cundiff5535
03-17-14, 16:56
Hey guys I was looking for some thoughts on a recent buy... Can anyone give me an idea of what a custom "Smython" is worth? This conversion was done by Bob Cogan. He also refinished it in his brushed stainless chrome.
I have seen them go on the low end for $900 and up to $2500... thats a pretty LARGE price range and since they rarely come up, its very hard to determine what something like this maybe worth. (Ill keep what I paid to myself).
In the days leading up to my buy, I read a ton about them, who the top smiths were that would attempt the conversions, and why they were made. I also learned a lot about why they are not around these days... Here is the result of my findings and a lot of info for anyone who is half curious. (Please feel free to correct me or add to this if you feel there is relevant information missing from my post)
The Colt/Smith Revolver: Smython/Smolt
The Smythong/Solt was made by taking a Colt Python barrel and putting it on a S&W Frame.... used typically for PPC or Bullseye competition. When you consider that the barrel threads on the 2 companies revolver were completely different it would take a machining genius or extremely qualified smith to complete this conversion/make the switch the right way.
With these two pieces one or the other has a barrel thread pitch that is right hand and the other is left hand. In other words the threads have to be turned off the barrel and completely rethreaded to match the one in the frame. Very few gunsmiths would attempt such a conversion (or should I say, do them correctly). Sadowski, 300 Custom, and Cogan have made some real showpieces over the years and were thought of as tops on the list of folks doing that kind of work.
The Smolts/Smythons do pre-date the 1970's by a long shot. They were first made for NRA Conventional Bullseye when revolvers were the centerfire firearm of choice. Their existence came about because the S&W action was easier to modify (and maintain) and the Colt barrel was consistently more accurate with the standard 148 gn. wadcutter bullet. IIRC, the rate of twist and the direction of twist made the Colt barrel much more desirable. At this time the Colt barrels were not from the Python but heavy round barrels.The Colt action was more complex (hand fit) and there were few pistol smiths that could handle the Colt action. The Colt action was not known for it's longevity under constant competition useage either.
The Smolt pistol was used by Harry Reeves of the Detroit Police Department to win several National Championships. He won a total of six National Championships from 1946 to 1954. He was the first person to break the score of 2600 out of a possible 2700. IIRC he was the first person to break 2650 also. At that time these feats were legendary.
Another thing that was done (on the Smolts) was the cylinder of the S&W was shortened so that a flush wadcutter round would fit the cylinder but not a conventional round with a protruding bullet like a RN. The Colt barrel was set back to the shortened S&W cylinder. The spur of the S&W hammer was cut off and welded on the left side of the hammer at an angle. Since the pistol was fired single action only the shooter could easily reach the modified spur and cock the hammer without a change in grip. These hammers were known as cock-eyed hammers (which mine doesnt have).
S&W also made a single action only K-38 (Model 14) aimed at the NRA Conventional Bullseye crowd.
The PPC guys had kept the Smolt alive as the Smolt (revolver) had nearly disappeared in Bullseye by 1975 or so.
This craze resulted in S&W making the L-frame as a direct result of this combo....h
I would love to hear feedback on this buy etc...
