View Full Version : Franz und Charlie. Story of a very moral WW2 Luftwaffe pilot.
This story may not strike many as much and as huge a devotee of this era as I am this story still escaped me until today... A crippled B-17 escorted to safety by a German Me109.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_8EkmyoG83Q&feature=youtube_gdata_player
I have two loves besides firearms. The study of the European side of WW2 and aviation. Also my grandfather was a ball turret gunner on a B-24 in the ETO. Considering what could have happened,post op, to the German pilot says alot about the man. Not to mention he risked being torn up by the vast supply of M2 Brownings on board the Flying Fortress.
-Jax
Your link appears not to function properly.
Thanks HKGuns,
That's what I get for posting from my Kindle. Hopefully its fixed now. :)
-Jax
Yes it works now. Thanks for fixing, sounds like a good story.
Things like this are more common than people realize.
Ambrose wrote about a German soldier who climbed out of the safety of his foxhole to grab a US soldier from the middle of the road who had been wounded and pulled him to safety.
When American forces later arrived they asked the German what he was doing and he replied "He was calling for help so I helped him."
This is the worst thing about wars, that eventually good people have to fight good people. But thankfully that isn't always the case.
Not every fighter pilot would have seen a limping bomber in the same context as a parachute.
Things like this are more common than people realize.
Ambrose wrote about a German soldier who climbed out of the safety of his foxhole to grab a US soldier from the middle of the road who had been wounded and pulled him to safety.
When American forces later arrived they asked the German what he was doing and he replied "He was calling for help so I helped him."
This is the worst thing about wars, that eventually good people have to fight good people. But thankfully that isn't always the case.
Not every fighter pilot would have seen a limping bomber in the same context as a parachute.
Steyr,
What Ambrose book is that? Haven't read that one yet. I do know there is a memorial in Germany to a Lieutenant in the Wehrmacht who lost his life saving a wounded 4th I.D. soldier from a mine field during the battle of the Hurtgen forest.
-Jax
Steyr,
What Ambrose book is that? Haven't read that one yet. I do know there is a memorial in Germany to a Lieutenant in the Wehrmacht who lost his life saving a wounded 4th I.D. soldier from a mine field during the battle of the Hurtgen forest.
-Jax
It's either "To America" or "Citizen Soldiers."
It's either "To America" or "Citizen Soldiers."
I've read both, albeit some time ago, but I don't remember that being in Citizen Soldiers. I think it was in To America.
Both great books.
gunrunner505
03-04-14, 18:27
I have this book in the pile waiting to get read. A very compelling story.
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I have this book in the pile waiting to get read. A very compelling story.
Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk
Stories like this are just intriguing to me. The media mainly focuses on the atrocities (and there were many honestly) of forces such as the branches of the Waffen SS yet many German forces were very human. I honestly do much of my studies on the Russian-German side of the war and honestly ask myself who was worse. Yes the Germans had the Einsatzgruppen SS but there are reports of as much as 2 million German women being raped by Russian soldiers.
-Jax
Cagemonkey
03-04-14, 18:49
Great story and history. Old school chivalry. Thanks Jax
Great story and history. Old school chivalry. Thanks Jax
Old school chivalry seemed to be a repeating theme in the air over Europe in World War 2.
-Jax
gunrunner505
03-04-14, 19:02
Stories like this are just intriguing to me. The media mainly focuses on the atrocities (and there were many honestly) of forces such as the branches of the Waffen SS yet many German forces were very human. I honestly do much of my studies on the Russian-German side of the war and honestly ask myself who was worse. Yes the Germans had the Einsatzgruppen SS but there are reports of as much as 2 million German women being raped by Russian soldiers.
-Jax
There are certainly atrocities committed by all sides. And some worse than others. The Russian "vengeance" on Germany was quite the thing.
Stories like the one here help to restore your faith in humanity. At a time when the entire world went mad and young men were trained and expected to destroy the enemy at every opportunity without hesitation there were times when these men did something like this just to feel human again. Even for a little while...
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Cagemonkey
03-04-14, 19:07
Old school chivalry seemed to be a repeating theme in the air over Europe in World War 2.
-JaxOn the Western Front yes. On the Eastern Front, not so much. The Luftwaffe and Kriegsmarine were less NAZIfied. Eric Hartmann and Gunther Rall were some class acts.
Cagemonkey
03-04-14, 19:09
There are certainly atrocities committed by all sides. And some worse than others. The Russian "vengeance" on Germany was quite the thing.
