View Full Version : First custom build, ready to shoot.
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I will get more pics up as soon as I can take them. This was my first custom, I started with an m&p sport which I sold and turned into this with just a little extra money. Hope you guys dig it. the idea was a simple multi-purpose rifle, I wanted it to be very utilitarian. I am open to ideas as to how some of you would mount a light, and a sling to it, and weather or not you guys would suggest a VFG.
Here are the part, note everything was purposefully chosen with minimal thought given to cost savings.
Lower: GWACS CAV-15 in FDE, fully populated from GWACS, (I bout this fully populated with their parts kit after reading reviews that it was gtg, and being as things go together differently on this lower I figured they ought to have a good system for getting it set up to go out of the box)
Barrel: AR Performance, 16", midlength, Socom profile, melonite, 1:8 5R rifling, 223 Wylde chamber, target crown, M4 ramp barrel extension, 5/8 24 threaded muzzle, finished off with a black oxide 308 A2 flash hider, and an ODIN melonite low profile gas block with spike melonite gas tube
Upper: MEGA forged (I contacted ARP and asked them what they like using for their barrels, it was suggested that I go with a MEGA forged upper, so I did, it was very difficult to find but my local guy found me one) the fit and finish were a thing of wonder. The upper was finished off with stand FA, and a 5.56 dust cover door(in retrospect I wish I would have found one that read 223 wylde)
BCG: LMT standard phosphate (as some of you know I had a lot of difficulty choosing a BCG but I went LMT and after working out a potential issue, which was actually a non-issue, I couldn't be happier)
Charging Handle: BCM mod 3
Forearm: UTG Pro super slim, rifle length (here is were I assume some of you might think I skimped, I assure you, I looked for a long time, at a lot of free float tubes on rifles in my local shops and took a liking to it before I ever tried to buy anything, its so slim and comfortable to hold and from everything I can find they have been 100% functionally, they have a very sturdy attachment design, I couldn't find one I liked more in any way *applies flame retardant suit:cool:*)
Sights: Magpul MBUS with a Hi-Vis fiber optic front post, here is wear I have less money into this than I probably could, currently I am putting money asside while I decide what primary sight to go with. 1-4 Leupold, Aimpoint, Eotech, Trijicon reflex, Nikon fixed 3x, or Mepro 21 (feel free to input, as far as I can tell Aimpoint has all ups with no downs)
Mags: Magpul (I just like Magpuls, I got for of them, not sure why I should get anything else)
Keep an eye out for more pictures! Thanks guys
What made you go with a Cav lower?
Also what forearms did you try? The MI, Samson, and even the new BCM should have a similar feeling size wise. IMO UTG is about as bad as it gets in terms of quality, design, spec, materials, and makeup. But as long as you like it. Ultimately it's on a polymer lower so not really a combat type AR to begin with.
Outside of that, looks like a fun rifle. How you liking the Hivis post?
Wait what?!?
All this fuss about a BCG and THATS the parts list it's going in?
No offense but you have some things ass backwards.
I looked into the cav 15 alot, and the grip and stock fit perfect for me and I was fond of the fact that it reduces pieces. I also like the fact that it reduces the chances of dirt binding the buffer, and also removes and danger of bending the buffer tube. I am very fond of polymer handguns, so no real qualms in going this route especially when they have extensively tested these both through customers and privately, running different types of uppers on the same lower. I don't feel the least bit uncomfortable with it.
As far as UTG, yes, it seems their reputation is awful, UTG pro is a different part of the company, american manufactured and I havn't heard a single complaint about their rails. my local custom guy actually uses it for a lot of his builds, and has a lot of requests for them when people handle the rifles there on. this is how I found that rail. I preferred its mounting to any of the others you mentioned. have you seen one in person? I have seen UTG stuff, its not good, this is different.
I like the HiVis post alot, I wasn't sure how I would like it, but I found it for free, it was on sale for 15 dollars on a website that gave me 15 dollars to spend just for signing up, then I found a ten dollar coupon which covered their flat rate 9.99 shipping lol, free. But I really like it, it is well thought out and executed well. It was great for me cause I wanted to pick up a front sight adjustment tool anyways, and the fsp included one, and four fiberglass rods, two red, two green. It is maybe a little wider than the fsp that came on the MBUS.
