View Full Version : Staked Carrier Question...
...sorry guys, I was reading a thread and it mentioned staked carriers - mine certainly seems staked, do you think so?
http://home.centurytel.net/betamo/AR15_STAKED.jpg
Sorry for the bad pic, the sides are nicely dimpled in evenly on both sides.
Oh, and why is it important? - I'm a newbie to such details.
I am a newbie too.
What is "staking" and why is it important?
Please show pics of "staked" vs. "not staked" if possible?
I have a S&W M&P 15 does anyone know if it is "staked"
...sorry guys, I was reading a thread and it mentioned staked carriers - mine certainly seems staked, do you think so?
http://home.centurytel.net/betamo/AR15_STAKED.jpg
Sorry for the bad pic, the sides are nicely dimpled in evenly on both sides.
Oh, and why is it important? - I'm a newbie to such details.
I'd need to see a closer pic, but on first inspection of the pic you posted I'm not so sure yours is done properly.
It's important because it is the only thing (locktite doesn't really work) that keeps the screws from backing out and locking up your rifle.
FWIW the castle nut on the receiver extension should be staked as well, but almost nobody does this anymore.
Look here (https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=651) for pics of how both should look.
Notice how your pic and the pic in the link of the carrier key staking don't match. Yours appears to be too shallow. It's not dimples on the key that are important, it's important that the screws are slightly dimpled to hold them in place
While yours has been staked, it's hard to tell how well, from the pic it looks like it could use a little more but as long as the metal from the key is over (read touching) the screws it should be fine.
Staking keeps things from coming loose, if your gas key screws come loose and do not seal off, your semi auto becomes a single shot.
Wayne Dobbs
09-13-06, 09:25
That staking job doesn't look good to go at all. There should be a very noticeable impingement of carrier key metal over the periphry of the fastener heads.
In addition, if the staking job is that "light" you don't know if the screws are properly degreased and locktited into the carrier body.
If the gun is a service rifle, it definitely needs to be redone.
Ned Christiansen
09-13-06, 10:10
BetaMO, as the guys mentioned, staking is just the moving of a little metal over the edge of the tops of the screw heads to help keep them from coming loose / out. if the carrier key screws come loose, the seal between it and the carrier is lost and gas needed to function the gun blows uselessly (and harmlessy) into the upper receiver. At that point you join the legion of guys whose guns are short-stroking!
Even screws that are staked can come loose. I've seen a carrier key that looked to be fairly well staked allow the screws to come loose. Because of the stakes, the screws could not actually come free from the carrier key, they just lifted it away from the carrier as they came loose.
To counter this I like to stake the screws too. Once all is down tight and the key is staked, I stake each screw twice, just on the clockwise side of the key stake. this way there is outwardly displaced screw metal that would stop on the inwardly displaced key metal, should the screw even think about turning.
Thanks for the replies!
Mine is DEFINITELY NOT staked like the Colt pictures. Now I know to keep my eye on those screws.
I wish I had found this site before I bought my upper...but it's a range gun not a service rifle, so I guess it will do for now.
Thanks for the replies!
Mine is DEFINITELY NOT staked like the Colt pictures. Now I know to keep my eye on those screws.
I wish I had found this site before I bought my upper...but it's a range gun not a service rifle, so I guess it will do for now.
I would still run it until it breaks, and when it does just pick up a CMT.
Why wait for it to break and ruin a perfectly good day of shooting sometime in the future? It's not that hard to fix this yourself...
Wayne Dobbs
09-13-06, 12:42
So you don't have to put up with that crap of your rifle not running, why don't you send your bolt carrier to Grant or ADCO or one of the others and get it taken care of? Won't cost much and you won't have to be worried about it...
...sorry guys, I was reading a thread and it mentioned staked carriers - mine certainly seems staked, do you think so?
http://home.centurytel.net/betamo/AR15_STAKED.jpg
Sorry for the bad pic, the sides are nicely dimpled in evenly on both sides.
Oh, and why is it important? - I'm a newbie to such details.
Looks like most Ive seen lately. Bushmaster,RRA,etc
You should see my CMT ? could have been done alot Better !!
but it does run fine
I like my LMT over my CMT
Stake it like you stole it, or something like that. :D
As others have already stated, you want direct contact, and there shouldn't be any question that there is material pressing against the carrier key screws.
Below is an example of one of my Colt M16 carriers.
http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/2280/p21000048001zn.jpg
Wayne Dobbs
09-15-06, 11:36
That one is very obviously good to go.
Which begs the question: Why in the world don't the rest of them do a decent job of this? As a casual observer can tell, it's not rocket science to do a staking job well....
To counter this I like to stake the screws too. Once all is down tight and the key is staked, I stake each screw twice, just on the clockwise side of the key stake. this way there is outwardly displaced screw metal that would stop on the inwardly displaced key metal, should the screw even think about turning.
Ned - thanks very much for that tip.
Factory stake jobs:
Colt:
http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j18/Skintop911/AR6520s/IMG_1344.jpg
Bushmaster:
http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2004-11/883273/Bushmaster.JPG
Armalite:
http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2004-11/883273/Armalite.jpg
FWIW, this is from a CMT MP BCG set that my Noveske Afghan came with...John he says he uses CMT BCG's, and I have 2 CMT BCGs that i've bought separately, and they're nowhere as well staked as this, so I believe John did the stakeing himself.
http://members.cox.net/vhresko/stake.jpg
Robb Jensen
09-19-06, 18:31
Here's one of my RRA carriers that I restaked with the Ned Christiansen MOACKS staking tool.
http://www.hunt101.com/img/435439.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v494/harv24/IMG_1114.jpg
And heres my LMT BCG after getting staked by Neds tool.....
Who is Ned? Where can I find out more about his staking tool? Where could I order one?
Ned Christiansen is the author of the number six post in this thread, a world class gunsmith and the owner of Michiguns, which sells the MOACKS tool that you want. The Mother Of All Carrier Key Stakers, or some such thing.
Pat_Rogers
09-20-06, 06:21
There is a story on the MOACKS in this months SWAT magazine.
This is a terrific piece of gear.
Ned Christiansen
09-21-06, 08:07
Glad you guys are liking the MOACKS. FYI, it gets a little better from time to time based on feedback and experience. I have improved the teeth on the carbon-cutter teeth of the bolt tail scraper, they dig in and under the buiildup better now. I moved the storage pocket for the carrier reamer to the other side so that access to the bolt tail scraper is not impeded by the reamer when it's positioned for use (actually this change was some time ago and most of yours will be config'd this way).
My away-from-home toolbox has gotten so heavy I made my own MOACKS, which I refer to the Mother of the Mother Of All Carrier Key Stakers, or MOMOACKS for short, into a light weight unit. So now it's MOMOACKSLW.
I have a pantograph engraving machine that I would like to get up and running in the next year so that I can offer the service of properly engraving a guy's name into the tool. I have been stamping the names in and that does not always come out great-looking (Hey Pat, if I'da known that one of yours would show up in SWAT I'da tried to get "E", "A", and "G" all in the same line:D ).
There is a story on the MOACKS in this months SWAT magazine.
This is a terrific piece of gear.
Very good article Pat.
C4
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