View Full Version : New: Walther CCP
jdavis6576
03-06-14, 09:30
Apparently Walther is preparing to release a new single stack 9mm, the CCP. Looks very interesting. Not sure if it would replace my Shield but can't see purchasing the Remington R51 now.
http://www.carl-walther.de/cw.php?lang=en&content=products&sub=2&subsub=22&product=1975
http://www.mrcolionnoir.com/news/new-gun-alert-walther-ccp/#more-3942
Definitely looks interesting...
Here's hoping that the range gets one in so I can put some test rounds through it. Walters have been hit or miss for me.
There’s a lot to like here, especially if it the trigger is as good as the one on the PPQ. The overall size looks to be about the same as the G42, but it’s a 9mm. I REALLY like the fact that it takes sights that are already at least somewhat on the market. Not sure about the ramifications of the gas system, but it’s not a detractor in my book—yet.
Okie John
Whats with manual thumb safeties on these guns coming out?
Would be interested to see side by side with the Shield and PM9. I can tell its larger than the PM9, but could it be smaller than the shield?
The description makes it seem gas operated? Is this other people take away from the description?
Yep...that thing appears to be a blowback design...Its 1.18 inches thick so...overly bloated for that market just like the PPQ.
I like the safety for carrying condition 1, but I wish the slide release was bigger than that. I love the PPQ and HK sized slide releases. If someone would just make the p30s with the PPQ trigger I would be happy.
Also, if the PPQ is any indication it's going to be a while before we see a large number of holster options for this.
I had to google the "gas delayed" system too. Here's what wiki says on it
Gas delayed
Gas-delayed blowback should not be confused with gas-operated. The bolt is never locked, and so is pushed rearward by the expanding propellant gases as in other blowback-based designs. However, propellant gases are vented from the barrel into a cylinder with a piston that delays the opening of the bolt. It was used by some World War II German designs for the 7.92×33mm Kurz cartridge, including the Volkssturmgewehr 1-5 rifle (with little effectiveness) and the Grossfuss Sturmgewehr (with slightly more efficiency),[18] and after the war by the Heckler & Koch P7, Steyr GB and M-77B pistols.
warpedcamshaft
03-06-14, 10:47
overly bloated for that market just like the PPQ.
Please explain...
propellant gases are vented from the barrel into a cylinder with a piston that delays the opening of the bolt
I'd be fascinated to see a flash animation or a cut away of that. My PPQ is a little snappy, would have been interesting if they worked this technology into that one.
mkmckinley
03-06-14, 11:19
Didn't the HK P7 have a similar gas delayed blowback system?
I have to admit I don't see the appeal of these single stack guns. They're slightly smaller than the double stack versions but only hold half the rounds.
I'd be fascinated to see a flash animation or a cut away of that. My PPQ is a little snappy, would have been interesting if they worked this technology into that one.
This is the HK P7 delayed blowback. It's interesting that in a compact gun they would sacrifice precious space by adding a second chamber to delay the blowback action.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/26/P7_Gas-DelayBBack.PNG
There’s a lot to like here, especially if it the trigger is as good as the one on the PPQ. The overall size looks to be about the same as the G42, but it’s a 9mm. I REALLY like the fact that it takes sights that are already at least somewhat on the market. Not sure about the ramifications of the gas system, but it’s not a detractor in my book—yet.
Okie John
Significantly larger than a G42.
G42: 5.94x4.13x0.94
CCP: 6.42x5.12x1.18
The dimensions of the CCP are nearly identical to a G26 with a G19 length grip: 6.41x4.99x1.18
The manual safety is kind of a bummer, but the pistol itself is intriguing. Pre-cocked striker with 5.5 lb pull sounds like the PPQ's QA trigger. Very interested to see this pistol.
http://www.ammoland.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/WALTHER-CCP-Compact-Pistol.jpg
Significantly larger than a G42.
G42: 5.94x4.13x0.94
CCP: 6.42x5.12x1.18
The dimensions of the CCP are nearly identical to a G26 with a G19 length grip: 6.41x4.99x1.18
I think the PPS is better compared to the G42.
Just realized the CCP is just a striker fired PK380 in 9mm with a slide release. It's even blowback, just modified for 9x19 by adding the delayed blowback chamber.
CCP------6.42x5.12x1.18
PK380---6.69x5.12x1.18
I would bet the measured length difference is due to the PK380's hammer
Please explain...
For pistols competing in the single stack sub compact realm, i really believe the gun should be as thin as possible. Why choose an 8 round Walther when i could have a 1.18 inch thick G19?
Sure, overall grip length will definitely help conceal the gun but its NOT that much smaller than a G19.
The PPQ is also abnormally thick comparatively speaking.
Significantly larger than a G42.