Kenneth, are you saying that the BCG wasn't important? what in particular do you dislike about the rifle? The lower?
I take it I don't need to post any more pictures on here huh?
Wreckingball911
03-07-14, 15:04
Shoot, post away. Looks like an interesting rifle.
haha, I'll take interesting. I'll post more pics later today.
Kaz,
What I think some of the good folks here are trying to say is, the LMT you bought should have gone into a surrounding group of parts befitting it's reputation for excellence. That's not to say that you won't have a great time with your build, oh on the contrary. It's just that this forum prefers a breed of weapon well worthy of very hard use.
Polymer lowers and UTG anything will sound the sirens for many here. So, don't take it too personally. You are surrounded by milspec aficionados. Please learn to like it ;)
I understand, I intend to run this hard, I will be taking to to a carbine course after I hit the range with it a few times. I did put a lot of thought into making sure the crucial components to a hard use rifle would be there. I mean, I didn't throw a plum crazy in there, I didn't use a regular UTG drop in 2 piece quad rail. I put some legitimate thought into it as a rifle to be well rounded for multi purpose. I feel it is an improvement over my M&P sport that I sold, and I felt that was a solid rifle. I will post reports after the range and then after the CC.
I look forward to the AAR with this weapon! May she serve you well.
I was just expecting a crazy build of sorts since so much thought went into the BCG. Personally I bet it will shoot for awhile but I would get a spare lower and LPK just because.
Let us know how it goes.
How does the Cav arms keep grit out of the buffer area? It's the same as a normal receiver, just the stock is molded to the receiver. It still uses the extact same rifle extension as an a1/a2 stock so really unsure of this thinking. Nothing will be different in terms of protecting stuff.
Also UTG Pro American made or not is still at the bottom of the heap when it comes to parts. Doesn't matter if it's a different part of the company or not, it's as bad as it gets IMO. These typically go on the most extreme of budget guns, or those guns covered in tactical NCstar stuff you see hanging in the local gun shop.
IMO you need to remember you still have a polymer lower, so I'd still go easy on it. These are not forged lowers. Also have to remember on a forged lower you can replace the stock if you beat it up/damage it, on the Cav... well your stuck with it and trash the lower if you have issues. I will say however, the Cav is probably the best polymer lower around, but regardless, it's still a polymer lower. Not combat grade in the slightest sense.
You will learn pretty quick that knowing a local guy who says the stuff is top notch, and also has many request for it means diddily squat. Many "local gun gurus and yeti masters" also say DPMS is operator grade and people flood in the door for it. Don't believe everything you hear, especially in a gun shop (even worse if you "know" the guy, as typically they will feed you even more bs to seem badass).
But anyways, not putting you down, just curious to why things were chosen. At least you got a good bcg in it, as that is probably one of the most important things to not skimp on.
It doesn't use a standard rifle extension, it is a carbine length area but there is no buffer tube in it, the stock itself has a channel through which the spring and buffer ride on lands, so there are grooves for dirt around the buffer and spring, also the stock can be pretty horribly bent and return to shape on its own. As for if I ruin the stock I cant just replace it, the lower has a lifetime warranty, if it breaks within a year, it is replaced free of charge, if it breaks after that it can be replaced for $35.
As far as the forearm, it is constructed very well, the material is the same used by others, the barrel nut is steel, and the fixture I thought seemed more effective than a lot of the others. The price on this was an added bonus for this piece, I really looked into it a lot and I could not find any negatives comments made about the product.
I don't know the local guy personally, he very objectively explained that he thought they were comparable to the Troy or MI, and from fit and finish as well as the principle behind it's attachment. maybe it's not good and I will blow up, I will make sure to let everyone know, but maybe they did just accidentally come out with a great product. I know after a large thread was started on another site, they almost went extinct. I had a really hard time finding one when I went to make my purchase. Have you seen one in person?