http://i1078.photobucket.com/albums/w481/cundiff5535/IMG_1846_zpsa0b7a210.jpg (http://s1078.photobucket.com/user/cundiff5535/media/IMG_1846_zpsa0b7a210.jpg.html)
http://i1078.photobucket.com/albums/w481/cundiff5535/IMG_1847_zps8ef43cde.jpg (http://s1078.photobucket.com/user/cundiff5535/media/IMG_1847_zps8ef43cde.jpg.html)
http://i1078.photobucket.com/albums/w481/cundiff5535/IMG_1848_zpsb8bc3ce1.jpg (http://s1078.photobucket.com/user/cundiff5535/media/IMG_1848_zpsb8bc3ce1.jpg.html)
http://i1078.photobucket.com/albums/w481/cundiff5535/IMG_1849_zpsf54a1b6b.jpg (http://s1078.photobucket.com/user/cundiff5535/media/IMG_1849_zpsf54a1b6b.jpg.html)
http://i1078.photobucket.com/albums/w481/cundiff5535/IMG_1850_zps0c75ed74.jpg (http://s1078.photobucket.com/user/cundiff5535/media/IMG_1850_zps0c75ed74.jpg.html)
http://i1078.photobucket.com/albums/w481/cundiff5535/IMG_1851_zps1520ae7f.jpg (http://s1078.photobucket.com/user/cundiff5535/media/IMG_1851_zps1520ae7f.jpg.html)
http://i1078.photobucket.com/albums/w481/cundiff5535/IMG_1852_zps376ae507.jpg (http://s1078.photobucket.com/user/cundiff5535/media/IMG_1852_zps376ae507.jpg.html)
http://i1078.photobucket.com/albums/w481/cundiff5535/IMG_1853_zpsee131df0.jpg (http://s1078.photobucket.com/user/cundiff5535/media/IMG_1853_zpsee131df0.jpg.html)
http://i1078.photobucket.com/albums/w481/cundiff5535/IMG_1854_zpsa4164f5f.jpg (http://s1078.photobucket.com/user/cundiff5535/media/IMG_1854_zpsa4164f5f.jpg.html)
http://i1078.photobucket.com/albums/w481/cundiff5535/IMG_1855_zps5149f956.jpg (http://s1078.photobucket.com/user/cundiff5535/media/IMG_1855_zps5149f956.jpg.html)
http://i1078.photobucket.com/albums/w481/cundiff5535/IMG_1856_zps2d771c90.jpg (http://s1078.photobucket.com/user/cundiff5535/media/IMG_1856_zps2d771c90.jpg.html)
http://i1078.photobucket.com/albums/w481/cundiff5535/IMG_1857_zpsc2f7775a.jpg (http://s1078.photobucket.com/user/cundiff5535/media/IMG_1857_zpsc2f7775a.jpg.html)
I have to say, I am not a revolver shooter but, the revolver shot very nicely. I typically shoot a Baer 1911, CZ Shadow, or S&W 52-2 along with a slew of others. Here is my best freehand DA (I do not shoot SA) 6 shot group at 15 yards. I was shooting hand load wadcutters and was very happy at how the firearm performed!
http://i1078.photobucket.com/albums/w481/cundiff5535/IMG_1865_zps23e472ea.jpg (http://s1078.photobucket.com/user/cundiff5535/media/IMG_1865_zps23e472ea.jpg.html)
I have seen them go on the low end for $900 and up to $2500... thats a pretty LARGE price range and since they rarely come up, its very hard to determine what something like this maybe worth. (Ill keep what I paid to myself).
In the days leading up to my buy, I read a ton about them, who the top smiths were that would attempt the conversions, and why they were made. I also learned a lot about why they are not around these days... Here is the result of my findings and a lot of info for anyone who is half curious. (Please feel free to correct me or add to this if you feel there is relevant information missing from my post)
The Colt/Smith Revolver: Smython/Smolt
The Smythong/Solt was made by taking a Colt Python barrel and putting it on a S&W Frame.... used typically for PPC or Bullseye competition. When you consider that the barrel threads on the 2 companies revolver were completely different it would take a machining genius or extremely qualified smith to complete this conversion/make the switch the right way.
With these two pieces one or the other has a barrel thread pitch that is right hand and the other is left hand. In other words the threads have to be turned off the barrel and completely rethreaded to match the one in the frame. Very few gunsmiths would attempt such a conversion (or should I say, do them correctly). Sadowski, 300 Custom, and Cogan have made some real showpieces over the years and were thought of as tops on the list of folks doing that kind of work.
The Smolts/Smythons do pre-date the 1970's by a long shot. They were first made for NRA Conventional Bullseye when revolvers were the centerfire firearm of choice. Their existence came about because the S&W action was easier to modify (and maintain) and the Colt barrel was consistently more accurate with the standard 148 gn. wadcutter bullet. IIRC, the rate of twist and the direction of twist made the Colt barrel much more desirable. At this time the Colt barrels were not from the Python but heavy round barrels.The Colt action was more complex (hand fit) and there were few pistol smiths that could handle the Colt action. The Colt action was not known for it's longevity under constant competition useage either.
The Smolt pistol was used by Harry Reeves of the Detroit Police Department to win several National Championships. He won a total of six National Championships from 1946 to 1954. He was the first person to break the score of 2600 out of a possible 2700. IIRC he was the first person to break 2650 also. At that time these feats were legendary.