G42: 5.94x4.13x0.94
CCP: 6.42x5.12x1.18
The dimensions of the CCP are nearly identical to a G26 with a G19 length grip: 6.41x4.99x1.18
Size is a bummer, I have hopes for al these guns when I hear about them. Until I realize just how big they are. Once again I'll happily stick with my PM9 as it is actually tiny.
The PPQ is also abnormally thick comparatively speaking.
Interesting, I'll have to do more of a side by side when I get home but I never thought it was thicker than my Glocks. The contoured slide did make it seem slimmer, and the grip fits my hand like a glove.
For pistols competing in the single stack sub compact realm, i really believe the gun should be as thin as possible. Why choose an 8 round Walther when i could have a 1.18 inch thick G19?
Sure, overall grip length will definitely help conceal the gun but its NOT that much smaller than a G19.
The PPQ is also abnormally thick comparatively speaking.
This, I've tried a lot of sub compacts and have not found one to really have an advantage over a G19/G26 G23/G27.
Blah blah blah. Personally, I'm going to wait until I can hold a CCP in one in one hand and my PPS in the other. I'm not going to mentally masturbate over a set of dimensions on paper.
Blah blah blah. Personally, I'm going to wait until I can hold a CCP in one in one hand and my PPS in the other. I'm not going to mentally masturbate over a set of dimensions on paper.
Exactly; dimensionally the PPQ is pretty close to the G19, but when I hold them both the PPQ is hands down more comfortable in my hand.
teutonicpolymer
03-06-14, 20:14
oh wow I want this so damn bad
so glad I did not buy a pps now...
We'll see how well the delayed blowback system works. It lets the pistol be much lighter than a blow back system and the barrel can be fixed in place.
In my eyes, where Walther missed the boat is not using a safety in the trigger bow like they did with the PPQ and using the button style mag release.
The CCP isn't as small as it could be, but it's also not so tiny a guy like me can't get a grip on it. Yes, pistols like this are made to be carried a lot and shot a little but I like to shoot what I got and know I can control the pistol. Overall, I like the direction the theme the CCP is taking better than the PPS or the PK380. I would like a down-sized pistol to carry in place of the PPQ when something smaller is needed
For pistols competing in the single stack sub compact realm, i really believe the gun should be as thin as possible. Why choose an 8 round Walther when i could have a 1.18 inch thick G19?
Sure, overall grip length will definitely help conceal the gun but its NOT that much smaller than a G19.
The PPQ is also abnormally thick comparatively speaking.
It's thick at the widest point.
The Glock is a box, the widest point measurement is basically it's width everywhere. The PPQ has curves, it may be wider than the Glock in some places and thinner in others. In theory it could be easier to conceal; a box imprints on clothing easier than something with curves. Also, where do you get 'abnormally' thick from?
OVERALL WIDTH (Thinner is better for the purposes of concealment)
1) HK USP-C (1.14”)
2) Glock 19 (1.18")
2) Glock 17 (1.18")
2) Steyr M9-A1 (1.18")
2) XD-9 Serv. (1.18”)*
3) M&P 9 (1.2")
4) Ruger SR9 (1.27")
5) XDM 3.8 (1.28")
5) Kimber TP2 (1.28")
6) P250 C (1.3")
6) Walther PPQ (1.3")
7) HK P30 (1.37")
8) PX4-C (1.4")
8) CZ 75D (1.4")
8) Baby Eagle PSC (1.4”)*
9) CZ P-07 (1.5")
9) Sig P229 (1.5")
10) FNP-9 (1.55")
On another note, that mag looks familiar...
http://cdn1.waltherarms.com/wp-content/uploads/5050308-l.png
http://www.mrcolionnoir.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/508.00.01_1-e1394086016492.jpg
Didn't the HK P7 have a similar gas delayed blowback system?
CCP system is taken from HK P7. Walther guys admit this openly. Trigger is very nice. They say that manual safety is added for those people who just want to have it. With safety of system is as safe as PPQ or P99 without safety. At least this is what they say.
Do you know if a paddle version will be available?
Do you know if a paddle version will be available?
I would be astonished.
Three crown proof mark. That = Cologne, which in turn = Umarex. That's enough to make me lose interest.
http://i.pbase.com/o9/60/230460/1/154746732.MuBMesHQ.walther.jpg
^ You beat me to it, it's a big turn off; on the upside that might mean it's a little cheaper. I myself would rather pay a little more and get something of better quality. But I can see how others wouldn't care.
As for the paddle; the button release PPQ was made for the US market exclusively; the rest of the world has paddles. Unless this is made for the US market exclusively (which is a possibility), there's no reason there wouldn't be a paddle version.