It seems like its being made out that the BCG is the only decent part in the rifle?
Also, I will be very hard on the cav15, its not meant to be babied. Talking with the guy there, he is very confident in the product, he said he has two rifle running an ongoing test with no issues yet.
P.S. sorry to disappoint you kenneth
Ah yes, you are correct, I was mistaken with another lower about the extension.
None the less, it's still a polymer lower, albeit one of the more recommended ones in the plastic lower market. I do find comparing a UTG pro rail to an MI rail a bit questionable. But then again it's not suprising as many also say the same thing about YHM rails etc in gun shops.
As long with your happy with it that is all that matters in the end though.
Ah yes, you are correct, I was mistaken with another lower about the extension.
None the less, it's still a polymer lower, albeit one of the more recommended ones in the plastic lower market. I do find comparing a UTG pro rail to an MI rail a bit questionable. But then again it's not suprising as many also say the same thing about YHM rails etc in gun shops.
As long with your happy with it that is all that matters in the end though.
I thought the purpose of the polymer lower/stock is to reduce weight. Why did you put a 2lb+ Socom barrel on a lightweight frame?
I think it balances well, right behind the mag well which I think feels pretty nice, I went with the lower for a few reasons, it does cut weight off the total rifle which is nice for carry purposes, but I liked the buffer tube design, and the reduction to total pieces, it also fits me very well. I feel like polymers claims to increased impact, and abrasion resistance are realistic. I read a lot of really good write ups on the design, and an unconditional lifetime warranty is pretty nice.
I was looking at a lightweight profile barrel, but the socom caught my attention because of the way the weight is distributed. and eventually I would like to suppress and the weight at the rear of the rifle resists drooping. Not to mention after the weight saving of the lower I was ok with the extra bit of weight.
http://i1292.photobucket.com/albums/b566/kazpgates/20140307_233808_zpsd2e6da8f.jpg (http://s1292.photobucket.com/user/kazpgates/media/20140307_233808_zpsd2e6da8f.jpg.html)
http://i1292.photobucket.com/albums/b566/kazpgates/20140307_234303_zpsed8bb466.jpg (http://s1292.photobucket.com/user/kazpgates/media/20140307_234303_zpsed8bb466.jpg.html)
http://i1292.photobucket.com/albums/b566/kazpgates/20140307_235009_zps8ab6da98.jpg (http://s1292.photobucket.com/user/kazpgates/media/20140307_235009_zps8ab6da98.jpg.html)
After you add a suppressor to that you will change your mind. There is more to a rail than fit and finish which means nothing. UTG is bottom pile stuff.
After you add a suppressor to that you will change your mind. There is more to a rail than fit and finish which means nothing. UTG is bottom pile stuff.
Is someone interested in telling me what might actually be wrong with it?
Most likely, the lack of a track record of hard use on the "pro" line. Same for the lower. If you can provide some links to articles were these have seen hard use (carbine courses, etc.), it would go a long way here. Otherwise, they will be a tough sell on this forum no matter how much you like them.
Course instructors see lot's of stuff break during their classes. They also see lot's of stuff that doesn't break. A trend starts to form and viola, good and bad reputations emerge. This is an oversimplified view, because even good stuff can break. It just doesn't happen as often.
Most likely, the lack of a track record of hard use on the "pro" line. Same for the lower. If you can provide some links to articles were these have seen hard use (carbine courses, etc.), it would go a long way here. Otherwise, they will be a tough sell on this forum no matter how much you like them.
Course instructors see lot's of stuff break during their classes. They also see lot's of stuff that doesn't break. A trend starts to form and viola, good and bad reputations emerge. This is an oversimplified view, because even good stuff can break. It just doesn't happen as often.
No article around will change the fact anything under the UTG name pro or not, is bottom of the barrel. It's UTG. Enough said. UTG pro IMO is the equivalent to RGUNS stuff.
Most likely, the lack of a track record of hard use on the "pro" line. Same for the lower. If you can provide some links to articles were these have seen hard use (carbine courses, etc.), it would go a long way here. Otherwise, they will be a tough sell on this forum no matter how much you like them.
