner

03-04-14, 06:41

Gieselle has a Frame mount coming out soon. That is where I would look.

I belive LAV also talked about the issues with a slide mounted red dot. Too much abuse and harder for follow up shots and tracking based on the sight moving.

Adam_s

03-04-14, 07:41

I've run both the Dual Illuminated RMR, as well as the fixed LED version (both the 3.25 & 6.5MOA model). From my use, the dual illume version has issues with dot bloom under bright light (sunny spring/summer day at the range, etc), and also washout issues when being used with a weapon mounted light in low/no light situations.

The fixed LED version I've had no such issues with. I've gotten so I prefer the smaller 3.25moa dot, as opposed to the larger one. However, both are outstanding, and I've had no issues with either.

Certain users have seen issues with older RMR's having their windage adjuster start to wander under heavy firing schedules. The easy preventative step for this is to zero the optic, witness mark the zero location, and then put a layer of clear nail polish over that, to help "lock in" the adjuster. That being said, I've not had that happen with my particular optics, and not seen it reported in a long while.

The Adjustable RMR's originally were failing due to recoil impulse when being used on handguns. However, the newer versions (denoted by 6 digit serial numbers), have been reported to be running well by users who shoot heavily. The benefit to the adjustable LED over the fixed LED is that in some low/no light situations with exceedingly bright illumination being projected on the target, the dot will still wash out (not as bad as the dual illume, but still). That being said, I've not seen this to be an issue from MY use.

tonyxcom

03-04-14, 13:22

harder for follow up shots and tracking based on the sight moving.

I am still having a hard time understanding this. Assuming both MRDS's are the same on a slide vs frame mount, how is the frame mounted one easier to track? The frame mounted red dot is still moving with the bore under recoil. By the time you are getting your sight picture back the gun is well into battery so it should make no difference if the MRDS is moving with the slide.

If frame mounted sighting systems were faster than slide mounted systems, wouldn't we be seeing frame mounted iron sights by now?

Or is what is actually going on here that you typically see C-More sights frame mounted which have larger glass making it easier to pick the dot back up. This makes a lot more sense to me as you don't have size/weight concerns with frame mounted sights.

TurretGunner

03-05-14, 14:10

Beacuse the MRD/OPTIC is being violenty taken for a ride each shot. It is also beating the optic to shit unnessisarily.

There is a reason FRAME mounted optics have been a mainstay in the competitve circut for over 20 years.

tonyxcom

03-05-14, 14:26

I am not talking about the durability of the MRDS. I am talking about follow up shots.

The reason frame mounted optics have been a mainstay in competitive shooting for the past several decades is because of the size and durability of the optics that have been available. I don't imagine you could slide mount most C-More sights.

If you frame mount and slide mount an RMR to the same gun, how is the follow up shot better on a frame mounted gun?

TurretGunner

03-05-14, 14:34

LAV and a few others have already addressed this, as I said in an earlier post.

tonyxcom

03-05-14, 14:47

It's perfectly OK to just say you don't know.

I am asking HOW and WHY is a frame mounted sight easier for follow up shots? The reason I am asking this is because the frame mounted gun still recoils like the slide mounted one, and by the time you are requiring your sight picture for a follow up shot both guns are already well into battery - so the sight is in exactly the same place it was when you took your first shot.

I can totally understand how a frame mounted C-more is faster than a slide mounted RMR and maybe LAV's comments were taken out of context, but I fail to see how a frame mounted RMR is faster than a slide mounted RMR, which most posts tend to imply when comparing both setups.

patriot_man

03-06-14, 19:22

Just a heads up, saw this on Soldier Systems. A study on handgun irons vs MRDS done by Norwich University

http://soldiersystems.net/blog1/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/2011_Norwich_Study_RMRvIronSights.pdf

In the end they found the RMR to have a small advantage over irons.

MegademiC

03-06-14, 21:17

MegademiC

03-06-14, 21:23

both guns are already well into battery

I don't know as I don't have an rds on my handgun, but what does that quote mean? It's either in battery or not. You want to track your sights and if the gun recoils up and it's a slide mounted rds, it's dropping in your fov. The dots will be pointing in the same place, but the position of your eyes relative to the rds will be different. Idk if this will make a difference, but I'd imagine it would st least for some ppl.

tonyxcom

03-06-14, 21:26

I think the further out you go, the more the apparent the MRDS's advantages are.

tonyxcom

03-06-14, 21:30

I don't know as I don't have an rds on my handgun, but what does that quote mean? It's either in battery or not. You want to track your sights and if the gun recoils up and it's a slide mounted rds, it's dropping in your fov. The dots will be pointing in the same place, but the position of your eyes relative to the rds will be different. Idk if this will make a difference, but I'd imagine it would st least for some ppl.

It means that every time your eyes are picking up the red dot, the gun is in battery. Meaning the movement of the red dot back and forth on the slide has already happened and should have no affect on your ability to pick up the red dot for your next shot. You will lose the red dot during recoil on both slide and frame mounted setups.

So... having only shot my slide mounted RMR, I am having a hard time understanding how a frame mounted RMR would be easier to track.

bikerdog

03-06-14, 22:37

It means that every time your eyes are picking up the red dot, the gun is in battery. Meaning the movement of the red dot back and forth on the slide has already happened and should have no affect on your ability to pick up the red dot for your next shot. You will lose the red dot during recoil on both slide and frame mounted setups.

So... having only shot my slide mounted RMR, I am having a hard time understanding how a frame mounted RMR would be easier to track.

having shot both slide and frame mounted red dots I found this to be BS. you loose the dot no matter what and have to require. If you have a proper stance and grip you will not notice a difference.

SpeedRacer

03-06-14, 22:56

Even if a frame mounted optic was faster, I don't think it would fit in my pants. YMMV. :D

TiroFijo

03-07-14, 05:55

See my comments, and some others on this topic, here:

http://modernserviceweapons.com/?p=6503

Short version, for my use I don't need a MRDS.

patriot_man

03-07-14, 15:54

Thanks for the link.

I feel I've gotten to the point where I'm proficient enough with my Glock 19 up to 25 yards. This is why I've been considering a RDS because I was under the impression that first shot and all consecutive shots could be faster than irons however reading that 1st shots are slower is definitely interesting and something I would consider.

Is there an issue with parallax for mini red dots? I notice that in the article Hilton Yam talks about misalignment of sights but if a MRDS is parallax free shouldn't you be able to take the shot as long as the dot is on target?