No paddle release, no ambi safety. BTW paddle release will be phased out from PPQ as well. Walther guy told me that if I want PPQ with paddle release to buyit now, while they make them. But I liked what I saw in HK booth, so I'll pass on PPQ (it costs more than P30 in EU).
Montrala,
Don't tease man, dang!
Would it kill them to make something that's not ugly for a change? The old all metal Walthers were classy and elegant, then once they hit the polymer type it's like they went blind.
No paddle release, no ambi safety. BTW paddle release will be phased out from PPQ as well. Walther guy told me that if I want PPQ with paddle release to buyit now, while they make them.
I'm skeptical that that's true unless you can provide stellar credentials for your "Walther guy". Field reps are generally pretty clueless about corporate marketing strategy fir that exact reason: they tend to shoot their mouths off at various industry shows.
.
LibertyNeverDies
03-09-14, 16:05
This gun really makes me think that Walther doesn't understand what the American Market wants. I love my PPQ, but I can conceal my Glock 19 easier due to the overall height of the gun. I would have like to see a PPQc that holds 12 or 13 rounds and is slightly smaller than the Glock 19. Or an ergonomically updated PPS sized gun with a PPQ trigger.
From what was posted above about the gun being made by the airsoft division I am guessing this will be in a lower price bracket. The safety is another HUGE turnoff. The gun does look good but I'll stick with my glock. I just wish someone would come out with a superior Glock 19 sized 9mm.
The Dumb Gun Collector
03-09-14, 16:15
Definitely looks interesting to me. I might have to pick one of these up if the quality is there.
I just wish someone would come out with a superior Glock 19 sized 9mm.
The PPQ fits that description. For me, in a DeSantis Speed Scabbard at 4:00, it conceals better than a Glock 19 because the grip is a little farther forward. I sold the Glock and bought a second PPQ.
No paddle release, no ambi safety. BTW paddle release will be phased out from PPQ as well. Walther guy told me that if I want PPQ with paddle release to buyit now, while they make them. But I liked what I saw in HK booth, so I'll pass on PPQ (it costs more than P30 in EU).
That doesn't sound too unbelievable. A member on another forum said they already introduced the 5" PPQ in Europe. It was not a paddle style release. So it looks like they are starting to introduce the M2 line to the rest of the world market; it's not a US only thing anymore. I don't really see why they would continue making pistols in both paddle and button release. If they shared magazine commonality then maybe yes, but I think they'd rather just rather simplify things.
Blah blah blah. Personally, I'm going to wait until I can hold a CCP in one in one hand and my PPS in the other. I'm not going to mentally masturbate over a set of dimensions on paper.
Yeah, that Math stuff lies...
Subjective, emotional feel is far more important than you know, actual statistics and numbers.
My G19 carries differently than my XDS, there is a reason for that. The G19 has its role, the XDS also has its use. A bloated single stack 8 shot pistol does nothing for me when i could have, arguably, the same amount of rounds in a thinner package.
Bolt_Overide
03-10-14, 13:03
Too big... fail.
Manual safety... fail.
No reason to choose this over a M&P compact or a g26. I CCW a ppq, and this disappoints the hell outa me.
I'm with the crowd who would like to see a PPQc (G26 sized) *V1*, no manual safety.
-john
Trust it will be thin, they aren't stupid. The PK 380 cites a width of 1.2" but it is really thin. 1.18" is 29.9mm, if you subtract 5mm off the width to account for the safeties, or widest part the gun is probable 24mm or so wide, which is Kahr/PPS territory.
I love thin guns. The caracal subcompact is only 23.5mm wide, yet they were able to stuff 13 rounds in the mag, with a novel magazine winding design to allow for extra rounds. Wish they would have done that!!
Yeah, that Math stuff lies...
Subjective, emotional feel is far more important than you know, actual statistics and numbers.
My G19 carries differently than my XDS, there is a reason for that. The G19 has its role, the XDS also has its use. A bloated single stack 8 shot pistol does nothing for me when i could have, arguably, the same amount of rounds in a thinner package.
...and Math without context is just your imagination.
It's interesting you use the widest point measurements to compare a Glock to every other gun, a statistic that clearly biases a gun like the glock with a smaller standard deviation in width than other pistols. But yeah that statistics stuff is useless ;)
This will be interesting. I've been waiting for a manufacturer to bring out something just like this.
But I still can't figure out why Glock just doesn't make a single stack version of the G19 or G23. Surely it would have saved them a lot of time and money over designing something from the ground up like the G42. I am of the firm opinion that if Glock made a single stack version of the G19, G23, G26, and G27, they would dominate the market. Period.
This will be interesting. I've been waiting for a manufacturer to bring out something just like this.
But I still can't figure out why Glock just doesn't make a single stack version of the G19 or G23. Surely it would have saved them a lot of time and money over designing something from the ground up like the G42. I am of the firm opinion that if Glock made a single stack version of the G19, G23, G26, and G27, they would dominate the market. Period.