Course instructors see lot's of stuff break during their classes. They also see lot's of stuff that doesn't break. A trend starts to form and viola, good and bad reputations emerge. This is an oversimplified view, because even good stuff can break. It just doesn't happen as often.
Well, I could probably find some stuff for the lower, but, it seems some people here might care more about the name weather the company every makes good stuff or not. I will see personally how it runs in hard use. And I will post on here for anyone who cares, I have found quite a few posts from people on other forums stating that they replaced even more expensive rails(MI, DD) with these after running them on a new build. UTG has even been working with 3 gunners to try and find out what is being sought after. Already they have stated they are going to put out a 15" to meet 3 gunner requests. I really feel like the quality is good, maybe it will catch fire the first time I dump a mag, but I can't see any logical reason why it would. Again though, the lower has been tested extensively.
Well, I could probably find some stuff for the lower, but, it seems some people here might care more about the name weather the company every makes good stuff or not. I will see personally how it runs in hard use. And I will post on here for anyone who cares, I have found quite a few posts from people on other forums stating that they replaced even more expensive rails(MI, DD) with these after running them on a new build. UTG has even been working with 3 gunners to try and find out what is being sought after. Already they have stated they are going to put out a 15" to meet 3 gunner requests. I really feel like the quality is good, maybe it will catch fire the first time I dump a mag, but I can't see any logical reason why it would. Again though, the lower has been tested extensively.
Nothing to do with caring about the name. Look at BAD. They started out of nothing, and we took them in with open arms as they proved themselves and their products. Look at Sionics. Another brand not known by most, but they put out good stuff. Look at Umbrella, they came from no where and tons of us use their grips, and other parts. Look at V7, brand new, and solid products. The whole thing is UTG has always been bottom of the pile and always will be. There is no turning the UTG name around as they continue making sub part stuff. If the guys from UTG pro wanted to come out with top notch stuff they would have done it under a different name, not affiliated with a company known for making stuff for the mall ninja crowd. No one serious will ever bother using the UTG pro stuff as there is already a slew of top notch stuff around so why waste money.
The Cav lower like said is fine. It's a polymer lower but one of the better ones. You should be fine with it but like said, it definitely won't hold up like a 7075 milspec receiver will... not even in the slightest bit.
So the name UTG isn't allowed to sell good products and cheap products? The product is good, no one has given one reason the specific handguard is not good, I didn't buy it because it was cheap, it was because I liked the quality and design of the specific rail I chose, and I chose it over other rails purposefully.
As far as the lowers go, all it seems anyone has to offer is speculation that it cant last as long as an aluminum lower. Typically polymer frames on handguns are more durable than aluminum frames on handguns. Glocks proved polymer could perform right there with even steel. These lower have been tested, it didn't just pop up. It is a trusted lower by plenty of people already. I don't feel like there is any inherent reason why my lower or hand guard should fail, although I do feel like the poly lower offers some advantages in situation the standard lower might have shortcomings. Doesn't the Scar use a poly lower?
Actually your rail quality matches that of your lower receiver so rock on and put some rounds down the pipe. Report back after a couple cases of ammo on how the lower holds up in stress areas, how the front sight holds zero with the rail, etc. Do a review on your build.
Will do, definitely, I should be hitting the range pretty soon. Hopefully in a few months, carbine course.
Will do, definitely, I should be hitting the range pretty soon. Hopefully in a few months, carbine course.
Good, it will be interesting to hear the results as you run it.
Don't take this the wrong way as no disrespect is intended but...are you concerned at all you just might look like a dick with the set up you are running at a carbine class? You might attract the wrong kind of attention depending how experienced the class is? Then again you could be a seasoned pro for all I know...lol
Are the courses not meant for me to pay my money to train with my rifle? I can't see how me running something different could offend anyone, or are you saying I might find myself in an embarrassing situation? I don't think so, it costs money, if I pay money to fail then I guess I do.
Yeah, I did mean embarrassing.