Another thing that was done (on the Smolts) was the cylinder of the S&W was shortened so that a flush wadcutter round would fit the cylinder but not a conventional round with a protruding bullet like a RN. The Colt barrel was set back to the shortened S&W cylinder. The spur of the S&W hammer was cut off and welded on the left side of the hammer at an angle. Since the pistol was fired single action only the shooter could easily reach the modified spur and cock the hammer without a change in grip. These hammers were known as cock-eyed hammers (which mine doesnt have).
S&W also made a single action only K-38 (Model 14) aimed at the NRA Conventional Bullseye crowd.
The PPC guys had kept the Smolt alive as the Smolt (revolver) had nearly disappeared in Bullseye by 1975 or so.
This craze resulted in S&W making the L-frame as a direct result of this combo....h
I would love to hear feedback on this buy etc...
http://i1078.photobucket.com/albums/w481/cundiff5535/IMG_1846_zpsa0b7a210.jpg (http://s1078.photobucket.com/user/cundiff5535/media/IMG_1846_zpsa0b7a210.jpg.html)
http://i1078.photobucket.com/albums/w481/cundiff5535/IMG_1847_zps8ef43cde.jpg (http://s1078.photobucket.com/user/cundiff5535/media/IMG_1847_zps8ef43cde.jpg.html)
http://i1078.photobucket.com/albums/w481/cundiff5535/IMG_1848_zpsb8bc3ce1.jpg (http://s1078.photobucket.com/user/cundiff5535/media/IMG_1848_zpsb8bc3ce1.jpg.html)
http://i1078.photobucket.com/albums/w481/cundiff5535/IMG_1849_zpsf54a1b6b.jpg (http://s1078.photobucket.com/user/cundiff5535/media/IMG_1849_zpsf54a1b6b.jpg.html)
http://i1078.photobucket.com/albums/w481/cundiff5535/IMG_1850_zps0c75ed74.jpg (http://s1078.photobucket.com/user/cundiff5535/media/IMG_1850_zps0c75ed74.jpg.html)
http://i1078.photobucket.com/albums/w481/cundiff5535/IMG_1851_zps1520ae7f.jpg (http://s1078.photobucket.com/user/cundiff5535/media/IMG_1851_zps1520ae7f.jpg.html)
http://i1078.photobucket.com/albums/w481/cundiff5535/IMG_1852_zps376ae507.jpg (http://s1078.photobucket.com/user/cundiff5535/media/IMG_1852_zps376ae507.jpg.html)
http://i1078.photobucket.com/albums/w481/cundiff5535/IMG_1853_zpsee131df0.jpg (http://s1078.photobucket.com/user/cundiff5535/media/IMG_1853_zpsee131df0.jpg.html)
http://i1078.photobucket.com/albums/w481/cundiff5535/IMG_1854_zpsa4164f5f.jpg (http://s1078.photobucket.com/user/cundiff5535/media/IMG_1854_zpsa4164f5f.jpg.html)
http://i1078.photobucket.com/albums/w481/cundiff5535/IMG_1855_zps5149f956.jpg (http://s1078.photobucket.com/user/cundiff5535/media/IMG_1855_zps5149f956.jpg.html)
http://i1078.photobucket.com/albums/w481/cundiff5535/IMG_1856_zps2d771c90.jpg (http://s1078.photobucket.com/user/cundiff5535/media/IMG_1856_zps2d771c90.jpg.html)
http://i1078.photobucket.com/albums/w481/cundiff5535/IMG_1857_zpsc2f7775a.jpg (http://s1078.photobucket.com/user/cundiff5535/media/IMG_1857_zpsc2f7775a.jpg.html)
I have to say, I am not a revolver shooter but, the revolver shot very nicely. I typically shoot a Baer 1911, CZ Shadow, or S&W 52-2 along with a slew of others. Here is my best freehand DA (I do not shoot SA) 6 shot group at 15 yards. I was shooting hand load wadcutters and was very happy at how the firearm performed!
http://i1078.photobucket.com/albums/w481/cundiff5535/IMG_1865_zps23e472ea.jpg (http://s1078.photobucket.com/user/cundiff5535/media/IMG_1865_zps23e472ea.jpg.html)