I'm skeptical that that's true unless you can provide stellar credentials for your "Walther guy".
I went back to Umarex to confirm. Info source is Peter Dallhammer, Product Manager for Walther. PPQ "classic" frame (paddle release) is already out of production. They still assemble pistols with what is left on stock. Once those frames are gone, they are gone. Only PPQ M-series frames will be made. According to him "M" means frame with button release, while digit denotes trigger system. He pointed out that magazines for PPQ M2 are marked on body "M-series". "M1" name is used on PPQ "classic" on US market by mistake (someone who came up with this name, did not know what M2 designation really means). Peter said that he himself prefers classic version and uses classic frame on his own 4" and 5" pistols he uses in competition.
I went back to Umarex to confirm. Info source is Peter Dallhammer, Product Manager for Walther. PPQ "classic" frame (paddle release) is already out of production. They still assemble pistols with what is left on stock. Once those frames are gone, they are gone. Only PPQ M-series frames will be made. According to him "M" means frame with button release, while digit denotes trigger system. He pointed out that magazines for PPQ M2 are marked on body "M-series". "M1" name is used on PPQ "classic" on US market by mistake (someone who came up with this name, did not know what M2 designation really means). Peter said that he himself prefers classic version and uses classic frame on his own 4" and 5" pistols he uses in competition.
OK then. Interesting. I imagine that will send up quite a howl from at least one segment of Walther fans.
...and Math without context is just your imagination.
It's interesting you use the widest point measurements to compare a Glock to every other gun, a statistic that clearly biases a gun like the glock with a smaller standard deviation in width than other pistols. But yeah that statistics stuff is useless ;)
The context is as follows:
The widest point of the pistol is what enlarges your belt line when worn IWB or OWB. A hard kydex holster is enlarged by X amount in order to accommodate what must be stuffed inside of it. Especially a well designed holster that has a mold produced in order to accommodate things like slide locks and levers. A tapered slide sure enough IS thinner than the widest point of the firearm but no one touts a "tri top" cut as aiding in concealment. The P07 is a great pistol that comes to mind that proves that no matter how much material you take off of the slide, the thickest point of the firearm can STILL hinder how well you can conceal the pistol.
If you guys love your PPQ's, awesome. If you can conceal them, awesome. I still stand behind my original statement in regard to this pistol simply being too thick for its intended role.
PatrioticDisorder
03-11-14, 19:12
How is this different from a PPS besides the communist sounding name?
No paddle release, and produced in cologne instead of ulm. Those are two things but there's more I'm sure.
I don't think the PPS is a fixed barrel design either
LibertyNeverDies
03-11-14, 19:21
The PPQ fits that description. For me, in a DeSantis Speed Scabbard at 4:00, it conceals better than a Glock 19 because the grip is a little farther forward. I sold the Glock and bought a second PPQ.
I've got a Glock 19 and a PPQ. I love my PPQ but for me AIWB carry the G19 is just slightly better, but it is the tipping point for my body type. The overall height of the PPQ lies right in between the Glock and M&P. I'd rather have one less round and it be the size of the Glock 19.
The context is as follows:
The widest point of the pistol is what enlarges your belt line when worn IWB or OWB. A hard kydex holster is enlarged by X amount in order to accommodate what must be stuffed inside of it. Especially a well designed holster that has a mold produced in order to accommodate things like slide locks and levers. A tapered slide sure enough IS thinner than the widest point of the firearm but no one touts a "tri top" cut as aiding in concealment. The P07 is a great pistol that comes to mind that proves that no matter how much material you take off of the slide, the thickest point of the firearm can STILL hinder how well you can conceal the pistol.
If you guys love your PPQ's, awesome. If you can conceal them, awesome. I still stand behind my original statement in regard to this pistol simply being too thick for its intended role.
The assumption you are making is that the pistol with the single widest point is the most difficult to conceal, and that is simply not true. During CHL imprinting in my shirt is far more of an issue for me than the width of my belt, a pistol with a smaller standard deviation in width prints more easily. A block of wood is clearly defined by a sheet of cloth, while something carved out of a .1" wider block of wood is less defined. Basically, what I'm trying to say is Glocks are flat and that has more of an impact when trying to hide one than a .1" width difference.
Regardless, your claim that a CCP (which you've never even seen in person) is more difficult than a Glock to conceal based on a single measurement of the widest point of the slide is irrational.