I'm no season pro, but I cant see any reason why I should be embarrassed to test my build just because no one else has already tested it. I want to run it through its paces, as well as me with it. Isn't that how someone becomes a seasoned pro? Maybe my rifle wont seem "cool" but, if it holds up (as I think it should) then all the better. This is the joy of the ar15 is it not? put together your own personalized frankin gun and put it through it's paces. During T&E I have other means by which to defend myself. If and win however I proved this gun, I think it will be my favorite body guard.
Are the courses not meant for me to pay my money to train with my rifle? I can't see how me running something different could offend anyone, or are you saying I might find myself in an embarrassing situation? I don't think so, it costs money, if I pay money to fail then I guess I do.
I think you should keep your chin up, take a class or two, and report back here. You will learn a lot about you and your rifle, what works/what doesn't, and that will be knowledge gained no matter what the outcome.
So the name UTG isn't allowed to sell good products and cheap products? The product is good, no one has given one reason the specific handguard is not good, I didn't buy it because it was cheap, it was because I liked the quality and design of the specific rail I chose, and I chose it over other rails purposefully.
As far as the lowers go, all it seems anyone has to offer is speculation that it cant last as long as an aluminum lower. Typically polymer frames on handguns are more durable than aluminum frames on handguns. Glocks proved polymer could perform right there with even steel. These lower have been tested, it didn't just pop up. It is a trusted lower by plenty of people already. I don't feel like there is any inherent reason why my lower or hand guard should fail, although I do feel like the poly lower offers some advantages in situation the standard lower might have shortcomings. Doesn't the Scar use a poly lower?
I guess it's the same as DPMS supports believing their guns are perfect. No real point in trying to convince you otherwise.
As per hangun lowers, these are not handguns. The Scar lower also has nothing to do with AR's. The Cav lower is not a Scar lower, nor is it a handgun lower. Lowers are not the same. Companies who make polymer lowers also don't make them the same, using the same stuff.
But anyways, enjoy the gun, that is all that matters.
@ tehpwnag3, I intend to do exactly that :)
@ discreet, I understand were you are coming from, I have handled dpms, and delton, I dont think my rifle is in that bunch, everything I used was of tested and know quality except the handguard, but as new as it is it has been well received, and I have a hard time seeing how it could just explode. My rifle wasn't even in that price range to be honest.
I understand not all lowers are the same, but it begs to reason that the materials strength is there. I called GWACS today, and it sounds like the rifles have continued to be tested, and continued to prove their abilities without fail. To me, it seemed to be an extremely utilitarian, and functional lower.
I'm interested in seeing an accuracy report as I'm considering an ARP barrel.
I'm interested in seeing an accuracy report as I'm considering an ARP barrel.
All I had for aiming the rifle was magpul mbus that I swapped the front sight post for a hi vis which is pretty wide, but I had no trouble hitting a ten inch plate every single time in relative rapid succession. I got clover leaf groups at 25 yards, fifty yards well under and inch, 100 is when it started getting difficult just because of my sight. I can imagine with an optic or even a finer fsp you would be very pleased with accuracy. The barrel is top notch.
Moonlight Again
06-01-14, 11:49
Kaz:
You are a heretic, you are going straight to hell, you will not pass go, and you will not collect $200.
Just kidding.
You sure seem to have thought about what you wanted, and reasoned it out, and put together a rifle that fits your needs and wants. I say, good for you. I'll admit that I share a lot of the prejudices about UTG, but I have heard that the Pro line is a considerable step up. That's just RUMINT----I haven't got any experience. (Then again, there's a metric shit-ton of companies I don't have any experience with.) Shoot the snot out of it, and keep us updated. A carbine course should shake it down nicely.
(Do you have a back-up carbine to take with you to the course? I'm not asking because of the parts you used, but I've always heard that it's a really, really good idea to take a spare along in case Murph decides to screw with your primary.)
If you were getting ready to start serving high risk warrants in Kandahar with this build, I'd say you were high . . . but that's not the impression I get of your intended end use. (Wow, I said "intended end use.")
Oh, and don't mind taking shit from the guys here. Their minds can be changed, eventually----I almost swallowed my tongue when I saw MarkM had picked up a Keymod handguard.
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