Stories like the one here help to restore your faith in humanity. At a time when the entire world went mad and young men were trained and expected to destroy the enemy at every opportunity without hesitation there were times when these men did something like this just to feel human again. Even for a little while...
Sent from my SCH-I605 using TapatalkWell Said.
On the Western Front yes. On the Eastern Front, not so much. The Luftwaffe and Kriegsmarine were less NAZIfied. Eric Hartmann and Gunther Rall were some class acts.
Just watched another interview today with Gunther Rall concerning the FW190. Yeah, heck of a man.
-Jax
gunrunner505
03-04-14, 19:23
On the Western Front yes. On the Eastern Front, not so much. The Luftwaffe and Kriegsmarine were less NAZIfied. Eric Hartmann and Gunther Rall were some class acts.
Rall was first class for sure.
I would like to get his book but the ones I've seen available were big money.
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SeriousStudent
03-04-14, 23:03
I have "A Higher Call" and "The German Aces Speak". Both are excellent books.
The Luftwaffe and Kriegsmarine were less NAZIfied.
Completely wrong. The Luftwaffe was the MOST Nazified.
Old school chivalry seemed to be a repeating theme in the air over Europe in World War 2.
-Jax
There is a lot of misinformation about aviators meeting in combat. It was not unheard of for aviators to let a wounded bird get away after it was clear that it was out of the fight during WWI because the people (mainly) fighting in British and German forces were old school knights, royalty, and Officers of noble lineage. There was supposed to be a code of honor amongst pilots which was sometimes broken. The Red Baron (2008) was a good example of this. It continued through WW2 because each pilot could see themselves in their targets eyes and I believe that everyone here would feel the same way staring down a gunsight. It is extremely hard to kill a human being unless it is an immediate circumstance and even then it can creep up after the fact.
sandman99and9
03-05-14, 10:25
If you like the WW2 books here is one on the German tank aces of the war.
http://www.amazon.com/Panzer-Aces-III-Commanders-Stackpole/dp/0811706540
Some of these guys were just damned good tankers !!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_World_War_II_Panzer_aces_from_Germany
Kurt Knispel had 168 kills and could have claimed about 20-30 more but he was not looking for glory or stats. Was recommended for the knights cross 4 times but did not get it. He evidently was kind of a maverick and not a model Nazi soldier. Longer hair, Goatee, and a couple of clashes with officers may have prevented him from getting the Knights cross.
He had a tank kill on a Russian T-34 at 3000 yards, That is a hell of a shot for back then !!
S.M.
Cagemonkey
03-05-14, 19:05
If you like the WW2 books here is one on the German tank aces of the war.
http://www.amazon.com/Panzer-Aces-III-Commanders-Stackpole/dp/0811706540
Some of these guys were just damned good tankers !!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_World_War_II_Panzer_aces_from_Germany
Kurt Knispel had 168 kills and could have claimed about 20-30 more but he was not looking for glory or stats. Was recommended for the knights cross 4 times but did not get it. He evidently was kind of a maverick and not a model Nazi soldier. Longer hair, Goatee, and a couple of clashes with officers may have prevented him from getting the Knights cross.
He had a tank kill on a Russian T-34 at 3000 yards, That is a hell of a shot for back then !!
S.M.
I love stuff like that, especially since I never heard of Knispel. Thanks for the info.
Cagemonkey
03-05-14, 19:08
Completely wrong. The Luftwaffe was the MOST Nazified.Interesting. I'm all ears.
Interesting. I'm all ears.
You can do the research on your own. It's highly rewarding.
The Luftwaffe's (created in 1935) leadership was completely put into place during the Nazi era, unlike the Heer or Imperial Navy/Reichsmarine/Kriegsmarine (used under Wilhelm I as a unifier for the new German state). This allowed NSDAP members to control the entire organization, unlike other divisions in the Wehrmacht which had traditional non-NSDAP inertia to counteract it.
It's pretty well known how troublesome the Heer leadership was to the NSDAP.
You can do the research on your own. It's highly rewarding.
The Luftwaffe's (created in 1935) leadership was completely put into place during the Nazi era, unlike the Heer or Imperial Navy/Reichsmarine/Kriegsmarine (used under Wilhelm I as a unifier for the new German state). This allowed NSDAP members to control the entire organization, unlike other divisions in the Wehrmacht which had traditional non-NSDAP inertia to counteract it.
It's pretty well known how troublesome the Heer leadership was to the NSDAP.
Even though I know of a few examples of non NSDAP pilots and many today swear that NSDAP membership was looked down upon at the time, the fact is the Luftwaffe was developed from the NSFK which was basically a "flying" HJ so they had a serious NSDAP base and influence.
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