LibertyNeverDies
03-11-14, 19:30
I went back to Umarex to confirm. Info source is Peter Dallhammer, Product Manager for Walther. PPQ "classic" frame (paddle release) is already out of production. They still assemble pistols with what is left on stock. Once those frames are gone, they are gone. Only PPQ M-series frames will be made. According to him "M" means frame with button release, while digit denotes trigger system. He pointed out that magazines for PPQ M2 are marked on body "M-series". "M1" name is used on PPQ "classic" on US market by mistake (someone who came up with this name, did not know what M2 designation really means). Peter said that he himself prefers classic version and uses classic frame on his own 4" and 5" pistols he uses in competition.
I can second that Peter is a good source. Very nice and pleasant to deal with. He seemed very interested in getting more market share for the PPQ in the US market. I wish I could say the same for Walther Arms the US importer.
The assumption you are making is that the pistol with the single widest point is the most difficult to conceal, and that is simply not true. During CHL imprinting in my shirt is far more of an issue for me than the width of my belt, a pistol with a smaller standard deviation in width prints more easily. A block of wood is clearly defined by a sheet of cloth, while something carved out of a .1" wider block of wood is less defined. Basically, what I'm trying to say is Glocks are flat and that has more of an impact when trying to hide one than a .1" width difference.
Regardless, your claim that a CCP (which you've never even seen in person) is more difficult than a Glock to conceal based on a single measurement of the widest point of the slide is irrational.
I made no such claim. I drew a comparison between number's, between guns, ie the 9mm Glock sharing the same widest point. My comparison was in regard to the thickness of 1.18 being larger than competing pistols in this size category, ala the XDS and Shield.
I think we are going to have to agree to disagree. You are offering an assertion in that you state the widest point of the gun does not matter to you as your belt circumference makes no difference. I and many other's would disagree greatly as this is not an assumption but a fact based upon OUR carry needs and methodologies.
I made no such claim. I drew a comparison between number's, between guns, ie the 9mm Glock sharing the same widest point. My comparison was in regard to the thickness of 1.18 being larger than competing pistols in this size category, ala the XDS and Shield.
I think we are going to have to agree to disagree. You are offering an assertion in that you state the widest point of the gun does not matter to you as your belt circumference makes no difference. I and many other's would disagree greatly as this is not an assumption but a fact based upon OUR carry needs and methodologies.
No, I never said that the widest point was not an issue, I simply said that printing was more an issue than a few tenths on the slide. Printing is subjective to the wearer and something that is difficult to quantify. But I agree we have different concerns that lead us to seek different qualities in concealed carry weapons.
I went back to Umarex to confirm. Info source is Peter Dallhammer, Product Manager for Walther. PPQ "classic" frame (paddle release) is already out of production. They still assemble pistols with what is left on stock. Once those frames are gone, they are gone. Only PPQ M-series frames will be made. According to him "M" means frame with button release, while digit denotes trigger system. He pointed out that magazines for PPQ M2 are marked on body "M-series". "M1" name is used on PPQ "classic" on US market by mistake (someone who came up with this name, did not know what M2 designation really means). Peter said that he himself prefers classic version and uses classic frame on his own 4" and 5" pistols he uses in competition.
Dunno what to think. Bret Vorhees, Director of Marketing for Walther Arms, posted the following over on the Walther forums rn response to your post:
Guys,
The Classic PPQ's aren't going away for good. In fact we've shipped a good amount of them already this year, and have a lot more coming in throughout the year.
I'm not sure of the context of the conversation with Peter, but it sounds like there's a misunderstanding there.
I am unsure of the ratio of sales volume in paddles vs. M2's because both don't tend to hang out on dealer's shelves for long, but I do know that both are in high demand. The plan is to keep supplying that demand to the best of our abilities.
I am personally a fan of the classic, and I'll post some pictures of my PPQ in the picture thread when I get the slide back on Friday. Had some Cerakote work done last week. But someone told me early in my sales career that it doesn't matter what I like. It matters what the consumer likes.. So I appreciate you guys speaking out on this often. I know there are fans of both methods of mag-release, so we will continue to offer both models.
Bret
Dunno what to think. Bret Vorhees, Director of Marketing for Walther Arms, posted the following over on the Walther forums rn response to your post:
Looks like guys from Walther need to clear this between them.
What was context of my conversation? Peter clearly stated that all PPQ classic that are manufactured now use frames that they have stocked in warehouse. That is why they are available and will be for some time while supply of fames last. He told me twice, that if I want to have PPQ with paddle release then I should get it now, while they are available, because once they are gone, they will not make more. This was what he originally said. After your credibility question and went back to him day or two later, to make sure I got him right first time. He confirmed again what he said, plus he clarified to me what "M-series" designation means in PPQ line.
Anyway, I do not have horse in this race, as I do not see a point of getting PPQ over HKs that I already own (especially with ridiculous prices Walther ask here for PPQ). If they keep classic version, it's good - one more pistol on the market with "proper" magazine release. If they not, I will not loose my sleep over this. ;)
Looks like guys from Walther need to clear this between them.
What was context of my conversation? Peter clearly stated that all PPQ classic that are manufactured now use frames that they have stocked in warehouse. That is why they are available and will be for some time while supply of fames last. He told me twice, that if I want to have PPQ with paddle release then I should get it now, while they are available, because once they are gone, they will not make more. This was what he originally said. After your credibility question and went back to him day or two later, to make sure I got him right first time. He confirmed again what he said, plus he clarified to me what "M-series" designation means in PPQ line.
Anyway, I do not have horse in this race, as I do not see a point of getting PPQ over HKs that I already own (especially with ridiculous prices Walther ask here for PPQ). If they keep classic version, it's good - one more pistol on the market with "proper" magazine release. If they not, I will not loose my sleep over this. ;)
Now will I. I have a couple of PPQs and I'm happy with them. I am totally indifferent to the type of magazine release...either is fine with me. My only concern was for them both to be the same so I didn't have to screw around with twice the number of magazines. I have no interest in HK at this point.
Anyway, it's an interesting conversation that appears to be important to a lot of current and potential PPQ owners. Thanks for sharing it.
I can second that Peter is a good source. Very nice and pleasant to deal with. He seemed very interested in getting more market share for the PPQ in the US market. I wish I could say the same for Walther Arms the US importer.
Fascinating statement. I'm not doubting it at all but that flies in the face of conventional wisdom which said it was Germany who didn't get the US market. So if you can expand upon this I'd appreciate it.
IMO the failure to include an ambitious release and safety in the 21st century is a major fail.
I find it interesting that the HK's are so much cheaper than the PPQ's in Europe and the exact opposite is the case here in the states.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
I find it interesting that the HK's are so much cheaper than the PPQ's in Europe and the exact opposite is the case here in the states.
"So much" to strong. Just "cheaper". German prices with sales tax (19%):
Glock 17 - 599 EUR
HK P30/P30L - 798 EUR
HK P30LS - 849 EUR
Walther PPQ - 849 EUR
In Poland (sales tax 23%):
HK P30/P30L - 4,200 PLN
HK P30LS - 4,500 PLN
Walther PPQ - 4,500 PLN
So basically PPQ price is in Europe around $100 higher than P30 or P30L price and at same level as price for P30LS.
How is this different from a PPS besides the communist sounding name?
No paddle release, and produced in cologne instead of ulm. Those are two things but there's more I'm sure.
I don't think the PPS is a fixed barrel design either
The PPS is modified Browning, like the Glock, SIG, HK, etc. I guess they are going after a lower price point and "familiarity" with the button and safety lever. Other than that I think the PPS is a better choice for concealed carry.
According to Walther Forums the CCP will start at $415-$419
My LGS charged $375 for the R51 and quoted me $415 for the CCP. Must admit that I am privately smiling at the price points of these new CC pistols. Cost of entry seems just right..
So to recap on the CCP here is what we know so far…
• The CCP will be introduced at the NRA show April 25th...expect sightings at the store in May
• The trigger pull weight is the same as the PPQ and the length of pull is the same as a PPX
• The CCP is close to the size of the Walther PK380
• Slide is stainless steel. Barrel is one piece stationary. Not the same barrel design as PPX.
• (Brett Vorhees has been shooting this thing a lot in the last few weeks and states it is extremely accurate. “When you disassemble the gun you will see the simplicity in its design.”)
• The manual safety is not attached by a screw like the PK380, and it is actually very conveniently located on the frame.
• The takedown is via pushing in the striker spring plate at the end of the slide.
• "Preliminary pricing for the Walther CCP 9mm is $419 Black, $424 Stainless."
And these guys are taking pre-orders at $419 Black/ $424 Stainless:
http://www.druryfirearms.com/2014/03/new-walther-ccp-9mm-in-stainless-or.html
MiamiCracker
03-17-14, 19:22
Not a bad price actually
What does this do better than the PPS? It has the same trigger as the PPS/PPQ, but is larger in every dimension.
I'd rather see a PPQ redesigned to be thinner and keep the double stack 15rnd mags.
It's going to need to be sized like a Kahr
Much better ergonomically than the PPS and the trick gas system that reduces recoil.
It kind of makes sense actually, they cater to different people. The PPS is the most concealable package Walther could make while the CCP is the nicest shooting single stack they could make. No sense in competing with yourself, but I do wish they would re-release a PPS with the better trigger.
What does this do better than the PPS? It has the same trigger as the PPS/PPQ, but is larger in every dimension.
PPS and PPQ triggers are completely different. The CCP is same trigger as the PPQ.
The CCP is same trigger as the PPQ.
No, it is not (I tried them side by side). It is same weight as PPQ trigger and that is all. CCP trigger is long travel trigger, with lot of weight on pre-travel and long reset. It still is "pre-cocked" type of striker trigger, not SA type like in PPQ. It is maybe closer to P99Q trigger (P99Q is Police version of PPQ, that complies with German technical guidelines for 9mm Police Pistol).
No, it is not (I tried them side by side). It is same weight as PPQ trigger and that is all. CCP trigger is long travel trigger, with lot of weight on pre-travel and long reset. It still is "pre-cocked" type of striker trigger, not SA type like in PPQ. It is maybe closer to P99Q trigger (P99Q is Police version of PPQ, that complies with German technical guidelines for 9mm Police Pistol).
Same pull, as in pre-cocked striker. Completely different than the PPS, was the thrust of my point.
Same pull, as in pre-cocked striker. Completely different than the PPS, was the thrust of my point.
If I understood your words, that CCP trigger is same trigger as in PPQ, somebody else could as well. And be bound for huge disappointment. That is why I felt need for some clarification from first hand experience.
WickedWillis
03-18-14, 11:44
Much better ergonomically than the PPS and the trick gas system that reduces recoil.
It kind of makes sense actually, they cater to different people. The PPS is the most concealable package Walther could make while the CCP is the nicest shooting single stack they could make. No sense in competing with yourself, but I do wish they would re-release a PPS with the better trigger.
As compared to what? I think the PPS has the best trigger of any of the small, single-stack 9's that I have ever shot. That includes the Shield (Which is my EDC) and the HS2000S (XDS) 9mm.
If I understood your words, that CCP trigger is same trigger as in PPQ, somebody else could as well. And be bound for huge disappointment. That is why I felt need for some clarification from first hand experience.
Thanks for the clarification then.
FYI, your conversation with Peter Dalhammer was pretty roundly refuted by Brett Vorhees, Walther Arms National Sales Manager, after his conversation with Peter.
P99DAO: Striker is true a DA, completely uncocked.
P99QA/P99Q/PPS/PPX: Striker (or hammer in PPX's case) is partially precocked and move reward before it moves forward just like a Glock or HK LEM
P99AS: SA mode- Striker is 100% precocked. DA mode- Striker is a true DA, completely uncocked
PPQ: Striker is 100% precocked.
Walther has said the CCP trigger is precocked the question is how much? Walther has also stated the pull is smooth throughout the travel (i.e. no takeup) therefore I would assume it's a partially precocked striker just like a Glock.
LibertyNeverDies
03-18-14, 12:33
Fascinating statement. I'm not doubting it at all but that flies in the face of conventional wisdom which said it was Germany who didn't get the US market. So if you can expand upon this I'd appreciate it.
IMO the failure to include an ambitious release and safety in the 21st century is a major fail.
Walther Germany may not understand the US market and I'm not sure to what extent Peter understands it, but I know he would like to increase Walther's hold on the US market. I was working on coming out with an aftermarket product(never went into production) for the modern Walther Handguns and Peter went out of his way to get me the information I needed. He seems to understand that the US consumers like to have as many aftermarket options as possible.
I tried to deal with Walther Arms and received no response and when I called it always ended up being a dead end. I've also dealt with them on the return of a wrongly packaged magazine and they screwed everything up. Walther Arms seems unorganized to at this point. I emailed Walther Germany and got a response within a couple days from Peter and he worked with my design guy to get him the information he needed to complete the project. My design guy met Peter at Shot and said both Peter and Walther Germany were very interested in the US market.
Being interested and professional doesn't mean they understand the US market.
FYI, your conversation with Peter Dalhammer was pretty roundly refuted by Brett Vorhees, Walther Arms National Sales Manager, after his conversation with Peter.
Whatever. As we say here in Poland "only cow does not change mind", so maybe Peter re-considered this matter. My Chief Editor was present at original conversation and recently he commented to me, that he is very disappointed that Walther discontinues paddle mag release on PPQ. So looks like it is not product of my hearing problems, or my poor English, or my enormous imagination.
As you wrote before usually Walter reps do not know what they are talking about. Maybe this is a case again. Or maybe Peter just wanted to use some "buy while it last" panic trick, to promote sales of paddle version.
Whatever. As we say here in Poland "only cow does not change mind", so maybe Peter re-considered this matter. My Chief Editor was present at original conversation and recently he commented to me, that he is very disappointed that Walther discontinues paddle mag release on PPQ. So looks like it is not product of my hearing problems, or my poor English, or my enormous imagination.
As you wrote before usually Walter reps do not know what they are talking about. Maybe this is a case again. Or maybe Peter just wanted to use some "buy while it last" panic trick, to promote sales of paddle version.
Brett's not a rep...he's the boss. He reported that after talking directly with Peter on this specific subject. But I agree...whatever. It doesn't really affect me as I have what is likely (for me) to be a lifetime supply of PPQs and the appropriate magazines.
Walther's post on Waltherforums today
As most of you already know, the new Walther CCP Concealed Carry Pistol is making its way around the web. Our planned unveiling was April 25th at the NRA Meeting in Indianapolis. However, the story was leaked through a press release for the U.S. market that was released very early.
Because there is a lot of interest and excitement, we are providing an early product announcement of the CCP this week.
The CCP uses a gas-delayed blowback system (Walther Soft Coil™ design) that slows rearward slide motion. It comes in "stylish stainless or CerakoteŽ black" and is chambered in 9mm. The magazine is single stack with an 8 round capacity. There are 2 safeties - one manual external safety and one firing pin block internal safety.
The magazine release is a button that is reversible, similar to the PPQ M2. Common traits with the PPQ include polymer frame, Hi-Grip™ surface, and front & rear serrations on the slide.
View the Walther CCP web page (http://www.WaltherArms.com/CCP) (www.WaltherArms.com/CCP).
Not every gun is for every person. This is not a PPQ M1 Classic, P38, or 1911, but it will be popular & effective where its features meet the needs of its buyers. It is easy to rack the first round, keep the muzzle down, and return to target. The gun is designed to be comfortable to carry. The single action trigger is a constant 5.5 lbs and has 0.27" travel. It includes a picatinny rail.
We will be making the official CCP launch announcement at the NRA Meeting on April 25th.
Joe McCoy
E-Marketing Specialist
Walther Arms, Inc.
http://www.waltherarms.com/wp-content/uploads/ccp-thumb.png
http://www.waltherarms.com/wp-content/uploads/ccp-thumb-stainless.png
FChen17213
05-07-14, 15:23
Has anyone heard anything new on this? From what I heard, these should start shipping at the end of May 2014 and early June 2014. I am very anxious to read a review from someone who has actually shot one. Although the gun looks similar, the action is obviously way different from the PPQ's. I'm also wondering if the trigger will be like the PPQ's or different. Purely from a intuitive standpoint, I sort of see this as a gun in between a Glock 19 and a Shield or Glock 42. So I would say it's between a compact and a large subcompact......if that makes sense.
A Walther rep over on that forum says the end of May/June for stainless and July for black. Several places have had sub-$400 preorders.
If you look at the numbers, it's actually shorter than a PPS with the 8rd mag in it. Unfortunately, it has no option for a 6 or 7rd mag.
RepeatDefender
05-08-14, 14:02
I like my PPQ so much I may just have to get a CCP...poor wallet, I had just filled it back up too
eternal24k
05-08-14, 14:03
Are these actually made by umarex?
According to the cologne proof mark, yes they are made by umarex. I saw it mentioned on the Walther forum also confirming these are made by Umarex
I was/am seriously considering the PPQ, because I was wanted to increase the capacity as compared to my XDS (Perfect carry size IWB for shorts and T shirt) The CCP caught my eye, but when I look at the specs it seems to be rather large for what it is, and does not look much smaller than the PPQ. As stated earlier in the thread, specs can be misleading. Normally the grip length is the hardest part to conceal, however on my full size Glock the box shape of the rear of the slide prints more than the grip length.
I believe the contoured slide of the PPQ could be much better than the Glock and I am willing to bet the shape of the mag on the CCP could be harder to conceal than a longer grip that is flat or rounded.
I would like to be able to see the PPQ and CCP side by side.
Single stacks and double stacks each have their own PROS and CONS, it just a matter of finding the best compromise. Why is it so hard to make a rounded slide G19 sized gun??
For now I think the PPQ may be the closest thing to it.
teutonicpolymer
06-09-14, 20:48
I was/am seriously considering the PPQ, because I was wanted to increase the capacity as compared to my XDS (Perfect carry size IWB for shorts and T shirt) The CCP caught my eye, but when I look at the specs it seems to be rather large for what it is, and does not look much smaller than the PPQ. As stated earlier in the thread, specs can be misleading. Normally the grip length is the hardest part to conceal, however on my full size Glock the box shape of the rear of the slide prints more than the grip length.
I believe the contoured slide of the PPQ could be much better than the Glock and I am willing to bet the shape of the mag on the CCP could be harder to conceal than a longer grip that is flat or rounded.
I would like to be able to see the PPQ and CCP side by side.
Single stacks and double stacks each have their own PROS and CONS, it just a matter of finding the best compromise. Why is it so hard to make a rounded slide G19 sized gun??
For now I think the PPQ may be the closest thing to it.
The PPQ might have a contoured slide but it is still wider than a Glock 21 and taller than the 19 just to put things in perspective
These things were deal breakers for me
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